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f9darol
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Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:31 am

It's here.....

This memo delivered to employees this morning:

Changes to Frontier’s California Operations

New Opportunities on the Horizon . . .



As many of you know, we entered the LAX-SFO “shuttle” market last year on June 29 with five daily flights between the two cities. You may also recall that we put a lot of effort into that market in order to raise visibility for what had the potential to be a profitable short-haul route amid some very significant (and larger) incumbent carriers.


As we approach the one year mark of that launch, we have made a difficult but necessary decision to discontinue that service starting July 10, 2007. The decision was not made lightly; we did everything we could (marketing efforts, changing aircraft type, tweaking schedules etc.) to try to create a profitable intra-California route. However, we seem to have reached both a fare and load factor plateau that leaves us short of our goals.


There are a number of mitigating factors that contributed to the July 9th discontinuation. Chief amongst them is the rising cost of operations at LAX which has roughly doubled on a year-over-year basis (you may have read about the battle between LAX and some of the LCCs that fly there regarding the skyrocketing fees). Those costs, combined with a competitive landscape that will likely include future LAX-SFO service from Virgin America (who is hubbed at SFO) and Southwest (who recently announced that they will be returning to SFO), made the timing all the more appropriate.



It’s important to note however, that while the LAX-SFO service is significant because it is our only point-to-point, non-Mexico, non-Denver service, it is truly no greater/worse than discontinuing any other service—something we actually do far less than most carriers. While some analysts/media might point to this as indication of our inability to operate outside of Denver or for that matter, within California , we must remember that we have some great non-Denver and specifically California point-to-point service right now. We recently launched San Jose and Sacrament to Cabo, which is doing well. And we have also seen very strong response to our San Diego to Cancun and Los Angeles to Cabo service.


Finally, on a brighter note, another reason for the change is the opportunity we see with our RJ service. We are in the final phases of making decisions about future E-170 markets based on the proposals we received from over 60 communities, some of which will get Q400 service, and some of which will be RJ markets. As we reviewed these opportunities it became clear that the E-170 aircraft we currently have flying LAX-SFO could perform much better for us in some of these new markets, or by adding frequency in existing markets that are growing. Remaining nimble and flexible is critical to our future success.



But growth, profitability and change don’t always address the human side of a decision like this. The leadership of Frontier has had many discussions regarding how to approach our Customer Service teams in LAX and SFO, and we want to ensure all employees that as always, we are committed to doing everything we can for those employees. We are certainly going to reduce our staffing in both LAX and SFO, and we have spoken to employees at both stations to communicate those plans. It is our sincere hope that we can find positions for those who want to continue their careers with Frontier and we will also try to address all the concerns/questions of those who are unable to continue working with us for whatever reason.



The bottom line is this—it is never easy to discontinue service. It impacts employees and customers alike. However, the LAX-SFO decision is paramount to our ability as we try to achieve consistent profitability. We encourage all employees to continue to look toward the future as we undertake some exciting growth and diversification with the launch of the Q400 service, enhancements to our RJ service and the on-going growth in Mexico and Central America .
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:35 am

Too bad, but can't say I am surprised. Was actually looking at flying this route in August, shame I won't have the chance.
 
as739x
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:43 am

Not surprised. I am actually non-revving to LAX this afternoon and its booked at 9 people out of 70. But this is to bad. Seems Frontier and Alaska are pulling back on inter-CA service. I thank Frontier for the time thy did this flight. It sure made working in LA, but being from SF easier.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
juventus
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:44 am

Competition, and the costs of doing business in California, Not surprised at all.

[Edited 2007-05-03 17:45:46]
 
travelin man
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:44 am

Sad for them but not surprising. Amazing how many "arm-chair CEO" a.netters were right about this one....
 
nzblue
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:47 am

I received this email in my in box this morning, as well, and thought it was a shame to read. I had a lot of fun flying this route back when it was all A319 services. I can recall a great enthusiasm shared with my fellow crew members with whom I flew on this route. I ended up liking it so much I bid to fly it (and was indeed awarded it) over the course of several months when it first started. I can't say I'm too surprised, either, sadly. Hopefully, the folks at F9 management will decide where to put the new Q400's/E170's soon (and subsequently announce this soon) so as to raise some new excitement within the F9 family.
It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
 
Delta787
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:49 am

Although this was expected, it still is sad to see it happen. To much competition on the route already.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:55 am

Incidentally AS has also dropped their 4 daily SAN/SFO effective October 2007.
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LAXintl
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 12:57 am

I was just about to post the news myself.

