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Beaucaire
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Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Mon May 21, 2007 5:02 pm

Aftere the take-over of LTU, Air Berlin is still hungry.
Following financial reports (in German) the airline is now putting their eyes on Condor.
That would cement their second ranking in Germany and leverage their strategy clearly as future network-carrier.
With more than 100 additional planes on order, Air Berlin could play in the big-boy's leage.

http://www.aktiencheck.de/artikel/analysen-Nebenwerte-1532330.html
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LAXspotter
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Mon May 21, 2007 5:15 pm

What is Air Berlin's Current fleet order at? What is the number of their current fleet excluding LTU jets? If im not mistaken, Air Berlin nowdays is basically the 737-700, 738 and the A319 and A320 correct?
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Beaucaire
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Mon May 21, 2007 5:19 pm

Their current fleet is a mix od 737 and A32's (Air Berlin ) plus the A330 in the LTU fleet.
Current total fleet is 119 aircraft -Condor has 36 aircraft (14 A320's ,9 Boeing 767's and 13 x 757-330 )
Open orders of Air Berlin are nearly 100 aircraft (mix of 737 and A 320 )
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LHBSL
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Mon May 21, 2007 5:38 pm

Hi Beaucaire

You have forgotten Belair; they were bought by Air Berlin some weeks ago... (AFAIK 1xB767 & 2xB757)

Regards Chris
 
OHLHD
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Mon May 21, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Aftere the take-over of LTU, Air Berlin is still hungry.

How do they finance all that? I do not believe they have that cash.  Smile


My 2nd question is: How can AB buy all those airlines without the EU having a word on it in terms of competion etc.
 
columba
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Mon May 21, 2007 11:08 pm

Well, that is scary. I really hope AB is not growing too fast and collapse.
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findingnema
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Mon May 21, 2007 11:45 pm

Would Air Berlin consider buying carriers outside of the German speaking world such as a smaller airline in Scandinavia or the UK to bolster their growth in these markets?
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Beaucaire
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting LHBSL (Reply 3):
You have forgotten Belair; they were bought by Air Berlin some weeks ago... (AFAIK 1xB767 & 2xB757)

I think they only took 49% in order not to lose the trafic rights of Belair.

Quoting Findingnema (Reply 6):
Would Air Berlin consider buying carriers outside of the German speaking world such as a smaller airline in Scandinavia or the UK to bolster their growth in these markets?

yes they certainly would consider -see belair which is a Swiss airline.
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LHBSL
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 7):
I think they only took 49% in order not to lose the traffic rights of Belair.

This could be; nevertheless the get stronger and stronger at ZRH with this deal. Even a scheduled longhaul Operation out of Switzerland is now possible under the Air Berlin-Brand... (as with LTU out of Germany...)
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 3:53 am

such rumors are recurring in German media. also, there are lots of indications that the MD of Condor, Ralf Teckentrup, will succeed Hunold at the helm of AB. Hunold would then step down and helm the supervisory board of AB.
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LTU932
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 4:46 am

I have my doubts about this. German Antitrust Authorities will have to intervene, because AB already acquired one major German airline and is probably as big as ever.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Humberside
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
German Antitrust Authorities will have to intervene, because AB already acquired one major German airline and is probably as big as ever.

Depends on how you view it:

You could take a wider view and argue that this will create a major competitor for LH, especially with long haul, and that it will create a stronger LoCo in the European market to compete with FR/EZY

Or you could view it as reducing competition in the German market as you say
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 7:50 am

In the industry I have also heard stories that last year Hunold tried to buy HAPAG Lloyd (TUIfly), but that there was no agreement on the price. Together with Condor this would mean that, except for little Germania, Hunold would control almost all of Germany's charter market. I doubt that the Kartellamt (GGerman anti-trust agency) and the EU will permit this, similar to Ryanair's takeover bid for Aer Lingus.

Jan
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PADSpot
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
German Antitrust Authorities will have to intervene

 checkmark 

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
because AB already acquired one major German airline and is probably as big as ever.

After acquiring DE AB would enjoy absolute dominance on the important Germany-Spain market. Reason enough for the authorities to block that deal ... or al least force AB to give up traffic rights, slots etc ...
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 4:20 pm

But the current situation regarding Condor is completely without future ..
LH doesn't care about Condor any longer and Thomas Cook don't have a focus on airline-business but on tourism exclusively.So the airline has to be bought by a company with sole focus on air-transport.
Other than Air Berlin and TUI there are not really any other players in that business -segment in Germany.
And I don't see a foreign airline taking over Condor- the fleet is relatively old and the 767 need to be exchanged rather sooner than later.
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LTU932
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 13):
After acquiring DE AB would enjoy absolute dominance on the important Germany-Spain market. Reason enough for the authorities to block that deal ... or al least force AB to give up traffic rights, slots etc ...

True. Over the years, AB has acquired not just LT but also DI, and have a very fat share of those Germany-Spain routes, the perhaps most important ones going to PMI. I mean, isn't the acquisition of LT enough for AB?

Personally, I expect objections by LH and perhaps even FR (which has a sizeable operation out of HHN and soon also BRE) to this deal at the Kartellamt, and I doubt LH will just let DE go just like that (they still own a major portion of DE's shares, right?).
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Joost
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
Personally, I expect objections by LH and perhaps even FR

I doubt it will have a big effect, as AB and Condor together will still be smaller than LH. Perhaps they need to give up some slots (like LH+LX needed to give up some FRA slots), that might only apply to MUC: how is MUC on slot availability?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Air Berlin Put's An Eye On Condor...

Tue May 22, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 16):
ersonally, I expect objections by LH and perhaps even FR

I doubt it will have a big effect, as AB and Condor together will still be smaller than LH. Perhaps they need to give up some slots (like LH+LX needed to give up some FRA slots), that might only apply to MUC: how is MUC on slot availability?

LH and AB cater to different markets. LH is a mainline airline, flying scheduled all over the world and competing as such directly with BA, AF etc.. AB is a charter airline, making deals with travel agencies and tourism companies for package tours etc.. With taking over Condor and maybe TUI, AB would be the only charter provider in Germany.

Jan
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