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fxramper
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AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:12 am

Pilots at American Airlines won't wear their hats this week. The Pacific Business News (PBN) of Hawaii writes the move is meant to show displeasure with "management for talking about sharing profits while compensating themselves far more than rank-and-file employees.

AA losses $1.21 b. in 2004 and 2005, and make $231 m. in 2006, and give executive bonuses? Pilots haven't had a raise since the 2003 pay cuts to avoid bankruptcy.

The executive bonuses are still a huge bone of contention at AA. They need to put an end to this and give back the remaining 9% salary to pilots (flight crew included). Failure to do so could sabotage another coveted long-haul route.


article
 
CV580Freak
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Failure to do so could sabotage another coveted long-haul route.

Not too sure what this means ???
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
micstatic
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:26 am

those hats are so lame in the first place. Good to see they won't have to look like that anymore.
 
OB1504
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 1):
Not too sure what this means ???

I'm not too well-versed on this, but I think it has to do with American's application for a few Chinese route authorities a little while ago. The pilots said they would refuse to fly the route if American was given the go-ahead to start service, and sure enough, the authorities went to other carriers.
 
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falstaff
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 2):
those hats are so lame in the first place. Good to see they won't have to look like that anymore.

Regardless of what some pilots think of the hat, it is part of a uniform. It helps distinguish a pilot from other airline employees and other people walking around the airfield. I wear a mechanics uniform around the shop and people know I am a mechanic by looking at me. Lots of jobs require a uniform.

I like the not wearing a hat protest. It is simple, but not too over the top.

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
AA losses $1.21 b. in 2004 and 2005, and make $231 m. in 2006, and give executive bonuses? Pilots haven't had a raise since the 2003 pay cuts to avoid bankruptcy

Everyone who works at AA deserves a bonus. If they made money it was a team effort. I don't mind execs earning a bonus, just as long as everyone gets their share.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
PanAm747
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:42 am

Quote:
Failure to do so could sabotage another coveted long-haul route.

Not too sure what this means ???

https://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3304299

AA pilots refused to accept the terms from management over a proposed DFW-PEK route. Because of the "intenal strife", AA was not as highly considered as other airlines competing for that round of China flights.

I'll withhold my opinions of the insanity surrounding management compensation and the labor problems it always leads to.  flamed 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
AA losses $1.21 b. in 2004 and 2005, and make $231 m. in 2006, and give executive bonuses? Pilots haven't had a raise since the 2003 pay cuts to avoid bankruptcy.

The executive bonuses are still a huge bone of contention at AA. They need to put an end to this and give back the remaining 9% salary to pilots (flight crew included). Failure to do so could sabotage another coveted long-haul route.

Executive bonuses, especially CEO compensation have become a political focal point in the U.S. and could be an election year partisan issue. I think the management at AA is insane to accept in bonuses for such a measly profit for 2006. That said however AA can't hold a candle to what UA is giving their top level executives.
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micstatic
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:45 am

[quote=Falstaff,reply=4]Regardless of what some pilots think of the hat, it is part of a uniform. It helps distinguish a pilot from other airline employees and other people walking around the airfield. I wear a mechanics uniform around the shop and people know I am a mechanic by looking at me. Lots of jobs require a uniform.

One could argue the shirts with the lapels do that just fine.
 
SansVGs
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 4):

Regardless of what some pilots think of the hat, it is part of a uniform. It helps distinguish a pilot from other airline employees and other people walking around the airfield.

This depends on the airline. Many airlines do not have hats as a part of their uniform. Wearing one would be a violation of their FOM.
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
roseflyer
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:29 am

I support them. I'm not usually one to get on the case of management for taking bonuses, but those guys took extreme paycuts four years ago and have not been rewarded back. I think management should work to reward employees otherwise they will just be hated more, which leads to problems such as the failure of the DFW-China route and worse, puts them close to threatening strike. Pilots don't even have to strike to hurt the bottom line. If they warn the public that they may strike, bookings fall since people perceive the airline as a risky option since people are afraid of what happened when NW's pilots actually went on strike a number of years ago.
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CMHSRQ
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:45 am

There was an advertisement in yesterday's USA Today with AA pilots with their hats off. States something like we take our hates off to our fellow employees of AA who have sacrificed so much over the past 5 years. They mentioned huge pay cuts, job loses etc etc etc. The last line said something like we will take our hats off to the executives when they restore our wages and benefit's instead of giving themselves bonuses.

