Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
LH506
Topic Author
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 10:00 am

Hello,

I heard the other day that LH will restart in 2007 to fly FRA-BOG and in addition will extend one of its GRU flights to GIG and the CCS flight to Lima.
Can anybody confirm this and if so knows about starting date, frequencies and equipment?
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting LH506 (Thread starter):
Hello,

I heard the other day that LH will restart in 2007 to fly FRA-BOG and in addition will extend one of its GRU flights to GIG and the CCS flight to Lima.
Can anybody confirm this and if so knows about starting date, frequencies and equipment?

well heard the same for BOG (starting September...) btw what are your sources...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
AF086
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 12:35 pm

Quoting LH506 (Thread starter):
will extend one of its GRU flights to GIG

Heard such gossip awhile ago. That the MUC flight would be redeye both ways allowing conection at GRU for pax from MUC to SCL/EZE and pax from FRA/ZRH to connect at GRU bound for GIG. And, naturally, the other way round.

But still only rumours and they are getting weaker for the looks of it.

[Edited 2007-05-06 05:38:06]
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
DABVF
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:39 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 4:28 pm

New longhaul destinations such as BOG, GIG, LIM could be possible as LH receives 2 new A340-600 in August/September... I suppose FRA-CCS-BOG 3 or 4 times a week and FRA-CCS-LIM 3 times a week with A340-300 (or perhaps FRA-BOG 3x weekly and FRA-CCS 4x weekly and FRA-CCS-LIM 3x weekly) und MUC-GRU-GIG becomes daily A340-600. We will see...
In german forums we have no information yet...
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 4:37 pm

if the MUC-GRU would be rescheduled that it arrives at GRU in the morning around 05:30 (like LH502 and LX96) and than continues to GIG, this would be perfect. this will allow a lot of business at GRU bound for EZE/SCL/GIG - the most important cities in that area. the question is if there are aircrafts available for that operations at MUC?

FRA-CCS-LIM could do well as the flights to CCS aren't that full the year around.

for FRA-BOG I have no thought, but I don't think that there is so much demand for that route.


Seems that LH is looking for other opportunities to serve South America after they don't buy IB.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4113
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 6:26 pm

Quoting DABVF (Reply 3):
New longhaul destinations such as BOG, GIG, LIM could be possible as LH receives 2 new A340-600 in August/September... I suppose FRA-CCS-BOG 3 or 4 times a week and FRA-CCS-LIM 3 times a week with A340-300 (or perhaps FRA-BOG 3x weekly and FRA-CCS 4x weekly and FRA-CCS-LIM 3x weekly) und MUC-GRU-GIG becomes daily A340-600. We will see...
In german forums we have no information yet...

The question is how competitive such one-stop flights would be. IB obviously fly nonstop, but also AF/KL now operate nonstop to BOG and LIM respectively, so I guess that anything less than a nonstop wouldn't have much of a competitive edge for Lufthansa.
 
longhaul67
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:17 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 7:54 pm

I have been waiting for LH to return to GIG for some time now. In effect STAR has been without a premium European carrier to GIG for about 2 years now. Yes, I know TAP serves GIG, but their network is limited.

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 4):
if the MUC-GRU would be rescheduled that it arrives at GRU in the morning around 05:30 (like LH502 and LX96) and than continues to GIG, this would be perfect. this will allow a lot of business at GRU bound for EZE/SCL/GIG - the most important cities in that area.

A quick technical question: Would this mean that pax from the FRA flight bound for GIG would have to check in at GRU for their last leg? Since FRA is LHs main hub a lot of pax bound for GIG would probably still come via FRA
 
bsbisland
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting LongHaul67 (Reply 6):
A quick technical question: Would this mean that pax from the FRA flight bound for GIG would have to check in at GRU for their last leg?

I don't think so. CO, AA and UA connects pax from other flights to GRU on to their GRU-GIG leg.

PAX coming from EWR to GIG on CO flies CO31 EWR-GRU and connects on CO93 GRU-GIG (coming from IAH). No need to check in at GRU as passangers don't go through immigration at GRU, but only at the final destination.

