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SailorOrion
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MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 1:27 am

Excerpts from a discussion at http://www.mucforum.de , the information is taken from LH's intranet.

Abbrevations:
DFS == German Air Traffic Control Company
FMG == Comany owning MUC airport

LH, FMG and DFS have start a cooperation in 2005 to optimize the airport's capacity.

personal translation of some parts:
"MUC is capable of handling hub-typical peaks with only 2 runways. Currently no other 2-runway-system in the world is capable of handling 90 operations per hour (note: CAT I capacity), or even 100 operations per hour should conditions be optimal."

"Currently the cooperation is running well enough so that even London Heathrow has officially selected MUC as a benchmark partner for their operations"

"A special challenge for MUC is an aircraft mix which consists of 16% Turboprops, a figure that is at 1% for LHR, causing problems for separations. This problem is dealt with by using mixed mode on both runways"

"Another means to increase capacity is load balancing on the departure routes: 'The first one to receive taxi clearance is not nessecarily the first one to depart'"

Now something for all the pilots:

"The DFS wishes to thank all the pilots for keeping runway occupancy times minimal and capacity as high as possible"

====

I still think that 90 ops/hour in CAT I conditions (and up to 58 landings/hour in CAT I) with 2 runways is quite impressive  Smile

SailorOrion
 
Marquis
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 2:19 am

It is really quite impressive that the ATC in MUC can handle 90 ops/hour (sometimes even up to 100 ops/hour in perfect conditions) and it is even more impressing to me that Heathrow selected MUC as their benchmark partner.
Riding the radials...
 
flyorski
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 2:21 am

Great News for MUC! That is a very impressive airport! I like the new terminal as well, makes connections very easy.
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Qantas744er
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 2:51 am

Respekt! Weiter so MUC Big grin

Incredible...90-100 flights an hour!!!

Now let's hope the third runway will go through  Smile and then making MUC most efficient 3 runway airport  Silly

Leo
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RDUDDJI
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 9:10 am

An AAR of 90 is quite impressive.

Quoting SailorOrion (Thread starter):
I still think that 90 ops/hour in CAT I conditions (and up to 58 landings/hour in CAT I) with 2 runways is quite impressive Smile

Did you mean something besides CAT I in the second part? Otherwise I'm confused.
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SailorOrion
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 3:40 pm

RDUDDJI:

90 ops/hour is landing + departures, the maximum AAR is 58 and maximum ADR is 58 as well (although not combined  Smile)

SailorOrion
 
stylo777
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 3:46 pm

I'm not sure, but I heard that FRA has only the capacity of 58ops per hour. is that right? in this case they would be miles away of MUC!
 
eyes2thesky
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 4:11 pm

I had the privilege of using MUC back in December '06. Took an LH A346 both coming and going. I distinctly remember how quick it was on arrival and departure. We arrived at ~6pm Saturday and went straight to the gate in about 4 minutes. On departure at ~3pm the next Saturday there was perhaps 10 minutes between engine start and takeoff roll. Much quicker than what I expected.

On landside, I thought it was very clean and spacious. Liked the viewing deck, too (complete with restrooms - I mean WTF? Can you imagine an American airport authority spending money to put restrooms on a viewing deck?). My only comment is that somewhere between the immigration booths and the taxi/shuttle-bus area there was a rather poorly marked door near the customs declaration area that we had to go through. It was not at all obvious that was the correct way to go, especially with the three grim-looking customs guards (with firearms) standing near the door. But then again maybe I was just in a stupor at the end of a 12h flight.

Anyway, loved Munchen. Go back in a heartbeat.
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SailorOrion
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 6):
I'm not sure, but I heard that FRA has only the capacity of 58ops per hour. is that right? in this case they would be miles away of MUC!

This is incorrect. FRA has (depending on time of day) an hourly capacity of 75-83 ops/hour, with an AAR of 41-44 and an ADR of 43-52. Still significantly less than MUC, especially the AAR.

Source: German Airport Slot Coordination

SailorOrion
 
mbj2000
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Thread starter):
"The DFS wishes to thank all the pilots for keeping runway occupancy times minimal and capacity as high as possible"

I still think that 90 ops/hour in CAT I conditions (and up to 58 landings/hour in CAT I) with 2 runways is quite impressive

SailorOrion

I was on a couple of turboprop flights in the last months and I was impressed every time by how the pilots were speeding down the runway after landing, you felt like in a sports car and almost heard the wheels screaming when cornering, this is what I call "Freude am Fahren"  Smile

Thumbs up for MUC!
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Thread starter):
I still think that 90 ops/hour in CAT I conditions (and up to 58 landings/hour in CAT I) with 2 runways is quite impressive

I should hope they can handle 90 flights an hour. Two runways should support 96 CAT I, 100 Marginal and 116 VFR. Add a widebody or two and it decreases by about 5-6%.

[Edited 2007-05-03 10:45:51]
 
SailorOrion
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 7:58 pm

VAPS are generally not done in Europe. Widebody share in MUC is around 7% so that's where the reduction is from.

Interesting to see that for example JFK has a maximum CAT I AAR of 48 (according to the FAA). Why's that?