The wording I wrote isn't correct, but the reason is they are protesting executive pay and benefits at AA.
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MaverickM11
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
I think the management at AA is insane to accept in bonuses for such a measly profit for 2006

Even if they didn't accept those bonuses, the apaholes would still be demanding pay raises after that measly profit because AA would "finally be recovering" after one quarter Yeah sure. We've seen this many times before.
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N1120A
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 3):
The pilots said they would refuse to fly the route if American was given the go-ahead to start service, and sure enough, the authorities went to other carriers.

They didn't refuse, they worked to rule.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
contrails
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:07 am

I have two thoughts: First, I'd just as soon all the airlines ditch the hats. They're a throwback to another era when how you looked was as important as how well you flew.

Second, they have a legitimate grievance, imo, with AA. Removing their hats is all they can think of?
Flying Colors Forever!
 
PanAm747
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:18 am

Quote:
Second, they have a legitimate grievance, imo, with AA. Removing their hats is all they can think of?

I think removing their hats is a sign that there is official displeasure BUT that they are not allowing it to interfere with their work. It is a way of saying "we're NOT happy...BUT we are continuing to do our job".

It's also a way of saying, "we will have our voices and concerns heard".
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MaverickM11
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Contrails (Reply 13):
Removing their hats is all they can think of?

Well that and dragging their company through the mud on a weekly basis, but that's par for the course for the APA.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:33 am

As much as I hate the typical Union vs Management fighting, I can't say that I blame AA's pilots one bit.

Wouldn't wearing their wings upside down be more symbolic? Most travellers would notice the lack of a hat, I would think.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
AA losses $1.21 b. in 2004 and 2005, and make $231 m. in 2006, and give executive bonuses?

The bonus calculation is based on performance of AMR stock vs. the competition, not on profits. AA's stock skyrocketed compared to everyone else...especially as the other carriers went bankrupt. I don't agree with this method of determining bonuses, but that was the arrangement and the unions were aware of it before it paid off.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
I think the management at AA is insane to accept in bonuses for such a measly profit for 2006.

As above, the bonus is not tied to the profit.

Bonuses make up a big chunk of the total compensation for salaried employees. During the years that there were no bonus pay-outs management employees were making less than their peers in comparable positions. Were AA pilots making less than their peers at the time? Seems to me that all their peers were working for bankrupt airlines.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
those guys took extreme paycuts four years ago and have not been rewarded back.

I think keeping their jobs with pensions and other benefits intact was the reward. The pilots agreed to those pay cuts for a reason. yes 

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 4):
Everyone who works at AA deserves a bonus. If they made money it was a team effort. I don't mind execs earning a bonus, just as long as everyone gets their share.

If the pilots wanted the same sort of deal on pay as management, I'd bet that AA would be happy to discuss it. AA would love a deal where they could pay less during the slow years, more during the good times....and it would be a cold day in hell when the APA would agree to a deal like that.
They protest management employees having that arrangement when it pays off, but I don't recall any sympathy marches in the years that it did not. scratchchin 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
AIR757200
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:37 am

I thought our union work-groups are getting small raises each year? The 2007 Pay Plan is out and of course, the work-groups whom are unionized state: to refer to the collective bargaining agreement.

Agents/Rep/Planners are getting 1.5% increase, and those who are not at maximum pay (less than 11 years), will advance $.50/per hour in addition to the 1.5% increase.

Last year, pay was advanced $0.40 after the 1.5% increase. Full time agents at maximum pay (11+ years) will have a base salary of around $45,000/year.
 
nwa757boy
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:38 am

Well, at least AA will save some costs on fuel for not having the extra weight of the hats? haha I don't know if its a big weight issue, but oh well.

I agree with the pilots on this though.
 
incitatus
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:42 am

Isn't the salary of senior pilots at American still close to $200,000 a year? That is a lot more than many executives make in airlines and many other industries - with fat bonuses or without. I can see why employees making $30k or $40k a year would be irritated with bonuses paid to executives. But pilots protesting? When are the flight attendants going to protest pilot pay?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
N1120A
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 20):
When are the flight attendants going to protest pilot pay?

Perhaps when they start spending more than $100,000 on training privately or having to commit to military service to get their training, and perhaps when they are the ones safely operating a $40-$200 million piece of metal 7 miles above the earth at a speed not much under the speed of sound, all while responsible for the lives of 100-300 people.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 17):
The bonus calculation is based on performance of AMR stock vs. the competition, not on profits. AA's stock skyrocketed compared to everyone else...especially as the other carriers went bankrupt. I don't agree with this method of determining bonuses, but that was the arrangement and the unions were aware of it before it paid off.

