scotron11
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VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:04 pm

BBC News, in their report on VS ordering the 787, says VS plans to operate a new flight London-Hawaii next year.

Is this possible non-stop?? CircleMapper shows the non-stop distance as 7262m, so with their current fleet a stop would be neccessary. Unless they get the 345 or 772LR, how would they do it?
 
ikramerica
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:20 pm

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
Is this possible non-stop?? CircleMapper shows the non-stop distance as 7262m, so with their current fleet a stop would be neccessary. Unless they get the 345 or 772LR, how would they do it?

The route is 6300nm, well within the range of many current airliners. It's shorter than LAX-SYD, and due to the polar route, can be routed to avoid most wind penalties most of the time.

A 744 could do it. A 772 can do it. A 346 can do it. As can a 77W. And of course 77L and A345. But those are all big and heavy planes for a mostly leisure route of such length...

All 787s, A350s and the A380 will be able to do it.

The 788 can certainly do it, and probably quite economically because it's smaller, and can carry more cargo by volume after pax, which means pinapples and guavas and macademias and tropical flowers. They only have to worry about filling up about 75% of 220 seats to be profitable.

The reason it hasn't been done is Bermuda 2 (not due to the other "Brits don't want to go there" arguments you hear).

People don't realize this, but Bermuda 2 prevented the route to be flown unless another city-pair was given up as sacrifice. Not another VS city pair mind you, but another city-pair meaning NOBODY could fly it if HNL-LON was started in it's stead.

With B2 gone, anyone can fly the route. And since VS is a 2.5 class carrier (no F) they are more likely to make money on it than BA.

But unless VS is getting 788s in 2008, I don't see them starting this route then. Unless maybe they are planning to throw an A343 on the route?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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hawaiian717
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:29 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6588537.stm

I can't tell from reading it, if the London-Hawaii flight happens before the 787 is delivered or not.
 
MCIGuy
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
The 788 can certainly do it, and probably quite economically because it's smaller, and can carry more cargo by volume after pax, which means pinapples and guavas and macademias and tropical flowers. They only have to worry about filling up about 75% of 220 seats to be profitable.

And what about a 789? It could do it even better.  Smile
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scotron11
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 2):

I can't tell from reading it, if the London-Hawaii flight happens before the 787 is delivered or not.

The way I read it the 787s will be delivered in 2011, but they'll start the route next year.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):

The route is 6300nm, well within the range of many current airliners. It's shorter than LAX-SYD, and due to the polar route, can be routed to avoid most wind penalties most of the time.

My guess would be a 744 then. Good for them if they do this. I can just see the "hula girl" in VS colors!!

Cheers!
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:40 pm

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
Is this possible non-stop?? CircleMapper shows the non-stop distance as 7262m, so with their current fleet a stop would be neccessary. Unless they get the 345 or 772LR, how would they do it?



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
People don't realize this, but Bermuda 2 prevented the route to be flown unless another city-pair was given up as sacrifice. Not another VS city pair mind you, but another city-pair meaning NOBODY could fly it if HNL-LON was started in it's stead.






I read somewhere that Air New Zealand which isn't restricted by Bermuda II was interested in flying LHR-HNL-AKL for their evening flights from LHR. Such a routing would be almost 300 miles shorter than LHR-LAX-AKL.



 
easyas321
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
They only have to worry about filling up about 75% of 220 seats to be profitable.

You can't say that unless you know all the costs & all the fares/yield.
 
detroitflyer
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:56 pm

I think that this route would do horrible!!! Honestly, there are plently of other leisure destinations to go to that are way closer and cheaper

1. sharm el sheik, egypt
2. The whole of the southern meditteranean and north africa
3. Florida
4, Mexico and the carribbean

Flying to hawaii would cost a bomb and there are little to no buisness travellers on this route, which means even IF they do get enough leisure travellers, yields would be rock bottom.

