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JasperEMA
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:59 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:46 am

I know its just like an apprenticeship of old, 3 or 4 years of crap money until you learn the ropes but these figures seem so low , people have still got to live(i think that would be under the min wage in the UK) As the old saying goes "pay peanuts get monkeys "  Wink
 
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asuflyer05
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting Superfreak (Reply 42):
But unless Skybus has an accident, or someone is not given proper medical treatment, or a fire is not contained, or a drunk passenger goes on a rampage, there is no way to measure how safe or unsafe the airline will run just because there is commission-based pay for the flight attendants.

Some flight attendants give customers too much alcohol now and they do it in the name of customer service. My point is can you imagine the issue when their paycheck is tied to it?

Quoting Superfreak (Reply 42):
I happen to know a number of flight attendants, and based on the commitment to safety I've observed in these individuals, I would be quite surprised to meet more than one or two who simply shrug his/her shoulders at safety for another five cents.

I know quite a few flight attendants myself and none of their paychecks depend on the number of sodas and alcoholic beverages they sell. I also know a lot of bartenders who depend on getting customers drunk so they can bring home food at night. How many of those people get behind the wheel?

Take any commission based business, your pick, and tell me people do not side step regulations to achieve their personal monetary goals. I worked in the car business which is notorious for unethical practices. Real estate agents, mortgage brokers, insurance sales people, etc.

And do not be mistaken, I'm a big fan of using incentive-based pay plans to improve performance. The unethical behavior in these industries is an extreme minority. I think there is a time and a place for them and the cabin of an aircraft with the 150 lives on board is not one of them.

Quoting Superfreak (Reply 42):
Are people really that ignorant to think flight attendants (or pilots for that matter) would just place themselves at risk so easily?

If their paycheck depended on it, I wouldn't put it past them. And by all means, it's not my intention to generalize. I don't believe for a second that all F/As would do it.

Here's another example. I worked for an airline where ramp agents were given a performance bonus. The metrics being missed-bag-ratios, to DOT complaints, to on-time performance. Over-time we started to see a deterioration in certain standards. For example we had an on-time performance bonus one quarter. So instead of the airline spacing flights and giving time to turn airplanes properly, the rampers started to skip FOD walks, move bag carts out of the way, go speeding down taxi ways in tugs, etc.

Quoting Superfreak (Reply 42):
Sometimes you people remind me of the idiots

And lastly, if you cannot participate in an adult conversation without reverting to sophomoric insinuations, perhaps you should avoid pressing the 'Confirm Post' button.
 
azstagecoach
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 24):

A 90% load factor on their A319 is 140 people. If 80% buy a soda, 20% alcohol and 50% buy something like a snack platter, that's a total of about $18 a flight per flight attendant. There's no way you're going to get to $35,000 a year to start out.

I think the $9.00 per passenger is quite feasible. Consider the Midwest Express model of $10 Best Care Cuisine entrees that people actually want to buy because they taste good. All Skybus has to do is sell 25 blankets and pillows at $5 a set, an appetizing $10 entree that 30% of the passengers buy, a good $5 snack box that 50% more buy, and drinks both alco/non-alco (avg) $3.50 to 75% of the plane and you're at that $9 per passenger:

blankets/pillows 25 @ $5/set = $125
entrees (of 140) 30% = 42 x $10 = $420
snacks 50% = 70 x $5 = $350
bevs 75% = 105 x $3.50 = $367.5
total = $1262 / 140 = $9.01 per passenger

At $9 per passenger that $1262 works out to about $40 in commissions per FA. So the real question should be if $40 (give or take of course) per flight is enough. Which I would imagine would work out to aroiund $15 per hr extra for an average 2.5 hr block time. Does that make up the difference? I don't know the economics of the typical starting FA, but along with living in Columbus this definitely seems doable. Thoughts?

[Edited 2007-06-02 23:04:54]
 
0newair0
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 47):
I think you need to speak to your dear president about new labour laws and introducing a minimum wage!

Raising minimum wage is a dumb idea. Increasing the cost of living (for everyone) is the only thing it accomplishes.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
Logos
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 47):
I think you need to speak to your dear president about new labour laws and introducing a minimum wage!