[Edited 2007-05-06 14:22:14]
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 11:43 pm

If LH decide to fly to Bogota again, it would be great if they would extend it to Quito as they have done before, maybe with TAME operating the last segment? It would be great to have LH back at UIO. I can imagine TAME connecting to the LH flight with their new A320s. I think about a decade ago LH gave TAME two 727s to do the connection, but they've all crashed in the meantime. Maybe LH could give TAME one of their first generation A320s?

Soren  santahat 
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 4):
for FRA-BOG I have no thought, but I don't think that there is so much demand for that route

LH used to fly this route, but left it at the height of airlines crises in post 9/11, combined with a tough period for Colombia at the time, both security and economically wise. Things have changed though, and there is a buoyant economy and increased confidence. International travel has been growing at or around 15% month after month.

I do not really care if LH start BOG, for AV will start FRA at some point.

[Edited 2007-05-06 16:51:43]
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3875
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Sun May 06, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting LH506 (Thread starter):
I heard the other day that LH will restart in 2007 to fly FRA-BOG and in addition will extend one of its GRU flights to GIG and the CCS flight to Lima.

Welcome back LH!!!! It´s been 6 long years since you left BOG and LIM...

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 4):
for FRA-BOG I have no thought, but I don't think that there is so much demand for that route.

There is plenty of demand for BOG-FRA, im sure that 3x weekly A343 would do fine. Of course, they will face competition from AV on the route soon, but each will serve their own niche. LH could serve passengers originating in BOG that go to Germany and connect to Asia and Euro destinations, while AV will serve connecting pax from other South American destinations and O/D.

This is very exciting, hope the rumours are true though.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 10):
There is plenty of demand for BOG-FRA, im sure that 3x weekly A343 would do fine. Of course, they will face competition from AV on the route soon, but each will serve their own niche. LH could serve passengers originating in BOG that go to Germany and connect to Asia and Euro destinations, while AV will serve connecting pax from other South American destinations and O/D.

I think even LH could fill a daily A343 (of course step by step), it would be so great to see them back in BOG !!!
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
jfk777
Posts: 7474
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 12:51 am

The people of Bogota want anything to Europe. Lufthansa killed as their north and western Latin flights in the 1990"s, I've seen video of A340's landing in Quito. They returned to Caracas only but continued service to EZE, GRU and SCL.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 2:40 am

Well guys, i don't know about LH, but they lost several opportunities in South America and it's a fact.

Varig is looking to resume GIG-FRA effective June 1st daily with 763, an announcement should take place during the next weeks (in fact they should stop GIG-GRU-FRA in favor of GIG-FRA.... yes, they know about demand even better than us).

A one-stop service with stop in São Paulo will not bring so much traffic for LH as TP, IB, AF and now RG are looking to serve more GIG with non-stop services to/from Europe.

If LH wants to take part on the market, needs to be a non-stop service.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 10):
There is plenty of demand for BOG-FRA, im sure that 3x weekly A343 would do fine

I expect to see a BOG-FRA as well as a GIG-FRA service.

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 7):
I don't think so. CO, AA and UA connects pax from other flights to GRU on to their GRU-GIG leg.

UA just decide to run a non-stop IAD-GIG at the end of the year and will not offer tags during the IATA winter. CO seems to be the only one, and just the one with the better oil to oil route (IAH-GIG), and forces a stop.... DOT reports shows more than 50% of pax (including the higher yielding oil workers) goes to Rio.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
User avatar
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 9):
LH used to fly this route, but left it at the height of airlines crises in post 9/11, combined with a tough period for Colombia at the time, both security and economically wise. Things have changed though, and there is a buoyant economy and increased confidence. International travel has been growing at or around 15% month after month.

I do not really care if LH start BOG, for AV will start FRA at some point.

Not only that, but AV also operated it at the same time (they quit FRA as well).
Even though AV might start FRA again as well, it'd be cool to see LH again from a spotter's point of view, and might make for some interesting connections and competition.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 14):
Even though AV might start FRA again as well, it'd be cool to see LH again from a spotter's point of view, and might make for some interesting connections and competition.