There are plenty of very large american cities that dont have this route non stop (detroit, miami , cleveland) i highly doubt london could handle it.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 5):
I read somewhere that Air New Zealand which isn't restricted by Bermuda II was interested in flying LHR-HNL-AKL for their evening flights from LHR. Such a routing would be almost 300 miles shorter than LHR-LAX-AKL.

Thats only been mentioned on this board, it is possible that NZ could do this if/when they decide to add a third daily to LHR. It would be good in the sense that NZ's HNL flights are currently marginal and they could increase frequency on AKL-HNL to daily continuing to LHR freeing up space on flights via HKG and LAX to LHR.
 
SFORunner
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:27 pm

How about a VS hook-up with Virgin Blue / Pacific Blue, with the latter flying HNL - SYD/MEL/BNE?  stirthepot 
 
keno
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 7):
closer and cheaper
1. sharm el sheik, egypt
2. The whole of the southern meditteranean and north africa

VS don't really do short-haul, plus most of Mediterranean routes are charter operators territory.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:24 pm

So what is the demand in Britain for Hawaiian vacations?
 
[email protected]
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 11):
So what is the demand in Britain for Hawaiian vacations?

Currently Spain, Florida, Carribean, Dubai, Thailand and Egypt are the big tropical beach tourist destinations for British tourists. People do go to Hawaii, but not in their masses like they do for these destinations. But maybe VS plan to tap into a niche market of some sort.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
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mbm3
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 12):
People do go to Hawaii, but not in their masses like they do for these destinations. But maybe VS plan to tap into a niche market of some sort.

IMHO more Brits would go to Hawaii if it was easier to get there from London. A non-stop flight could make the islands a lot more popular destination. It really is an amazing and unique place to visit!
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mkirch72
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 13):
IMHO more Brits would go to Hawaii if it was easier to get there from London. A non-stop flight could make the islands a lot more popular destination. It really is an amazing and unique place to visit!

Agreed. I just returned from HNL on Sunday and was surprised to hear the amount of British accents around the pool, on the beaches, and in the shops. I have been going twice a year since 2001 and this is the first time I've noticed.

I think people will find that Hawai'i is not as popular with East Coast US residents as you think. Most of them don't want to deal with having to make such a long flight with connections. However, CO has a non-stop from EWR to HNL that is almost 11 hours and it's always booked.

In other words, if a non-stop can be offered from London, people will come. I'd be interested to see if the state of Hawai'i will be throwing some tourism dollars that way as well.
 
star_world
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 5):

FlyingClrs727 - can you please save these images in your post as pictures, put them in your profile and post them instead? Every time someone opens this thread it causes the gc.kls2.com website to have to redraw those pictures dynamically, which puts more load on their site and adds to bandwidth costs. As this is a free site I'd rather it stayed that way, as would everyone else I'm sure...
 
[email protected]
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 13):
IMHO more Brits would go to Hawaii if it was easier to get there from London. A non-stop flight could make the islands a lot more popular destination. It really is an amazing and unique place to visit!

True, but you have to take into consideration the cost of a holiday to Hawaii. Hawaii is not cheap compared to Florida, for a start the air fares are likely to be in the region of £500-£600 for economy, throw in food and hotel costs and we're looking at thousands of pounds. No problem if you've got cash to burn, but you're average Brit is financially-concious as anyone else. Ultimately, Florida will remain the king as far as British tourists are concerned but who knows, a non-stop London-Hawaii flight might just open up the tourist market there?.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
richierich
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 11):
So what is the demand in Britain for Hawaiian vacations?



Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 13):
IMHO more Brits would go to Hawaii if it was easier to get there from London. A non-stop flight could make the islands a lot more popular destination. It really is an amazing and unique place to visit!



Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 14):
Agreed. I just returned from HNL on Sunday and was surprised to hear the amount of British accents around the pool, on the beaches, and in the shops. I have been going twice a year since 2001 and this is the first time I've noticed.

The British are very good travellers and are all about exotic locations. Hawaii might appeal to those that like exotic but without the fear of bad food or dangerous people. Then again, what could be scarier than a bunch of Americans with guns?

