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Revelation
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Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:36 am

Straight from the horse's mouth (or the other end, if you please!):

Airbus was 'caught napping' by 787: Leahy

Quote:
He says that, following Boeing’s failed Sonic Cruiser programme, Airbus did not believe that the US airframer would be able to deliver its initial 787 specifications. “Our first reaction was that they were exaggerating what they could do,” says Leahy.
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SEPilot
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:44 am

Hey, all you Leahy bashers, the guy can speak the truth!
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
Toulouse
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:45 am

No kidding! Don't think that's much of a surprise to any of us.
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chiad
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:48 am

LOL
 Big grin
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 2):
Hey, all you Leahy bashers, the guy can speak the truth!

What else can he say at this point? After he's gone on record by making those comments about the 787 back in 2004, he can't do anything but admit putting his head up his @$$.

I can only hope that in another three years, Leahy admits to being caught sleeping when Y3 enters service.
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:52 am

My $0.02: Airbus was so caught up in their own hype regarding the A380 that they lost focus on the market, their customers and their competition.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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avianca707359b
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:09 am

Quote:

"Despite delays to the type’s eventual entry into service, anticipated for mid-2013, Leahy says: “This will be the year for A350 XWB orders. We are a bit late, but a lot of airlines are saying this is an aircraft worth waiting for. We’ll see if they do wait.”

There is no question that their customers will wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. And wait........
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 5):
I can only hope that in another three years, Leahy admits to being caught sleeping when Y3 enters service.

Why on earth would you want that? If that happens, Airbus will be AirBUST. Would love to know why you are so keen for yet another commercial aircraft manufacturer to go bankrupt. Care to explain?

Personally, my heart lies with Boeing, given the jobs it creates in Chicago, but I love Airbus aircraft as well, and would be delighted to have them back on track for two reasons:
1) They've introduced some innovative and exciting aircraft, and their competitive presence is largely the swing factor resulting in the 777, the 787 and the 748i
2) If we only had Boeing, flying is going to be really pricey - expect American, US, UA, Delta, et al to be paying list prices for their 787's.
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:12 am

I have a big problem with this statement. Why? I was working the A305 prior to the A380 launch and Airbus KNEW there was a big demand for that market. The A305 was impressive! It was to be the daunch airframe for the PW8163.  bigthumbsup 

So airbus wasn't caught napping. They quite bluntly told all of their partners they were putting it all on the line for the A380. Hence why that airframe's delays are an issue for Airbus.

Now, I'm one of the few US fans of the A380... I see its niche. However, due to the delays, I do not see the business case.  Sad

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 2):
Hey, all you Leahy bashers, the guy can speak the truth!

A stopped clock...

The reality is that aircraft must constantly be under development. In other words, hire more aerospace R&D engineers.  Wink

Lightsaber
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irishpower
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 9):

My thoughts exactly!!! Don't kick Airbus when they are down-they still have plenty of great products! I think Leahy has just had a good dose of Karma dished out to him. We, Boeing fans,need to remember this and keep our negative thoughts to ourselves!
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
He says that, following Boeing’s failed Sonic Cruiser programme, Airbus did not believe that the US airframer would be able to deliver its initial 787 specifications. “Our first reaction was that they were exaggerating what they could do,” says Leahy

Glad to see that us Americans can admit when we are wrong!

I'd love to see a breakdown of what has happened in Airbus' engineering ranks. As much as we love to criticize Leahy, he is the face of a large organization. His comments about "going back to less than 30% composites", "A330 is just as efficient", etc. are based on information from the engineers, not made in a vacuum. Hopefully Airbus has gotten rid of these engineers, too.
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
wcs
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:16 am

So typical attitude. Must be THE mistake to avoid, and basically every company fell in at some point. Take a look at AMD for computers CPU ...

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 8):
And let it be noted that this agreement is coming from a Euro citizen and true Airbus fan, but no point denying the truth

Agree.