Sure, I just worry that there might not be enough room for AV and LH, but at the current rate of growth, it should be OK.
I like LH actually, even if I felt abandoned when they stopped BOG a few years ago. Same goes for BA. it is because of that slight resentment that I would be happier if VS got in first.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 5:17 am

is an A333 capable for FRA-BOG or FRA-GIG? They could start service with 'small' equipment and if the demand is high they could switch to A343 or even A346?!?!
 
User avatar
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 16):
is an A333 capable for FRA-BOG

I'm positive that the A330 can fly FRA - BOG (but not utterly sure, correct me if needed).
I just don't know how penalized would it be while doing BOG - FRA due to BOG's altitude (and sometimes heat depending on the time of the day).

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 15):
Sure, I just worry that there might not be enough room for AV and LH, but at the current rate of growth, it should be OK.
I like LH actually, even if I felt abandoned when they stopped BOG a few years ago. Same goes for BA. it is because of that slight resentment that I would be happier if VS got in first.

Indeed. I still feel bad about BA leaving BOG and wish they return!.
(If VS ever did it'd be cool as well)
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 17):
I'm positive that the A330 can fly FRA - BOG

It was the question if the A 333 can do it. Most probably not. The A 332 which has much more range can do it. The 332 is a long-haul aircraft, the 333 rather a medium-haul.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 4):
FRA-CCS-LIM could do well as the flights to CCS aren't that full the year around.

that what be new, the flights are mostly packed, my mother does a lot of non-rev on the route with LH, it is always a wait till the last minute, as even often the flights are oversold...

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 4):
for FRA-BOG I have no thought, but I don't think that there is so much demand for that route.



Quoting 757MDE (Reply 17):
I'm positive that the A330 can fly FRA - BOG (but not utterly sure, correct me if needed).
I just don't know how penalized would it be while doing BOG - FRA due to BOG's altitude (and sometimes heat depending on the time of the day).

I am sure if we see LH back in BOG than only with the A340-300 as they would have very big cargo loads ex BOG (all the flowers) even now they are moving a lot of cargo ex BOG via CCS.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
User avatar
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 18):
It was the question if the A 333 can do it. Most probably not. The A 332 which has much more range can do it. The 332 is a long-haul aircraft, the 333 rather a medium-haul.

As per Airliners.net A333 info page the longer range A333 could do FRA - BOG (4907NM route distance as per the Great Circle Mapper vs 5500NM range of that version). Yet the standard A333 as per a.net again has only 4500NM range and wouldn't be able, and BOG - FRA would be another tale altogether I think.

Thanks for the rectification, I overlooked the question some.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
I am sure if we see LH back in BOG than only with the A340-300 as they would have very big cargo loads ex BOG (all the flowers) even now they are moving a lot of cargo ex BOG via CCS.

Is the cargo capacity difference between A330 and A340 so significative to warrant a change of type should the circumstances be as you say?
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 9:02 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 16):
is an A333 capable for FRA-BOG or FRA-GIG? They could start service with 'small' equipment and if the demand is high they could switch to A343 or even A346?!?!

Concerning to GIG, it's not possible, only the A332 can do this. May be GIG-FRA is possible because of dominant winds, but for sure FRA-GIG is not possible. RG use to fly non-stop GIG-FRA sometimes with a 777-200A, but on the way back to Rio, need a technical stop at REC or SSA.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 20):
Is the cargo capacity difference between A330 and A340 so significative to warrant a change of type should the circumstances be as you say?

well the cargo space is nearly the same... but the payload should be differente...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 10:05 am

LH only has the 333 and it has basically the same amount of seats as their 343. So they would certainly start BOG with a 343.
 
User avatar
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 22):
well the cargo space is nearly the same... but the payload should be differente...

Do you happen have any numbers?

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 23):
LH only has the 333 and it has basically the same amount of seats as their 343. So they would certainly start BOG with a 343.

That's what I thought on the beginning, and more now given the A333 facts aforementioned.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 3:25 pm

so that means that the A330-300 is not, but the A340-300 is capable for FRA-BOG or even FRA-GIG? How much is the range of an A333 compared to a B767-300? If I'm not mistaken, RG currently flies FRA-GRU with that plane.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 25):
How much is the range of an A333 compared to a B767-300? If I'm not mistaken, RG currently flies FRA-GRU with that plane.

About 5,500 nm for an A333HGW and 6,105 nm for a 763. From a payload range perspective, I presume the 763 still has an advantage over the A333 on FRA-GIG, which is 5153 nm still air distance. An A332 could probably do it, given that it has a bigger range than the 763 and A333. FRA-BOG would probably be a bigger challenge for an A333 because of the high altitude, though it seems AV is doing just fine operating the 763 on longhauls out of BOG.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 7:28 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 26):
About 5,500 nm for an A333HGW and 6,105 nm for a 763. From a payload range perspective, I presume the 763 still has an advantage over the A333 on FRA-GIG, which is 5153 nm still air distance. An A332 could probably do it, given that it has a bigger range than the 763 and A333. FRA-BOG would probably be a bigger challenge for an A333 because of the high altitude, though it seems AV is doing just fine operating the 763 on longhauls out of BOG.

well when AV is operating the 763 on the real longhauls to Europe (MAD, ALC, BCN) they have nearly 0kgs Cargopayload.... they have often eaven problem to accept courier cargo (express-envelopes) due the weight limitation...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 7:45 pm

Would be nice to see LH add BOG to its network. With being such a large city, BOG doesn't have that many n/s links to Europe (especially outside Spain)., and it would be good to see them set up shop there.
KL coming would be great too.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 27):
well when AV is operating the 763 on the real longhauls to Europe (MAD, ALC, BCN) they have nearly 0kgs Cargopayload.... they have often eaven problem to accept courier cargo (express-envelopes) due the weight limitation...

Is this so still even with the new engines? AV upgraded its 763 engines just recently from the PW4060 to the PW4062s, so that t could lift 3 extra tonnes or soout of BOG. But whether this extra payload is set off by passengers and their baggage ona full flight, I don't know..

About LH, I do expect that it would be A340 for BOG if they do choose to reopen that route.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 28):
KL coming would be great too.

No chance with AF flying daily BOG-CDG with a A343.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 29):
I do expect that it would be A340 for BOG if they do choose to reopen that route.

Just like AF does. It will be fun to see another aiirbi taking off from 13R, then turning right, instead of the usual north departure. I think they use ZIP1E instead of the ZIP1H departure, in case of a engine out, they can turn into BOG faster than the north departure.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 27):
well when AV is operating the 763 on the real longhauls to Europe (MAD, ALC, BCN) they have nearly 0kgs Cargopayload....

They just choose to have late departures to avoid hot conditions, and so they are offering more seats. I wonder where are the 762 flying these days?? They almost were exclusive for MAD flights....

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 15):
Sure, I just worry that there might not be enough room for AV and LH, but at the current rate of growth, it should be OK.

Im sure sure both can accomodate a 3x weekly flight. IMO, AV will restart LHR first, and then focus on FRA, but maybe LH will make Mr E take an agressive decision on this. For now, does AV enough planes to start a new european route?? Maybe dedicate a 762??

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 8):
Maybe LH could give TAME one of their first generation A320s?

I don't see a reason why they should do this...

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
I guess that anything less than a nonstop wouldn't have much of a competitive edge for Lufthansa.

At least for BOG, many high-yielding pax would not see a real plus for flying LH instead of taking either AF or IB, unless they're going to FRA, otherwise, no difference at all. Personally, I would prefer to fly with AF and the coneect to any german city thru CDG if I have at least PTVs, but if I'm flying to FRA, I just would take the long trip with a smile and try to sleep all the way....

I hope rumors become reality. Competition is always good for pax and Colombia's market can take the seats offer.


Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Mon May 07, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 22):
well the cargo space is nearly the same... but the payload should be differente...

Cargo space on the A343 is nor nearly the same. The A332 can offer 06 plt positions considering aircraft full of pax while A343 can offer 09 plt positions. For cargo, the A343 operating in BOG is better considering the profile of the existing cargo to FRA, specially cut flowers, which is volumetric.

The payload on an A332 would be around 12 tons while on the A343 around 16 tons but this flight would request space and not so much of payload.

Cheers,
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 30):
They just choose to have late departures to avoid hot conditions, and so they are offering more seats. I wonder where are the 762 flying these days?? They almost were exclusive for MAD flights....

They have 5 762s and 2 763 but a lot of destinations to serve. 762s still come to Spain. At the moment it's about 7 flights a week with 763s and 4 with 762s.

But that still leaves a lot of routes to be served with the 767s: Daily JFK, twice daily MIA, EZE (4 x weekly + 1 with 757), SCL (4 x weekly), MEX (daily mix with 757), LAX (3 x weekly), LIM (11 x weekly), GRU (daily, mix with 757) and CCS (usually 2 daily)

Not sure AV can squeeze any more European flights on the current fleet. Only way I see is if OceanAir get a second 767 and that is used to cover GRU flights, or some of them at least. It seems that OceanAir's first 767 will be used just for MEX starting June -with maybe MEX being tagged in September)

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 30):
Just like AF does. It will be fun to see another aiirbi taking off from 13R, then turning right, instead of the usual north departure. I think they use ZIP1E instead of the ZIP1H departure, in case of a engine out, they can turn into BOG faster than the north departure.

I had no idea that this was the procedure. Does IB do the same too? Does this also apply to the A346s?
So the joke about A340 managing to take off bacause the world is round, and airports have long runways is not far off the mark then!
Only the other day, I was told that A340s could not operate into Glasgow (in the usual take off direction anyhow) as it might not be able to clear a neighbourhood on a hill in case of problems!

Still, Good range and payload make it a good machine for BOG. I still hope that VS redeploys some of their in BOG too, as they keep getting brand new A346 one after the other.
 
User avatar
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 32):
I had no idea that this was the procedure.

Here they are... ZIP1E is more like MECHI1A (the one used mostly while flying to MDE) but then turning to ZIP VOR instead of flying to ABL NDB. ZIP1H is mostly straight to ZIP VOR after the turn.



If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 3:10 am

Hello J,

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 32):
I had no idea that this was the procedure. Does IB do the same too? Does this also apply to the A346s?

IB does the same maneuver. I was told by a QT Captain that they do this in case they don't have enough altitude in case of a eng out proceedure, they can head to an alternate airport, that cold be even a military Base, like Palanquero. In his opinnion, he said is more a double safety proceedure than anything else. OTOH, I've seen both AF and IB taking-off, and by far the 346 takes off with more "power" than the 343. Of course, I'm not an expert to prove this optical judment, and who knows payloads on both planes, but this is what I've seen. All 747s and DC-10s that take off, take the north departure ZIP1H, and fly over the city (Atlas Cargo, Cargolux, Kalitta, fot 747s and Cielos, Arrows, for DC10). This guy even told me that not even with their old DC-8s QT used to do that proceedure......who knows, they might just be afraid of high & hot conditions.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 32):
Only the other day, I was told that A340s could not operate into Glasgow (in the usual take off direction anyhow) as it might not be able to clear a neighbourhood on a hill in case of problems!

But nothing like takeoff from SXM.........that sharp right turn to avoid the hill.......creepy...

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 32):
Still, Good range and payload make it a good machine for BOG. I still hope that VS redeploys some of their in BOG too, as they keep getting brand new A346 one after the other.

IB seems to be very happy sending their 346 to BOG. Enough pax and cargo, and definetively a profitable route for them. I'm glad AV is sending their 763s to Spain, a rational decision to get as much as they can from their fleet.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 32):
twice daily MIA

Late flight uses a 757, at least I did in december.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 32):
CCS (usually 2 daily)

Evening flight is served with the plane that comes from JFK. Fast turnaround in CCS and ready to go back up north in the night from BOG. Fleet rationalization again from Mr E.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 33):
Here they are...

