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tommybp251b
Topic Author
Posts: 332
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German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:20 pm

Hi my fellow germans and all members from A.net!

Why do we lack behind and don't have our own aviation thread? I think it is time to start a german aviation thread.

What about the following discussions?

With the recent DBA takeover from AB will there be a strong counterpart to LH?

Any news on LT going A340?

How will german aviation be in 10 years? Any newcomers? Any bankrupts?

Will we also get a businness class airline, like EOS or Silverjet? I know we already have Private Air on behalf of LH.

Let the discussion begin!!
 
stylo777
Posts: 2811
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:33 pm

AB/DI as well as 4U or HLX are strong within Germany on domestic flights, but they could hardly beat the quality, punctuality, frequencies and flexibilities of LH. On the other side there are only few LH flights to destinations in Southern Europe/Medditearen Sea where AB is very strong and make a lot of business. Another bonus point for AB is that they have several hubs NUE, TXL and also outside Germany PMI and STN.
 
LH492
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:14 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 1):
AB/DI as well as 4U or HLX are strong within Germany on domestic flights, but they could hardly beat the quality, punctuality, frequencies and flexibilities of LH.

If I am not much mistaken, 4U belongs to LH
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting TommyBP251b (Thread starter):
With the recent DBA takeover from AB will there be a strong counterpart to LH?

I don´t think so , this new airline is more for not very rich people , LH makes most of profits on business and First class.
Maybe on the European Market it will be a counterpart .

Quoting TommyBP251b (Thread starter):
How will german aviation be in 10 years? Any newcomers? Any bankrupts?

2 big airlines LH and AB/LT

LH: For business-first and flights like GRU , SIN , JNB , IAD , IAH etc

and

AB: More for cheap flights and flights to the Caribbean or Maldives , etc .

Quoting TommyBP251b (Thread starter):
Will we also get a businness class airline, like EOS or Silverjet? I know we alreadhave Private Air on behalf of LH.

No , Privatejet is too strong having LH and KL maybe something like Ntjets but like L´avion it will not last long
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
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RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 3):

I don´t think so , this new airline is more for not very rich people , LH makes most of profits on business and First

Are you sure? On a flight PMI/FRA my seat neighbour across the aisle was Graefin Pilati, on another flight, same PMI/FRA a young couple with 2 kids and au-pair was in the row ahead, they did not look like they had financial problems.

Going to a trade show in Bilbao 2 years ago, I met the owner of a large company, personal wealth in the triple digit millions, on that HLX flight. Rich people have it from keeping it. There is absolutely no reason to spend € 1200,00 when you can have the same for € 200,00. More, frequency counts, that is why AB is so successful in PMI. Lots of rich people own mansions on that island worth mIllions. AB brings them there on a Friday evening and gets the,m back to work on Sunday night, regardless where you live in Germany. LH can't beat that.

Especially AB has a good average of all income groups. The "Prekariat" rather goes Ryanair.



. . .
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:52 pm

I think that AB/LTU will be the big long range airline in Berlin to fly to BKK / MIA / CARRIBEAN etc. there other hubs will be DUS and MUC !

Its hard to say about TUIfly as nobody really seems to understand there stategy. They change there name and livery every other year so that the Tour Operaters other than TUI will void TUIfly.

Condor will be eventually merge with AB in the future as well so we have 2 big carriers here.

FR and U2 will be both big carriers in Germany in 10 years while FR will be flying still flying from nowhere to nowhere whist U2 will be the biggest "real" low cost carrier in Berlin with a new base in the south to come in 2009.
(AB is not really a low cost carrier: Mileage Program, Inflight Meals for free, Movies etc. and most of the time I find a cheaper carrier on there routes anyway!)

LH will stay as strong as they are now, even though they are still the worst longrange carrier there is, if you compare their inflight product with other carriers esp. Economy Class and Business Class!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 1):
AB/DI as well as 4U or HLX are strong within Germany on domestic flights, but they could hardly beat the quality, punctuality, frequencies and flexibilities of LH.

