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psimpson
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Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:17 am

Speaking to my good contact at JM today, i learned some sad news in that Air Jamaica are looking to stop flying to London from around the end of October. As you are probably well aware, JM are not in the best of financial health and the costs of operating the London service is proving too great. The 2 A340s leases do not expire until 2012 so JM will sub lease them out if they axe the London services
Air Jamaica would maintain a presense on the London route in a similar way to Caribbean Airlines through a codeshare with a UK carrier.
Regarding the Boeing aircrafts for JM, my contact said JM have not made any firm plans but are evaluating the Boeings for possible November entry.
 
belizexp
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:27 am

If I'm not mistaking JM will sell the LHR slot to BA and code share with BA on the Jamaica/ London route this fall.
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luv2fly
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 1):
If I'm not mistaking JM will sell the LHR slot to BA and code share with BA on the Jamaica/ London route this fall.

I am surprised that they have not sub leased the service to a charter carrier to operate on there behalf while they get the financial house in order. They did this before when they had service from the west coast and I believe it was TZ that operated the flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Humberside
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:38 pm

Are JM's slots at a suitable time of day for US flights - if so I bet they will get quite a bit of money for them
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hummingbird
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:27 pm

Due to the enormous loss and high operating cost, the management decided to cut the route and use the A340 on the JFK and YYZ route. Plans are in place to have a codeshare with VS who already operates a 747-400 to MBJ. One reason the London route failed is the low yields combined with the delays, I heard the cost associated with one delayed flight is astronomical. In my opinion there was no reason to have a three class service to London. Currently they offer First, Premium economy and economy class. The previous business class was converted to P.E to compete with VS. When you compare VS and JM based on service, JM unfortunately fails based on entertainment and inflight amenities. I love JM and I hope the future outlook is positive. I hope they look at competing on an international level rather than regional.


Regarding Boeing, the 757 is confirmed, but initial entry is still unknown. I was informed of the unavailability of the 737, Airbus has been pushing the A319, which are readily available.

BTW Airbus has been warning JM regarding the use of the A340 between MBJ and KIN. Due to the short distance of the route which is 76nm, it causes additional stress on the engines, resulting in unscheduled maintenance..
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
airevents
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:03 pm

Just travelled on the Air Jamaica service from MBJ to London about three weeks ago and if a passenger figure of about 50 or so on an A340 is any indication of things to come, this service is not going to last long....
 
jm017
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:16 pm

Quoting Airevents (Reply 5):
Just travelled on the Air Jamaica service from MBJ to London about three weeks ago and if a passenger figure of about 50 or so on an A340 is any indication of things to come, this service is not going to last long....

Wow!!! The writing is surely on the wall. That's bad.


Anyone have some idea what their long-term plans are? Are they going to implement drastic changes in strategy? Will it be more of the same?
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
tymnbalewne
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 1):
If I'm not mistaking JM will sell the LHR slot to BA and code share with BA on the Jamaica/ London route this fall.

I wonder if this will mean a reopening of MBJ for BA or would all traffic be funneled to KIN?

C.
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AF022
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 4):
Due to the enormous loss and high operating cost, the management decided to cut the route and use the A340 on the JFK and YYZ route

Does this mean JM will keep the A340, or sub-lease them? Do they have the crew to perhaps even wet-lease them?
 
philb
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:48 am

This isn't the first ime they have pulled services to LHR. Their DC8 service eventually died through poor patronage and difficulties with paying the leases of the aircraft.
 
rdwootty
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:59 am

I was amazed when Iflew the MAN service A three class cabin for this route?? It was a disaster as the First was empty and the business was a third full. Y was bursting at the seams!! They did not understand that this route should have had a premium economy service ( in business seats with a Y service) and a Premium product call it what you will using the First cabin.
They stopped that route and I assume the same problem is with the London service ......They should sell the A340's to Thomsonfly and let them do the business.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 4):
Due to the enormous loss and high operating cost,

What enormous cost? Why are BA and various UK charter carriers able to operate profitably to Jamaica but JM can't from the UK? Is JM that inefficient?

JM should be able to operate more efficiently than BA due to its lower cost Jamaica-based crews. That JM cannot sustain this route, let alone be profitable, is astounding.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
aa1818
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 11):
What enormous cost? Why are BA and various UK charter carriers able to operate profitably to Jamaica but JM can't from the UK? Is JM that inefficient?

JM should be able to operate more efficiently than BA due to its lower cost Jamaica-based crews. That JM cannot sustain this route, let alone be profitable, is astounding.