We have a minimum wage, thank you very much, and it was just increased (not that I regard that in any way as positive).

What is generally not understood amid all the demagoguery regarding the minimum wage is its deletarious effects on the poorest people, as it simply eliminates jobs they would have otherwise had. What is also generally not appreciated is the origin of the minimum wage in this country. Originally it was established at the behest of unions, not to protect workers, but rather exclude them. You see, the minimum wage was set right above what "colored" workers were paid and these galant union members did not want to work alongside "coloreds". So, they basically made it less attractive to hire the minorities so they didn't have to associate with them in the workplace. From the start, the minimum wage has been about racism and today it's all about making work less available to the poorest and keeping them on the government dole. It's also still about union greed as many of their contracts are written as a multiple of the minimum wage.

While labor unions once served a useful purpose, that day has for the most part passed.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
luvfa
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 10:05 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting Logos (Reply 54):
While labor unions once served a useful purpose, that day has for the most part passed.

Except in the airline industry where the rules are established by the antiquated RLA. In fact, prior to 1996 there were no rules on duty/rest for FA's. Now not all airlines are union, (Delta, JetBlue). But their pay scales are much in line with Union Carriers so indirectly Unions benefit them too. BTW if you think unions serve no purpose than you wouldn't mind working above 40 hours with no overtime, No weekend end or Holiday Breaks and no benefits. However those are protected by law, (thanks to your hated unions) Crew Members get none of those benefits protected by law and therfore must be negotiated!

Its Ok we don't need a living wage so you can fly cross-county for $59!
 
Superfreak
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:34 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 51):
And lastly, if you cannot participate in an adult conversation without reverting to sophomoric insinuations, perhaps you should avoid pressing the 'Confirm Post' button.

Since I was not referring to you as an idiot, but that your opinion reminded me of said idiots train of thought, then I hardly understand why you would take offense. If it pleases you, feel free to replace the term 'idiots' with 'ignorant individuals'. For you to make the point that an airplane cabin is not the environment in which to conveniently neglect safety in favor of earning more money while simultaneously making the assumption that even a substantial minority of aircraft crews would not share this viewpoint with you insenuates that aircraft crews, namely flight attendants, are not capable of drawing the appropriate line. While I see your point, you seem to be forgetting that the incentive to not have to deal with, for example, a violent, intoxicated passenger far outweighs the incentive to make a few cents. You use bartenders as an example. I would argue that bartenders would be far less likely to engage in this behavior if they knew that the consequences involved a high risk of injury, or even death, to themselves. Furthermore, the other "industries" you mention hardly come under such intense scrutiny of both the Federal government and the general public when it comes to regulations. Considering that all safety-related positions within an airline are now licensed (including flight attendants), and revocation of that license ends a career permanently, I would still argue that flight crews are less likely to place themselves at such risk. While I admit that what you describe is a possibility, I must point out that it is inherently less of a possibility; which means internal pressures from peers and management should keep that pretty much in check.
 
azstagecoach
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:51 pm

Quoting Logos (Reply 43):

The other side of economics is demand. I, for one, don't ever intend to step onto a Skybus aircraft if I can avoid it.

I might try it, just to know what the experience is like. If the buy-on-board consumables are of good quality, and the seats are well-designed and supportive ala CX's new economy, then it could still be a good experience. After all I never would have guessed WN would be so comfy-- and free blankets and pillows-- if I had never tried it, and now I take them all the time. I must say, though, that this don't bring your own food policy makes me not want to take them-- for a long flight, it pretty much forces you to buy the stuff!

[Edited 2007-06-03 11:07:09]
 
tbolt1
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:29 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 57):
I might try it, just to know what the experience is like. If the buy-on-board consumables are of good quality, and the seats are well-designed and supportive ala CX's new economy, then it could still be a good experience. After all I never would have guessed WN would be so comfy-- and free blankets and pillows-- if I had never tried it, and now I take them all the time. I must say, though, that this don't bring your own food policy makes me not want to take them-- for a long flight, it pretty much forces you to buy the stuff!

it's been said I dunno how many times that they can't force you to not bring food on board. I think even the CEO was quoted saying that they weren't going to take your food away, but they encourage people to try the products on the flight.
"You can be my wingman anytime."
 