Frontier while brave walked into a market most of us agreed would never work.

Between not being able to move beyond its "introductory" $59 fares and offering "Fly 3 Get 1 Free" specials loads remained anemic at best.
Frontier simply failed to properly gauge the power United, American and SWA have in the California corridor where frequency and a very strong frequent flyer programs are king.

At least now they can take the pretty EMB170 and make use of it on market where Frontier can hopefully prosper.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:02 am

I never thought this would work, it made absolutely no sense. Now F9 has a couple of freed up planes to fly some more DEN markets....
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:02 am

Call me nuts, but doesn't Frontier fly LAS-SFO as well?
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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 10):
Call me nuts, but doesn't Frontier fly LAS-SFO as well?

They dropped that too.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
f9darol
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 10):
Call me nuts, but doesn't Frontier fly LAS-SFO as well?

 checkmark 

They do. When I have flown this route, they were a little more than half full, with a few being full because of an HP cxl or delay.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
They dropped that too.

Effective when? It's still bookable until at least July 23rd...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
f9darol
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
They dropped that too.

This hasn't been announced
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 13):
Effective when? It's still bookable until at least July 23rd...

By the end of June according to OAG
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ScottB
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
Too bad, but can't say I am surprised.

I can't say that I'm surprised, either; F9's January SFO-LAX load factor was below 30%. Even if they'd been operating E170's in January, it would have been around 50%. It is very difficult to succeed as a small competitor in a large, competitive market with entrenched competitors and customer loyalties. It's even more difficult when those competitors generally offer better schedules and comparable fares, and inflight products tend to be pretty similar on most one-hour flights.

Quoting F9darol (Thread starter):
It’s important to note however, that while the LAX-SFO service is significant because it is our only point-to-point, non-Mexico, non-Denver service

* except for SFO-LAS -- or is this being discontinued as well? That route had loads in the low 30's in January.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Incidentally AS has also dropped their 4 daily SAN/SFO effective October 2007.

That's not a big surprise, given that SFO-SAN is one of the most likely routes WN will operate when they return to SFO.
 
f9darol
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
* except for SFO-LAS -- or is this being discontinued as well? That route had loads in the low 30's in January.

As of now, this route will still operate.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting F9darol (Thread starter):
LAX-SFO service is significant because it is our only point-to-point, non-Mexico, non-Denver service

LIAR!
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nzblue
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 18):
LIAR!

LOL! I didn't even notice that one. I guess if it ain't advertised in Denver, even F9 themselves forget that they, too, fly SFO-LAS, which is also a point-to-point, non-Mexico, non-Denver service. I also noticed that in the newest edition of the Wild Blue Yonder magazine (May/June), the route map proudly displays the new DEN-MEM service, but failed to include lines connecting MEM to either MCO or LAS.

[Edited 2007-05-03 18:45:31]
It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting F9darol (Thread starter):
The decision was not made lightly; we did everything we could (marketing efforts, changing aircraft type, tweaking schedules etc.) to try to create a profitable intra-California route.

Bullshit about the marketing.

I live in LA, and I would never even know that F9 flies to SFO if I didn't subscribe to a.net. They did a piss poor job of marketing. I listen to two of the top radio stations out here, and never 1 ad. B6 has had ads, even Expressjet out of Ontario. Never F9.

If that's the "best" they can do, they are doomed...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
A330300
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:09 am

Agreed about the marketing - they did an awful job of marketing the new route. Some walking seats one day, a billboard on 101 another, and that was about it. College marketing? Hello? Even internally, we had people that didn't know we flew the SFO-LAX route.

Load factors never picked up - we are sending out planes with <10 people on the weekdays on every flight. The only time the route seemed to do well is on Fridays and Sundays (and not consistently, either). Good to see that the LAS service will stay - the loads have been fairly good on those, especially on the weekends.
 
flyboy7974
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:10 am

You know, can't say I'm surprised either, but, really wish this could have worked and made it. Honestly, Frontier's bad, little to no advertising, and I was just looking online again last night at flights, and certain flights that I know are flying the E170 are showing CR7, hard to sell clients on flights when we can't even provide the proper info because that's what we are supplied with.
 
alphascan
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
Bullshit about the marketing.

I live in LA, and I would never even know that F9 flies to SFO if I didn't subscribe to a.net. They did a piss poor job of marketing. I listen to two of the top radio stations out here, and never 1 ad. B6 has had ads, even Expressjet out of Ontario. Never F9.

If that's the "best" they can do, they are doomed...

Gotta agree with you Ike, outside of the DEN market, F9 has always had very ineffective marketing strategies. It is no wonder that up to 70%-given the month of year- of their traffic is DEN O&D.

However, the text doesn't say they did their "best", it said they did "everything we could". Which means they did everything they could with an inadequate marketing budget. They never seem to go into new markets with enough seats to justify large advertising expenditures. I remember when they started the LAX/SFO route last year they made a point of how they were going to use non-traditional, inexpensive, non-media marketing to support this route. Ted - remember him?-did similar marketing in the DEN market when launched but was also supported by a significant media campaign.

Someday, they'll learn. Maybe now that they will be opening so many smaller cities this year with the Qs and 170s, they will be able to afford adequate media buys in cheaper markets.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
Tuffer
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:21 am

Its been about a year now does anyone know how the YYC service is doing?
 
as739x
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):

They had a huge sign as you drove into LAX among other billboards around town. It was advertised better the other new routes, for sure.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:26 am

Short sightedness on behalf of managment here, this was going to be a loser from day one.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:36 am

Well, I never would have guessed.  sarcastic 

I'm a big fan of F9 and their product. I've always received great service & am a genuine supporter of the company, but I still say their decision making outside of Denver is atrocious. Just seems like they don't know where to go or what to do, but then again, I can't say I blame them.

Their lack of brand identity in the East and even the Midwest is astounding. Even in St. Louis where they do well (assumption), 95% of people don't know who they are. I've referred people to F9 on more than one occasion and they now only fly F9 regardless of stops going to the West Coast.

For F9 to make something work outside of Denver, they can't do this route cherry picking stuff. They need to go in guns blazing into a focus city and make a name for themselves. Running stupid shuttle routes with mass competition will not get it done.

Just my two cents.
 
atlaaron
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:50 am

What kind of fare increase will this cause on the route?
 
panpan
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:51 am

That's such a shame. Because it definitely resulted in cheaper fares from SFO-LAX across the board. I saw tons of ads for it in the financial district in San Francisco. I hope Virgin America does better. Because despite all the competition, SFO-LAX can be a surprisingly expensive flight.
 
Humberside
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 2:51 am

Has MEM-LAS/MCO also been axed?
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SANFan
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Incidentally AS has also dropped their 4 daily SAN/SFO effective October 2007.

Please quote your source Maverick'; I was not aware of this and I just checked AS's online timetable for Nov and Dec and I still see all 4 flights. The only change I see is a couple of the flights have reverted to their "off-season" non-daily frequencies.

Anyone from AS know what the LF on SFO-SAN has been like?

I too am sorry to hear about F9 pulling SFO-LAX. It was seen from the beginning as gutsy and a gamble but that's one thing I like about F9 -- at least they think outside the (DEN) box and try new things! I'm anxious to see what their next move will be.

bb
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
Please quote your source Maverick'; I was not aware of this

I've also heard from sources that AS will indeed discontinue SFO-SAN after the summer.

I'd say there is a high probably of SWA jumping on this route later in the year, as this was one the carriers main former SFO offerings.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
Please quote your source Maverick'; I was not aware of this and I just checked AS's online timetable for Nov and Dec and I still see all 4 flights.

OAG. Assuming it wasn't a mistake it should be out of most CRS/GDS by the end of this weekend.
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ikramerica
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 25):
They had a huge sign as you drove into LAX among other billboards around town. It was advertised better the other new routes, for sure.

Give me a break. You don't make your plans as you drive to the airport, and with most people parking offsite and taking a shuttle bus, they aren't reading billboards (you seat facing inside the shuttle bus). I've been to LAX 10 times since they started service, and I never noticed the billboard!

AA used to have a billboard at LAX telling everyone they flew to CDG. They don't fly there anymore, because a billboard at the airport just isn't enough.

Again, how about radio ads on KFI? KABC? Seems to work for their other advertisers. Or how about a TV ad of some kind on cable during shows that their customers would watch.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 33):
OAG. Assuming it wasn't a mistake it should be out of most CRS/GDS by the end of this weekend.

OK, thanks. I'm surprised it's still showing in AS's own online schedule at this point.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 32):
I've also heard from sources that AS will indeed discontinue SFO-SAN after the summer.
I'd say there is a high probably of SWA jumping on this route later in the year, as this was one the carriers main former SFO offerings.

I too am certain WN will re-enter the market WHEN they get back into SFO and VX has stated they will enter the market WHEN they ever get to it. But why is AS pulling out before any of that is confirmed? The market is strong UA-territory (and that currently is the only competition to AS) and Alaska must have figured it would take a while to get known in that city-pair...

Unfortunately I can't say I'm too surprised; they have a habit (in SAN anyway) of scheduling re-actively then pulling the service after a relatively short period of time. (YVR-service has had that history twice now from SAN as well as BOI-SAN on QX a couple of years ago.) Not real surprised, just disappointed in AS, again...

bb
 
dia77
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 30):
Has MEM-LAS/MCO also been axed?

Service hasn't even started yet. Begins May 12th I believe....
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting PanPan (Reply 29):
I saw tons of ads for it in the financial district in San Francisco.

Hush. It is an a.net commandment that there was not sufficient advetising.

I very much hoped this route would work for all sorts of reasons, especially when they swtiched the aircraft, but sadly, it is an old Broadway rule -

If you're playing to 500 people ina 1000 seat theater, the same show will get 250 people if you move to a 500 seat theater.

Ah, well, I wonder where they're going to send the E179's now?

mariner
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lightsaber
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):

I live in LA, and I would never even know that F9 flies to SFO if I didn't subscribe to a.net. They did a piss poor job of marketing. I listen to two of the top radio stations out here, and never 1 ad. B6 has had ads, even Expressjet out of Ontario. Never F9.

Ditto. And I've been to LAX quite a few times since service was initiated. Where is the Billboard?

Why aren't there more billboards? e.g., when B6 started service at BUR, they rented space on Billboards off Wilshire and other locations in the West Side. Did F9? If so, I never noticed them. For advertising to work, you have to have at least six to nine billboards throughout LA. Minimum. A few radio spots wouldn't have hurt either. (I do not think TV is economical except for the largest airlines.)

I do appreciate F9 making decisions on business. The reality of LAX raising fees probably is a fair reason too (cuts future profit expectations).

Now to see where the E-jets and Q400's go. That will be very interesting. Very Fast growth for F9...

Lightsaber
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ikramerica
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 37):
Hush. It is an a.net commandment that there was not sufficient advetising.

IN LOS ANGELES. Sorry, but I live here. I travel a lot. I drive a lot. I watch TV. I listen to the radio. There was almost no advertising that this route exists. I hear ads for other airlines. I see them. I didn't see anything for Frontier.

Dismiss that reality all you want, but it's reality. Not some myth...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
as739x
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 34):

Ok, chill out dude! Let not get our panties in a bundle and get so offensive. But there were sins around town for F9. And anyone picking up family or freidns could have seen the billboard as they left LAX. So I guess maybe AA and UA advertising in the entrance is a waste of money.

**By the way the board was on the west side of Supelvada abeam T-1.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 39):
Dismiss that reality all you want, but it's reality. Not some myth...

I can only say that I have received several emails from old chums in L. A. who know of my interest in Frontier - I used to live and work there, you may recall - saying they they had heard about the route through various ads. I had not asked them, I had not mentioned it to them.

So I don't deny your experience. I don't it is necessarily think it is the only experience, as we know, in SFO at least, from post #29.

mariner
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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 37):
Hush. It is an a.net commandment that there was not sufficient advetising.

Frontier *does* have a history of under-advertising outside of Denver.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 4:22 am

So here are my three questions..

What cities have applied for service?

What Central American cities is Frontier looking at? Will they be multi-destinations like CUN and Cabo?
Aiming High and going far..
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 4:26 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
Frontier *does* have a history of under-advertising outside of Denver.

That is a fair opinion. But it is odd then that SDF, for example, was gangbusters out the gate - from the SDF side. It isn't all DEN folk going back.

How did they get to hear about it?

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 43):
What Central American cities is Frontier looking at? Will they be multi-destinations like CUN and Cabo?