Dude think about it. JM needs 2 a/c to operate this route. BA has about 200 aircraft that could operate this route. BA's international gateways enable better scheduling of a/c. JM is stuck in a rut. It makes no sense to have such a small international fleet for one route where yields aren't great and where competition with charter carriers are fierce. Add JM's higher cost structure. Higher manager/ aircraft ratio than many large airlines and you've got urslef a very unprofitable route. Logically you can't say that you don't see why BA can operate a route more profitably than JM. C'mon- it's plain as day...and I have't even listed all the factors that are there.

AA1818
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hummingbird
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:17 am

"JM should be able to operate more efficiently than BA due to its lower cost Jamaica-based crews".

I wish I could elaborate on this statement, but out of respect for a friend I wont!. The crew cost for JM is not low as the pilots have one of the most attractive packages in the industry.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
jm017
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 11):
What enormous cost? Why are BA and various UK charter carriers able to operate profitably to Jamaica but JM can't from the UK? Is JM that inefficient?

My very thought. But, I think part of the problem with JM is high overhead. As Hummingbird said above, their crews are very well paid. And specific for the LHR route (as someone else said above) is the frequent delays.

Another problem: low yields. They don't attract or market to high yield customers. The seek primarily the low yield passengers. As said elsewhere, this is the horse they are going to run with, sink of swim.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
mbj-11
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 am

I guess y'all waited for me huh.......lol. Ok, the one A340 might be used to service JFK and that route possibly cut down to one flight per day, due to the increased competition. (Board discussion....so it is said). One A340 unknown to many people had a crack in the wing which JM complained to Airbus about, but, because JM is a "small" carrier, constant maintenance was scheduled to ensure the airworthiness of the aircraft (don't sue me Airbus, it's true). The 757 according to our good retired CO patriarch now JM CEO is slated for June as its first run. (That's what he said, so we'll see if he's on the ball). A JFK-MBJ might be the christening route. The 737 was met with a firestorm by the JM pilots and engineers and was even questioned in regards to its age given the type of 737 to be used. Airbus is in talks with JM and as Jm-airbus320 (possibly the 1st Caribbean member of A.net) heard from credible sources the A320 is being forced upon JM with a better rate and the 319 as its backup in case (which they should take the 19's in my opinion).
LHR has never been a happy hunting ground for JM, BA and now VS, have always utilized their ruthless ability to kill off any prospects of growth. The EC is proving to be a very good area for JM so who knows, you may soon see a good 40% of JM's fleet in the EC's sky, provided management (which sucks and needs to lose some weight) can get its house in order like West Indies cricket should.
Last but not least, JM pilots get lets put it this way "damn good pay", they were on par with AA then went one better, but 3 yrs ago took a pay cut and still are ok. So trust me, they some heavy fella's.
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FLYACYYZ
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:26 am

Quoting JM017 (Reply 14):
Another problem: low yields. They don't attract or market to high yield customers. The seek primarily the low yield passengers. As said elsewhere, this is the horse they are going to run with, sink of swim.

As HUMMINGBIRD pointed out, there is some speculation (until their potential withdrawl), that the A340's would be re-routed to YYZ and JFK. Don't know about JFK, but can't imagine that YYZ has a higher yielding passenger base than LHR. Couple that with YYZ's extortionist landing fees for an A340. If they can't make money to LHR being one of the 'crown jewel' routes for most airlines, can't see them reversing their fortunes at YYZ.
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JAM747
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 15):
Airbus is in talks with JM and as Jm-airbus320 (possibly the 1st Caribbean member of A.net) heard from credible sources the A320 is being forced upon JM with a better rate and the 319 as its backup in case (which they should take the 19's in my opinion).

I thought one of the problems with having the A320s was that they did not have enough cargo capacity resulting in constant bagage left behind? I heard that the 757s leased from North American did very well with handling the bagage problem and is one reason why JM is considering some of their own. Do they still have the 757s North American?
 
jm017
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 16):
but can't imagine that YYZ has a higher yielding passenger base than LHR.

You're right about that. can't imagine a potentially higher yielding market than LHR. It also depends on the market in Jamaica. According to BA when they pulled out of MBJ, it (MBJ) is a lower yielding market than KIN. With the info you provided, I cannot imagine YYZ generating more revenue.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
caribbean484
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 4):
Due to the enormous loss and high operating cost, the management decided to cut the route and use the A340 on the JFK and YYZ route. Plans are in place to have a codeshare with VS who already operates a 747-400 to MBJ. One reason the London route failed is the low yields combined with the delays, I heard the cost associated with one delayed flight is astronomical. In my opinion there was no reason to have a three class service to London. Currently they offer First, Premium economy and economy class. The previous business class was converted to P.E to compete with VS. When you compare VS and JM based on service, JM unfortunately fails based on entertainment and inflight amenities. I love JM and I hope the future outlook is positive. I hope they look at competing on an international level rather than regional.

Very true. Everytime you are late for your arrival in LHR it cost an arm and a leg. JM and BW both served LHR poorly in recent times and people simply got fed up of it and since BA and VS offer better service so people will simply not put up with it anymore.
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yyz717
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:10 pm

The JM 343 has been subbing into YYZ more frequently recently. It's usually here every Wednesday. Not sure if this is a firm schedule though. The 343 is ill-suited for the JFK and YYZ routes. Too much aircraft.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 12):
Dude think about it. JM needs 2 a/c to operate this route. BA has about 200 aircraft that could operate this route. BA's international gateways enable better scheduling of a/c. JM is stuck in a rut. It makes no sense to have such a small international fleet for one route where yields aren't great and where competition with charter carriers are fierce. Add JM's higher cost structure. Higher manager/ aircraft ratio than many large airlines and you've got urslef a very unprofitable route.

Your arguments are more geared to excuses for JM, rather than valid reasons. There is no reason why JM could not operate a small efficient transatlantic operation. I suspect crew pay and the high-cost 343 is the problem, both of which are solvable problems.

Quoting JM017 (Reply 14):
Another problem: low yields. They don't attract or market to high yield customers. The seek primarily the low yield passengers.

Are there many high yield customers? Jamaica is racked by extreme poverty and violent crime. Not exactly the destnation for bankers.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 15):
BA and now VS, have always utilized their ruthless ability to kill off any prospects of growth.

I doubt it. Jamaica is such a small market, I bet BA & VS give little thought to JM. JM's problems sound self-inflicted.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jm017
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 20):
Are there many high yield customers? Jamaica is racked by extreme poverty and violent crime. Not exactly the destnation for bankers.

I must take issue with this statement's language and lack of, ahh thought. But I will simply state that one has nothing to do with the other. Airlines are governed by demand and yields. There isn't a consideration for the crime rate, as that usually does not affect demand, especially high-yield demand. Usually. As in under normal (non-anarchy) circumstances. And since I lack the references, all I can state is BA is able to attract enough high-yield passengers to maintain LGW-KIN.

Generally VFR and Business travellers are higher yielding passengers than tourists.

Sorry if i am touchy, but the comment just pissed me off.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
iadguy73
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting JM017 (Reply 14):
And specific for the LHR route (as someone else said above) is the frequent delays.

I wish they would axe the MBJ-PHL as well but I know it's just wishful thinking. That flight is a pain in the a**. It is often delayed, several times a week, and it can be as late as 0100 (sched 2125). So AJM has to pay a lot of money every time because the overtime pay for the Customs guys are billed to the airline. They should really schedule the flight for the afternoon. I wonder if anyone has the stats of on-time performance of AJM 045?
 
jm017
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting IADguy73 (Reply 22):
I wish they would axe the MBJ-PHL as well but I know it's just wishful thinking. That flight is a pain in the a**. It is often delayed, several times a week, and it can be as late as 0100 (sched 2125).

Let's see...my record on that flight is pretty bad. Once it arrived two and a half hours late (not bad actually) and the second time was just crazy....they combined it with the BWI flight and the flight was already very late when a bird badly damaged the engine when we were taking off. So we had to get another aircraft. I don't fault them for the bird destroying the engine, but I fault them for the carnival atmosphere at MBJ. And it was a pain having to get off at BWI, go through customs and immigration and then reboard the aircraft. Especially when you are not expecting this. Oh, and we arrived in PHL around 0030.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:40 pm

One of the biggest inefficiency within JM is crew scheduling. The structure of the hub is an additional burden as it means aircrafts will be on long RON and crew will have to accommodated in various destinations. The laws governing flight attendant hours and the influences of the trade union are major hindrances.
I had a long flight from DXB to JFK, upon arrival at EWR we were informed of a delay and we were accommodated with meals and offered free baggage allowance. We were the last commercial flight to depart at 1:30am with a 5am arrival in MBJ.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
FLYACYYZ
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AC//77W Being Fast-tracked Into Revenue Service

Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 24):
One of the biggest inefficiency within JM is crew scheduling

However they seemed to tackle this issue, by switching the YYZ operation from an overnighting aircraft to a KIN/YYZ/KIN turnaround, which is well within the parameters of crew legality, thus improving operating revenues on the route.
Above and Beyond
 
vv701
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 3):
Are JM's slots at a suitable time of day for US flights - if so I bet they will get quite a bit of money for them

I believe the flight is scheduled at LHR at 1430 hrs local and scheduled to depart at 1515 hrs. So one problem is what I think is a very short turnaround for a 340. This can have a severe impact on costs. For example, the cleaning team must be available to board if the flight is early or on time as well as if it is delayed. So JM will have to pay for the crew to stand around doing nothing whether or not their flight is on schedule.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 24):
One of the biggest inefficiency within JM is crew scheduling.

And the layover costs for JM (in London) are much higher than those for BA and VS in Jamaica.

As to how much the JM LHR slots are worth, if they are going to code share with either BA or VS the answer is that they are worth a lot but they will not get much (if anything except a slightly better deal) from their code share partner, particularly if they remain JM owned slots leased to BA or VS..
 
connies4ever
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Psimpson (Thread starter):
As you are probably well aware, JM are not in the best of financial health and the costs of operating the London service is proving too great.

Have they ever been in good financial health ? Even when AC were assisting JM during their startup years, it was bleeding red all over the place. Too much feather-bedding is my suspicion plus some simply wrong buisness decisions driven by national politics.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 4):
Due to the enormous loss and high operating cost, the management decided to cut the route and use the A340 on the JFK and YYZ route.

That's really good use of an A340 !! Not.

Quoting JM017 (Reply 14):
Another problem: low yields. They don't attract or market to high yield customers. The seek primarily the low yield passengers. As said elsewhere, this is the horse they are going to run with, sink of swim.

And what is the attraction in Jamaica for F/J pax ? Most North Americans look to volume tour operators to get the best deal they can. I assume ther Brits are pretty much the same. Operating a higher-cost a/c like the A340 for low-yielding traffic just does not make sense. A 763 would be a much better option.

To be blunt, my question is why does this airline even exist ? Is it national pride ? That' a hell of a burden to put on Jamaican taxpayers. Jamaica is well-served by other carriers from other nations. That does not cost Jamaicans a cent.

Apologies if I have offended anyone, which I surely have.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
jm017
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 27):
And what is the attraction in Jamaica for F/J pax ? Most North Americans look to volume tour operators to get the best deal they can. I assume ther Brits are pretty much the same. Operating a higher-cost a/c like the A340 for low-yielding traffic just does not make sense. A 763 would be a much better option.

You would be surprised. VFR passengers tend to be higher yielding passengers than the tourists JM caters to. There is also business traffic between Jamaica and places like MIA, FLL, BGI and POS (BW operates the relatively lucrative POS route). But you're right. In general the traffic to North American gateways is generally low yield traffic (New York, Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Toronto excepted). I sound like a broken record, but as long as JM continues to market for these customers, with their overhead (which they cannot seem to reduce) they will never make a profit.

I do think the 767 would be a good fit for JM's LHR route. The A340 is overkill.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 27):
To be blunt, my question is why does this airline even exist ? Is it national pride ? That' a hell of a burden to put on Jamaican taxpayers. Jamaica is well-served by other carriers from other nations. That does not cost Jamaicans a cent.

It is partly national pride (a mistake I think, but most Jamaicans look to JM with pride, and angst). Partly because the government feels JM bring revenue to the island. This may be true, but you are right: it (the airline) has become a burden on the Jamaica people. And the government unfortunately does not realise that relatively few people really profit from the island's tourism. It has been how long? And our economy is still in the gutter. How much have we really benefitted from tourism? How much have we advanced as a result? I take issue with the dependence on something as fickle as tourism for the island's economic well-being.

Anyway, the short answer to your (not offensive) question is, the airline exists to bring tourist to the island. They operate as a "tour operator" but with full-service airline expenses. This seems incompatible with profitability.

The cruel irony is that, though Butch Stewart no longer owns the airline, he benefits from its services more than the Jamaican people. Sorry, but this ticks me off.

But the argument has been made that without JM, the island would see substantial loss in numbers of flights. Especially KIN. I believe this to be true. Tour operators would fill in a lot of the void at MBJ.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
BCALBOY
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 24):
I had a long flight from DXB to JFK, upon arrival at EWR we were informed of a delay and we were accommodated with meals and offered free baggage allowance. We were the last commercial flight to depart at 1:30am with a 5am arrival in MBJ.