I think that National Pride or more specifically the "fan boy" attitude is just overrated here. Don't forget that we are there a big load of almost fanatics folks. Switch to a computer Forum for example, and you will find the same problems.

European can do intelligent business, just like American. Most insiders tend to admit that Boeing was wise and smart with the so called Dreamliner. And it's totally safe to admit that, even for European.

Regards,
Raphael
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ikramerica
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:17 am

This is not "caught napping." Caught napping is to be asleep. It's a sin of ignorance or carelessness.

They were caught being obnoxious and dismissive. Making snide comments and not believing that anyone was better than them. That's an entirely different sin in business, and they are paying for it now…

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
It was a better 727 replacement than the 757. Boeing didn't catch on to this till UA ordered a boatload of them, and the rest is history.

Well, whatever you say.

They bought 100 757s, the same number of 727-200s they had (roughly).

They bought A320s WAY before they retired their 727s.
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
A stopped clock...

Are you implying that Leahy speaks the truth twice a day?  duck 
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 5):
What else can he say at this point? After he's gone on record by making those comments about the 787 back in 2004, he can't do anything but admit putting his head up his @$$.

I can only hope that in another three years, Leahy admits to being caught sleeping when Y3 enters service.

Eat crow, Leahy. If he had 1 pound for every 787 ordered, he would need a rather large shovel.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 6):
My $0.02: Airbus was so caught up in their own hype regarding the A380 that they lost focus on the market, their customers and their competition.

Yup. Absolutely.
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 9):
Boeing had not produced a new aircraft type in years. The 757-300, 767-400 and 737G were more or less variants of existing types. The last new build aircraft was the 777. Boeing tried to offer new versions of the 747X, 747-500 and 747-600 but the airlines were not interested.

Bleh, I hate it when people make this comment, or something similar. You do realize that ALL (except the A380) Airbus widebody aircraft all stem from the A300. While the technology inside has changed and there have been improvements to the wing, new engines, 4 and 2 engined aircraft, there's nothing they did that was exceedingly different than Boeing.

The 747-400 was a redesign of the wing, a two man glass cockpit and increase in range, new engines, greater range and winglets among many other technological advances.

The 737 was a complete redesign in the wing, engines, and cockpit as well, increased range and winglets.

Not to mention that they've all been stretched and unstretched, just like Airbus.

My point is, they may look very similar to what Boeing and Airbus had to offer 30 or 40 years ago, but they are totally different aircraft. So your point is not valid.

UAL
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):

They were caught being obnoxious and dismissive. Making snide comments and not believing that anyone was better than them. That's an entirely different sin in business, and they are paying for it now…

I look at it a bit different way, except they were dismissive of the technology (CFRP). Or, instead, that maybe Boeing would have in the end frozen the 787 design with significantly less CFRP use than Airbus expected (remember A trying to downplay CFRP in the beginning?). So in a way, it's still saying the same thing. . .
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 9):
Airbus did not take Boeing seriously enough given Boeing latest history. Boeing had not produced a new aircraft type in years. The 757-300, 767-400 and 737G were more or less variants of existing types.



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 21):
Bleh, I hate it when people make this comment, or something similar. You do realize that ALL (except the A380) Airbus widebody aircraft all stem from the A300.

Not only that, but prior to the A380 launch, Boeing was the one with the newest aircraft family, the 777, by about 2 years.

Quoting N844AA (Reply 13):
To be fair, AA was in serious talks with Boeing about buying up the first three years of SC production. Then 9/11 hit and the rest is history.

The SC made plenty of sense in an environment where fuel costs were 10% of operating costs and labor was 30%, and capital a significant part of the remaining. Fuel consumption reduction doesn't have a big impact when fuel prices are low. A 20% reduction only gets 2% total reduction. A 15% decrease in flight time can significant reduce flight hours, and possibly allow airlines to get an extra flight in a day, improving utilization of expensive equipment and reducing need to additional aircraft.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
Now, I'm one of the few US fans of the A380... I see its niche. However, due to the delays, I do not see the business case.