Seriously, I think a nonstop has some viability to it, especially if Brits are already going there via the current schedules. I, for one, hope it happens. I'm sure the Hawaii visitor board hopes so too!
None shall pass!!!!
 
Max Q
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:27 am

Americans with guns are a scary thing.

And most of us know it but them.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 2):
can't tell from reading it, if the London-Hawaii flight happens before the 787 is delivered or not.

The announcement is on CNN Pipeline, straight from the horse's (SRB) mouth:

"We can announce today the Virgin Atlantic will be the first airline to fly non-stop to Australia. When we get these planes we will be flying to Perth initially...........we will also open a new route which will be London to Hawaii.....a route which would not have been possible without this plane."

Shamu
Flying around India
 
ha763
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 11):
So what is the demand in Britain for Hawaiian vacations?

About 65,000 visitors annually.

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 14):
I think people will find that Hawai'i is not as popular with East Coast US residents as you think.

We get around 1 million visitors annually who originate from the East Coast.

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 14):
surprised to hear the amount of British accents around the pool, on the beaches, and in the shops.

You sure they were British and not Australian? We have had a large increase in Australian visitors since HA and JQ started service to the Australian market.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 17):
Then again, what could be scarier than a bunch of Americans with guns?

I would be more afraid of getting hit by a car while crossing the street. We have the strictest gun laws in the nation, but have one of the highest fatality rates for pedestrian accidents.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:46 am

Hawaii, while beautiful, is one of the poorest states in the Union.
 
787EWR
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 9):
How about a VS hook-up with Virgin Blue / Pacific Blue, with the latter flying HNL - SYD/MEL/BNE?

If Virgin were to establish a Mini-Hub in HNL, it would place them in a prime position to offer destinations, from Europe, to in some of the most exotic areas of the world. Also, this doesn't have to be limited to HNL as Virgin Blue could take them to Tahiti or Figi etc. I can imagine winter weary Europeans wanting to tread in year round 75 degree on a tropical island. The fact that the British pound and EUro is now double the US dollar would make them salivate for the opportunity.
 
da man
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 19):
a route which would not have been possible without this plane.

Perhaps this is in reference to the economic implications since the route is already within the capabilities of aircraft already in service with VS?
War Eagle!
 
richierich
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 20):
I would be more afraid of getting hit by a car while crossing the street. We have the strictest gun laws in the nation, but have one of the highest fatality rates for pedestrian accidents.

I hear you and agree. I just started thinking about "scary" parts of the world and then realized that this country isn't exactly the safest place on earth.....

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
Hawaii, while beautiful, is one of the poorest states in the Union.

Tourist-driven economies rarely are, unfortunately. Ask Las Vegas or Atlantic City. Too bad, because Hawaiian islanders are some of the nicest people and Hawai'i has to be one of the most interesting of the 50 states.
None shall pass!!!!
 
gustyorange
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 17):
Hawaii is not cheap compared to Florida, for a start the air fares are likely to be in the region of £500-£600 for economy,

We travel to Florida from GLA every year and I've never paid less than £500. In fact I've recently booked a week in December this year and it cost me over £600 a seat. A seat for my 2 year old daughter cost me over £500.

If we could fly to Hawaii for the same price I'd book in an instant.

g
 
BeachBoy
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
Hawaii, while beautiful, is one of the poorest states in the Union.

What is your statement based on because Hawaii has the 18th highest per capita income in the US!
 
richierich
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting GustyOrange (Reply 25):
We travel to Florida from GLA every year and I've never paid less than £500. In fact I've recently booked a week in December this year and it cost me over £600 a seat. A seat for my 2 year old daughter cost me over £500.

Umm, I didn't write this yet it said the quote was from me... oh well!
None shall pass!!!!
 
Viscount724
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
The route is 6300nm, well within the range of many current airliners.

And one carrier has already operated nonstop Europe-HNL. LH tried FRA-HNL nonstops about 3 times a week using the A340 in the mid-1990s. I think it lasted about 2 years. I believe it was dropped about the time the Star Alliance was created which permitted more economic LH/UA codeshare connections via other US points.