Andres, I might think he was talking about that proceedure specially for IB and AF. Right??

BTW, thanks for posting the charts, nice info for some that ignore SIDS and STARS in BOG.

Cheers


JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
User avatar
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 35):
Andres, I might think he was talking about that proceedure specially for IB and AF. Right??

BTW, thanks for posting the charts, nice info for some that ignore SIDS and STARS in BOG.

Hmm yes I think. I posted them for the topic to be clear for those interested in the discussion but not familiar with Colombian airspace.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 33):
Here they are... ZIP1E is more like MECHI1A (the one used mostly while flying to MDE) but then turning to ZIP VOR instead of flying to ABL NDB. ZIP1H is mostly straight to ZIP VOR after the turn.

Hey! Thanks a lot for this!
I was on an AF340 out of BOG last January, and whilst departing on the "long loop" departure, I was thinking back to a complaint on Wradio about Air Comet, in which the passenger was unhappy with the "technical conditions" of the aircraft, and how it had to go round Bogota like "thinking" whether it could carry on. Bless.

Whilst on the subject, today somebody complained about Air France having downgraded him from J to Y twice as business was full! The problem was about not getting the monetary diference for the change, but it made me think that with AF doing so well in Colombia, whether we could expect an upgrade of aircraft. But it is unlikely in the short term, as 772s would be limited out of BOG, less economy seas, but more business, and the 773 has first class and twice as many business. Maybe the deployment of a 747 twice a week or so (best no though, they're so cramped in economy! -A340, all is forgiven -untill the 777-300ER is justified)
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 37):
Whilst on the subject, today somebody complained about Air France having downgraded him from J to Y twice as business was full!

Well, I've always heard that AF does great in the route, but with premium pax, that's even better. I guess this is why a 3x weekly LH to FRA would perform great. One thing AV lacks is a bigger plane to serve MAD, because the route is almost full year round, same for IB and AF (I'm wondering about BCN....any numbers yet??).

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 37):
how it had to go round Bogota like "thinking" whether it could carry on

I know, I know. Last february, I was on a AV MD83 from BOG to CLO. On descent, the pilot turn 180 degrees and started climbing back, and headed back to BOG. The pilot announced that an accident had just happened in CLO's runway. A pax sit next to me started implying that the ac had a malfunction and that AV was irresponsible takng us all the way back to BOG, because probably they didn't had the equipment necessaty in CLO to deal with the problem......As it turned out, the crew was telling the truth, and we headed back to CLO a few hours later, unsurprisingly, in the same plane..... wink 

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 38):
(I'm wondering about BCN....any numbers yet??).

I cannot tell you about yield, but load factor is great! A few weeks back, an ALC based a.netter reported that the flight was overbooked for weeks ahead! Interestingly ALC is providing around 35% of the pax on the weekly BOG-ALC-BCN.
If those A330s materialise next year, performance should be even better with the increase in seats.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3875
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 32):
Daily JFK, twice daily MIA, EZE (4 x weekly + 1 with 757), SCL (4 x weekly), MEX (daily mix with 757), LAX (3 x weekly), LIM (11 x weekly), GRU (daily, mix with 757) and CCS (usually 2 daily)

MIA is only daily, CCS is only daily.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 37):
772s would be limited out of BOG, less

No they wouldn´t. An A330 would for sure be limited, though. Even the A332 has little problems with BOG, they have to be restricted if the day is sunny.

I think we will see AV add an extra 767-200 and a 757 to accomodate more flights to Europe (cough cough LHR and FRA)
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
they have to be restricted if the day is sunny.

