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flynavy
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Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 8:05 am

In the Navy, we wash our jets every 14 days on shore and every 7 days at sea. Otherwise, corrosion would literally consume them. Anyone want to take a guess when this SAS A340 last saw the wash rack?


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redflyer
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 8:21 am

Just out of curiosity, if you didn't wash your jets on Day 14 (or Day 7 as the case may be), would that keep them from flying on a mission?
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
flynavy
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 8:29 am

Technicially, yes. Aircraft washes are issued in the system as downing discrepancies.
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EMBQA
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 8:34 am

Commercial aircraft don't make money sitting on the ground being washed. Their ground time is very limited. I'll also guess the fly 100x more a month then your Navy jets do.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Anyone want to take a guess when this SAS A340 last saw the wash rack?

More recently than these?  Smile .....

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4):
More recently than these? .....

Sorry pal, but you seem to be lost. The page you requested does not exist. But don't worry, go here and things might clear up.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
I'll also guess the fly 100x more a month then your Navy jets do.

Plus the navy doesn't have to worry about making a profit.  Smile
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 5):
The page you requested does not exist. But don't worry, go here and things might clear up.

Let's try that again..... Smile

https://www.airliners.net/search/phot...truecount=false&engine_version=6.0
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
STARalliance24
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 am

Thats not the only dirty aircraft out there!


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ayubogg
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 3:06 pm

I'm gonna take a guess here and say that AF isn't too worried about outside looks. "it's what's inside that counts" Shame really, because I have heard people judge an ENTIRE nation based on an airline.
Alba gu bràth
 
EFHK
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Anyone want to take a guess when this SAS A340 last saw the wash rack?

Knowing SAS, not for a while because the washing personnel have been on strike for who knows how long...  sarcastic 
 
ONTFlyer
Posts: 312
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 6:58 pm

Was in SJC two Saturdays ago and saw a Mexicana aircraft that was the dirtiest that I have ever personally seen. Just wish I had my camera with me! Dang it! Quite a sight believe me considering just about every other time I've seen any MX airplanes most have looked great. Maybe this particular A320 slipped through the cracks so-to-speak when it came to wash day.  biggrin 

ONT
Doin' just fine thanks...
 
Biman
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting ONTFlyer (Reply 10):
Was in SJC two Saturdays ago and saw a Mexicana aircraft that was the dirtiest that I have ever personally seen. Just wish I had my camera with me! Dang it! Quite a sight believe me considering just about every other time I've seen any MX airplanes most have looked great. Maybe this particular A320 slipped through the cracks so-to-speak when it came to wash day.

must be all the construction work going with the new terminal at SJC .. lol .. was there yesterday  Smile
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Wed May 30, 2007 11:51 pm

The only "noticeable" dirty aircrafts are those that have light colours, however, it doesn't mean that all the other airlines whose color schemes are darker are any cleaner.
 
wcs
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 8):
I'm gonna take a guess here and say that AF isn't too worried about outside looks. "it's what's inside that counts" Shame really, because I have heard people judge an ENTIRE nation based on an airline.

We here at AF have an Autowash System. It is designed to do the job more than often, even if it's not needed. We call it the "Rain", and the schedule is available at www.weather.com, or to be really accurate, www.meteo.fr

Now you can blame either the lack of rain and a very limited chemicals on the air, and you have such pictures. There is nothing we can do about that, except call a famous Indian Chief to help, if needed.

As you can see with others pictures, we are totally open to license this reliable, patented system Big grin

[Edited 2007-05-30 17:07:43]
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 12:15 am

WCS  bigthumbsup 
SAS planes do have a tendency to look dirty, but that's what you get with light fuselages. It would be pretty dull if all planes were concrete gray from the shop  Smile
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RobK
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting WCS (Reply 13):
We here at AF have an Autowash System. It is designed to do the job more than often, even if it's not needed. We call it the "Rain", and the schedule is available at www.weather.com, or to be really accurate, www.meteo.fr

 rotfl 

R
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting EFHK (Reply 9):
Knowing SAS, not for a while because the washing personnel have been on strike for who knows how long...

SAS Cabin Crew End Strike (by TACAA320 May 29 2007 in Civil Aviation)
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
777jaah
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 12:30 am

Sometimes other tend to follow that AF look.......




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RJAF
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 1:25 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that a wash costs around USD 15,000 for an aircraft the size of an L-1011!. That aint cheap!
Chance favors the prepared mind
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 1:26 am

Out here its an Average Twice a week.But Lightere colours do look more Dirty.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jycarlisle
Posts: 242
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting WCS (Reply 13):
We here at AF have an Autowash System. It is designed to do the job more than often, even if it's not needed. We call it the "Rain", and the schedule is available at www.weather.com, or to be really accurate, www.meteo.fr

Now you can blame either the lack of rain and a very limited chemicals on the air, and you have such pictures. There is nothing we can do about that, except call a famous Indian Chief to help, if needed.

As you can see with others pictures, we are totally open to license this reliable, patented system

Clever, I like it.

Sante,
Jeremy Carlisle
"CHANGE IS: CLEAN PLANES AND DIRTY MARTINIS" (DL)
 
highflyer9790
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 1:54 am

how do you wash an aircraft? i bet there aren't any automatic ones like for cars  wink 
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andrewuber
Posts: 2142
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting RJAF (Reply 18):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that a wash costs around USD 15,000 for an aircraft the size of an L-1011!. That aint cheap!

Maybe in Jordan it costs that much - in North America it's a small fraction of that.

Most commercial airliners are on a 30 or 60 day wash cycle, and cargo birds are usually aroun 90 days. Washing aircraft is extraordinarily expensive to do (due to insurance required by airlines and airports, and due to permits required by airports). A lot of airports do not even allow washing. Some allow it with extensive reclaiming systems, and that can get very expensive as well.

Looks like Air France needs to call these guys: www.cleanjet.net

Drew  wave 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
airtrainer
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting WCS (Reply 13):
We here at AF have an Autowash System. It is designed to do the job more than often, even if it's not needed. We call it the "Rain", and the schedule is available at www.weather.com, or to be really accurate, www.meteo.fr

Now you can blame either the lack of rain and a very limited chemicals on the air, and you have such pictures. There is nothing we can do about that, except call a famous Indian Chief to help, if needed.

Grrreat !  Smile

Now, to all the people who always make jokes about AF planes : do you wash your car all the time to keep it clean ? Just kidding, I'm going to the autowash with mine...
Life is short : eat dessert first !
 
Grbld
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 22):
Maybe in Jordan it costs that much - in North America it's a small fraction of that.

Yes, and how much do you think that downtime costs?
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 3:25 am

In the US, insurance companies have this category for "pride of ownership" when it comes to homeowners insurance. They'll refuse to insure your house if it's dirty on the outside and/or needs paint.  Wink
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n710ps
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 3:28 am

Delta does a good job to compete with the AF how dirty can we be department so I have seen recently as well.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting RJAF (Reply 18):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that a wash costs around USD 15,000 for an aircraft the size of an L-1011!. That aint cheap!

Jeez, I'd be happy to do it for say, half that price!
 
plunaaircanada
Posts: 95
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 27):
Jeez, I'd be happy to do it for say, half that price!

I would do it for free, not joking
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 4:23 am

Do they just wash planes ore do they it in combine with maintenance??
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 4:24 am

WOW that SAS bird is a mess!

Obviously a white fuselage is going to look a lot dirtier a lot more quickly than a darker / more colourful / etc fuselage. Colour schemes like (old) LAN, Aer Lingus, Aeroflot, etc will still appear to look a lot cleaner on day 90 than an AF, BA, DL one. Its like the difference between a plain and a patterened carpet. Dirt / tread patterns / stains are more obvious where there is nothing to distract the attention.

On a similar note, do bear metal finishes, a la AA and (old) AM need less frequent washing, I know they need to be polished, but what about actual washing?

Seriously, though, I know windows can be bought with some sort of chemical film which does "self clean". Could such a film be placed on aircraft? Or would this be too complex / heavy?

Brian.
 
swiftski
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Anyone want to take a guess when this SAS A340 last saw the wash rack?



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4):
More recently than these?  

Exactly; Try fly Air France!
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 4:47 am

I knew an Air Frace plane would show up on this thread. They have a very small water bill but use a lot of fuel. They would do even better if they would only fly at night. Thank God this is not about dirty trucks. Mine needs to sand-blasted.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
phxplanes
Posts: 381
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 22):
Most commercial airliners are on a 30 or 60 day wash cycle, and cargo birds are usually aroun 90 days.