You don't have to be a fan to see its niche. But if you think that its niche is too small, then it might be understandable to not be a fan.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
They were caught being obnoxious and dismissive. Making snide comments and not believing that anyone was better than them. That's an entirely different sin in business, and they are paying for it now…

Airbus supremacists, they were.
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columba
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 21):
Quoting Columba (Reply 9):
Boeing had not produced a new aircraft type in years. The 757-300, 767-400 and 737G were more or less variants of existing types. The last new build aircraft was the 777. Boeing tried to offer new versions of the 747X, 747-500 and 747-600 but the airlines were not interested.

Bleh, I hate it when people make this comment, or something similar. You do realize that ALL (except the A380) Airbus widebody aircraft all stem from the A300. While the technology inside has changed and there have been improvements to the wing, new engines, 4 and 2 engined aircraft, there's nothing they did that was exceedingly different than Boeing.

The 747-400 was a redesign of the wing, a two man glass cockpit and increase in range, new engines, greater range and winglets among many other technological advances.

The 737 was a complete redesign in the wing, engines, and cockpit as well, increased range and winglets.

I was mainly refering to the 767-400 and 757-300. The 737-700 and 747-400 as you say have not much in common with its older sisters but you also can not compare an A300B2 with a three man cockpit with a fly by wire A330 as well.
My point was Airbus was for the last decades the more innovative company:
First widebody twin, first fly by wire airliner etc...Boeing seemed to always a step behind but that had changed with the 787 and caught Airbus off guard. I am big fan of both companies and don't want to bash the one or the other but I think it is fair to say that both companies carry their shares of problems. The last couple of years Airbus was leading now it is Boeing terms and in a few years it will be Airbus again and even later maybe a Chinese manufacturer, who knows
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We're Nuts
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:18 am

Someone buy him a forums account, I think he could really add to the discourse here.
Dear moderators: No.
 
columba
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 25):
Someone buy him a forums account, I think he could really add to the discourse here.

I believe he is very well informed of what is going on here, even if he is not reading here personally some of his staff is definitely and will likely have a good laugh on many comments, same goes for Randy Basler' s staff.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
So airbus wasn't caught napping. They quite bluntly told all of their partners they were putting it all on the line for the A380. Hence why that airframe's delays are an issue for Airbus.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
They were caught being obnoxious and dismissive. Making snide comments and not believing that anyone was better than them. That's an entirely different sin in business, and they are paying for it now…

 checkmark 

Spot on. When it was anounced in 2003, the overall concept of the 787 was communicated by Boeing quite openly, as the customers had to be prepared for novel technologies like composite primary structures and bleedless systems as early as possible in order to build trust and gain acceptance in the marketplace. At Airbus, the threat was identified early but was met with dismissive arrogance and counterfactual analysis.
Moreover, it is safe to assume that airline customers immediately confronted Leahy with what Boeing had just presented to them on the '7E7' as it was then called. To invoke ignorance or plead having been caught napping is pathetic. TIme to resign, Mr. Leahy.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 26):
I believe he is very well informed of what is going on here, even if he is not reading here personally some of his staff is definitely and will likely have a good laugh on many comments, same goes for Randy Basler' s staff.

Yeah I was being sarcastic. Leahy is only slightly smarter than the average a.net user.
Dear moderators: No.
 
khobar
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 11):
“This will be the year for A350 XWB orders. We are a bit late, but a lot of airlines are saying this is an aircraft worth waiting for. We’ll see if they do wait.”

This is an interesting statement - "We'll see if they do wait"??? Is he saying this with a grin, or is he kinda shrugging his shoulders and truly doesn't know?

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 12):
Why on earth would you want that? If that happens, Airbus will be AirBUST.