Logos
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Luvfa (Reply 55):
Its Ok we don't need a living wage so you can fly cross-county for $59!

Or, if enough of you feel that way, you can go do something else with your life. Eventually, the pendulum will swing the other way. I'm sorry, but no one's putting a gun to your head forcing you to do this job. I would say it's difficult to say what real benefit unions have been for the airline worker anyway as even union carriers have seen their wages cut drastically. It's not easy to make the case that they would have been cut more drastically without union represetation.

On the other side unions, which represent only 9% of workers overall, continue to wield a disproportionate amount of political power. The latest ploy is to put an end to secret ballots when it comes to unionizing a shop, which the democrats slipped into an unrelated bill. How wonderful it will be to be an "outed" person who voted against unionizing having your tires slashed and being victimized by other forms of general thuggery and intimidation.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
ual777
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting Logos (Reply 59):

Or, if enough of you feel that way, you can go do something else with your life. Eventually, the pendulum will swing the other way. I'm sorry, but no one's putting a gun to your head forcing you to do this job. I would say it's difficult to say what real benefit unions have been for the airline worker anyway as even union carriers have seen their wages cut drastically. It's not easy to make the case that they would have been cut more drastically without union represetation.

Easy for you to say. I have invested too much into my career to simply go do something else.

Airline management are the most ruthless guys ever. If they could get guys to fly for free they would.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 60):
Airline management are the most ruthless guys ever.

Why, because people will take jobs for that rate? it is a market economy, if people will take the jobs, they would be doing a disservice to their shareholders and other employees.

Have you ever gone into McDonalad and said "I want to pay 10.99 for my number 1 combo so you fry slingers can make a working wage?" I bet you haven't.

If you've ever shopped at Wal Mart, target, Old Navy, The Gap, Best Buy, or any big box retailer you are saying "I love cheap Chinese labor".


It is your choice, but knowing this is the reality of the airline business you just have to make a choice.

If you wait 5-7 years it may be a whole different ball game with 100K salaries and benefits out the wazoo, but for now it is what it is.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
Logos
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 61):
Why, because people will take jobs for that rate?

Well said (the entire post was, actually). It was tough to be in the buggy whip manufacturing business when the horseless carriage came along, too.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 60):
Easy for you to say. I have invested too much into my career to simply go do something else.

I've had to change careers in my 40s, so please don't assume that I have no clue what it's like. You're still making a choice to stay and there are still too many people out there who would love to do your job for your pay or less. That may change over time, but that's the world we live in today. I find that the sooner I embrace the reality I face, the better off I am. But, hey, if you'd rather simply be bitter, be my guest.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
AirOne
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 4:41 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:37 am

Guys-

To clear up a few rumors, first off many of the flight attendants are new to aviation, but many are not. I have met countless ones from JetBlue, Mesa, and a bunch of the other regionals. Many who used to had to dead head to their base can now come home every night. Also, the slaes per passenger on board are a lot higher than anticipated, I have heard hovering around 11 dollars per passenger. Add that to our our average load factor which is about 119 people, that is 44 dollars per flight attendant, per flight, plus the 9 an hour pay.

I know all the west coast flights have been selling out of meals half way into the flight.
 
ual777
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting Logos (Reply 62):

I've had to change careers in my 40s, so please don't assume that I have no clue what it's like. You're still making a choice to stay and there are still too many people out there who would love to do your job for your pay or less. That may change over time, but that's the world we live in today. I find that the sooner I embrace the reality I face, the better off I am. But, hey, if you'd rather simply be bitter, be my guest.

Im not bitter. Yes people would go be pilots for less IF THEY DIDNT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. As of right now, there is a huge shortage due to the years of low wages. Commercial Pilot Certificate issuance was down 63% from 2004-2006.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:10 pm

You still have the economics backwards. The supply is still plentiful for now or else the wages would be higher. The barrier to entering the market has become high, so at some point their wil be a equalibrium which will raise the wages if the labor really does dry up.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
Logos
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 65):
You still have the economics backwards. The supply is still plentiful for now or else the wages would be higher. The barrier to entering the market has become high, so at some point their wil be a equalibrium which will raise the wages if the labor really does dry up.