I really dont think any airlines just pull there aircraft out of service to go and be washed every couple months. That is a huge waist of money. Maybe people who have there own plane wash it a lot but I dont think its an airlines number one priority to wash there planes every month. I work at US and most planes have grease and dirt all over the belly and the engines you just cant see it from far away because of the dark blue paint.

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Since we are kind of on the subject, when planes go to be painted are the cleaned and then painted over or is all the paint sanded off?
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 5:33 am

About SK's plane, my guess is a few months maybe?

To me, dirty machines are also a sign of heavy use, itself a sign of good fleet management by the airline. And some colors show dust more than others I assume.

Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 8):
Shame really, because I have heard people judge an ENTIRE nation based on an airline.

... and walking on the same nation's sidewalks will prove them right, unfortunately.... By having grown up there, i know what I'm talking about to say the least.
When I doubt... go running!
 
MakeMinesLAX
Posts: 482
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 7):
Thats not the only dirty aircraft out there!

The KLM Fokker is an interesting example. I assume that's the APU exhaust above the starboard engine, and it seems to be responsible for the soot on the tail. Here's a shot of the (clean) port side on the exact same day (Dec 2, 2006):

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I guess it does get scrubbed occasionally, but gets dirty again right away (photos dated Sep 1 and Oct 18, 2003):

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Interestingly enough, this aircraft was involved in a landing incident (with a dirty tail, of course):

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This reminds me of the good ol' days of Western's sooty 737s:

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airbuster
Posts: 489
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 7:07 am

A few weeks ago i read that a dirty 747 carrys around 400kg of dirt around.....now that is a lot!
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Phxplanes (Reply 33):
I really dont think any airlines just pull there aircraft out of service to go and be washed every couple months. That is a huge waist of money. Maybe people who have there own plane wash it a lot but I dont think its an airlines number one priority to wash there planes every month. I work at US and most planes have grease and dirt all over the belly and the engines you just cant see it from far away because of the dark blue paint.

Where did I say we pull aircraft out of service every couple of months for washing???

Quoting Grbld (Reply 24):
Yes, and how much do you think that downtime costs?

It costs absolutely NOTHING - because we do not create downtime for cleaning and washing. We do our cleaning and washing DURING downtime, not the other way around. An aircraft is not in flight 24 hours a day, 365 days per year.

Quoting Airbuster (Reply 36):
A few weeks ago i read that a dirty 747 carrys around 400kg of dirt around.....now that is a lot!

While the dirt can weigh a considerable amount - especially over such a large surface area - an even bigger problem is parasitic drag. This is often how these weight figures are created - the excess drag is equivelant to carrying around 400kg of dead weight. This does not necessarily mean there are 400 kilos of dirt onboard. It does mean excessive fuel burn, which can be a problem. There are many other downfalls to having dirty aircraft as well...

Drew  wave 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
icycle
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:47 am

RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 7:47 am

Forget aesthetics.

Doesn't a dirty plane create drag, hence, consume more fuel??

Bill
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 21):
how do you wash an aircraft? i bet there aren't any automatic ones like for cars

JL has a special aircraft washing facility at NRT, a bit like a drive-through car wash but much bigger. See the item dated September 8 in the following link and the upper right hand photo. I have seen a better photo of this facility with a 747 parked under it. I recall an article on this when it was built some years ago. It was apparently the first such equipment of its type dedicated to washing widebody aircraft.
http://www.jal.com/en/environment/06topics.html
 
Baron52ta
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:52 am

RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting WCS (Reply 13):
We here at AF have an Autowash System. It is designed to do the job more than often, even if it's not needed. We call it the "Rain",

I don't know if you are aware but rain tends to be dirty( due to how it forms) so rain won't clean the plane in the first place
 
lostturttle
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 9:06 am

How many of you remember Yellowbird (Northeast Airlines) They operated from the the 40's to early 70's. I remember seeing their 727's in Bermuda with the bright yellow paint scheme. Only problem with yellow is it showed the black soot from the engines!



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wcs
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 4:47 pm

Hi,

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 40):
I don't know if you are aware but rain tends to be dirty( due to how it forms) so rain won't clean the plane in the first place

I forgot to add yesterday that AF finally withdraws the system due to crappy results. Licenses still available by the way. Big grin
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HAWK21M
Posts: 30130
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RE: Dirty Aircraft

Thu May 31, 2007 5:17 pm

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 21):
how do you wash an aircraft

Get 15-20 folks & Long Mops with Soapwater.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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