Airbus will never be AirBUST. I dare say steps would be taken by Boeing, the US Government, and the various governments in Europe and elsewhere to prevent that.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 23):
A 15% decrease in flight time can significant reduce flight hours, and possibly allow airlines to get an extra flight in a day, improving utilization of expensive equipment and reducing need to additional aircraft.

I seem to recall there were "complaints" that a) the SC was less efficient than "traditional" designs and b) the extra speed would screw up schedules. Not saying that's actually the case, just that that's what I seem to recall.
 
Aither
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:37 am

It's always the same story : when you're the leader and a competitor is catching up by making a successful product, people say your were "napping". That's always the same easy explanation. When people have this kind of explanation I tend to think they did not fully investigated the story.
Never trust the obvious
 
ikramerica
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 27):
To invoke ignorance or plead having been caught napping is pathetic. TIme to resign, Mr. Leahy.

Despite the strong A320 sales, he should have been fired a while ago. He's been wrong too many times, and his job is not just a salesman to bring information to clients, but to bring information back to Airbus about what customers are asking for. He's failed at that repeatedly. Whether it's Airbus not listening to him or him not taking customer needs seriously, it's a failure on his part.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
a380heavy
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:41 am

The existence of both companies is something we should all champion and at all levels. It would be a truly sad day if one or the other were not around. Each company has enjoyed successes and failures over the years.

It must be true that Boeing some time back could not have foreseen the growth of Airbus and how much of a serious competitor they have become.

Similarly Airbus was undoubtedly caught asleep when the 787 was launched - and as some of you have said, it has cost them dearly. I am sure that in future fights that the upper hand will change places, and back again, as it has done thus far.

I am very pleased to see the amazing sales success achieved by the 787 and really do hope that it does live up to all of the expectations. I say this as an aviation enthusiast, and as a future potential passenger.

I am also pleased that some of our American friends can be objective in the Airbus/Boeing debate.

A healthy debate is something that should be encouraged in this forum, some of the fanatical rants are just plain uncalled for and do not add to the quality and content of this web site. Opinions are fine but some of the comments on here are bordering on extreme.

As a true enthusiast I wish each of these aircraft and aircraft manufacturers the best of luck and I look forward to being able to see these fine examples of technology gracing our skies in the very near future.

I sometimes feel I am in a minority by not wishing to see the demise of either company - is there anybody else out there who feels the same, or is it just me?
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bigjku
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
Despite the strong A320 sales, he should have been fired a while ago. He's been wrong too many times, and his job is not just a salesman to bring information to clients, but to bring information back to Airbus about what customers are asking for. He's failed at that repeatedly. Whether it's Airbus not listening to him or him not taking customer needs seriously, it's a failure on his part.

He will never get canned because the hunt to replace him would be a big political football at Airbus. It actually works well to have him be an American he can take the politics out of his job to an extent.

He has been a failure at his job recently as you descibe but I don't think he will get replaced any time soon.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 30):
The existence of both companies is something we should all champion and at all levels. It would be a truly sad day if one or the other were not around. Each company has enjoyed successes and failures over the years.

We should champion competition.

But in the spirit of healthy debate...

Embraer is ready for the next level... Northrop and Lockheed could joint venture if either Boeing or Airbus left the market. Some day China will build a mainline airframe (although, its going to be hopelessly out of date in a world of $60+/bbl oil).

Adam Smith wrote a neat book that points out that high profit monopolies will always be broken...

I would argue it would be just as bad if we ever get to one engine maker...
Or one avionics vendor...
Or even one aviation tire vendor.

We must have competition. That means at times one or the other will be down. Heck, one might even get knocked out... but a new contender will always enter the ring.  Wink

Lightsaber
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Lemurs
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 10):
I'd love to see a breakdown of what has happened in Airbus' engineering ranks. As much as we love to criticize Leahy, he is the face of a large organization. His comments about "going back to less than 30% composites", "A330 is just as efficient", etc. are based on information from the engineers, not made in a vacuum. Hopefully Airbus has gotten rid of these engineers, too.