Srry but whats this got to do with crew efficiency ???
 
mbj-11
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting JM017 (Reply 28):
The cruel irony is that, though Butch Stewart no longer owns the airline, he benefits from its services more than the Jamaican people. Sorry, but this ticks me off.

But the argument has been made that without JM, the island would see substantial loss in numbers of flights. Especially KIN. I believe this to be true. Tour operators would fill in a lot of the void at MBJ.


True to everything. Its great that informed people who read or know little about JM's business and the leeches who unfortunately bleed it can make such firm statements about what they know so little about. The problem's that would exist with JM's demise (god forbid a complete closure) would be increased airfare to the island by AA, BA, NK,NW,US,DL etc. Why? Well for one, as with most Caribbean nations without an airline, foreign carriers tend to hold them to ransom in their dealings. Take little Dominica as an example.
Remember the Caribbean is a tourist destination so any region not served by a local carrier is vulnerable to foreign carriers schedules, AC size etc. Bahamasair was borne out of that. Crime and violence has nothing to do with the airline industry in the Caribbean if it did business would have ceased for the carriers.The region is not an economic center neither, thats why bankers basically are found flying on first world airlines in alleged first world cities.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
connies4ever
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 30):
Remember the Caribbean is a tourist destination so any region not served by a local carrier is vulnerable to foreign carriers schedules, AC size etc. Bahamasair was borne out of that. Crime and violence has nothing to do with the airline industry in the Caribbean if it did business would have ceased for the carriers.The region is not an economic center neither, thats why bankers basically are found flying on first world airlines in alleged first world cities.

You make a good point about being vulnerable to others schedules -- that is a risk.

I also agree that crime really is not an issue. It's a problem throughout the Caribbean -- and also the US, Canada, and Europe. The only place I can think where tourism really suffered from crime is Cartagena. It was popular in the late 70s/early 80s, then street crime got out of hand, so tour operators pulled out, and nothing happened for a few years until the government stepped in -- with a very heavy hand, if you catch my drift. I visited in 1986 and saw no evidence of pickpockets etc. They had been 'moved on'.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
aa1818
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 30):
The region is not an economic center neither, thats why bankers basically are found flying on first world airlines in alleged first world cities.

In a global sense- you are right. But in a regional sense, POS and SDQ are definitely powerhouses. Look at bank acquisitions, Insurance ownership, manufacturing conglomerates and multinational HQs. They speak volumes. Couple that with the 'black gold' and natural gas in POS and you've got urself a nice opportunity for MANY businessmen to fly in from all over the region including MEX, HAV, PTY, CCS, EZE, SCL, KIN, Belize, and the Southern USA.

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
luv2fly
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:18 am

The one problem I always have had with JM is consistency! It is really hit or miss and more so then other airlines. And lately it has been more miss then hit.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
jm017
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RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 30):
The problem's that would exist with JM's demise (god forbid a complete closure) would be increased airfare to the island by AA, BA, NK,NW,US,DL etc. Why? Well for one, as with most Caribbean nations without an airline, foreign carriers tend to hold them to ransom in their dealings. Take little Dominica as an example.

Ah, yes. This would be a serious problem if JM were to fold.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
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hummingbird
Posts: 1513
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 24):
I had a long flight from DXB to JFK, upon arrival at EWR we were informed of a delay and we were accommodated with meals and offered free baggage allowance. We were the last commercial flight to depart at 1:30am with a 5am arrival in MBJ.

Srry but whats this got to do with crew efficiency ???


It is in a new paragraph!...... I was referring to a delay experienced with JM. I already made my statement regarding crew inefficiency. Sorry if I was not clear.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 35):
It is in a new paragraph!...... I was referring to a delay experienced with JM. I already made my statement regarding crew inefficiency. Sorry if I was not clear.

You know this bunch. Looking for every grammatical, spelling, and punctuation error. It's a favourite pasttime.
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captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 30):
Well for one, as with most Caribbean nations without an airline, foreign carriers tend to hold them to ransom in their dealings. Take little Dominica as an example.

Grenada is another example. Foreign carriers particulalry those from from the US wanted the flights to be subsidized for ridiclously amounts of money from the standpoint of a small caribbean island. Thanks to airlines like JM we still have service to the US. GND-JFK is one of JMs most profitable destinations.

With regards to JMs recent drop in service standards, it is really a sad situation as things really wasnt that bad, however recently it all took a turn for the worse. Granted the airlines have never really been profitable but that terrible financial state is now affecting quite seriously its entire operation, driving passengers to the competition. I can't imagine using the A340s on JFK and YYZ routes to be a profitable venture. If London is axed the next move should be to rid themselves of the 340s. Yes they need more cargo capacity on those routes, but there are better aircraft options. The A340s would bleed them dry.
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hummingbird
Posts: 1513
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 pm

RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:07 pm

Back to the topic!

What do you think JM management should do in order to sustain this route?
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
jm017
Posts: 781
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:47 pm

RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Tue May 01, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 38):
What do you think JM management should do in order to sustain this route?

Hmm...the A340 seems like overkill. Wouldn't a 767 be ideal? Would it not be a good fit for LHR and routes such as YYZ and JFK?

I read elsewhere that JM's LHR route bleeds money. What does BA do to keep their route to KIN viable? Service and reliability. JM is seriously lacking in both, especially the latter. They also need to make their premium classes more appealing (i.e., more likely to be sold). Now, let me qualify this by saying I am NOT an aviation expert so i could be dead wrong, but some airlines sport an economy plus and business class while foregoing a first class cabin. I recommend this because selling out economy while first is unsold is not going to work.

So, my not-likely-to-work idea: replace the A340 with the 767, get rid of first and replacing with business and economy plus (in addition to standard economy), improve reliability (those 14 hour delays are unacceptable), REALLY work on customer service. Oh, and just focus on one city (either MBJ or KIN, probably the latter because of yields), just as BA has done. There are so many other options to MBJ that it dilutes demand I think. Besides, I think MBJ-KIN sectors are expensive to run and was a factor in BA cutting MBJ.

okay, now which parts are off the mark? Would this plan be enough?
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
caribbean484
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Tue May 01, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 38):
What do you think JM management should do in order to sustain this route?

Quiet frankly the management of JM needs to either make a drastic decision
1) Leave LHR and code share with BA or VS
2) Fly to LGW where it is cheaper to operate.
3) or keep the route.

If they choose the latter then changes must be made of their long haul structure. Like JM017 said they need to first change fleet, which will be expensive since the any other jet would be the twin jets that would require ETOPS.
They need to change their market perception and leave out first class, improve business, add premium economy.
Also, a drastic improvement in the all round service is needed in JM for is to truly succeed.
All ah we is one family
 
trintocan
Posts: 2786
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: Air Jamaica May Axe London Services

Tue May 01, 2007 9:28 am

So, what is really the matter with LHR now? First BW drops the route and codeshares with BA, now rumours that JM is to end service to the UK's premier hub! What is going on here?

Perhaps the problem lies in the market for these flights. The services to KIN and POS are mostly VFR which can mean reasonable yields but very seasonal returns, holiday times such as Christmas, summer and Carnival in POS being very busy but other times seeing lower passenger loads. The VFR market is actually quite loyal to the national airlines and only tends to shift should there be a manifest change (eg closure), so while the market is steady it is not really a growth market. Neither destination is much of a tourist market. Insofar as tourists are concerned, the issue lies with which sector of the tourist market a given destination appeals to. BGI has been very successful with upper-end UK visitors (plus it is the gateway to the exclusive Grenadines) so BA has been doing very well with First Class (and previously Concorde) on that route. MBJ does have some exclusive facilities but by and large it is a mass-tourist destination with special popularity with the US market, which is heavily distance-driven. It loses out on the price-conscious set of the UK market by being far more expensive than the Dominican Republic or Cuba for example. While JM may still fill a plane from LHR to MBJ with people on cheaper holidays the yields would be quite low. The real issues of Jamaica's high crime rate and perceptions of tourist harrassment also deter visitors.

Insofar as the business markets are concerned, POS has a fairly large business sector (larger than even KIN) but on the global scale still very small. Airlines would not rush to offer large numbers of premium seats to either destination as to, for example, SIN or JFK. While I have never flown JM trans-atlantic I have flown BW in First and the front end has been quite empty.

JM has had issues with being poorly-run and used by Mr Stewart to keep his hotel chains filled, hence their ambitious efforts to launch services to destinations hosting hotels (eg ANU) only to see the routes fail. While it has done well to make a name for itself and to liven its image it is losing too much money now. Perhaps its directors waited to see how BW fared before taking such a major step.

It is unfortunate that the English-speaking Caribbean's 2 major flag carriers are struggling so much but hopefully by restructuring they would survive.

TrinToCan.
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