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Glom
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I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 5:09 pm

Flying from BGI-LGW yesterday. I was in a seat right on the wing and after take-off, I noticed this funny flappy thing sticking out from the top of the flaps, where they disappear under the wing. I ducked around the aisle to see if I could see it on the other wing, but couldn't. So I went to a F/A and pointed it out. It got the Club World cabin crew in a tizzy as they struggled to figure out what it was. One lady got all uppity complaining in very stern terms the crew were frightening her daughter. Eventually they got the captain out who identified the object as a rubber seal from the flaperon that had come loose and gotten stuck in the flaps when they retracted.

I was a little embarassed after causing such a fuss. I kept a low profile in my little cubicle for the rest of the flight. Fortunately, I was also tired and hungover from consecutive days without much sleep so I spent the rest of the flight napping.

I have a picture of the offending component and I've tried to get it uploaded. I'll see if it makes it through the screening.
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 5:23 pm

Caused a small panic...

I thought you had brought toothpaste or water onboard  Smile
 
Markhkg
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 5:26 pm

I would say you did the right thing. Crew resource management demands that every safety concern -- from flight crew, to cabin crew, to passengers-- warrants further investigation. There has been more than one instance where a pax identified that a plane needed to be de-iced again due to surface contamination not detected by flight crew, to name one example.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
BA777ER236
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 5:30 pm

Hi Glom

I can tell you from personal experience that this happens quite often!

There are many seals on the 777 wing, especially on the trailing edge. There are Flaperon, Flap, and aileron seals, and they all contribute to the fuel efficiency of the 777. If one, or a section are missing, then this has absolutely NO safety implication, but it does increase the fuel consumption by a fraction of a percent per seal or per foot of seal missing.

Occasionally, they 'pop' in flight, and unfortunately, this does look quite alarming from the cabin. The cabin crew at LGW are all recent 'convertees' to the 777, as they are all part of a new arrangement at LGW called 'onefleet'. As a result, they are all familiar with the 737, but not the 777, and I imagine that that is why they were not aware of the common nature of such an event. However, of course, in any event, they should bring this to the attention of the Captain, who should, as in this case, be able to rapidly diagnose the problem.

I'm sorry if you felt uncomfortable with such an 'event', but I would like to say that you did the right thing in bringing it to the attention of the cabin crew. The way in which they reacted may have been a little 'unfortunate', hopefully explained above, and I'm sure that the Captain would have de-briefed them afterwards as part of their rather 'steep' learning curve!

Cheers
 Smile
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
ThePalauan
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting Glom (Thread starter):

I'm sure if someone from here on A.net had been onboard, their reaction would have been along the lines of:

"NERD!"

 Big grin  duck 
You can take the boy out of the island, but not the island out of the boy!
 
qantas787
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 6:17 pm

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 3):
The cabin crew at LGW are all recent 'convertees' to the 777, as they are all part of a new arrangement at LGW called 'onefleet'

Why are they new to the 777 at Gatwick, as it has been flying from there for a long time?
G'day
 
Skidmarque
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 6:25 pm

Hey Glom
Don't worry about it, you did exactly the right thing.
If it had been something serious then the silly woman's daughter would have been a whole lot more frightened !
DUCK !
 
mandala499
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 7:19 pm

Hey Glom,
Dun worry about it. At least we know that BA applies the crew (cockpit AND cabin) resource management! It's better to have that than my flight from hell... called the F/A and asked why we were venting fuel during the take off roll and climb... they insisted it was engine contrails at sea level to FL280 in the tropics and that the engine contrails would come out of the wingtip... After tht was pointed out and convinced her otherwise, she just said... "Oh tht's normal sir..." and walked off... 40 mins later, we lost #1 engine... no announcements, no nothing!

Perhaps in your case, they could have handled it better, but then, "acts in the interest of safety" is understood in very strange ways by some passengers nowadays... And the panic threshold of pax have been varying out of the norm lately...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
AlanUK
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 7:22 pm

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 5):
Why are they new to the 777 at Gatwick, as it has been flying from there for a long time?

I'll answer on behalf of BA777ER236:

- Because LGW 777s used to be operated by "WorldWide" crew, dedicated to the 777 flying at LGW. This team has now moved to LHR to operate 767/777/747.

- the crew who were previously operating the 737s (and occasional Airbus) at LGW, now also fly on the 777s under the ONE FLEET project for BA at LGW. They have all been converted to the 777 within the last 6 months.

Regards
 
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OA260
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 7:29 pm

You did the right thing!!! Better to be safe than sorry . Just imagine if it had have been something and you didnt say anything !!! I bet the girl on the Aloha 737 who saw something wrong when she boarded the AC wish she had said something.
 
BA777ER236
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 7:54 pm

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 5):
Why are they new to the 777 at Gatwick, as it has been flying from there for a long time?

The 'onefleet' crews are on a different contract to mainline crew. They are essentially 'euroGatwick' crew which has it's origins from Dan Air days. The contract that they are on is much 'cheaper' for BA, and essentially, BA have expanded 'euroGatwick' into a unified short/long haul 'onefleet' with a much lower cost base than the previous 'mainline' crew scenario. The original LGW 'mainline' crew were offered transfer to LHR or integration into 'onefleet' (on lower salaries), or redundancy.

The unions were 'forced' into this position by BA threatening to close the long haul business at LGW as not cost effective!

As you can imagine, this caused a lot of angst among the cabin crew, but it has come to pass, and as I explained previously, has resulted in 'all new' cabin crew on the long haul fleet at LGW.

Cheers
 Smile
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
BA777ER236
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 8):
I'll answer on behalf of BA777ER236:

Sorry AlanUK, didn't see your post, thanks for your input, but have also posted a reply!

Cheers
 Smile
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
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Vasu
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 8:59 pm

Any chance we can see the photo?

I'm intrigued! Big grin
 
qantas787
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 9:58 pm

Thanks for the explanation BA777ER236 and AlanUK.
G'day
 
vv701
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 11):
BA have expanded 'euroGatwick' into a unified short/long haul 'onefleet'

When did this happen?
 
ZakHH
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 10:48 pm

Guess you did the right thing, Glom.

I did exactly the same on an LH flight from ALA to FRA some 15 months ago. Noticed something unusual on the wing, and was a bit alarmed, especially since I heard a strange noise during the takeoff run (sounded like we may have hit a bird or some small object on the runway). It was pitch black outside though, so I could not really see much.

After seatbelt signs were switched off, I calmly went to the back galley and informed an f/a about what I saw and heard. We had an LH engineer onboard, and he was asked to check the wing. Turned out that everything was just fine, but the engineer told me later that they appreciate such feedback, as long as you don't run screaming through the cabin (or argue with the crew about flap settings and such Big grin ).

So I guess there is nothing to worry about.
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HAWK21M
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 10:52 pm

You did the Right thing. Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Glom
Topic Author
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Tue May 29, 2007 11:34 pm

I've received a tip about uploading photos. You can see a pic of the wing in my profile.
 
omoo
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 12:01 am

https://www.airliners.net/uf/536890253/1180448913IH8RFV.jpg
Fly Air Popobawa
 
UAL747
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 12:14 am

I had a similar experience one time on an AA 767. We pushed out of the gate and the engines were started up and about mid-taxi, I noticed that the right engine was spewing out some sort of liquid every time the captain throttled up the engine. Notified the flight attendant who notified the captain. We were back at the gate shortly after. I'm still to this day not sure if the flightcrew noticed this first or if I did. We ended up with a plane change as ours went Tech.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
MidEx216
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 2):
I would say you did the right thing.

As would I. I've never spotted anything, but I always try to act like an extra set of eyes for the crew. Just in case. Although in this case, I might not be so quick to go to the crew because on one plane I was working, I saw a rubber seal much like what you are talking about coming out, so I would have identified it a bit quicker.
 
BA777ER236
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):
When did this happen?

About six months ago.

Cheers
 Smile
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
n710ps
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 1:47 am

It is very common. When I was flying 20/30 series Lears once we had a full boat on board as an air ambulance which means us up front, two nurses, the paitent and a family member. We were topped off going out of PWM with tanks topped for BWI. Anyone familiar with the Lear knows that it will occasionally vent a little bit. We departed and entered into a left turnout and I guess we vented a little bit. One of the nurses noticed and sort of paniced and yelled were spilling fuel. The paitent, family member and other flight nurse got very edgy. Our captain told them to calm down it is normal and we went on our way. I thought it very unprofessional of that nurse to get that way considering this guy spends 14 days a month in airplanes.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
BA787
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 1:53 am

I had an experience similar to this on a BY 752 at the beginning of the year. I chose not to comment and everything turnedf out ok. I noticed under the edger of a flap a small area that kept glinting and moving while at cruise. I didn't get alrmed but consulted my Dad, who jut said it will be water (not into aviartion).


In hinesight, I should have mentioned it to a member of crew as it is always helpful if there is something wrong. I will do this if I ever notice anything peculiar again
 
jamesbaldwyn
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
You did the Right thing

Exactly. If in doubt, ask.

If you didn't you would be worrying about it all night and would never of gotten any sleep.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 2:28 am

No worries man. You did the right thing.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
AirEMS
Posts: 625
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 3:46 am

As I think of this situation one saying comes to mind... It's better to point something out and it be nothing rather than to ignore something and die from it...

--Carl
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
AirSpare
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 19):
AA 767

They always went tech on me before pushback, 3 of my last 4 AA 767 flights, grrrr. But to give them credit were nice enough about two legs and refunded 20k points, or exactly half price and an extra night in GIG.  Smile

Kind of embarassing eh? But interesting news about LGW was posted. I'd connect through there if I could carry on 2 items or not walk/bus miles. I came to LAD on a BA T7, to bad I couldn't connect direct from MIA or MCO from LGW!

LHR seems like a ghastly place with a dozen or two A380 t/o's a day.
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
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ADent
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 4:27 am

I heard from someone writing the issue on the back of a business card and asking the F/A to bring it up to the Captain's attention is a good plan - especially if the business card is aviation related.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 4:51 am

I agree with those saying it's far better to point out a non-problem than to not point out a problem!

A couple years back, I boarded a CO 738 at EWR. When I got to my window seat, the vent panel at foot level was loose - in the process of sitting down and trying to put my bag under the seat, the panel (cheap plastic) came off. A F/A was nearby, so I thought I'd let him know there was a panel off. He saw it and said he'd get mtc to take a look.

A couple minutes later, a mtc guy came on board and I got out of my seat to let him in. He had this nervous panicked look on his face when he told me it really would be okay and I shouldn't worry - he went on and on ... it was kind of funny: Somehow, "A passenger reports a loose a/c panel" became "A passenger is worried that the plane will fall apart."
 
varigb707
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 5:44 am

How dare you sir, causing such a stir on a plane.... Just kidding.
I ve done worse though. It goes back in the day i when i worked for an airline and i did the ground handling for third parties.
I caused a delay on a private flight. Nothing major. It was a small private jet(/). Regardless...
Long story short...While the cabin crew were preparing for their passengers to arrive, i was jsut chilling and waiting and observing. I was near the door (which was open) and i did pull some knob by mistake. Eventhough there was big warning label there, warning 'DO NOT PULL THIS KNOB WHILE DOOR IS OPEN'. My first response to that was : "D'OH!"
There was no financial damage to the plane it self. But it did delay the flight in almost 2 hours though. Well, noone knows of this, until now. I won't tell where it happened nor when. Something's are better left unsaid, if you will.
Well, that's my story. ANyone else has something similar?

  

[Edited 2007-05-29 22:54:40]
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
checksixx
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 5:48 am

You did the right thing. I was on a flight once heading to the Middle East and our stop was at Lajes. Enroute I woke up and everyone for the most part was sleeping. Looking out my window (I got lucky), it was a clear night with some moon illumination. An optical illusion played out from the Ocean surface and it appeared that we were VERY low and in a slow decent. Well hell yeah I was freaked out on the inside........I quietly expressed my concern to a cabin attendant and she agreed thats what it looked like. She went forward and and few minutes later she returned. Yes, I was still nervous. She had spoken with the pilots who cross checked the altitude and informed her that every once in awhile, you see an illusion like that. They had her pass on thanks to me for saying something...although I'm sure they thought I was just another dumb pax...Rest of the flight was wonderful. For anyone thats ever flown the approach and landing into Lajes, they set it down smoother than any other flight I've been on.

--Check
 
UAL747
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 27):
They always went tech on me before pushback, 3 of my last 4 AA 767 flights, grrrr. But to give them credit were nice enough about two legs and refunded 20k points, or exactly half price and an extra night in GIG.  

I flew on the 767-200 all the time back and forth from DFW-BOS-DFW when I was at college in Boston. Back then it was flight 946/947. It was routed BOS-DFW-LIM-DFW-BOS. I loved getting the widebody flight as I always got to sit in the business class section for the price of economy, but yeah, half the time those 762's were always going tech. It probably happened 3 or 4 times in the same year. Once I spent the better part of 8 hours at DFW taxiing to the runway and back, getting onboard and deplaning the same 767. Finally they cancelled the flight and put us on a 757 (same crew) and we got to BOS around 12:00AM. Original arrival time was somewhere around 2PM BOS time.

AA gave me 10,000 miles for the ordeal and bumped me up to first class for the flight to Boston.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
PilotRecruit
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 6:28 am

I must reiterate what everyone else has said that you absolutely did the right thing. Like the old saying goes, there really are no dumb questions, especially when it comes to aviation.

A year ago I was working on a flight and ended up being the lead marshaller for the pushback. As I was holding the captain in the 'X' while the tractor was unhooked I noticed that the front left, L1, door seemed to not be sitting flush with the fuselage. As I was standing a good 50ft away from the plane I thought it to be a bit of an illusion so I gave the captain the all clear to head on his way. As I was walking back to the gate the thought of the door possibly not sitting flush really bothered me so I headed over to my chief and had a quick chat with him. At the end of the discussion he left the decision up to me whether or not we should call the plane back in. It was the scariest decision I've ever made because I know it was going to cost a huge sum of money to have the plane taxi back in, but then again, an accident would be even pricier so I had them ask the captain to return to the gate. In the end, maintenance decided that the door infact was not sitting flush and the possibility of a cabin depressurization was too high to send the plane on and was therefore teched.

Much better safe than sorry.
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 6:38 am

I'd say you definitely did the right thing by reporting it, and as for the woman who got arsey about it, what else could the FA do?! It's not like she was a qualified aircraft mechanic!!
I came, I saw, I Concorde! www.gofundme.com/lineupandwait
 
sstsomeday
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 2):
I would say you did the right thing.

Me too.

I was in a smaller airliner many years ago (People Express, I believe), and a passenger noticed that the fuel cap on the top of the wing had been left open by the fuel attendant.

The passenger informed the crew, the crew informed the flight deck, and moments later a sheepish fuel attendant quickly returned to properly put the cap back.

I'm a seasoned flyer, and a pilot, and if I notice something that I cannot logically explain, I'd rather embarrass myself by questioning it and having it turn out to be nothing, rather than stay quiet when there very well make be a mechanical issue or oversight at hand.
I come in peace
 
richierich
Moderator
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 8:25 am

You did the right thing and nobody can think badly of you for calling over the flight attendant (who in turn did the right thing by notifying the cockpit). If it was a serious issue, you had better believe that the flight crew would rather know about it!

Wasn't there a similar issue involving the Concorde once? I seem to remember reading that a passenger at the back of the plane noticed a hole in the Concorde wing caused by runway debris on takeoff... yes this was well before the tragic crash in 2000. I forget who this person was, but he kept ringing the FA call button because there was fuel spewing from the hole and when the FO came out and saw the situation, they made a (safe) emergency landing. It could have easily turned into a tragic incident like the one in Gonesse, France several years later...
None shall pass!!!!
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 10:05 am

Good reasons to put aircraft enthusiasts by the windows rather than those who are too quick to pull the window shades down as soon as they are sitted!
Boeing747 万岁!
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting VarigB707 (Reply 30):
There was no financial damage to the plane it self. But it did delay the flight in almost 2 hours though. Well, noone knows of this, until now. I won't tell where it happened nor when

Pray tell, what does (did) this knob do, and...

Why are you pulling knobs that say "Do not pull knob"?! Big grin

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 10:31 am

On a related story, I wes flying on a UA 737 from OKC-DEN. The flight lasts a little over an hour. Well, suddenly, at cruise altitude we slowed down. The cabin got quiet and then I noticed that the flaps and slats were being extended. At this point in time, a captain or first officer came back to the wiings, took a look outsided both wings and returned to the cockpit.

Meanwhile, Channel 9 was on all the way to DEN until it was abruptly shut off when this incident occurred.

Made me nervous while the f/a were in the back galley going over some sort of manual.


UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Jerald01
Posts: 151
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RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 12:08 pm

On my first transatlantic passenger flight (CHI to CDG) I noticed a yellow glove that was caught underneath one of the spoilers on the right wing of the B-707 we were on. I pointed it out the the F/A's and they notified the front-end crew. Nobody said much about it, but every passenger on that side of the plane watched that darn glove for the rest of the flight! It popped off when the spoilers were deployed when we landed at CDG, and nothing more was seen nor heard of it.

Just glad there wasn't a hand attached to the darn thing....
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
 
ecuatoriana707
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:36 am

RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 3:42 pm

I was on an Aerolineas Argentinas 737-200 8 years ago from EZE to GIG, seated behind the wing. After take-off I noticed a steady stream of oil flowing along the engine which did not let up as we climbed. I walked down the back to the galley and told the cabin crew, who then called the FO down. He discreetly leaned over and looked out my window. He decided that it was an overflow release from the engine which had been topped up in EZE and not a threat.
To the crew's credit, both he and the cabin staff quitely thanked me for bringing it to their attention without making a big deal.
 
ZakHH
Posts: 1570
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:32 pm

RE: I Caused A Small Panic On BA

Wed May 30, 2007 3:42 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 38):
Why are you pulling knobs that say "Do not pull knob"?!

Cause it's kind of a written invitation for most people to actually pull it?  Wink
Just like the best way to spread information in the entire company is to leave them in a public room in a folder that reads "confidential"... Big grin
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