Except for frequency, I would tend to disagree. DBA most certainly offered a pretty good product when I flew them on HAM-STR-HAM to connect to Delta. You certainly can't beat the "ofenfrische Laugenstange" Big grin . And overall, their punctuality is more or less on par with LH.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:33 pm

Will NUE ever see any other company than Air Berlin ??
The passenger numbers in NUE dropped throughout the first months of 2007 and there are no indications that either Easyjet,Germanwings or Ryanair manage to land in Frankonia...
TuiFly is rather reducing than increasing it's offer and only bright spots are Finnair with a new daily HEL flight and two Izmir sheduled flight by Sunexpress.
Rather disappointing development !
 
tommybp251b
Topic Author
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:21 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 5):
AB is not really a low cost carrier: Mileage Program, Inflight Meals for free, Movies etc. and most of the time I find a cheaper carrier on there routes anyway!

What is your oppinion about 4U concerining your comment? Low-cost or no Low-cost?
 
flyorski
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:23 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:52 pm

Anyone know how FR is doing from BRE at this point?
 
Humberside
Posts: 3242
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 9):
Anyone know how FR is doing from BRE at this point?

New routes and 3rd based aircraft announced today
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:29 am

Let's talk about HAM for a moment. Given the way EK's HAM-JFK tag on is doing, do you even give it a chance to survive a year longer? And when will U2 expand more to HAM? It'd be nice to have more options than just BSL and BRS.
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
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RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:38 am

Dear all,

Can someone please shed some light on this one and provide some explanation:

http://www.libanon-reisen.net/


Do they fly their own aircraft or are they just a tour operator? They're promoting direct flights out of BEY to Germany and few odd places including Armenia! One of their ads in a local paper has a photo of B737 with their titles. The photo is so small and I think it may be just Photoshoped.

Many thanks in advance.
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting OD720 (Reply 12):
Can someone please shed some light on this one and provide some explanation:

http://www.libanon-reisen.net/


Do they fly their own aircraft or are they just a tour operator?

Looks like a site from a tour operator to me. They seem to be offering flights from TXL, GOT, HAJ, CGN, MUC and MMX. Don't know which airline they charter for these flights though.
 
nosedive
Posts: 2176
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 2:18 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 3):
I don´t think so , this new airline is more for not very rich people , LH makes most of profits on business and First class.

AB isn't exactly rock bottom either.

Come opening day at BBI, all of Berlin will be asking 2 things: "Where's Knut?" and "Will they close THF, finally"  stirthepot 
And who does LH buy next, and when will they, LH, not get around to installing PTVs  duck 

Actually I was wrong. Berlin will be asking a 3rd question as well: "When will Nosedive come back?"
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting OD720 (Reply 12):
Do they fly their own aircraft or are they just a tour operator? They're promoting direct flights out of BEY to Germany and few odd places including Armenia! One of their ads in a local paper has a photo of B737 with their titles.

I made a test booking on the site (CGN-BEY-CGN) and got the following flight numbers: FCR3262 outbound and FCR3263 inbound. I googeled "FCR ICAO Code" and found out that it is a Lebabese airline called "Flying Carpet", according to Wikipedia they recently bought a Boeing 737 from Southwest Airlines. Click here for the Wikipedia article.

Patrick
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 14):
And who does LH buy next, and when will they, LH, not get around to installing PTVs

Well I think at the end they´ll takeover IB or SK one of both , I´ld rather go for IB as they don´t have the complicate system of SK and it´s pretty profitable , also the South America routes is what LH and *A needs now .
At the end LH will buy IB .

PTVs: The fist PTVs will be installed this year ...

Edit :

This is the reason for LH to not buy SK ...

http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsid=3370

[Edited 2007-04-26 21:59:02]
 
rineanna
Posts: 768
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:33 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 10):
New routes and 3rd based aircraft announced today

7 new routes from Bremen!

