amirs
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No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 6:01 pm

I was very surprised last month when I flew on UA in First Class that they dont have a lounge facility for Domestic First Class Pax!

Is this true for all U.S. carriers?

i dont expect them to have a lounge in every airport, but I flew from LAX via ORD to LGA, and none of them had a lounge. Not even UA's hub ORD!!
I would have expected them to atleast have a secluded room with light refreshments and internet access/computers.
 
ANCFlyer
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No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 6:10 pm

Sure they have a lounge, you simply have to pay the membership fee. . . .

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):

I would have expected them to atleast have a secluded room with light refreshments and internet access/computers.

You expect WAY, WAY too much out of U.S. Flagged carriers.

Sorry.
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swiftski
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No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 6:18 pm

They do have a lounge for Red Carpet members at ORD. Could you not have gone there?
 
amirs
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
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No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 6:21 pm

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 2):

No, only for Int'l pax and FF members with status.
 
panamair
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No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is this true for all U.S. carriers?

One of the few exceptions I know of right now is with selected DL transcons (JFK-LAX/SFO/SEA/SAN/PDX/PHX, LAX-BOS, and some others), a First Class passenger (whether on awards or upgrades or regular revenue ticket) gets to use the DL lounges on both ends of the trip.
 
georgebush
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
You expect WAY, WAY too much out of U.S. Flagged carriers.

Sorry.

Thats for sure!

Why would you want to go into UA's Red Carpet Club anyways? You get in there and still have to pay 4 to 5 bucks for a drink, and pay for the internet. With the exception of it being a little quiter, there is really nothing special what so ever about that club!
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 5):
Why would you want to go into UA's Red Carpet Club anyways

I wouldn't, I prefer the Continental President's club.  duck  wink 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
amirs
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 8:44 pm

Its not that I want to go to the specifically to the Red Carpet lounge or the President's lounge.
I just wanted to go into something that is offered all over the world to premium pax, a quiet place with free internet access, some magazines/newspapers and water - would be enough.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 9:42 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 7):
I just wanted to go into something that is offered all over the world to premium pax, a quiet place with free internet access, some magazines/newspapers and water - would be enough.

This is not meant to sound rude, but if that's what you want, you should probably travel within Europe or Asia instead. As many have said, the US carriers are notoriously cheap and lounge access (and lounge amenities) are pretty thin. I'm an Admirals Club member, and the ORD lounge is one of their largest facilities. Drinks are pay-as-you-go (except for water, juice and soda), internet isn't free (AND you need to bring your own laptop) and the place always seems to be packed to the gills. Probably the biggest perk is the staff, who can quickly rebook you if your flight is canceled and save you a long wait at the regular rebooking desk. Still, if my company hadn't paid for my Admirals Club membership, I doubt I'd have paid for one myself.

Of course, at the Admirals Clubs in LHR, FRA, NRT, etc., the drinks are complimentary. US airlines are only competitive in places where they have to be - here at home, they're mercilessly cheap and offer very little in the way of comfort anymore.
 
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Stitch
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 9:43 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
Is this true for all U.S. carriers?

AS invites passengers on revenue and award (but not upgraded) First Class tickets to use their Board Room lounges, though they only have a few of them and most along the US West Coast (ANC, SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX).

They do contract with many CO, NW, DL and AA lounges systemwide, however only AS Board Room members are supposed to get access, though on occasion I have had luck getting the SEA BR agents to give me a complimentary one-day pass to use them on my return.
 
roseflyer
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 9:50 pm

I can't think of any airline other than Alaska Airlines that allows first class customers on domestic flights in their lounges. All of the network carriers charge an enrollment fee. UA did use to have dedicated lounges for free to its top tier 1K elites, but it ended that service a few years ago.

You do get lounge access on UA's premium transcon SFO/LAX-JFK routes.
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UAL4ever
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Tue May 08, 2007 11:39 pm

IT would be a disaster if every domestic first class passenger was allowed Red Carpet club access. I am a Red Carpet Club member and I know that especially in the hubs like ORD the club is generally fairly full as it is. If all first class passengers were allowed access as well there would be no room in the clubs. That being said they probably should have a seperate lounge for first class passengers who are not members.
 
UnitedFirst
Posts: 451
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 10):
You do get lounge access on UA's premium transcon SFO/LAX-JFK routes.

But only when seated in F on p.s. flights (as stated, SFO/LAX-JFK). Passengers are entitled to access either the Red Carpet Club or the United International First Class Lounge. (In fact, at JFK, the IFL's sole use now must be for p.s. F customers.)