This is an important fact that's lost on A.net. These guys who own PR for their companies are not engineers...even if they were in the past, they aren't now. Their job is PR. They get battle cards from their own internal teams that do number crunching, forecasting, and engineering evaluations. Then they step in front of the hot lights and talk about it as the face of the company. If they're wrong, they have to eat crow...as does the company.

It doesn't mean they're not at fault (because as a PR flak, you want the best data at all times, and have to do some due dilligence to make sure you're getting it), but it's not remotely entirely their fault. Leahy wasn't the one who was REALLY caught napping here, it was the competition evaluation team that fed him his data...and thus, a large and important part of Airbus as an organization.
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ikramerica
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 29):
This is an important fact that's lost on A.net. These guys who own PR for their companies are not engineers...even if they were in the past, they aren't now. Their job is PR

No, that is not his job. The PR department's job is PR. He's the head salesman.

His job is as I described, as is Randy's. Read the press release about Randy being replaced by Randy to learn the entirity of the job, and it includes more than making stupid public statements.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:32 am

Pretty brutal karma (re: that "paper airplane" comment) now that the 787 is only months from takeoff and the A350XWB (way to apply the "Mountain Dew" effect to an airplane, Airbus) design still hasn't been frozen.

And that's not a silly A v.s. B comment. Just calling it as I see it.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
ncelhr
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:04 am

The trouble is that Airbus went through what Boeing had gone through a few years earlier.
The re-structuring plan is now going through all of that. Yes, there were many failures, but what's important is that they are being addressed now and not just swept under the carpet. From what I hear, all the staff at Airbus is conscious of those past failures and as long as political interference doesn't take a precedence on the new business plans, you'll see Airbus rise to the challenge.

Both Boeing and Airbus are great companies with great people. This is a very tough market and errors are very costly. Airbus is currently paying the high price, just like Boeing did.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:09 am

There is a lot of judgement going on here, making airbus wrong and Boeing right

I used to exist in this way of being, and on this site,l I even got banned so determined was I to be right about everything. I now live a life with no right or wrong. It's great! It frees me of judgement, and allows me to let facts be facts without putting meaning into them. What do I get? Airbus is a great company that make terrific planes. Boeing is a great company that make terrific planes

Peaceful rest for all
 
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Revelation
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
Well, whatever you say.

Thanks for agreeing with me!  Smile

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
They bought 100 757s, the same number of 727-200s they had (roughly).

And they bought 150 A32Xs, so I'm not sure what you can say about that.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
They bought A320s WAY before they retired their 727s.

No kidding, they are still flying 737 Classics. Again, not sure what you can say about that.
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grantcv
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:16 am

Mr Leahy's statements don't really add up. Airbus wasn't caught napping - far from it, Airbus was too heavily focused on the wrong thing - the A380. That intense focus in a niche left them vulnerable everywhere else. Boeing did their part and took aim right at a point where Boeing's position was weak and yet Airbus's position was relatively strong. The result is quite clever - Airbus is having to now focus all their resources on reacting to the 787 - wrecking havoc to their widebody lineup. They are not quite replacing the A340 while partially replacing the A330 which would otherwise not be the next plane to be replaced. And while Airbus must now spend considerable resources to react to the 787, their bigger vulnerabilities don't get addressed. This leaves Boeing in a position to make the next move - replacing the 737 at a time when Airbus simply won't be able to muster the resources to react in a timely way. And what about the A300/A310 market? And what about the upper end of the A340 and B748 market?

This has been a brilliantly played chess game - Boeing accepted their losses in the early 2000s and chose play for the long term with some well thought out moves rather than reacting at the time with short terms moves that would have ultimately undermined their long-term business.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 30):
No, that is not his job. The PR department's job is PR. He's the head salesman.

From John Leahy's Biography at Airbus.Com

Quote:
John Leahy was appointed Chief Operating Officer – Customers in July 2005, also continuing as Chief Commercial Officer of Airbus, a role he held since August 1994. His responsibilities cover all commercial activities including sales, marketing, contracts, business transaction control, asset management, leasing, and business development, He is also in charge of all Airbus subsidiaries – Airbus North America, Airbus China, Airbus Japan, and Airbus Russia – as well as of all regional sales offices. Mr Leahy is a member of the Airbus Executive Committee (or Management Board).

So he was Chief Commerical Officer since 1994, which I can imagine entails both listening to customers as well as talking to them. In that time frame, we haven't had too many good commercial decisions:
  • A340-5/6
  • A380
  • A350 Mk1-Mk6
  • 'Caught napping' while the 787 was being introduced
Either:
  • (A) Leahy doesn't listen to the customers
  • (B) Leahy doesn't communicate what he learns to the rest of the company
  • (C) People within Airbus don't listen to what Leahy says
In any case, I think he should be shown the door.
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HughesAirwest
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 6):
We are a bit late, but a lot of airlines are saying this is an aircraft worth waiting for.

I am skeptical that the A350 is worth the wait given Airbus's past history starting with the A346 to the A380. I really hope that Airbus surprises me with a product that matches their hype.  sigh 
"One man practicing Teamwork is far better than fifty preaching it."
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 26):
I sometimes feel I am in a minority by not wishing to see the demise of either company - is there anybody else out there who feels the same, or is it just me?

No, it isn't just you. I'm an airliner buff and I want all manufacturers to do well. It means more different kinds of planes to fly in and spot.

I think most people here agree with you, but there sure seems to be a lot of folks enjoying seeing one or the other struggle. That I don't get.

While it seems that Airbus underestimated Boeing, it doesn't mean they can't put together a great competitor down the road. I think those who say the A380 was a factor in them being unprepared for the 787's appeal have a good point. And the A380 should be their priority now. Too much money, as well as their reputation, is at stake there. But keep working on the A350.

And it would be in Boeing's best interest to learn from this and not underestimate Airbus.

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
HughesAirwest
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
you also can not compare an A300B2 with a three man cockpit with a fly by wire A330 as well.

Yes you can. The point was that while Boeing has used the same airframe for the 744 and 737NG, Airbus has used the same airframe from the A300 on the A310, A330 and the A340 families. It is just the guts have changed with technology, along with a new wing and new engines, but using the SAME fuselage.
"One man practicing Teamwork is far better than fifty preaching it."
 
detroitflyer
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 3):
Yes ... you Americans really showed them

lol...isnt leheay american himself??
Boiler Up!!!
 
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
My $0.02: Airbus was so caught up in their own hype regarding the A380 that they lost focus on the market, their customers and their competition.

The 2 CEO's were caught up in their own worlds.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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glideslope
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 3):
LOL
 
Yes ... you Americans really showed them.

Um, at this point I'd say it is now beyond that by quite a bit.  Smile

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 19):
Someone buy him a forums account, I think he could really add to the discourse here.

He is a member, IMO.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
Despite the strong A320 sales, he should have been fired a while ago. He's been wrong too many times, and his job is not just a salesman to bring information to clients, but to bring information back to Airbus about what customers are asking for. He's failed at that repeatedly. Whether it's Airbus not listening to him or him not taking customer needs seriously, it's a failure on his part.

 checkmark 
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
Ken777
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:02 pm

Airbus is very similar to Boeing in that both have a lot of very talented engineers and both have had some major problems because of management decisions. I would suspect that there were a lot of Airbus engineers moaning at the potential of the 7E7 and listening to Leahy - and others in Airbus management.

The most important question in my mind is how much R&D effort is Airbus putting into the 320 replacement? Considering that 787 technology is going to be used in Y1 and Y1 will probably be announced much sooner than Airbus would like is Airbus allocating sufficient resources to this program, or will they just shift a "total focus" to the XWB as fast as they can pull engineers off of the 380 program?

While Leahy holds some responsibility for the problems at Airbus the simple fact is that he was not the CEO who made the final decisions, nor was he the one that developed the Power8 concepts (but he probably had some input into it).