SailorOrion

[Edited 2007-05-03 13:04:57]
 
cgnnrw
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting Eyes2thesky (Reply 7):
Liked the viewing deck, too (complete with restrooms - I mean WTF? Can you imagine an American airport authority spending money to put restrooms on a viewing deck?)

LOL  rotfl 

Hey, we're talking about Germany here. A country where you have to have a college degree in order to sort your garbarge before throwing it away......
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sw733
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 9:07 pm

I am always very impressed with MUC operations, they do a great job and keeping short connection times realistic. Not only that, but it's nice to know that when you have to fly out of MUC, you probably won't be delayed for any airport related reasons, such as overcrowding, rather weather or airline reasons (still a pain but...hey, 1 less reason to be delayed!).
 
SailorOrion
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 10:06 pm

Just for info. In Week 17 (23rd April to 29th April) MUC had 91.5% of the operations that FRA had, and for the first time breaking the 90% barrier. If things go on like this, MUC'll surpass FRA in the number of movements before the decade is out  Smile

SailorOrion
 
Toulouse
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 10:18 pm

Very impressed, yet I must say I have mixed feelings about MUC (haven't used it though for about 3 years though now). I unfortunately suffered some of my worst delays there which have probably wrongly clouded my views of MUC, yet it wasn't the fault of the airport.
Back in the 1990's I flew MAD-MUC-DUB a few times and really each time suffered the slowest and unfriedliest passport controls ever.
In 2004 on a flight from TLS to Florence via MUC, we arrived in quite late from TLS and had in theory missed our connection, but thanks to both the ease of transfer at the new terminal, and the excellent service offered by LH that day, we made our connection... I think I was only in MUC terminal for less than 10 minutes, basically we deplaned and were escorted straight to our flight which was already boarded and awaiting us (luckily there was quite a large number of pax transfering to this flight inbound from TLS, hence I suppose that's why they waited for us).
I also remember having a few great beers at a very pleasant bar there.
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SailorOrion
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Thu May 03, 2007 10:25 pm

Yeah, things in MUC haven't always been great, and the T1 was simply never really laid out for connecting traffic, a problem that has been remedied with T2 (which is much worse for O&D pax than T1). T1 is now about 95% O&D traffic.

SailorOrion
 
mbj2000
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Fri May 04, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 16):
Yeah, things in MUC haven't always been great, and the T1 was simply never really laid out for connecting traffic, a problem that has been remedied with T2 (which is much worse for O&D pax than T1). T1 is now about 95% O&D traffic.

 checkmark 

The first lesson of T2 is, don't check in with a paper ticket if you're going to fly LH... Or plan to be there 3 hours in advance...
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cloudyapple
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Fri May 04, 2007 1:09 am

For a generic-2-parallel-independent-runway airport:
3600s / (2.5Nm x 25s/Nm) = 57.6mvmt

58 is the theoretical arrival limit for all medium operations. No Heavies, no lighties (no VFRs).

You also need daylight, good vis and calm wind to make use of 2.5Nm spacings and a lot of cooperation from the pilots (to turn and keep their speeds as told, and get off the runway ASAP after landing).

The average quoted should be the daytime maximum achievable. The assumption here is it is run in absolute segregated mode (one runway strictly for arrivals, the other strictly for departures).

It is possible to land a few more on the departure runway without affecting departure capacity to boost the overall arrival rate to 64. This cannot be sustained for long periods of time tho. Only during peak arrival hours. These ones landing on the departure runway can be cleverly assigned to heavies when there is the demand.
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SailorOrion
Topic Author
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Fri May 04, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 17):
The first lesson of T2 is, don't check in with a paper ticket if you're going to fly LH... Or plan to be there 3 hours in advance...

Just don't check in in T2. LH (used to have?) has some Check-in facilities in T1. I don't use paper tix anyway  Smile

SailorOrion
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Fri May 04, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 18):
58 is the theoretical arrival limit for all medium operations. No Heavies, no lighties (no VFRs).

The peak arrival rate is considred a 60/40 split. This would allow an IFR rate of 58 arrivals and 38 departures/hr, a marginal rate of 60/40 and an VFR rate of 70/46 per hour and it's been done and is wholly sustainable from two independent runways. As I said, you lose 5-6% per hour from heavies. Its not uncommon.
 
SailorOrion
Topic Author
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RE: MUC Named Most Efficient Two-runway Airport

Fri May 04, 2007 3:57 pm

The thing is, you can't come in with an average of 2.5nm here. Most controllers seem to aim for about 2.8-2.9nm so that with inter-arrival error you get a minimum of like 2.6nm. Should you aim for 2.5nm, and even some very minor error would get the arrivals down to 2.4nm spacing, you, as a controller, would find youself covered in a lot of paperwork trying to explain the "loss of separation". Now throw in 16% turboprops and 7% heavies (and 57s) and you're nowhere near 58 arrivals on a single runway. Plus, as quoted above, MUC (or German airports in general) state their capacity always in CAT I conditions (which usually doesn't mean that the turnoff points are visible).

SailorOrion

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