Also, AA extends lounge access to full-fare F passengers traveling on SFO/LAX-JFK flights (American Flagship Service) – if I'm not mistaken, this was done as a response to UA's offer of the perk when p.s. was launched. Lounge access is for either the Admiral's Club or the Flagship Lounge.
 
LH423
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 11):
IT would be a disaster if every domestic first class passenger was allowed Red Carpet club access

As much as we love to bash our carriers in North America, this is probably the most spot-on answer yet. Logistically speaking, it would be nearly impossible to offer lounge access to every first class passenger travelling domestically in the US. At some airports it would be ok, but at a lot of the major hubs that would be nearly impossible. To level the playing field with other international airlines, DL or UA or AA would have to extend lounge privileges to all First class passengers ON TOP of all of people who pay for membership or status members of the respective frequent flyer programs that are entitled lounge access but may not be flying in a premium cabin.

Think about cities like Atlanta for DL or Chicago for UA or Dallas for AA and you start to see why these things have to be limited.

That said, the amenities offered inside the lounge is where the main difference between foreign carriers and domestic US carriers. Paying for drinks, paying for internet, etc are all concepts where the US airlines are way, way behind.

LH423
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Analog
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 13):
Paying for drinks, paying for internet, etc are all concepts where the US airlines are way, way behind.

(Does LH offer free WiFi in its Lounges?)
Perhaps for *A in the US, but others have free WiFi and booze (CO for example).

Anyways, F travel in the US is so much cheaper, on average, than C in Europe (i.e. empty middle seach coach) that, over a year, you might as well pay for the lounge.
 
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fbgdavidson
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 3):
No, only for Int'l pax and FF members with status.

Not even that....For the most part lounges are for international premium passengers (elites and J/F) plus members regardless of class of travel.


Quoting UnitedFirst (Reply 12):
Also, AA extends lounge access to full-fare F passengers traveling on SFO/LAX-JFK flights (American Flagship Service) – if I'm not mistaken, this was done as a response to UA's offer of the perk when p.s. was launched. Lounge access is for either the Admiral's Club or the Flagship Lounge.

Full F gives access to the Flagship Lounge at LAX and for the moment the Admirals Club at JFK. There is a Flagship Lounge in construction at JFK.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 13):
Logistically speaking, it would be nearly impossible to offer lounge access to every first class passenger travelling domestically in the US. At some airports it would be ok, but at a lot of the major hubs that would be nearly impossible. To level the playing field with other international airlines, DL or UA or AA would have to extend lounge privileges to all First class passengers ON TOP of all of people who pay for membership or status members of the respective frequent flyer programs that are entitled lounge access but may not be flying in a premium cabin.

Why would it be logistically impossible? European and Asian carriers manage just fine and they have less 'stringent' access policies. BA lounges for example are open to all passengers in Club Europe, Club World and First plus any oneworld Sapphires and Emeralds. That is a heck of a lot of people, especially when flying from say Terminal 1 International or Terminal 4 at LHR. As long as you have the right facilities (4 J, 2 F lounges plus the Concorde Room at LHR) there is no reason why you can't give access to all (paid) F class passengers, plus elites and international passengers.

Plus all the BA lounges I've been to kick anything the domestic US carriers offer well out of the park. Free alcohol, free sandwiches, decent magazines, nice surroundings. A few months ago I was flying United through Denver and my flight was delayed so I went to use the BA lounge in the neighbouring concourse then back to the RCC just before my flight. I knew there was a big difference but side by side, wow, even BA's distinctly average DEN lounge was a haven of tranquility and amenities away from the bustling and dirty RCC.

[Edited 2007-05-09 03:03:54]
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WesternA318
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
I wouldn't, I prefer the Continental President's club.

Amen to that...
 
jacobin777
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 8):
internet isn't free (AND you need to bring your own laptop) and the place always seems to be packed to the gills.

...that's actually incorrect.....the ORD Admirals Club does have a bunch of free work stations with hi-speed internet.......I've used it a number of times (when I'm not taking photos-which I prefer more.. biggrin  )...





now..if one wants, the Admirals Club at ORD also offers T-Mobile Hotspot for a fee....
"Up the Irons!"
 
AeroWesty
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
I would have expected them to atleast have a secluded room with light refreshments and internet access/computers.

It's a uniquely American thing because of anti-discrimination lawsuits in the 1970's.

Quoting http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=travel&res=9805E3D6163BF933A25753C1A964948260:

Designed primarily for business travelers, the clubs date from the 1930's, one of the first being American Airlines' Admirals Club, founded in 1938. The clubs remained relatively exclusive until the mid-70's when, after a series of anti-discrimination cases, the Civil Aeronautics Board issued rules governing them.

In an order dated Feb. 12, 1974, the board decreed that the carriers had the choice of opening the clubs to all people, or of opening them to all passengers or all passengers traveling in a particular class, such as first class, or of opening them to members of a club, provided that anyone who requested membership in the club and paid the membership fee, if any, could join. Certain exceptions were permitted: The lounges could be used by handicapped, elderly, ill or delayed passengers who were not club members and by eminent people and public figures whose appearance in a main waiting area might create a disturbance or by groups needing an assembly point.
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deltairlines
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 1:52 pm

Currently though, the way the lounges are in the US (I've been to several WorldClubs, US Airways Clubs and Crown Rooms and a few President's Clubs), if you invite F passengers in, it would be extremely crowded in many cases, especially the hubs, and there's not exactly a ton of space at several airports to open lounges which would be needed due to the influx of passengers using them. As a paying Crown Room member, these already get crowded enough in ATL and SLC in my experiences; add in F passengers and it'd be ugly.
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
I prefer the Continental President's club.

Invite me sometime!

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 11):
I am a Red Carpet Club member

WHY?! I dont see the point in PAYING to be able to get into a room to be able to PAY for a drink or PAY for internet access. You can get both of those in the terminal without the initial payment! The nicest feature I could think of would be that you have access to CSR's who are just there for RCC Members but sometimes they are even unavailable.

I flew Business Class (no first) on Qantas once, trans tasman, only because they screwed up my visa, but with that ticket we got to go into their Business class lounge and it blew me away! Free food! Open bar (serve yourself), frosted mugs, computer lab w/ internet the list goes on... It totally blew me away at the service you Aussie's get!! ITS NOT FAIR!
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
amirs
Topic Author
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 20):
I flew Business Class (no first) on Qantas once, trans tasman, only because they screwed up my visa, but with that ticket we got to go into their Business class lounge and it blew me away! Free food! Open bar (serve yourself), frosted mugs, computer lab w/ internet the list goes on... It totally blew me away at the service you Aussie's get!! ITS NOT FAIR!

Pretty much what the whole world gets, except for you Americans.  Sad
LY has a kick ass business lounge as well, with everything you mentioned plus spa treatements.
 
atlantaflyboy
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 8:36 pm

As far as amenities in US lounges go - Continental has free alcoholic drinks, light snacks and free wireless in all Presidents Clubs if I remember correctly, and Delta offers the free alcoholic drinks and snacks currently and will offer free wireless in all CRC by the end of 2007. I believe the Northwest lounges are comparable. AA and UA charging for alcoholic beverages in for-fee lounges is cheap, cheap, cheap ....... Part of the reason I am loyal to SkyTeam.
 
Mennix
Posts: 64
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 20):
It totally blew me away at the service you Aussie's get!! ITS NOT FAIR!

Tsss.... Even in US this is possible. I flew out a lot from LAX to AMS with KLM, using the World Club at LAX T2. It is quite disappointing. Some weeks ago I took AF First Class and was invited to the Air NZ lounge. You might believe it or not. A lounge in the States which corresponds to worldwide Standards. Free Drinks, regular dinner with a lot of choices, free W-LAN ...
 
BOAC911
Posts: 280
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 9:31 pm

The fact that drinks are not free in U.S. clubs (and we need to clearly differentiate here between the words "clubs" and "lounges") has something to do with U.S. liquor licenses, economic and cultural factors

And yes, U.S. carriers are somewhat skimpy, primarily because most U.S. travelers are unwilling to spend a lot of money flying. For U.S. airlines, the satisfaction of the shareholders is at the top of their priority list, along with customer loyalty.
 
deltairlines
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 10:08 pm

For me, as a Crown Room member, the biggest perk is the agents saving my behind when irregular operations occur. Instead of waiting in line at the gate to have them take care of me, I swing by the Crown Room and it's a lot less hassle. Other than that, I like that it's a nicer place to wait for flights, and to have a beer or two while watching the game (in a lot of the smaller CRCs, it's pretty easy to choose what you want to watch, which is great!). Is it an international-style lounge? No - the ones I've been in blow the Crown Rooms away. Is the Crown Room a major step up from the regular passenger experience though? You bet it is.
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Wed May 09, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Mennix (Reply 23):
You might believe it or not. A lounge in the States which corresponds to worldwide Standards.

I am convinced NZ if the best airline out there. Like you said, you can have a sit down dinner in their lounge! It would be unlike NZ to not have a lounge of their quality in the states! It just doesn't seem to me that all the extra free amenities would be really that expensive for UA or AA to add. I mean if they did add those they would get a whole lot more members who actually will pay the 400$ or 500$ a year, whatever it is to join...
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
WesternA318
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Thu May 10, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Atlantaflyboy (Reply 22):
As far as amenities in US lounges go - Continental has free alcoholic drinks, light snacks and free wireless in all Presidents Clubs if I remember correctly, and Delta offers the free alcoholic drinks and snacks currently and will offer free wireless in all CRC by the end of 2007. I believe the Northwest lounges are comparable. AA and UA charging for alcoholic beverages in for-fee lounges is cheap, cheap, cheap ....... Part of the reason I am loyal to SkyTeam.

I am Gold Elite this year on CO, and they tend to send us a few passes every now and then for the Presidents Club. But the other day, I was in SLC and the nightly SLC-EWR flight was delayed by an hour, and I needed to go change my connecting ticket. CO put me up in the Crown Room and then had my ticket changed, but it was my first time in 25+ years of living in SLC, that I had access to the CRC. A very nice club indeed!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Thu May 10, 2007 1:11 am

I am not sure that some of our European members quite see the scope of the domestic operations of a major US air carrier at a large hub. Most of them connect more flights at one hub than some of the European carriers operate total in their system.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 4):

One of the few exceptions I know of right now is with selected DL transcons (JFK-LAX/SFO/SEA/SAN/PDX/PHX, LAX-BOS, and some others), a First Class passenger (whether on awards or upgrades or regular revenue ticket) gets to use the DL lounges on both ends of the trip.

Are we sure they still do that? They definitely did when they offered a full BusinessElite schedule to LAX, SFO, and SAN but I didn't think they still did.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 13):
Logistically speaking, it would be nearly impossible to offer lounge access to every first class passenger travelling domestically in the US.

It absolutely would be impossible. Even if you include European traffic along with domestic UK traffic in Club on BA AND add BMI, pales in comparison to what just Delta connects in first every day at Atlanta or United at Denver or Chicago.

The clubs are already very, very full. Offering club services to all the first class passengers would not be possible at already overcrowded airports.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 20):
The nicest feature I could think of would be that you have access to CSR's who are just there for RCC Members but sometimes they are even unavailable.

They are godsends. They're experienced, and seem to be able to work their magic on anything you need.

Actually, the RCC is QUITE nice for early morning flights. You can get coffee, juice, yogurt, breakfast pastries, fruits. Pretty much everything you need to start your day when you are rushing out of the house at 5 to be on that 7:30 flight to somewhere. I'd honestly die without it sometimes, especially when I see the lines at the shops on the concourse. I am just not wired to be self-sufficient at 6 am.

Quoting Amirs (Reply 21):
LY has a kick ass business lounge as well, with everything you mentioned plus spa treatements.

Yes, for LY's extensive domestic route schedule.

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 24):
The fact that drinks are not free in U.S. clubs (and we need to clearly differentiate here between the words "clubs" and "lounges") has something to do with U.S. liquor licenses, economic and cultural factors

Not at all. They all used to offer it, and Delta still does or did until recently. I was living in Atlanta and flying Delta when they informed us they were going to stop doing so. The revolt from the member community was so loud that they reversed their decision QUICKLY.

NS
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Thu May 10, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 24):
The fact that drinks are not free in U.S. clubs (and we need to clearly differentiate here between the words "clubs" and "lounges") has something to do with U.S. liquor licenses, economic and cultural factors

I think it's just airline/club policy.

Free booze (must be 21 to be member)
NW
CO
AS
DL

Not free (must be 18 to be member)
US
UA
AA
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Thu May 10, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 29):
Not free (must be 18 to be member)
US
UA
AA

AA gives out free drink chits at the desk--I believe it's two per person when traveling on an international ticket.
International Homo of Mystery
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Thu May 10, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 30):
AA gives out free drink chits at the desk--I believe it's two per person when traveling on an international ticket.

How overly generous of American Airlines to do such a service for their International passengers!  snooty 
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Thu May 10, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 30):

AA gives out free drink chits at the desk--I believe it's two per person when traveling on an international ticket.

I was describing the policy for club members flying domestically. UA does the drink chit thing too, though I hear that it's hard to get the matrons to follow the rules and actually give you the drink chits.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: No Lounge For US Domestic First Class

Thu May 10, 2007 4:47 am

Not having lounge access for Domestic F is just the way US airlines operate. It's different is all.

Many of the European airlines that offer lounge access to their shorthaul premium passengers also don't offer full if any mileage/status accrual for inexpensive economy class flights. That's just the way they operate.

US airlines allow you to burn double mileage for FF ticket redemption and "force" your way onto a flight if there's no available 'standard' award tickets. European and Asia programs generally don't have this option even for their highest tier elite flyers.

Different regions have different "customs" in doing business.

Steve

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