SergioAEE
Topic Author
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:39 am

OA Fleet Renewal?

Thu May 10, 2007 9:27 pm

Hello to all,

I have been hearing rumors lately that OA is planning a fleet renewal. I have heard things such as CRJ's, B735, B738, A33x. I understand that there is no way the airline would actually buy or even dry lease any of these aircraft, so im guessing these would be wet, ACMI leases (even if they did occur in the future). Im very confused as to why OA let go of their B717 and why I am hearing so many rumors about a fleet renewal.

If anyone has any knowledge, facts, or even opinions on this, I would be more than happy to read them  Smile

SergioAEE
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Thu May 10, 2007 10:04 pm

I would think the 717s left because they only had a few and it wasnt worth keeping a small subfleet of them.

As far as the renewal is concerned - it all depends on what kind of backing the airline in its newest guise has. If the backing is sound then you'd be surprised how easy it is get financing for new fleet, or long-term leases from the major lessors. I would assume the ATR fleet is fine and probably doesnt need replacing at present. Do they still have their Dash 8's? Perhaps lose them in favour of more ATR42s to simplify things.

In terms of long-haul you want something to replace the A343 and A300-600R fleets that can do JFK non-stop year round without a payload hit - max MTOW derivative of the A332 would be ideal I would think, and replace both types nicely. Moving forward, the 787-8 would be even better. There are four A343s and a single A300 so we'll assume four new widebodies are needed with options on four more.

A320 or 737NG to replace the 737-300/400 fleet - dont see the need to downsize, but I'd suggest the 'babyBus has the edge here.

A320 and A332/787-8 to replace 737s, A300s, and A343s.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CYatUK
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:21 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Thu May 10, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
As far as the renewal is concerned - it all depends on what kind of backing the airline in its newest guise has. If the backing is sound then you'd be surprised how easy it is get financing for new fleet, or long-term leases from the major lessors. I would assume the ATR fleet is fine and probably doesnt need replacing at present. Do they still have their Dash 8's? Perhaps lose them in favour of more ATR42s to simplify things.

Correct but do not confuse the fleet of Olympic Aviation with that of Olympic Airlines. All the above actually belong to Olympic Aviation as did the B717s (Despite the fact that they operated flights for Olympic Airlines).

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
A320 or 737NG to replace the 737-300/400 fleet - dont see the need to downsize, but I'd suggest the 'babyBus has the edge here

Indeed, with Aegean moving to A320 family, a move from B737 to A320 would be wise plus OA could do maintenance for Aegean if they operated similar plane types.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
I would think the 717s left because they only had a few and it wasnt worth keeping a small subfleet of them.

Yes and No  Smile They were initially purchased for the Aviation fleet to fly internally however with the demand for more mainline capacity, they were "chartered" internally and were flying to nearby destinations like LCA.
 
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OA260
Posts: 23756
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Thu May 10, 2007 11:05 pm

I would like to see A320's for Europe and Mid East and A330 or 777 for the long haul routes and keep the A340 on the LHR route which is still OA's prime route.
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
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RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Thu May 10, 2007 11:17 pm

Didn't they have a load of 737NGs on order at one time???
 
cambrian
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:45 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:04 am

Why on earth would OA want to replace their A340 fleet? They are not that old and more than up to the job. I also thought that the Dash 8s were a relatively recent addition to the Olympic Aviation fleet, and were younger than their ATR fleet?

Looking at the 737 fleet, can we expect a mix of the A320 family to replace them?
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting Cambrian (Reply 5):
Why on earth would OA want to replace their A340 fleet? They are not that old and more than up to the job. I also thought that the Dash 8s were a relatively recent addition to the Olympic Aviation fleet, and were younger than their ATR fleet?

They are fuel-guzzling nightmares and no airline has ever made a profit with them - its actually illegal to do so. They are Stone Age inefficient and any airline operating them clearly has no idea how to run an efficient operation.  Wink
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
cambrian
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:45 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
They are fuel-guzzling nightmares and no airline has ever made a profit with them - its actually illegal to do so. They are Stone Age inefficient and any airline operating them clearly has no idea how to run an efficient operation.

Thanks for telling me! I had better let Lufthansa, Air France and Swiss know about this! Did you also know that OA has managed to reduce its fuel bill by running the A340's on a mixture of retsina, olive oil and ouzo?  Smile
 
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OA260
Posts: 23756
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Cambrian (Reply 7):
Thanks for telling me! I had better let Lufthansa, Air France and Swiss know about this! Did you also know that OA has managed to reduce its fuel bill by running the A340's on a mixture of retsina, olive oil and ouzo?