Quote:
Ryanair, Europe's largest low-fare airline, today (Thursday, 26th April 2007) announced 7 new routes from its Bremen base to Alghero (Sardinia), Bratislava, Malta, Milan, Paris, Stockholm and Trapani (Sicily), bringing Ryanair's total routes from Bremen to 18.

These 7 new routes will start in September, when Ryanair will add a third brand new Boeing 737-800 to the base, bringing the airline's total investment in Bremen to over $220M.

Announcing the 7 new routes, Sean Coyle, Ryanair's Director of Scheduled Revenue said:

Ryanair's Bremen base has been a tremendous success from day one and our €220M investment in the airport will deliver over 1 million passengers in the coming year, sustaining 1,000 jobs and generating a visitor spend of over €150M. Today's package of 7 additional routes means even more choice and even more low fares for German consumers who want to escape from the high fares and fuel surcharges of Lufthansa.

 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:18 am

Hi ThommyBP251b!

I would still call Germanwings a non frills carrier as their administation is quite small for the bonus programm!
And they still have a full BOB not like AB!

Non Frills Carriers: Ryanair (where you get nothing at all, not even your required Destination!)
easyJet (proper Low Cost Airline- non frills but flies you from City to City)
Germanwings (alright even sponsort by parent)

Low Cost Airlines
with Frills: TUIFly (as they still serve free drinks and snacks on longer flights: HF ops flights, non frills
only on HLX ops flights)
Air Berlin (not always the cheapest way to go, but otherwise quite nice)
Condor (it seems they don't really know what they are!)
LTU (...shortly Air Berlin)

Legacy Carriers: Lufthansa (Best Network, Taxes and Fuel Surcharges to high! No competitive inflight service
on Shorter Flights, should either offer free snacks or BOB !)
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 15):
I googeled "FCR ICAO Code" and found out that it is a Lebanese airline called "Flying Carpet",

Many thanks for that.

Flying Carpet is known here. They operate 2 737-200s


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Vatche Mitilian
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vatche Mitilian

 
tommybp251b
Topic Author
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:21 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 18):
BOB

Can you just explain me what BOB means?
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:05 am

Can someone shed more light regarding LH's long haul configured AB6 (ABA) aircraft. How many are in the fleet? Their configuration (including photos if possible)? Will they be used as a short-term interim until further A330s arrive or will they operate in medium haul markets for a few more years? It is disappointing to see the airline's 2x daily CAI flights downgraded from the A330 to the ABA.

Horus
 
Joost
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 20):
Can you just explain me what BOB means?

Buy-on-board. So a full BOB is a good menu of choices for food and drinks  Smile
 
shane
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:38 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 20):

Can you just explain me what BOB means?

I thought it meant Bayerischen Oberlandbahn!
 
columba
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RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:29 am

Did you hear the Cirrus will get the DE 757-300s ?
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 24):
Did you hear the Cirrus will get the DE 757-300s ?

Isn't that too big for a regional airline like Cirrus? And if true, why would DE start getting rid of their fairly new 753s?
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:04 am

Cirrus are going for 753? Whar are they doing with it? Hourly shuttle between SCN and THF?  bouncy 
 
Humberside
Posts: 3242
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:53 pm

Arent Cirrus starting charter flights in assoication with Futura. That could be one use for a B753
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4427
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:54 pm

C9 might get SOME of DE's B753 - probably 4 or 5 - due to pilot shortages at DE, not all of them. They will be operated as a partial wet-lease (cockpit crew from C9, cabin crew from DE).
 
tommybp251b
Topic Author
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:21 am

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 21):

Will they get C9 colours?

On another topic: When will LT get the A340?
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4427
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread: Part 1

Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:18 pm

Either Thomas Cook-colors without the Condor-titles or full Condor colors with a small "operated by Cirrus" sticker.

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