I doubt there's enough traffic to make a VS operation economic and with no business traffic the yield would not be great. Fares would have to be competitive with the many much closer destinations with sunny beaches. Even the Maldives, Seychelles and Mauritius are significantly closer to Europe than Hawaii, and the Caribbean is much closer.

Hawaii is no doubt a popular stopvover on the many special Round the World fares but I can't see many Europeans wanting to fly nonstop to Hawaii and back. If the market existed, someone would have tried it by now, apart from LH's brief effort more than a decade ago.

[Edited 2007-04-25 23:36:00]
 
Rookinla
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
Hawaii, while beautiful, is one of the poorest states in the Union.

This fact is true but is a bit skewed. There is a substantial population of lower-income people in the islands, mainly Native Hawaiians. But don't let that fact fool you for a minute. There is also a substantial group of very wealthy residents as well...a group that can and does travel worldwide. Most tropical destinations have the same dynamic of lower-income residents...ie most of the Caribbean. Yet direct air links from Europe exist. Tahitians aren't extremely wealthy either, yet AF operates to PPT. San Juan isn't extremely affluent either but still has IB to MAD. Ditto BGI, UVF, NAS, etc...etc. The bottom line is that most of the passengers using HNL-LHR (or LGW) will be Europeans..not just from Britain but also France, Germany, etc. There will be more than enough passengers and cargo to sustain profitability on this route. But there will be a few things to watch...

1. You will not see another European air carrier at HNL IMHO.
2. What effect will this have on VS and BA's operations in the Caribbean? I'm not sure that some of the current routes will stay if enough of this tourist traffic chooses Hawaii over the other options.
3. This will have SOME effect on HNL-Mainland flights. Europeans currently have to connect to get to HNL. Although I don't feel that the loss of most of the European connecting traffic will cause discontinuation of any routes, I do think that it might cause a drop in yields on some routes and also a reduction in certain frequencies.

It will certainly be interesting to watch...
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Da man (Reply 23):
Perhaps this is in reference to the economic implications since the route is already within the capabilities of aircraft already in service with VS?

Absolutely.

Shamu
Flying around India
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
BBC News, in their report on VS ordering the 787, says VS plans to operate a new flight London-Hawaii next year.

This is one of the most perpetuated rumors on a.net. Hawaii is in incredible long distance from the British Isles, and I highly doubt there will be any scheduled service (notice I'm not ruling out charters--which the Brit's and the Canuck's have perfected to virtually any and all tropical destinations!) from any of the big two London airports anytime soon or even in the distant future. There are too many Caribbean destinations that are MUCH cheaper like the Dominican Republic for example, but also the Indian Ocean has the Maldives and Seychelles which are much closer and inexpensive for tourists with European origins. To see a LHR/LGW-HNL flight is equivalent to seeing an LAX-MLE flight or a NYC/JFK-MLE flight. A charter carrier and tour operator is going to have to make this much more cheap and popular before scheduled service can really do anything with it.
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Bongodog1964
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 11):
So what is the demand in Britain for Hawaiian vacations?

We have a habit of favouring tourist destinations, getting bored with them and moving on.

|n the 60's and 70's it was Spain and its Islands, 70's & 80's Greece and Cyprus, 90's we went transatlantic to Florida & the Carribbean. IMo the UK tourism providers have recently failed to provide a new "must go" destination

Perhaps this is the VS plan, much of their airline custom, particularly on their Florida & Carribbean routes is tied into their Virgin Holidays tour company; launch Hawaii into their brochures, at a time when the rest of the Uk holiday flight providers don't have the necessary aircraft to fly the route; and make some good margins until the competition catch up.

Hawaii has an island paradise image in the Uk, and it may well be possible to shift a lot of seats in a short space of time.

I realise that premium traffic might well be thin; but this doesn't stop VS deploying a large part of its fleet on holiday routes at present.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:15 am

I worked Hawaiian's flights 10 & 9 between HNL and LAX this past weekend and was thoroughly surprised by the number of Brits onboard connecting to Virgin at LAX.

Perhaps Hawai'i will be marketed primarily to (wealthier) Europeans who WANT to spend more to go somewhere most others can't/don't go.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
JAAlbert
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 32):
|n the 60's and 70's it was Spain and its Islands, 70's & 80's Greece and Cyprus, 90's we went transatlantic to Florida & the Carribbean. IMo the UK tourism providers have recently failed to provide a new "must go" destination

Sounds like the moon should be the next "must see" destination for the british. Is this why SRB is building that spaceport in the New Mexico desert????


At any rate, I agree with all the posts, Hawaii is a wonderful place, great weather, nice people -- rich or poor -- and unmatched scenery. I would love to take the VS flight over the pole from HNL to LHR! I wonder, would it be a day or evening flight?
 
Rookinla
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):
This is one of the most perpetuated rumors on a.net. Hawaii is in incredible long distance from the British Isles, and I highly doubt there will be any scheduled service

Ummm...not a rumour. This came from the mouth of Sir Richard himself on CNN. So it will happen.
 
MCO2BRS
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 32):

Florida is no longer the "in" place to go, I work directly with the Brits that come over, and numbers are on the decline as a whole. Perhaps HNL has the potential to be "the next big thing"?

Surely if VS were to start such a service, given its great distance and the fact that London-HNL has never been attempted before, they would go with a low-frequency to start in order to test the waters so-to-speak? They could do once or twice weekly. Also, how long would the flight be?
 
hnldc10s
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 26):
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
Hawaii, while beautiful, is one of the poorest states in the Union.

What is your statement based on because Hawaii has the 18th highest per capita income in the US!

18th highest income yes, but we also have some of the most espensive real estate and highest cost of living in the country. Meaning, a Hawaii resident making tons more than a Birmingham Alabama resident lives a much poorer life. It's all relative
 
koruman
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:32 pm

A couple of things to point out here:

1. I noticed recently that United is now operating a one stop London Heathrow to Honolulu flight via LAX.

UA 935 Dep LHR 1035 Arr HNL 1952

2. Americans are notoriously poor judges of the attractions of Hawaii and Tahiti for overseas passengers. There is a sort of unwritten rule that middle-income west coast tourists may go to Hawaii and Cabo, and East Coast passengers go to the Caribbean. But this is largely due to, for want of a better expression, their limited long-haul experience due to the fact that they only get a couple of weeks vacation each year. They are only willing to fly up to 8 hours, because their vacation is so short. But most high-income British tourists, with 4-5 weeks vacation, get sick of tacky, humid Florida or the West Indies.

As a result, the market from the UK to the Maldives, Seychelles and Mauritius is strong, as is the market from Italy and France to French Polynesia.

Hawaii used to be a popular stopover for the English in the days before non-stop Trans-Pacific flights. After that, it lacked the ability to fill the business class section of an incoming long-haul aircraft.

But now that there is a significant luxury market in Hawaii (3 week Ritz-Carlton timeshares for 800K, 1 week Westin timeshares for 70K) , Richard Branson is correctly recognising that 40-something affluent British tourists who have outgrown their annual 2 weeks in Florida or 2 weeks in the Bahamas and who are used to flying 15 hours to the Maldives or Thailand WOULD fly 16 hours to get to Hawaii.

Virgin Atlantic probably could fill 20 Upper Class suites, 45 Premium Economy and 150 Economy seats to Hawaii. And Air New Zealand could certainly revitalise their struggling AKL-HNL flight by extending it to London as their third daily flight and the only one leaving AKL in the morning and LHR late at night. It worked for the equally unsuccessful AKL-HKG flight, which flourished as soon as it continued on to London.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:40 pm

How long did Westerns HNL-LON flight last? Anyone know what the load factors were?
 
ikramerica
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RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 3):
And what about a 789? It could do it even better.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the yields.

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 6):
You can't say that unless you know all the costs & all the fares/yield.

Yes I can. Any airline who would start a route that needs more than 75% load (average) to make a profit would not be in business for long.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 17):
The British are very good travellers and are all about exotic locations. Hawaii might appeal to those that like exotic but without the fear of bad food or dangerous people.

They also "discovered" the Sandwich Islands way back when, and there's a union jack in the Hawai'ian flag.

The ability to visit a location that is tropical and where the people speak your language (sort of...) is not to be underestimated. Nor is the 2:1 exchange rate right now.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 19):
...a route which would not have been possible without this plane.



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 30):
Absolutely

Double agree. It's a statement about Economics.

But he also sort of left out that it was practically impossible under Bermuda 2, since the USA and UK weren't going to swap LON-HNL for another route.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):
This is one of the most perpetuated rumors on a.net.

It's not a rumor, it's an opinion. Deal with it.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):
There are too many Caribbean destinations that are MUCH cheaper like the Dominican Republic

Whatever. A Hawai'an provided stats for travel to the Islands from the UK, and counting non-cruise based British travelers there is more than enough established traffic of visitors alone to warrant such a route. Add to that the Hawai'ians going the other way, the TRADE, and the increase in traffic that accompanies a new non-stop route, and there's enough traffic for a 787, possibly 2, a day.

But believe what you want. After all, you are correct, since no flight exists now, it would never work. You have to ignore that no flight CAN exist now to reach that conclusion, but when VS starts it, will you come back and so you were wrong?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:08 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 34):
I would love to take the VS flight over the pole from HNL to LHR! I wonder, would it be a day or evening flight?

I would estimate a mid morning departure from (presumably) LGW, arriving early afternoon in HNL. Then departing HNL mid afternoon, and arriving into LGW mid afternoon the next day.

For example: Dep LGW:10:15, Arr HNL: 12:45
Dep HNL : 14:55 Arr LGW:14:25

One problem to overcome will be scheduling the flight to complement existing VS services. I doubt the route will work if two aircraft are needed solely to operate the route. As it stands the inbound aircraft would then be on the ground at LGW until the next morning - the only possible pairing would be to then operate the MRU service ( which will be the only evening departure from LGW)

Regards
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
Aeri28
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 1:08 pm

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 40):
They also "discovered" the Sandwich Islands way back when, and there's a union jack in the Hawai'ian flag.

yeah, and they also killed Captain Cook in 1779..

I live here and was just realizing how many europeans I have noticed here. all over. on the busses, downtown, ala moana center, waikiki. everywhere. british, french/belge, italian, dutch, languages I don't even recognize. swedish, finnish maybe? who knows, but they're here and en masse.

the british and australian accents are very different from each other, so I'd imagine that several could tell them apart. but im also sure some would not and that's okay.

If Virgin wants to fly here then let them. VS has always struck me as a shrewd airline so maybe they've done some homework, maybe there is something they have plannned that we don't know about.

but it's highly possible some of you are jumping the gun with this speculation. Pacific Business news headline says "Virgin plans London-HNL flights one day" and that "The jets, which won't go into service until 2011 at the soonest, can fly nonstop from Britain to Hawaii or Australia. "
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2007/04/23/daily45.html

but who knows..

[Edited 2007-04-26 08:36:00]
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 16):

True, but you have to take into consideration the cost of a holiday to Hawaii. Hawaii is not cheap compared to Florida, for a start the air fares are likely to be in the region of £500-£600 for economy, throw in food and hotel costs and we're looking at thousands of pounds. No problem if you've got cash to burn, but you're average Brit is financially-concious as anyone else. Ultimately, Florida will remain the king as far as British tourists are concerned but who knows, a non-stop London-Hawaii flight might just open up the tourist market there?.

...given the current value of the quid versus the dollar, it actually doesn't become too expensive for Brits to come to the United States.....

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28):
And one carrier has already operated nonstop Europe-HNL. LH tried FRA-HNL nonstops about 3 times a week using the A340 in the mid-1990s. I think it lasted about 2 years. I believe it was dropped about the time the Star Alliance was created which permitted more economic LH/UA codeshare connections via other US points.