LOL....  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

What a shame to use all that good Ouzo!!!! That is just the funniest thing ive heard in ages...thanks
 
anax
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:20 pm

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Cambrian (Reply 7):
Thanks for telling me! I had better let Lufthansa, Air France and Swiss know about this! Did you also know that OA has managed to reduce its fuel bill by running the A340's on a mixture of retsina, olive oil and ouzo?

LOL @ cambrian


They can't switch their DHC-8 fleet to ATR 42. Some islands can't handle the ATR (runway wise) , so the Dash is very much needed. (i.e. Kastelorizo , Milos , Paros)

The ATR and Dash fleet are of more or less the same age. Built around early 90's , so they are quite old , and definitely need to change. The Q400 would be a perfect change for the ATR 42/72 fleet , plus they would have the advantage of common fleet since they have to keep the STOL DHC8-100. Infact , at some point almost 2 years ago a Q400 made a short visit to ATH , for demo to OA execs , but they decided it was a very expensive aircraft , regarding the vaery bad financial situation they company undergoes.

The 319/320/321 family would be perfect for their shor/medium haul fleet if they decide to get rid of their ageing (also built around early 90's.) And IMHO they are much more customer friendly planes than Boeings.

A 333/332 subfleet finally would grant them bigger flexibility , even new routes.
They could be used to LHR/CDG/LCA (currently OA's cash cows) , upgrade DXB with extention to BKK (OA still holds traffic rights for the DXB-BKK segment).

BUT , never forget that OA is a public run airline. So there is no thing like "they should". Conclusions are yours....

anaxA
( a big big OA fan).
god is a spotter!!!
 
SergioAEE
Topic Author
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:39 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 1:51 am

The ATR's that OA has are also ancient! they are very old birds! the A300-600 is still around because the crew's of this aircraft has some sort of deal with the airline that they must keep the aircraft, until they retire.

The Dash 8's that OA has were leases from a German airline ( i cant remember its name) and are pretty old, however it is difficult for OA to replace this aircraft simply because of the small amount of runway it needs to land. Destinations such as Lero, Kastelorizo, Kasos etc... ONLY the Dash 8 can land there, and ATR's (even the ATR43's) struggle.

Also let me bring to your attention that most domestic routes that the ATR's and Dash 8's fly are subsidised by the government.

SergioAEE
 
kaneporta1
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:22 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 6:24 am

I do agree with what most people say here.
My more simplistic view is:

ATRs to be replaced by Q400s
737s to be replaced by A319s, A320s and A321s just like A3 is doing.
A340s and A306 to be replaced by A332s. The 787-8 would be a perfect replacement but at the moment OA probably can't afford it. Maybe even some 787-3s for the LHR and CDG runs would also do...
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting Cambrian (Reply 7):
Did you also know that OA has managed to reduce its fuel bill by running the A340's on a mixture of retsina, olive oil and ouzo?

LMAO...Icouldve used that Olive Oil in tonights Spanakopita THANKYEWVERYMUCH!!
 
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OA260
Posts: 23756
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Fri May 11, 2007 5:53 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 12):
Icouldve used that Olive Oil in tonights Spanakopita

Nah I prefer Tyropita!!!

I think proberbly thinking about it A320's for Europe and A330's for Long Haul.
 
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Embajador3
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:28 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Sat May 12, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
They are fuel-guzzling nightmares and no airline has ever made a profit with them - its actually illegal to do so. They are Stone Age inefficient and any airline operating them clearly has no idea how to run an efficient operation.

Well, if the A340s are so crappy and inefficient, why Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Lufthansa, Iberia, Swiss, Finnair, China Eastern, Cathay Pacific, LAN airlines, Aerolineas Argentinas...(etc) all have a great number of A340s in their fleet? also, why most of these airlines make a profit?
We all know you are not an Airbus fan, however, you must respect everybody's opinion and ONLY speak for yourself.

Flying Together
Embajador3
Flying Together
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Sat May 12, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Nah I prefer Tyropita!!!

Good ponit..god I mis walking through the streets of Trikala and eating the stuff early in the morning..
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3800
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Sat May 12, 2007 10:08 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 15):

Good ponit..god I mis walking through the streets of Trikala and eating the stuff early in the morning..

I think I'm the only greek who doesn't like spanakopita or tiropita.

Now give me some tzatziki and dolmades and lets call it a day!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
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OA260
Posts: 23756
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: OA Fleet Renewal?

Sat May 12, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):
I think I'm the only greek who doesn't like spanakopita or tiropita.

Now give me some tzatziki and dolmades and lets call it a day!

OA should have a special meal on their list !!! GKML (Greek Meal ) lol... Big grin

Consisting of all the above washed down with some Mythos beer!!!!

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