I vote to keep him around. He's a pretty good salesman and no one else at Airbus has his experience in giving customers bad news - without getting hit with major cancellations, at least on the pax side.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
So he was Chief Commerical Officer since 1994, which I can imagine entails both listening to customers as well as talking to them. In that time frame, we haven't had too many good commercial decisions:
A340-5/6

A380

A350 Mk1-Mk6

'Caught napping' while the 787 was being introduced
Either:
(A) Leahy doesn't listen to the customers

(B) Leahy doesn't communicate what he learns to the rest of the company

(C) People within Airbus don't listen to what Leahy says
In any case, I think he should be shown the door.

WOW... I knew he was a big mouthed idiot, but I didn't realise just how much power he had, nor the extent of the programs that have tanked or are tanking under his watch. Given the amount of design that goes FROM marketing TO engineering at Airbus, its not like you can blame the engineers so much as Leahy over selling the products before they exist.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 32):
The trouble is that Airbus went through what Boeing had gone through a few years earlier.
The re-structuring plan is now going through all of that.

Except about ten times worse. Boeing had some rough years, but in hindsight really pales to what Airbus is enduring at present or in the near future.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
Either:
* (A) Leahy doesn't listen to the customers
* (B) Leahy doesn't communicate what he learns to the rest of the company
* (C) People within Airbus don't listen to what Leahy says
In any case, I think he should be shown the door.

You had me at A.

The A350 XWB is looking more and more like an aircraft in constant reaction mode while the 787 is looking more and more like an aircraft tailor-fitted to present and future market demands. This week alone witnessed two startling developments, namely the "defection" of a fiercely loyal Airbus customer (VS) to the 787-9 and the strong indications that QR is splitting their mega-order to include the 787-8.

We aren't far from one year since Airbus "re-launched" the A350 as the A350 XWB. Since the re-launch, Airbus has only firmed 23 XWB orders of the 102 firm A350 orders they previously held. Crap, might they have been better off just getting the original A350 to market years sooner?
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Vorticity
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:26 pm

I make it a general point never to trust a salesperson.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 43):
Airbus is very similar to Boeing in that both have a lot of very talented engineers and both have had some major problems because of management decisions. I would suspect that there were a lot of Airbus engineers moaning at the potential of the 7E7 and listening to Leahy - and others in Airbus management.

 checkmark  Talented engineers at both companies... you could never make an airplane that flies without them.

I can't speak much for Airbus, because my knowledge of their organizational structure is a combination of speculation and information from the press; neither of which is necesarily reliable. I can say that in any organization, good leadership is a necesity. The one trait I've noticed of effective leaders is the ability to listen. The ability to listen to your customer, and listen to the people that work for you.

Leahy admitting to a mistake, that's more than some world leaders can do (cough cough). Right now as the A v. B business war fights on, people on each side are making incorrect assumptions about eachother's business moves. Hindsight, as always, will be 20/20. But it's good to admit the mistake and move on.
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Rheinbote
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:52 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 29):
Leahy wasn't the one who was REALLY caught napping here, it was the competition evaluation team that fed him his data...and thus, a large and important part of Airbus as an organization.

No. Sales & Marketing forces the evaluation teams to do counterfactual analysis exactly the way they want it. At some point, they inevitably start to believe their own propaganda, and then they loose grip with reality. That's what Leahy calls 'napping'.
 
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:59 pm

I thing I was taught at a young age, and still believe it, is to NEVER underestimate someone elses abilitys, maybe its time that Leahy and Airbus need to go back to school and re-learn it. Airbus will continue to pay for their failure for years to come, and it serves them right 100%
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Joni
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RE: Leahy: Airbus Was 'caught Napping' By 787

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 21):
TIme to resign, Mr. Leahy.

Why should Leahy resign? He doesn't decide what planes Airbus builds, his job is to sell the ones that are made.

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