And look the planes you are comparing for one...the economics will be a whole heck of a lot different..and maybe it will be a "Virgin Holidays" type deal...

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):
A charter carrier and tour operator is going to have to make this much more cheap and popular before scheduled service can really do anything with it.

...see above
"Up the Irons!"
 
BeachBoy
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:05 am

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28):
LH tried FRA-HNL nonstops about 3 times a week using the A340 in the mid-1990s. I think it lasted about 2 years.

This is not true. LH never had scheduled or charter flights to HNL. They did ONE demonstration flight FRA-HNL in the late 80s/early 90s with then Governor Waihee's wife on board, but never launched service.
 
ha763
Posts: 3201
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:10 pm

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 44):
This is not true. LH never had scheduled or charter flights to HNL. They did ONE demonstration flight FRA-HNL in the late 80s/early 90s with then Governor Waihee's wife on board, but never launched service.

It is true. LH did fly FRA-HNL for about 2 years. Just go to the Hawaii Newspaper Index at the Hawaii State Library website and do a search for Lufthansa. You will find 2 articles. One from the Honolulu Advertiser dated Oct. 10, 1992 and titled, "LUFTHANSA PLANS NON-STOP, 1ST-EVER DIRECT FRANKFURT-TO-HON PASSENGER-CARRYING FLIGHT." The second from the Honolulu Star Bulletin dated Oct. 19, 1993 and titled, "GERMAN AIRLINE, LUFTHANSA, TO ADD EXTRA FLIGHT FROM FRANKFURT TO HON IN NOV '94." I can also remember the news coverage when that first flight arrived.

(The all caps is from copying and pasting.)
 
Bluewave 707
Posts: 2794
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:21 am

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:15 pm

The major complaint I've got from talking with visiting Brits, are the connections they have to make on the mainland, depending of course on which airline. I believe there is a market for tourists from the UK that want to visit Hawai‘i.


Aloha73G is right, VS and the HA gates are in the same terminal @ LAX (T2), with neighboring gates. So connections can be made rather quickly @ LAX. Should VS come through, I don't think it'll affect the VS/HA code-share since HA can feed these pax to the neighbor islands. I would sure be interesting to see a VS 744 or A345/6 @ HNL.


I'm not sure what the loads were on WA's flights to/from LHR, but I believe it was a big factor in picking up DC-10-30s for their fleet. Didn't they have an LAX-LHR flight too?
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
DC10Widebody
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:58 am

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:36 pm

I am just thinking if the exchange rates continue as they are, currently one British Pound gets you two U.S. Dollars.....so even if those plane tickets cost a bit more, I would think the cost of food hotel etc would be offset by the quite favorable exchange rates....remember the good old days when your dollars went further in Canada? Who knows by the time that route starts up it might be 1 to 3.
Cheers thanks a lot.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5612
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:33 am

Kinda reminds me of the old Western HNL-ANC-LON flights, I don't know how well they did, but at least there was some level of direct service at some point, and that was lots of years ago on a DC-10.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: VS: London - Hawaii Flights?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 46):
I'm not sure what the loads were on WA's flights to/from LHR, but I believe it was a big factor in picking up DC-10-30s for their fleet. Didn't they have an LAX-LHR flight too?



WA's short-lived (about 18 months) service to London was to LGW not LHR. They acquired one DC-10-30 from Air New Zealand, mainly for DEN-LGW (not LAX-LGW, although I think it may have operated LAX-DEN-LGW). After WA dropped the LGW routes they used the DC-10-30 for a while on a joint service with Air Pacific LAX-HNL-NAN. It was painted in FJ livery but operated as a WA flight LAX-HNL and as an FJ flight HNL-NAN (with WA cockpit crews, not sure about the flight attendants). I think WA used the DC-10-10 on HNL-ANC-LGW route, probably with payload restrictions on the ANC-LGW sector. Photos of WA's sole DC-10-30.


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