And you may be seeing the beginnings of that now as regionals have had to lower their total time to almost nothing to find applicants. I would think that the pendulum will swing somewhat the other way at some point, but there are still an awful lot of people out there who would love to get paid to fly.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
mandala499
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 3):
$9.00 an hour, if Skybus pays doors closed to doors opened, is about $8,100 a year. That's assuming they fly 75 hours a month, which is probably about the average.

Oh My God! That is dismal! One LCC here (yes a third world country) pays F/As $8 an hour if you recalculate on a per hour basis... Though some tries $4 an hour...

Has things gotten so bad over there?

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting Logos (Reply 66):
And you may be seeing the beginnings of that now as regionals have had to lower their total time to almost nothing to find applicants. I would think that the pendulum will swing somewhat the other way at some point, but there are still an awful lot of people out there who would love to get paid to fly.

It is beginning that is for sure. I say 24-36 months from now salaries will be going up (unless some economic thing happens that drives traffic down and causes a contraction again).
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
QXRamperMEII
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:49 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 20):
I am a 21 year old instrument student myself. I ALMOST went to the Regional Airline Academy until I got wise. Commercial Pilot certificate issuance is was down 63% in 2006 compared to 2004. Flight instructors are leaving in droves and there are no replacements because minimums are so low. Most regionals are offering sign-on bonuses now, and are offering bonuses to FOs at other airlines to switch over.

I urge every flight student (or potential flight student) to avoid pilot mills like RAA, Delta Connection Academy, and Jet University. You will save ALOT of money and will receive better training.

Further, fight your case of SJS (Shiny Jet Syndrome) and instruct, banner-tow, fly traffic watch, or drop sky divers for a few months and apply to one of the top tier regionals.

Avoid Mesa, GoJet, Trans-States, and PSA.

The senior pilots will respect you for it, you will get paid more, and you will help force wages up and "improve the profession."

My wish list is: American Eagle, ASA, and Skywest in that order.

OK I'm one of those FNGs going early into the jets...hate me at will. Here's a bit of my history:

My first flight, ever, as a student was 3 years ago, today (I just checked my logbook). All while working full-time as a bagsmasher, I got all the way up to the CFI / CFII / MEI level. For the previous year I've been working as a CFI full-time and still throwing bags full-time. Burned me out.

Between the 2 full-time jobs, I made $19,758 in 2006. That's right off my tax return. It cost me $54,525 to get all of my ratings in the two years I was a student. Hmmm...but guess what? I'm not driving a sexy car, but I've got a nice place to live, and a pretty comfortable life. Except that I did't go to flight school to throw bags and teach new people how to fly. Those were steps along the way, by no means the goal. I want to be a commercial airline pilot. I love flying, love the job, love the lifestyle (my fiancee is an F/A, so I'm not completely ignorant about the life of flight crews). Right now I have the flexibility to go anywhere, live in a crashpad for some time, fly shitty lines...I can do that now.

So along comes one of the "hated" regionals. They say, hey dude you've got a good resume, solid flying backround, in the industry already, some military experience...why don't you fly a CRJ for us, we'll start you at $21K?

Hmmmm...well shit. That sounds like a commercial airline job to me. And while $21K is a pittance, $21000 > $19758

Well hell bro, sign me up. Shit, a CRJ. Better than a C152 leaking oil. And in my little corner of the world I'm getting a raise. OK, so now you can throw all of your "Shiny Jet Syndrome" bullshit at me. I'd throw it right back. All these clowns, who are comfortable with thier jobs now that they are there, I want to ask "And would you turn it down in my shoes?"

I caught a lot of flak from pilots I know at the airline I ramp for..."Ahh, not them....they pay shit....crappy life....stick it out as a CFI...you're wasting your life....I was a CFI for 3000 hours, no shame in it...." I heard it all.

Well, hell. My current airline just threw on a huge hiring freeze. If you want a pilot job at QX, don't even think about it for a year. OK....also, I don't want to be a career FO. Current upgrade times are 8 years for the Dash, 10 for the CRJ. That's a long time to sit in the right-seat. Even the guys who flipped me shit have to acknowledge this point. In 8 years I'll have been a Captain for 6, if I haven't moved on to a major by then.