...that's why I'm tired of these whino unions...it was already known how much they were going to get (i.e.-based on AMR's stock performance)...its like a sports player whining and not playing (sitting out for a new contract) after signing a contract....
"Up the Irons!"
 
roseflyer
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 17):
I think keeping their jobs with pensions and other benefits intact was the reward. The pilots agreed to those pay cuts for a reason.

That's true, however costs of living go up every year and wages should too. If wages do not go up to at least reflect inflation, then AA is effectively paying its employees even less than it was 4 years ago.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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fxramper
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:47 am

To correct my original post, the pilots haven't got back 11% of their previous salaries of 2003.

I got a phone call an hour ago that said their might be problems at AA tomorrow with handlers, CSA, and others not coming to work because of the problems with executive compensations.
 
pacifica
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:01 am

Ooops...at first I read this as "AA pilots to go HAIRLESS!" LOL

In all seriousness though, I think that after all the pay cuts that not just pilots but everyone at AA has had to endure over the past few years, they deserve to get some of it back now that AA has some profit to distribute. Maybe they can look at the WestJet profit sharing model that I hear has been very successful on this side of the border. Someone actually from WestJet might be able to elaborate a little?
 
AADC10
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:24 am

Maybe getting rid of the hats is an "enhancement" that will cut costs. It will reduce weight and allow AA to cut the uniform cleaning allowance. They should go for the ties and wing pins next and they can all be disposed of along with the pillows and blankets.
 
incitatus
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
Perhaps when they start spending more than $100,000 on training privately or having to commit to military service to get their training, and perhaps when they are the ones safely operating a $40-$200 million piece of metal 7 miles above the earth at a speed not much under the speed of sound, all while responsible for the lives of 100-300 people.

As you well know those are all irrelevant items in setting pay for a job. Pay is based on economics and not even a union can rig the job market in the long run.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
reality
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:56 am

The only thing worse than bonuses for management......are the overpaid pilots.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:03 am

hmmmm let's say 2000 for 2000 managers... ok, 40000000 bucks, divide by 13000 pilots and it's 307 dollars...I can't believe that they are that petty.. granted I'm pulling numbers out of the air, but why would they want to screw someone where the money could actually make a difference to pay for a couple extra Starbucks coffees... oooo that's right, they forgot the CSM's gave back too!!!!

[Edited 2007-04-18 04:04:27]
1.4mm and counting...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
Perhaps when they start spending more than $100,000 on training privately

Boo frickin' hoo...I spent more than that on a college degree...and I'm much more easily replaced than a pilot...where's my union?

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 29):
...I can't believe that they are that petty..

It's the APA--what do you think the P stands for??

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 27):
not even a union can rig the job market in the long run.

Amen.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
it was already known how much they were going to get

Sad but true.
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SkyexRamper
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:19 pm

The best way to show an in house type strike like this would be to wear the tie on the shoulder instead of just removing the hat.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
Grbld
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:36 pm

Come on guys, don't just throw a random salary figure in the air and everybody run with it. Pilots' max salary is 150K, not 200K, and the VAST majority of American pilots don't make that amount anyway.

They're not making this statement (hats off) just for themselves, but as a sign from the employee group. If you want to interpret this as "oooh they're just in it for themselves" then go for it, but short of not flying a plane, they can't do any other protest than something in their own power. If they let the planes sit on the tarmac, I'm sure there'd be pilot-bashers here that would complain about that.

Many times, the exact conditions of management bonuses are NOT known beforehand. Believe me, we've seen the same thing with KLM here a few years ago, before they hooked up with Air France. Company bleeding millions per week, yet top management getting hefty bonuses because their "targets were met". And those targets are defined by a board of commissioners (unions have no say in that), and they're not published.

So even if management has the right to a bonus, there's a responsibility that you have as a manager. Did you turn around a losing company? You deserve it. Is your company still doing poorly and you haven't made an impact? You don't deserve it. Especially after major paycuts from all employee groups.

And for those that like to go "them pilots, we flight attendants/mechanics/reps/etc": Don't you see you're doing exactly what management wants? Divide and conquer! It has nothing to do with the unions. If you as employees let yourselves be played out against eachother, you ALL LOSE. What's that saying again? United we stand.

Don't forget: The bonus-grabbing management folks are usually big job hoppers. If they don't like it anymore, they'll find some other big company what will throw big money at them. That's why most of them don't care about long term effects OR employees. It's the employees that make the company, so stick together!
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:59 pm

Surely the true heading should be "pilots to walk through terminals hatless"

Firstly I'm fairly sure that flying with a peaked cap on would interfere with their headsets; secondly who would feel comfortable wearing one for hours on end, and thirdly how would we (or AA's management know if they wearing them anyway ?
 