They have been negotiating with Jamaica for three years. They have mentioned Costa Rica several times.

They have applied for a blanket authority to serve all countries with hich the US has an Open Skies agreement.

mariner
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yellowtail
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 43):
What Central American cities is Frontier looking at? Will they be multi-destinations like CUN and Cabo?

CUN and Cabo are not in Central America.....try Mexico....ditto for the Above Jamaica comment....that is the Caribbean....eeessssshhhhh

AS for what routes...I suspect a a SJO-DEN might do well ...maybe even a GUA-DEN
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
nzblue
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 5:08 am

Here's the Denver Post story:

Frontier to end LA to San Francisco route

Frontier Airlines has once again admitted defeat in California.

The Denver-based carrier will stop flying its Los Angeles-San Francisco route effective July 10, just over a year after it started flying the route.

The California route was another attempt by Frontier to expand beyond routes that go to or from Denver or Mexico.

"We're just not getting the traction," said Frontier spokesman Joe Hodas. "We are smart enough and nimble enough not to lose money long term on a route just because of a pride issue."

Frontier's relatively small presence in California and the high expense of advertising in Los Angeles and San Francisco made it hard to get the attention of travelers in those cities compared to bigger national carriers. The airline tried creative marketing efforts, but "it's really tough in a market like San Francisco or Los Angeles to get yourself noticed," Hodas said.

It is Frontier's second failed attempt in California.

In early 2005, Frontier pulled out of a Los Angeles "focus city" effort that it started flights for in 2004.

In that effort, with flights from Los Angeles to Minneapolis, St. Louis, Philadelphia and Kansas City, Mo., heightened competition made it tough for Frontier to get customers, and flights ultimately flew with too many empty seats.

The Los Angeles-San Francisco route was supposed to be different.

But there have been indications of problems with the route.

Earlier this year, Frontier downgraded its Los Angeles-San Francisco route, offering fewer flights a day with some on regional jets operated by its new carrier, Republic Airlines.

The regional jets are smaller than the Airbus jets Frontier had been using on the route.

Chief executive Jeff Potter has also said the route has been slow.

The company feels it can better use those regional jets on other routes. Increased rent costs of operating in Los Angeles were also a factor, Hodas said.

More than 20 employees in Los Angeles and San Francisco combined will be affected by the ending of the flights. But Frontier will retain a presence in both cities, with flights to Denver and from Los Angeles to Cabo San Lucas.

Frontier's stretch into markets beyond Denver is seen as a way it can move beyond direct competition with Southwest Airlines in Denver.

Frontier had said it would be the only low-cost carrier flying nonstop between Los Angeles and San Francisco and that the San Francisco market was underserved in low-fare service.

Low-cost carriers often use smaller airports around San Francisco and Los Angeles.

But in February, Southwest announced it will begin flying into San Francisco. Startup Virgin America also plans to operate out of San Francisco.

"We knew going in it's a very competitive market," Hodas said. "Not only has that competitive landscape shifted a little bit, we see it shifting even more in the future with some new carriers entering the market."

In spite of the challenges the airline has faced in California, Hodas didn't rule out a future move into the market.

"Who knows, if the opportunity is right?" he said.
It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26574
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting F9darol (Thread starter):
(you may have read about the battle between LAX and some of the LCCs that fly there regarding the skyrocketing fees)

Oh what a joke. How can an airline with its main base at Denver of all places make such an idiotic statement

Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
and the costs of doing business in California

Which for airlines are among the lowest anywhere  sarcastic 

Quoting AS739X (Reply 2):
inter-CA service.

Intra  Wink
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
dia77
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 3:49 am

RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 26):
Short sightedness on behalf of managment here, this was going to be a loser from day one.

Short sightedness would be Frontier continuing to operate in the market after they realized it wasn't going to be profitable. If anything, F9 management should be praised for pulling out of a fight that they couldn't win. This flight was not going to be a loser from day one as you say if other conditions had not come into play (i.e. increase in fees at LAX, WN re-entering SFO, Virgin America getting approval). I seriously doubt that F9 would start a route without doing some major NPV and aircraft utilization analysis.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Frontier To Discontinue SFO-LAX

Fri May 04, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 47):
Oh what a joke. How can an airline with its main base at Denver of all places make such an idiotic statement

You mean you haven't heard of the battle regarding the fees at LAX?

???

mariner
aeternum nauta

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