This is why AV is sending their europe flights later in the evening, instead of the old timetable they use to have, which was around 4 pm. That schedule might be used too with the 330, thus less penalty to the plane.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 39):
Interestingly ALC is providing around 35% of the pax on the weekly BOG-ALC-BCN

Talking about a surprise.....I always thought that ALC would be a pain in the neck for AV, cost-wise, but this numbers prove that is propably paying for itself. Interesting indeed.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 39):
If those A330s materialise next year, performance should be even better with the increase in seats.

I only wish AV introduces AVOD from now on. They're moving in the right direction, but their product needs an upgrade to compete with regional counterparts such as LA.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Tue May 08, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
No they wouldn´t. An A330 would for sure be limited, though. Even the A332 has little problems with BOG, they have to be restricted if the day is sunny.

In that case I expect that AF will change BOG to a 772 and so increase its Business class offering, even if economy is slightly reduced.

However, the Airbus A330-200 can now benefit from PW's Advantage70 engines programme, that increases the efficiency and performance of the type, as announced last year at Fanborough. 12500 Kms max range with max pax. Obviously this will be reduced out of BOG, but still, if AV is said to have chosen the type, it must be for a reason!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
I think we will see AV add an extra 767-200 and a 757 to accomodate more flights to Europe (cough cough LHR and FRA)

I have a feeling that if as has been reported, A330s will arrive next year, then AV will have no apetite to incorporate any more 757/767s but concentrate on preparations to operate the brand new types, even if that means delaying new routes to Europe till then.

[Edited 2007-05-08 15:25:10]
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Wed May 09, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 42):
have a feeling that if as has been reported, A330s will arrive next year, then AV will have no apetite to incorporate any more 757/767s but concentrate on preparations to operate the brand new types, even if that means delaying new routes to Europe till then.

I think if this 330s thing is real (which I'm almost certain of), they can fly dedicated to MAD and leave all the 767s for new European destinations, which would only be 2: LHR and FRA, in that order.


JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
User avatar
tavong
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 1:59 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Wed May 09, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 17):
I'm positive that the A330 can fly FRA - BOG (but not utterly sure, correct me if needed).
I just don't know how penalized would it be while doing BOG - FRA due to BOG's altitude (and sometimes heat depending on the time of the day).



Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 25):
so that means that the A330-300 is not, but the A340-300 is capable for FRA-BOG or even FRA-GIG? How much is the range of an A333 compared to a B767-300? If I'm not mistaken, RG currently flies FRA-GRU with that plane.

Well the A330 (200 or 300) surely are heavy penalized at take off from BOG. The A340 are penalized but not has much has the A330s. Anyway there where few A332 operators out of BOG (Air Madrid, Some charter fligths from Iberworld). What I´ve heard there was a heavy penalization for those planes.

On other hands are the A330s for AV already confirmed.....will they be PW powered????

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Wed May 09, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting Tavong (Reply 44):
On other hands are the A330s for AV already confirmed.....will they be PW powered????

Not, but rumours are pretty strong, just like Dreamliners.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26566
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Wed May 09, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):

MIA is only daily, CCS is only daily

MIA is 2x daily 767, AV7 and AV9. In fact, this summer, Avianca will be 3x daily on MIA-BOG.

[Edited 2007-05-09 00:39:05]
a.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Wed May 09, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 46):
MIA is 2x daily 767, AV7 and AV9. In fact, this summer, Avianca will be 3x daily on MIA-BOG.

That's what I though. I did notice that this few days a 757 has been deployed for one of the flights. I guess are the usual substitutions due to maintenance.
Is this third flight going to be daily, and just for the busy few weeks of Summer? I did notice that they will also have extra BOG-MDE-JFK some days in July, but that is just for the busy season.
 
User avatar
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Wed May 09, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 47):
I did notice that they will also have extra BOG-MDE-JFK

Do you know the schedule of this second flight?

Little offtopic:

Does anybody know the flight number of the BOG - PUJ - BOG flight?

Thanks!
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
User avatar
SAOAP
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:29 am

RE: LH To BOG, GIG And Lima?

Wed May 09, 2007 8:59 am

Don't look now but there are definitely some interesting developments happening at LH which should be announced in due time  Smile

Cheers!

Marcelo
"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos