Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
miller22
Topic Author
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 3:10 am

http://www.th3scoop.com/story.php?id=252

The FAA is trying to charge $25 for every flight other than small piston engines. I think this is a good idea, for the most part. From one view, an airplane is an airplane, to ATC (except heavies, of course), but from another view, on a unit-cost basis, the small operators are going to be hit with a much higher cost than the big dogs.

My question is does this include all VFR traffic as well?
What if they don't enter controlled airspace?
What will this due to the small operators down in Florida and The Keys who barely make $25 a flight, anyways?



"The FAA says [General Aviation] provides only 3 percent of the financing for the air-traffic control system, yet it accounts for 17 percent of its use."

Interesting statistic...
 
BigAppleCoder
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:30 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Miller22 (Thread starter):
My question is does this include all VFR traffic as well?

By definition, VFR is not under ATC control.

The Airlines are portraying it as rich corporate users in their Gulfstreams taking advantage of poor airline customers, but like most issue, it's not quite that simple.

The problem with user fees is once the framework is implemented then it can grow out of control. First it starts with a $25 fee, then the next year it grows to $50, then 2 years later $100 and so on... Then they justify adding fees for other services such as weather briefings. Once that's done then most VFR pilots living on a shoestring will skip out on it with potentially detrimental results. It's hard enough scraping the funds together to fly nowadays with the cost of fuel, insurance, etc. any additional fees would just push more people out of GA and dry up the source of future pilots.
 
miller22
Topic Author
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 3:39 am

Isn't this a big step towards privatizing ATC? Once you start charging per flight, its only a matter of time before you've exceeded tax revenues by these new per flight fees. Of course they won't lower taxes to compensate, and passengers will all be complaining about the $2 increase in ticket fares.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2174
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Miller22 (Thread starter):

I generally think this is the right move. You get more efficiency out of a system when you charge what it actually costs to provide that service.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4120
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting BigAppleCoder (Reply 1):
By definition, VFR is not under ATC control.

That would depend on where you are flying VFR! Any VFR flight that you are required to be talking to or have an clearance to be in the airspace you sure are under air traffic control.  Smile

Quoting Miller22 (Reply 2):
Isn't this a big step towards privatizing ATC?

Sort of like what is going on with the Flight Service Stations and Lockmart?
 banghead 
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
larspl
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting BigAppleCoder (Reply 1):
By definition, VFR is not under ATC control.

by definition is your statement only valid in some air space classes.
atc is also airport tower, and vfr traffic does need a take off clearance on controlled airports.
facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
 
tommytoyz
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:08 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 4:17 am

So how much will it cost to collect the fee and implement and administer the program? More government is not the answer.

However, if this is started, then ATC fees should be charged by aircraft weight categories, like in Europe in some cases and landing fees at most major airports. 200 passengers in a pax jet all benefit from the ATC service, so they can all split the cost of the beneficial service amongst themselves.

Small light aircraft should be exempt from any fees as ti would kill general aviation and all the benefits to the economy and counrty infrastructure that would be far more costly than the measly fees collected.
 
TeleBlue
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:34 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 5:01 am

The cost of collection is very little. Today, FAA runs an overflight fee program for flights that originate in Canada (for example) and terminate in Mexico. These flights utilize US ATC resources, but aren't charged under today's tax laws. As such, FAA designed the overflight fee program to capture those operations, and asses them a charge.

Say what you will about the program (it was rather controversial when initially deployed) but one thing about it is that it is managed by just two people at FAA. It is automated, it is cheap to run and it sends easy-to-read bills to the users.

As to the other points, VFR / Piston flying should be exempt from all of this...
 
BigAppleCoder
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:30 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 4):
That would depend on where you are flying VFR! Any VFR flight that you are required to be talking to or have an clearance to be in the airspace you sure are under air traffic control.



Quoting LarSPL (Reply 5):
by definition is your statement only valid in some air space classes.
atc is also airport tower, and vfr traffic does need a take off clearance on controlled airports.

VFR flying can be performed completely free from ATC. Provided you take off from an uncontrolled airport and avoid controlled airspace you are not subject to ATC.

You are quite correct in saying that if a pilot operating an aircraft under VFR wishes to transition controlled airspace (e.g. Class B or C or take off and/or landings from a controlled airport) then contact with ATC must be established and permission granted to do so.

Quoting Teleblue (Reply 7):
As to the other points, VFR / Piston flying should be exempt from all of this...

Yes, *should* be...but historically when a body has been given authority to collect a levy they tend to expand the scope of the levies.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4120
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FAA Says GA Should Pay More For ATC

Sat May 19, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting Teleblue (Reply 7):
As to the other points, VFR / Piston flying should be exempt from all of this...

Agreed
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos