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ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
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US Continues to Move Caribbean from PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 7:04 am

I was going through the summer skds & rotations, & I noticed my friends at US are at it again. The former PHL carribean flts are being routed through CLT, (AUA, STT, SXM). Not a smart move to move these high profile destinations away from here. People will not connect through CLT on US, they would rather fly some else if the nonstop option is not avalaible. Gate space is not an issue either regarding these flts either. Your thoughts????
 
usairways85
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 7:16 am

Completely agree. While CLT is the better connecting hub to the Caribbean, PHL still has enough O&D and limited connections to serve these destinations at least on a weekly basis in the summer and daily in the winter.

Surprising that PHL-STT has been a 762 in the winter and now not operating?

If i had to get from PHL to AUA or STT, without a nonstop US flt i would choose to fly AA through SJU every time.
 
Flighty
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 7:17 am

US probably knows exactly how profitable PHL-Carib and CLT-Carib are. So, we can feel comforted that they are making well informed decisions.

Also, this could just be a reduction for the autumn and summer months, the low season in that part of the world.
 
ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 3):
PHL still has enough O&D and limited connections to serve these destinations

Unfortunatley Sat only servc doesn't work for these destinations they should be 3 or 4 xs a week, but US wants to surrender one of the few good things the old regime did but routing everything through Carolina.
 
UALFAson
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 9:45 am

Have you people ever connected through PHL on US? I have a few times and every time has been a disaster. The airport is organized chaos and runway waits of an hour or more in perfectly fine weather are not uncommon.

In fact, I flew US LAX-STT-LAX connecting thorugh PHL last summer. Both ways, runway delays of almost 2 hours due to traffic volume, not weather. (What a great way to start and end a vacation, no?) The ground staff were uninformed and unhelpful, and it's one of the reasons I will try to avoid US when possible, even though I want the *A miles.

Compared to PHL, connecting in CLT is a breeze. I don't know the breakdown between O&D and cnx pax on these PHL-Caribbean flights, but my guess is that there's a good chunk of connecting pax. Better for US to route them through an airport (CLT) that's actually equipped to handle the volume. Plus, CLT is geographically closer to the Caribbean and less out of the way for a large number of connecting pax as opposed to PHL.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
pitops
Posts: 470
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 9:55 am

I think it is a smart move too. CLT is the better Carr. airport and PHL is the Euro airport.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting Ophila (Thread starter):
he former PHL carribean flts are being routed through CLT, (AUA, STT, SXM

AUA is a Sa./Sun 757 (US 853)  checkmark 
STT is a Sa./Sun 757 (US 1018)  checkmark 
SXM is a Sa./Sun 757 (US 1259)  checkmark 

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 1):
Surprising that PHL-STT has been a 762 in the winter and now not operating?

It's a Saturday 757 (US 1015)  checkmark 

Quoting Ophila (Reply 3):
Unfortunatley Sat only servc doesn't work for these destinations they should be 3 or 4 xs a week, but US wants to surrender one of the few good things the old regime did but routing everything through Carolina.

Historically US has surrendered connection-reliant flights through it's more modern, connection suited hub in Charlotte  twocents 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
PITSpeedbird
Posts: 58
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 10:05 am

PHL is a terrible airport and a terrible billboard for USAirways.
I agree that connecting through there is terrible. The facility is
out-dated and a mess.......

I never have on time connections through PHL. And when there is an
ontime push-back, we are usually delayed due to the inconvenient runway
setup.

Kudos to USAirways for making one smart decision. I guarantee almost every
passenger finds it more convenient to connect through PIT.

On the whole - the airline is undeserving of Star Alliance company.

Hopefully Doug Parker will recover from his drunken stupor and realize that
he needs to move more flights to PIT!

- (but then again - I may be biased!!  Smile )

Cheers -

PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 7):
PHL is a terrible airport and a terrible billboard for USAirways.
I agree that connecting through there is terrible. The facility is
out-dated and a mess.......

I never have on time connections through PHL. And when there is an
ontime push-back, we are usually delayed due to the inconvenient runway
setup.

I hear so many horror stories about that place. Most everyone I talk to will never fly through it again.

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 7):
Kudos to USAirways for making one smart decision. I guarantee almost every
passenger finds it more convenient to connect through PIT.



Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 7):
Hopefully Doug Parker will recover from his drunken stupor and realize that
he needs to move more flights to PIT!

- (but then again - I may be biased!! )

I may be a bit biased too and I'll try to not make this a 100 post PIT thread, but PIT is a much better airport to connect through. But we all know what happens to us here.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
bomber996
Posts: 533
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 10:32 am

I find it quite unfortunate that US has reduced their Caribbean flight from PHL. I live in New Hampshire so connecting in PHL was quite convinient for me. I travel into SDQ a few time a year and it was really convineient to have daily flights to SDQ. Then it was cut to sat. only service. That wasnt that bad however because there were x2 Daily flights a day from FLL so that was do-able. But then the FLL focus city was cut and now only the sat. service to SDQ exists. Sad really.

On the PHL note, I actually like the new terminal. (I was on the first flight to be handled in the new terminal when it opened) Big grin I really havent had many delays due to traffic, but that probably because the SDQ flgiht leavs durring a slow time. Anyway, I have never had a problme with PHL.

Peace  box 
"We've recently upped our standards, so up yours." - Federal Aviation Administration
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 4):
Have you people ever connected through PHL on US? I have a few times and every time has been a disaster. The airport is organized chaos and runway waits of an hour or more in perfectly fine weather are not uncommon.

PHL is literaly the worst airport to connect in on the East coast, although EWR and LGA are a close second and third.

I have only been ontime out of PHL on average of 1 in 5 times.

CLT is the way to go , I agree PIT would be better also.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
PITSpeedbird
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:25 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 10):
I agree PIT would be better also.

Yes - well -- it's an airport designed specifically for connections!

Cheers

PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 11):
Yes - well -- it's an airport designed specifically for connections!

That it was. It's a shame it doesn't get used more for that.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 12:41 pm

Routinely being a Charlotte local professionally and dealing through that city as much as I do I think from experince it is good to get away from PHL and bad also. The O&D is not as large as one might think it is really. Not only that but certain cities that see the Airbus as well as the 757/767 do not warrent that type but because of the distance down the seaboard that creates issues with PHL. The E-190 is a suitable airplane for certain islands that are reachable from CLT that have low demand for seats thus bringing the cost of flying down greatly. As far in as knocking PHL..... Ehhhhhh I would not go so far to those that do. Again a city I routinely transition through and non rev through as well. It is actually a well run operation. The express side at F concourse has it's issues but mainline has been nothing but great. PHL is a catch 22 though. The reason for it is AIRSPACE...... It is locked between the havy sectors n the NY/NJ metro area and the DC area. FAA always for obvious reason gives priorityto DCA/IAD/BWI as well as JFK and EWR and not soo much LGA over PHL. This is from what freinds of mine have told me who are heavily involved in and associated withte restructureing going to be solved in the next year or so. Look out for PHL. It is the diamond in the rough and well. She will shine soon.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
NoBoeingNoGoin
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 12:42 pm

As a US agent, I know that Philly is a mess. The reason that we continue to have it as our largest hub is because it is the most profitable.
Airlines need large population bases to feed flights. PIT just doesn't have the population to have local traffic and connecting passengers through a hub is so low yield that it isn't worthwhile.
Philly is a mess, it's not going to change.
If you don't like it, don't fly through there and quit bitching!
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting NoBoeingNoGoin (Reply 14):
If you don't like it, don't fly through there and quit bitching!

Wow. Easy over there.

If US heard every person that complained, maybe they'd do something with the place. I have never heard anyone say anything nice about it. Not even US employees.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 12:46 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 15):

If US heard every person that complained, maybe they'd do something with the place. I have never heard anyone say anything nice about it. Not even US employees.

Ummmmm........ And what am I chop liver?
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 16):
Ummmmm........ And what am I chop liver?

Did I say you were?

Do you love PHL or something?
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 12:58 pm

Hey, I have never had a problem with the city.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 18):
Hey, I have never had a problem with the city.

I've driven through it fine many times, but will never fly through it.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 4):
Have you people ever connected through PHL on US?

Tell them again. I used to work for US Airways when they flew to GND on Saturdays. PHL is a real mess, passengers always miss connections, and there is only one bank of flights to mostly north eastern destinations by the time the flight gets in. THe majority of the flight were connecting passengers no O&D as many people think. CLT is much better option for the caribbean flights in my opinion. Whatsmore US has changed flights from PHL to CLT before and have seen great success.
Look Up
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5176
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 15):
I have never heard anyone say anything nice about it. Not even US employees.

I just nonreved through PHL and had no problem. Then again, I allow myself plenty of time to connect, something most paying passengers should think about when booking. I'm talking an hour, minimum, for any airport, PHL, PHX or otherwise.
And the food was good too.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting NoBoeingNoGoin (Reply 14):
I know that Philly is a mess. The reason that we continue to have it as our largest hub is because it is the most profitable.

I thought CLT was US's largest hub??
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Wed May 30, 2007 2:07 pm

PHL is the international gateway. CLT is the largest by movements though as well as the training center for mainline PSA and peidmont along with Republic E-170 crew training and Air Wisconsin recurrent.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
PITSpeedbird
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:25 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting NoBoeingNoGoin (Reply 14):
If you don't like it, don't fly through there and quit bitching!

terrific attitude to get people to fly your airline!

 Yeah sure
you leave. Arrive before
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 21):
I just nonreved through PHL and had no problem. Then again, I allow myself plenty of time to connect, something most paying passengers should think about when booking. I'm talking an hour, minimum, for any airport, PHL, PHX or otherwise.

Well I have also nonrevved through PHL without problems many times. But you are working with US now, you have to admit that PHL (though not a bad hub) is not the best hub in the US network.
Look Up
 
ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 25):
is not the best hub in the US network

No it is not the BEST HUB! Yet it is the cash cow, & has been for years. This company continues to underutlize & mismanage the place. CLT is nice place, but as I mentioned no one in the Deleware Valley area is going to fly US if they have to connect through CLT! Period. The PIT lovers it's unfortunate what has happened to your airport & city, but we are not talking about best connection cities here. The issue is why would you pull flts from the your revenue generorator. Simple as that.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Ophila (Reply 26):
Yet it is the cash cow,

SO why would they cut flights at their "cash cow"?
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
US probably knows exactly how profitable PHL-Carib and CLT-Carib are.

They've been cutting both. US is down in CLT and down further in PHL in terms of departures to the Caribbean. They're down about 20% from all three East Coast "hubs" (PIT included) to the Caribbean this Summer YOY.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 27):
SO why would they cut flights at their "cash cow

That's my question? Why do such a thing.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting Ophila (Reply 29):
That's my question? Why do such a thing.

I can guarantee you they are not cutting any "cash cow" flights.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Ophila (Reply 26):
but as I mentioned no one in the Deleware Valley area is going to fly US if they have to connect through CLT! P

Come on man. US flights ex CLT are filled with connecting passengers, whether they come from the Delaware valley is another story. To open up the US Caribbean flights to more US cities, CLT is the BEST connecting point in US network. As you say no one in the Delaware valley would fly to CLT to go to the caribbean, people on the west coast or south of Charlotte would hate even more overnight in PHL on the return flight to get home. That was the situation at PHL, when the bank of caribbean flights arrived. During winter if there were any delays, add the misconx passengers to that list, as there is only one bank of departing flights to connect to.

Quoting Ophila (Reply 26):
o it is not the BEST HUB! Yet it is the cash cow, & has been for years

I am sure the true 'cash cow' flights are still operating ex PHL, ie the bulk of European and select Caribbean flights.

The two airports have their + and -, and I suppose we can assume that US carefully looked at the situation and came to a proper decision, ie use CLT.
Look Up
 
ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 31):
am sure the true 'cash cow' flights are still operating ex PHL, ie the bulk of European and select Caribbean flights

Again your are talking about connecting paxs. I am not speaking of them, I am speaking on those who live in the Philly,NJ, DE, ABE area. Many who travel to AUA, & STT.
Leaving Philly at 5:30 to connect through CLT & arriving home at 11:20PM will not help with the locals.
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 1:49 am

So, my next question here is who works for US or an asociate carrier? And my next qustion is (drum roll please) who here is an arm chair CEO who does not even work in the airline industry? PHL will make money because of location location location. US is not the airline of the Northeast and the east for that matter for no reason. US has the best located hubs in the nation. USonce had a philosophy in the east that went something like if it has a runway we serve it.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 33):
who here is an arm chair CEO who does not even work in the airline industry?

who is
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 33):
US has the best located hubs in the nation.

Yikes. Not on your life.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 33):
USonce had a philosophy in the east that went something like if it has a runway we serve it.

And where did that get US? Besides SYR, CMH, IND, PHL, PIT, LGA, DCA, IAD, BWI, DAY Silly?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5176
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Ophila (Reply 26):
This company continues to underutlize & mismanage the place.

How is PHL underutilized?

And as far as your mismanagement allegation...perhaps in the past there was a lack of management, but no longer. Most complaint-worthy problems at PHL now are structural issues of the airport itself, most of which US has no control over.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting Ophila (Reply 32):
Philly,NJ, DE, ABE area. Many who travel to AUA, & STT.

not enought to be profitable for US apparently supply and demand has spoken here.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 33):
PHL will make money because of location location location.

Well to Europe yes, but apparently not the cities they just cut. Again, they wouldn't cut these flights if there was demand to keep RASM above CASM at a rate equal to or exceeding the profit they could get redeploying assets to another city pair.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
usairways85
Posts: 4257
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 37):
Again, they wouldn't cut these flights if there was demand to keep RASM above CASM at a rate equal to or exceeding the profit they could get redeploying assets to another city pair.

Then you clearly misjudge the management of US.
 
ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
but no longer

HPRamper I respect your opinions, but I differ from your on this issue. The PHL Tower is still on of the weakest grnd cntrl towers of any HUB. The gate assignments & frequent chngs. There is an inept problem with gate utilization by US. The only constants are that Ejets go to C & the Trans Atlantics leave from AWest.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
underutilized

AWest is not used enough. AM Caribbean push 0700-1045, PM transatlantic arrival & dep 1330-2030. CO does more out
EWR with less gates. Their flts depart from the same areas most of the time. Gates do not have eqp occupying them for hours at a time. The tower works in conjunction with the FAA not in objection like here at PHL.
 
ophila
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 38):
Then you clearly misjudge the management of US.

here here!!
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 38):
Then you clearly misjudge the management of US.

Not really,I have friends connected to the MEC in PHX, I know more than I want to know about US, since I fly them all the time. (HP was great, US East is pulling them down.)

And are you saying the HP management are doing a worse job than old US because that would be a joke right?
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
rb211tristar
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 3:44 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 5:26 am

You guys (and gals) have to realize that 99% of travelers, especially to those destinations, aren't like us. They don't pick airlines based on aircraft type, onboard entertainment, 1st class cabin size, or connection hubs... they chose based on PRICE.

I'm not saying that there aren't people who will pick AA over US between PHL and STT b/c of the connecting city, but that vast, vast majority will see a low price and grab it. I promise.

As an aside... I'm a bit jealous that US is/was flying 762/757 between PHL and STT. I used to fly that route multiple times a month for work when it was strictly an A320 route.  banghead 

Oh, and PS: Not only do I like US as an airline... I LOVE PHL!  Big grin But I'll admit it takes a certain kind of character to appreciate the place... haha

-Cheers
 
apodino
Posts: 4087
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 6:00 am

This is one of the most bizzare threads I have seen. First of all, maybe the locals won't be happy about some carribean flights moving to CLT, but is it going to stop them from flying US? Lets think about this for a second. If they wanted to fly someone to the carribean non-stop, who are they going to fly? I can't name one other carrier, save for maybe AA with the SJU flight (Which I might add US runs an A330 on). Basically, no matter who they chose, they are going to connect somewhere, and it might be a worse connection than CLT. AA would be MIA, DL would be ATL, CO would be to EWR or IAH which would backtrack either way, UA would be IAD, and NW wouldn't even be in the picture. Out of these, I still think CLT is the best option for connecting if you have to connect. To say that passengers are going to switch because they can't get a nonstop flight is rubbish when they have no other non stop options to begin with.

What US is doing is very smart. They know that they can still move PHL passengers to the Carribean through CLT, and most of these are probably vacation travellers anyways and aren't among the highest yielding passengers. So by moving flights to CLT, which has more capacity, a better facility, and is less prone to delays, most of their passengers will benefit greatly from it, it will slightly reduce demand on PHL, which is a good thing, and it will make for better aircraft utilization. And it gives US a direction, so they have CLT for Carribean Flights, PHL for Europe, and PHX for Mexico and the Pacific.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 23):
CLT is the largest by movements though as well as the training center for mainline PSA and peidmont along with Republic E-170 crew training and Air Wisconsin recurrent.

Air wisconsin does all their Sim Training in CLT now, Initial and recurrent. The only training not done in CLT is Basic Indoc which is still in ATW, Recurrent General Subjects and Systems, which are done in the domiciles.



As far as PHL goes, it is getting much better there. The ZW crews I have spoken to say that the F gate operation has improved dramatically in recent weeks. One thing I found impressive is the fact that ZW ran an ontime zero the other day of 80 percent for the whole day. This is even more amazing considering the fact that ZW's operations are heaviliy concentrated in BOS, LGA, PHL, and DCA. And the people working in PHL have a lot to do with it. I haven't been there to see it, but I don't hear any stories anymore about flights waiting for bags or lazy rampers anymore. And Mainline is improving as well. US is finally going to install Rampside Flight information Displays, very similar to what NW uses in their hubs as well as UA, DL, and I believe AA. This should have been done long ago. But PHL's biggest problem right now is airport layout and airspace design. Airspace design is being addressed. As far as airport Layout goes, the biggest thing I could see them doing is extending 17-35 to a length where RJ's can land on it even when its wet, which would be a big help. Also adding an ILS to 35 would really help as well. These two things would reduce much of the weather delays that can cause problems. Otherwise, it is what it is.
 
StarCityFlyr
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:51 am

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 6:13 am

PHL is the armpit airport of the northeast. CLT or PIT are far and above PHL in convenience, service and reliability. The people who work in PHL are rude, insolent and could care less if they do their jobs or not. It's not just US but DL, AA, CO, UA and any of the other carriers save for SW.

They might have the population dynamics to support a lot of service but they sure as [email protected]%& don't have the people skills to deliver it. I would avoid PHL like a plague and generally do opting for CLT, CVG or ATL as alternatives.

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now. I have a friend who is a gate agent in BNA. 99% of the complaints and problems he must deal with originate and end with PHL. Someone needs to bulldoze that place and start it all over again.
 
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turk223
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 6:23 am

When US started service to BGI, it was originally a few times a week service from PHL. At one time, it was a daily service... It was great for me living in PVD - great fares and a convenient schedule. I only flew the route thee times, and I was never delayed more than an hour... no big thing.

Later, CLT to BGI service started... Later, PHL was reduced to a few days a week again and now there is only 1 x per week from PHL and CLT. Is the PHL service ending to BGI as well?

My opinion? 1 x per week is very inconvenient. Not everyone can travel on a Saturday or can be on vacation for one week increments... PHL I think had some good O&D market traffic.

Most Barbadians wouldn't connect through CLT as it's not "traditional"... there more accustomed to MIA or JFK. But, I think Americans don't have too much of a preference other than frequent flyer miles and cost of airfares...

This is a bit disjointed, but all I'm saying is I think a more prudent service decision for US would be increased frequency to some of the Caribbean destinations - whether from PHL or CLT - and to consider passengers originating in the Caribbean as well... non-stops to markets where there is a large draw for West Indians would be greatly appreciated!

AND! AA has a near monopoly in BGI now to the USA - never a good outcome for the passenger...
 
vega
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 7:29 am

My Input to this convoluted and in many cases, personal PHL bashing, rather than factually relevant discussion of the Thread intent:
The cuts are SEASONAL adjustments. The STT and AUA non-stops are scheduled to return for the Winter. SXM is not "currently" scheduled.
PIT will likely continue to be downgraded by US and will not be miraculously saved by WN or DL - why? Because for it's catchment size and demographics, it's already over served. CLT serves US as a domestic "connecting" Hub, not as a major O&D source and had the DL merger been successful, it was projected to become a "commuter" feeder hub. US's profits at PHL are NOT primarily International - that's ludicrous to assume. They have 37% of all Domestic Traffic and international routes are substantially cut back in Winter, while US's profits are not significantly affected - anyone is invited to prove me incorrect. It is, however, a valid assumption that International Flights as a group have generally been more profitable than their Domestic counterparts.

The reason PHL is a US major hub is the same reason NYC is a major CO hub, the annual DOMESTIC O&D, supported by International.

PHL = 18M (Domestic) / 4.11M International
CLT = 7M (Domestic) / 1.8M International (about 80% Caribbean)
PIT = 7M (Domestic) / 181K International

Examples of Daily O&D 3rd Qtr 2006:

PHL - PHX 841
CLT - PHX 286

PHL-LAX 1706
CLT-LAX 573

PHL-SFO 983
CLT-SFO 499

PHL-ORD 3042
CLT-ORD 1267

If US abandoned PHL, others would quickly move in for the O&D and most probably run their operation quite a bit more efficiently.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
n710ps
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35):

Having traveled,flown and worked in this profession since fresh out of high school I would say it is a gleaming yes. They pulled soo much direct out of LGA because LGA market is not the place and JFK is the sewer of the world as far as I am concerned and I am a NY native. Delta and American have constant behind the scenes issues with JFK. LGA is getting better though. You will see gradual improvements with the up and coming airspace mods that will take place. Now if PHL controllers could only learn to space things out when they are running multiple runways I would be gracious. If CLT can do it and LGA why cant PHL do it? Being an insider helps. I will not deny PHL has many fault but last I checked ORD is the biggest crap dump on the planet. Yet no one ever knocks AA or UAL for it or at least not soo much. Excuse me for being slightly partial but as you might guess by my ID name I proudly fly the flag and have for most of my professional career in one form or another thus so far.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
MaverickM11
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 47):
Excuse me for being slightly partial

I'm not sure what your point is or what you're responding to?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
usairways85
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RE: US Continues To Move Caribbean From PHL

Thu May 31, 2007 8:08 am

The one thing i question then is what routes are these freed up aircraft being used for. The recent trend has clearly been to focus on international travel and yet US continues to downsize its caribbean operation from both CLT and PHL, and simply does not have the aircraft for long haul expansion

US has quickly fallen behind CO who had a surge in international flts a few years ago and DL who has had a resurgance recently.

US wisely figured out that CLT is the optimal connecting point for caribbean flts, yet that does not mean they should lose focus on PHL. I understand why some of the smaller island flts where moved from PHL to CLT or just cancelled from PHL, but given PHL's O&D and just an altermative connecting point PHL should be able to handle 3 or 4 times weekly flts to these listed islands. I am just saying that it doesn't really make sense if these aircraft are being put on routes that they compete heavily with WN, FL and the likes rather than caribbean routes they have a near monopoly on disregarding connections on other carriers

Normal paxs unlike ourselves probably look for price first but also consider nonstop vs. connections. On US they see limited options a week through CLT or various options on AA through SJU and MIA. And don't forget anyone in the NE can easily fly through EWR on CO. I infact drove from south jersey to EWR to fly EWR-FCO 6 months ago because it was $800 cheaper than US from PHL, i almost did the same thing a month ago on EWR-SJU but i waited too long and the price ended up about the same.


I know besides PHL US' hubs have relatively weak O&D numbers but only having one hub as a focus to a particular region doesn't always make sense. CLT to the caribbean, PHX to mexico, PHL to Europe. I am not saying US should fly more CLT flts to Europe for the hell of it, but some overlapping will give paxs more flexibilty.

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