Caspian27
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 20):
Isn't the salary of senior pilots at American still close to $200,000 a year? That is a lot more than many executives make in airlines and many other industries - with fat bonuses or without. I can see why employees making $30k or $40k a year would be irritated with bonuses paid to executives. But pilots protesting? When are the flight attendants going to protest pilot pay?

Do executives or flight attendants literally have hundreds of lives in their hands for 8 hours a day? Most pilots don't come remotely close to making that much anyway.

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 7):
One could argue the shirts with the lapels do that just fine.

You'd be surprised how many people can't tell the difference between pilots and FA's. Alot of FA's have epaulets also.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
cptspeaking
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Boo frickin' hoo...I spent more than that on a college degree...and I'm much more easily replaced than a pilot...where's my union?

First, I'm not a fan of unions and bonuses, etc., so this isn't to defend anybody but my own kind  Smile. I've spent over 100k on school as well AND almost as much on ratings on top of that. Pilots have a whole lot more responsibility for the safety of the operation than other types of employees at an airline do. This isn't to say that the others aren't important, because pilots cannot do their job without the support of everybody else. However, pilots are much less replaceable than others. A pilot can get a job as a ramper, but definitely not the other way around. It is a very specialized profession and this is why they are paid so much more than other company employees.

I agree that the no-hat week is a pretty discreet way of voicing displeasure without causing much of a fuss. It is visible, but not so much that the average passenger would notice anything out of the ordinary, especially if all pilots don't wear a hat, because seriously, how many passengers know the AA dress code?
...and don't call me Shirley!!
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:47 pm

That'll show 'em (executive managment, that is), as they're sipping cocktails in their bonus acquired beach front condominiums in the US Virgin Islands.

 cloudnine 
 drunk 
Above and Beyond
 
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falstaff
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 16):
Wouldn't wearing their wings upside down be more symbolic? Most travellers would notice the lack of a hat, I would think.

I see airline pilots without hats all the time. If I were to see a pilot without a hat I probably wouldn't think anything about it, unless I had read this first.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
SPREE34
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Well that and dragging their company through the mud on a weekly basis, but that's par for the course for the APA.

They both made the mud hole. A lot of people forget that.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 17):
As above, the bonus is not tied to the profit.

That is the problem. Profit pays the bills and salaries, and would have been a true measurment of performance. Stock price is meaningless except for the day of purchase or sale of the said stock.

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 34):
Do executives or flight attendants literally have hundreds of lives in their hands for 8 hours a day?

I would argue that the FAs do. They just don't have to go into save mode unless something goes wrong.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
incitatus
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 34):
Do executives or flight attendants literally have hundreds of lives in their hands for 8 hours a day? Most pilots don't come remotely close to making that much anyway.

No, pilots do not have hundreds of lives in their hands for 8 hours a day. Pilots are part of a network of control, including air traffic control, weather, mechanics, and yes flight attendants, that have hundreds of lives in their hands. Control of aircraft is highly automated and subject to other input beyond the pilots'. It might have been true they were 100% in control in 1927, but not in 2007.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
That's true, however costs of living go up every year and wages should too.

Employees who organize as unions negotiate wages with the company. Cost of living adjustments are sometimes included in contracts, sometimes not. Either way, the company and the union are bound to the contract. There should be no whining about cost of living during the contract term...that consideration needs to be handled up front before signing.

Quoting Grbld (Reply 32):
They're not making this statement (hats off) just for themselves, but as a sign from the employee group

The managers are also an employee group, working for the company. I take exception to "management" being treated as if they were the company itself. They're employees too.

Quoting Grbld (Reply 32):
Don't forget: The bonus-grabbing management folks are usually big job hoppers. If they don't like it anymore, they'll find some other big company what will throw big money at them. That's why most of them don't care about long term effects OR employees. It's the employees that make the company, so stick together

"Bonus-grabbing" is not a fair statement. The bonus is part of executive compensation, and not getting a bonus is as much considered punishment for a bad year as receiving a bonus is considered a reward for a good year. You make the statement that managers are "big job hoppers" and miss the point that pay is what keeps them in place. People who have job mobility command higher compensation - that's how free enterprise works. If pilots or any other union group could get a better deal elsewhere, they would leave in droves. The airline would have to raise pay to retain them. That's not happening with the pilots, but it is happening with managers. Most pilots are intelligent people and have the option to get an MBA, join management and get in on the bonus structure. They choose not to, so what is the real ground for complaint?

If you or I are not happy with our current employment we have the option to seek a better deal. If we don't seek it, then our current situation must be acceptable. If we seek it and find no better deal, then our current situation must be fair enough. We all want more money, that's a given, but the market determines compensation. "Fairness" is not part of the equation. no 

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 38):
That is the problem. Profit pays the bills and salaries, and would have been a true measurment of performance. Stock price is meaningless except for the day of purchase or sale of the said stock

 checkmark Exactly so! Tying performance to short-term stock prices is a very poor strategy. This was a mistake on AA's part, and I suspect those who put the plan in place never expected that it would pay off to this degree.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
cobra27
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 2):
those hats are so lame in the first place. Good to see they won't have to look like that anymore.

Yes and quite possibly itchy to wear and maybe smelly after some time
 
Buddys747
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RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Well that and dragging their company through the mud on a weekly basis, but that's par for the course for the APA

Oh really ? Explain.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Even if they didn't accept those bonuses, the apaholes would still be demanding pay raises after that measly profit because AA would "finally be recovering" after one quarter . We've seen this many times before

Yeah, just like managment recieved bonuses even when the airlines were in trouble.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Boo frickin' hoo...I spent more than that on a college degree...and I'm much more easily replaced than a pilot...where's my union?

You complain about unions, then you complain about how tough you have it, then you say where's my union? Please.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
It's the APA--what do you think the P stands for??

Pilots. Next time you fly tell the pilot he is petty and let me know how you make out.
 
Buddys747
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Well that and dragging their company through the mud on a weekly basis, but that's par for the course for the APA

Oh really ? Explain.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Even if they didn't accept those bonuses, the apaholes would still be demanding pay raises after that measly profit because AA would "finally be recovering" after one quarter . We've seen this many times before

Yeah, just like managment recieved bonuses even when the airlines were in trouble.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Boo frickin' hoo...I spent more than that on a college degree...and I'm much more easily replaced than a pilot...where's my union?

You complain about unions, then you complain about how tough you have it, then you say where's my union? Please.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
It's the APA--what do you think the P stands for??

Pilots. Next time you fly tell the pilot he is petty and let me know how you make out.
 
Buddys747
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Well that and dragging their company through the mud on a weekly basis, but that's par for the course for the APA

Oh really ? Explain.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Even if they didn't accept those bonuses, the apaholes would still be demanding pay raises after that measly profit because AA would "finally be recovering" after one quarter . We've seen this many times before

Yeah, just like managment recieved bonuses even when the airlines were in trouble.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Boo frickin' hoo...I spent more than that on a college degree...and I'm much more easily replaced than a pilot...where's my union?

You complain about unions, then you complain about how tough you have it, then you say where's my union? Please.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
It's the APA--what do you think the P stands for??

Pilots. Next time you fly tell the pilot he is petty and let me know how you make out.
 
Buddys747
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Well that and dragging their company through the mud on a weekly basis, but that's par for the course for the APA

Oh really ? Explain.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Even if they didn't accept those bonuses, the apaholes would still be demanding pay raises after that measly profit because AA would "finally be recovering" after one quarter . We've seen this many times before

Yeah, just like managment recieved bonuses even when the airlines were in trouble.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Boo frickin' hoo...I spent more than that on a college degree...and I'm much more easily replaced than a pilot...where's my union?

You complain about unions, then you complain about how tough you have it, then you say where's my union? Please.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
It's the APA--what do you think the P stands for??

Pilots. Next time you fly tell the pilot he is petty and let me know how you make out.
 
Buddys747
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:03 am

Ok, not sure why it posted three times, sorry about that.
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 37):
Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 16):
Wouldn't wearing their wings upside down be more symbolic? Most travellers would notice the lack of a hat, I would think.

I see airline pilots without hats all the time. If I were to see a pilot without a hat I probably wouldn't think anything about it, unless I had read this first.

I just noticed a type-o in my post.  Embarrassment What I mean't to say was that "I think most travellers wouldn't notice."

@Falstaff: You and I are pretty much on the same page.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18715
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 42):
Oh really ? Explain.

When was the last time you saw management engage in this immature PR mudslinging that the APA does all the time?

Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 43):
Next time you fly tell the pilot he is petty and let me know how you make out.

I have no respect for the APA, period. If they want my opinion, I'll give it to them, and tell them my reasoning. If they want to take a huge pay cut and huge work-hour increase and switch jobs with me, be my guest .

[Edited 2007-04-19 04:17:12]
I don't take responsibility at all
 
tsaord
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:46 pm

RE: AA Pilots To Fly Hatless.

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:28 pm

Interesting. There was some sort of pretest at ORD on Tuesday. I came into work and saw a numerb of AA F/A protesting on about something. I never found out exactly what it was for.
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair

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