Bottom line: yeah, of course it's crappy money. Huge investment, little return for a long time. My mom is a lawyer; she paid over $100K for all of her education; do you think she got a huge salary right out of school? All you lawyers here on A.net can attest...you make shit for a long time, but you get there.

Don't blame the people going for thier dreams. What is my alternative? Pay all that money and say no to a job because the pay is too low? A low-paying flying job still beats no flying job. I want to be an airline pilot. I've been grinding it out doing jobs I don't like for crap money; I might as well do the job I want to do for crap money.

Management? Well yeah, a much better place to point the finger. The real culprits? Society. People have to expect to pay nothing for even less. And all the news is about the top 1% of the pilot wages, the guys making $300 who don't want to take a pay cut. Good for them...niether would I. But the average Wal-Mart shopper sitting at home, who just bought fun-fares to Disneyland for thier 12 kids thinks "Screw that guy, that's way too much money to push buttons"

Well there's the bottom of the pyramid, and that's where the cuts come from. Sure, I'd love to make more doing it, but the bottom line is the job I've worked my ass off for, and paid a lot of money for, came along. If I didn't take it and get in the pipeline now, someone else would. And then I could feel smug and self-righteous, until the mins go back up and I'm throwing bags and CFI'ing for another 3 years. No thank you.
 
Logos
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting QXRamperMEII (Reply 69):
If I didn't take it and get in the pipeline now, someone else would. And then I could feel smug and self-righteous, until the mins go back up and I'm throwing bags and CFI'ing for another 3 years. No thank you.

And that is the bottom line. You looked today's reality square in the face and chose the best alternative among the choices you had. But you're on your way to your dream and that's more than many people in the 40s who have regrets about not having done what you're doing 20 years ago can say. Best of luck to you as you climb the ladder.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
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asuflyer05
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 65):
The supply is still plentiful for now or else the wages would be higher.

The supply is not plentiful that's why you see certain regionals lowering their minimum times. Some are offering hiring bonuses. There are a number of airlines that come October and November will have a hard time completing their schedules due to CAs and FOs timing out for the year.

Quoting QXRamperMEII (Reply 69):
Well, hell. My current airline just threw on a huge hiring freeze. If you want a pilot job at QX, don't even think about it for a year. OK....also, I don't want to be a career FO. Current upgrade times are 8 years for the Dash, 10 for the CRJ. That's a long time to sit in the right-seat. Even the guys who flipped me shit have to acknowledge this point. In 8 years I'll have been a Captain for 6, if I haven't moved on to a major by then.

IMHO flying for a regional is so you can get your hours and get out. People talk a lot of crap about flying for YV. And I worked for them so I know what the work environment is like, crappy pay, junior assignments, work rule violations, etc. But I also know a guy who upgraded on the Dash after 8 months. There is something to be said about flying for a decent regional just in case you get stuck there between hiring periods at a major. But I'd rather be a CRJ captain and stuck at Mesa for 8 years than an ATR FO stuck at Eagle for 8 years and trying to upgrade.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 71):
The supply is not plentiful that's why you see certain regionals lowering their minimum times. Some are offering hiring bonuses. There are a number of airlines that come October and November will have a hard time completing their schedules due to CAs and FOs timing out for the year.

There is for now, but it is drying up quickly. that is econ 101. Already there are several regionals with no time requirments, so they are getting to the bottom of the barrel. This cycle is about over.


As a passenger I avoid those airlines like the plague.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
GMUAirbusA320
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Skybus Pay Rates

Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 47):


I think you need to speak to your dear president about new labour laws and introducing a minimum wage!

We got a new minimum wage...courtesy of the spineless Democrats that gave the President a blank check for the war! They did it at the cost of thousands of soldiers' lives and a benchmark in the Iraq War funding bill. Our congress is run by a bunch of morons (both Dems and Republicans) and now their approval rating is paying for it. Right now, the approval rating for the House of Representatives is as low as it was BEFORE the last November's election.

Sorry, I know this isn't a political page, but I thought I'd fill you in on the low-down here in the U.S.

Cheers,
GMUAirbusA320

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