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SailorOrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Thu May 10, 2007 11:37 pm

LH appears to add another MUC-EWR flight (LH460) for the winter schedule. This appears to be an additional flight to the existing MUC-EWR with BBJ. Schedules and times for existing flights are to be changed.

The new flight is to be operated by an A330-300, while the existing MUC-JFK will be downgraded to A330-300 (from A340-600) as well.

This means 3 daily (2 daily on saturday) flights to NYC. The additional FRA-EWR is to be discontinued (apparently)

Lets hope it stays that way  Smile

SailorOrion
 
behramjee
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Thread starter):
while the existing MUC-JFK will be downgraded to A330-300 (from A340-600) as well.

downgraded???
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 1):
Quoting SailorOrion (Thread starter):while the existing MUC-JFK will be downgraded to A330-300 (from A340-600) as well.
downgraded???

LH 340-600 = 303 seats
LH 330-300 = 221 seats

http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html/ueber_uns/flotte/index.html
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
dallasnewark
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 2:05 am

Why would the discontinue EWR-FRA?
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
LHUSA
Posts: 834
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 3):
Why would the discontinue EWR-FRA?

They wouldn't. Only the second EWR-FRA flight (LH483) would be dropped - it was added last summer. LH403 will still remain.

I think it's a great idea to put mainline on EWR-MUC. It will finally mean non-stop Y-class from EWR to MUC.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 726
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 2:15 am

Ah, I wonder if CO regrets not atleast giving the route a 757?
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting Tpaewr (Reply 5):
Ah, I wonder if CO regrets not atleast giving the route a 757?

The few extra miles to MUC compared to other airports seeing CO's B757W's will make a reliable operation difficult; EWR-MUC (or especially MUC to EWR) is on the edge of a B757W's range.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
philipj
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:09 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 3:06 am

While I often fly EWR-BSL through MUC on Luthansa (much preferred over flights through FRA), they always timed the MUC-BSL connections very well (30-45 minutes) with the EWR-MUC leg, as typically ~ 1/2 the plane makes the transfer. The retiming of these flights (depart Newark at 15:40 and 20:25 to arrive in Munich at 5:45 and 10:10) makes sense, they need to fix the connections from MUC-BSL - the BBJ flight currently has a 1:40 layover until a flight to Basel, while the A330 flight has a 5:35 layover until a flight to Basel. Going from BSL-MUC-EWR, the scheduled layovers are 1:05 and 2:55. If they can fix these connecting schedules to Basel, I can see these flights doing very well in the Business cabins.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 3:07 am

i wouldn't hold my breath expecting three dailies on MUC-NYC. perhaps the BBJ will be put on a different route?
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 3:12 am

What will be the departure/arrival times of these flights?
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 4:37 am

Well, the flights is already loaded into Amadeus.

Let's sum up the nonstop MUC-NYC flights for the next winter schedule:


MUC-EWR BBJ:


Lufthansa (LH 412) Operated by another airline
dep: 09:15- Munich (MUC) terminal 2
arr: 12:55 - New York (EWR) terminal B
daily except Sat

Lufthansa (LH 413) Operated by another airline
dep: 15:40 - New York (EWR) terminal B
arr: 05:45 - Munich (MUC) terminal 2
daily except Sat


MUC-EWR "LH mainline":


Lufthansa (LH 460)
dep: 15:15 - Munich (MUC) terminal 2
arr: 18:35 - New York (EWR) terminal B
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330-300
daily

Lufthansa (LH 461)
dep: 20:25 - New York (EWR) terminal B
arr: 10:10 - Munich (MUC) terminal 2
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330-300
daily


MUC-JFK:


Lufthansa (LH 410)
dep: 11:15 - Munich (MUC) terminal 2
arr: 14:30 - New York (JFK) terminal 1
equipment varies (note: UA codeshare flight says op'd by A333)
daily

Lufthansa (LH 411)
dep: 20:15t- New York (JFK) terminal 1
arr: 10:05 - Munich (MUC) terminal 2
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330-300
daily


Great news!  bigthumbsup 
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4113
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 2:44 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Thread starter):
The additional FRA-EWR is to be discontinued (apparently)

Additional mailine capacity on Munich - New York was long in the making, but given the introduction of new flight numbers for the new EWR flights, I presume that the second daily FRA EWR rotation will be resumed next summer, rather than being discontinued altogether. In the past, when LH has moved flights from FRA to MUC or vice verse, the airline has mostly left the flight numbers unchanged, unless a route change was involved.
 
DALCE
Posts: 2016
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 8:28 pm

good news! Another gateway for cargo aswell!
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Thread starter):
The additional FRA-EWR is to be discontinued (apparently)

don't you mean the additional FRA-JFK (LH406) flight?
 
TurkishWings
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Can someone please summarize the long haul flights of LH ex MUC please? And all MUC long haul flights are operated by Airbus equipment only right?
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
SailorOrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 14):
Can someone please summarize the long haul flights of LH ex MUC please? And all MUC long haul flights are operated by Airbus equipment only right?

Currently:

A34D: (8/60/234)
MUC-JFK
MUC-SFO
MUC-ORD
MUC-PVG
MUC-LAX

A34P/A34Q: (8/48/164 and 8/36/192?)
MUC-BOS
MUC-YUL
MUC-PEK
MUC-NRT
MUC-HKG
MUC-ICN-PUS (3/7)
MUC-GRU

A33M: (8/48/165)
MUC-IAD
MUC-CLT

BBJ: (0/48/0)
MUC-EWR (6/7)

I hope I didn't forget any

SailorOrion
 
jfk777
Posts: 7470
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 9:42 pm

It seems finaly Munich is no longer the junior hub for Lufthansa. Its finally an equal hub to FRA. I'm still waiting for a Munich to Miami flight, when they did operate such a flight briefly a few years ago it was with a 767 from either Condor or Lauda Air. It didn't work, why the half hearted effort then ?
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Fri May 11, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 16):
It seems finaly Munich is no longer the junior hub for Lufthansa. Its finally an equal hub to FRA.

Just because they're getting a second EWR flight? Hardly... FRA is, and will remain, LH's major hub. MUC probably will continue to close the distance a bit, but equal? No.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
DALCE
Posts: 2016
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Sat May 12, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 16):
It seems finaly Munich is no longer the junior hub for Lufthansa. Its finally an equal hub to FRA

MUC is not even close to FRA, the amount of widebodies based at MUC is far less than FRA.
FRA has all the 744's , besides a considerable amount of 333's, 343's and 346's.
LH is closing the gap slowly, and it wil be interesting where the 747-8i's and A380's will be based. Most probably all of them will end up at FRA, although we might see a couple of 748's being based in MUC.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 834
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Sat May 12, 2007 6:10 am

The EWR schedule are not finalized just yet, so expect some more changes to be announced soon.
 
mk777
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:48 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Sat May 12, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 15):
Currently:

A34D: (8/60/234)
MUC-JFK
MUC-SFO
MUC-ORD
MUC-PVG
MUC-LAX

A34P/A34Q: (8/48/164 and 8/36/192?)
MUC-BOS
MUC-YUL
MUC-PEK
MUC-NRT
MUC-HKG
MUC-ICN-PUS (3/7)
MUC-GRU

A33M: (8/48/165)
MUC-IAD
MUC-CLT

BBJ: (0/48/0)
MUC-EWR (6/7)

I hope I didn't forget any

You did forget the daily MUC-DEL flight which also is opearted with an A343, though i don't know if its D, P or Q?? you can help me there.  Smile
come fly with me
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Sat May 12, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 20):
You did forget the daily MUC-DEL flight which also is opearted with an A343, though i don't know if its D, P or Q?? you can help me there. {Smile}

IIRC the A34D is actually the new 3-class A346.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
SailorOrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Mon May 14, 2007 5:34 pm

MUC is equal to FRA on a continental scope (actually, MUC has more European departures by LH than FRA has), but intercontinentally (does this word even exist?) FRA has about 3-4 times as many departures.

on topic, I'm not sure whether the BBJ will still be operated when an A333 is also put on that route...

SailorOrion
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 22):
on topic, I'm not sure whether the BBJ will still be operated when an A333 is also put on that route...

Amadeus still shows the BBJ flight.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 23):
Amadeus still shows the BBJ flight.

but shouldnt they use the BBJ not even better on a new route?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 22):
intercontinentally (does this word even exist?)

Yes, it is!

If only we Americans were as good in foreign languages as y'all are at ours ...
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 23):
Amadeus still shows the BBJ flight.

it happened before, that information in the CRS is not withdrawn immediately, whether for regulatory, commercial or technical reasons. i have no clue, if anything like that applies here, still i would be very surprised if LH kept the BBJ on that route.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
but shouldnt they use the BBJ not even better on a new route?

my thoughs exactly!
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 26):
my thoughs exactly!

but what route ??? thats my big question? is there any high business demand ex MUC were we still do not have a A340/A330 flight?

or maybe the aircraft could be transfered to MUC in order to fly a dedictated business route from FRA to LAD ???

or start a new flight ex STR, HAM, HAJ, NUE or TXL to the US ???
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
but shouldnt they use the BBJ not even better on a new route?

Does anybody know, how long the contract between LH and PrivatAir is running and how quick LH could get out of it, should they decide that the a/c is no longer required ?

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 26):
it happened before, that information in the CRS is not withdrawn immediately, whether for regulatory, commercial or technical reasons. i have no clue, if anything like that applies here, still i would be very surprised if LH kept the BBJ on that route.

The double service to EWR from winter 2007/2008 on looks rather solid to me; flights are seperated by about 4 hours giving travellers useful options. All flights can be booked.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 27):
or start a new flight ex STR, HAM, HAJ, NUE or TXL to the US ???

I don't think that any of these airports would warrant a 6pw all-business class service to the U.S.
On the german side, it should be an airport with some feeder traffic in order to maximize the catchment area, thus eliminating HAJ and NUE from your list.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):

but shouldnt they use the BBJ not even better on a new route?

I don't think that this will happen. But if this happens than I suppose IAD would be the next destination, because IAD is after EWR the 2nd most profitable route in their current network.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 29):
I don't think that this will happen. But if this happens than I suppose IAD would be the next destination, because IAD is after EWR the 2nd most profitable route in their current network.

with already 2 flights ex MUC and 5 ex FRA ,maybe it would be an option ex DUS
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 27):
but what route ??? thats my big question? is there any high business demand ex MUC were we still do not have a A340/A330 flight?

Surely BOM, but LH might start this route with its own equipment as there seems to be a high demand for cargo space on this route.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
SailorOrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: LH To Add Another Daily MUC-EWR

Tue May 15, 2007 11:03 pm

Afaik there are not sufficient rights for MUC-BOM before 2008, but I might be mistaken ...

SailorOrion

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