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JAL777
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AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:17 pm

I guess you can take this with a grain of salt (or maybe the whole salt shaker).

Reliable sources inside the aviation industry have told Flightblogger that American Airlines intends to place a "massive" narrow and wide-body order at the Paris Air Show that includes:

- Boeing 787s - 100-125 firm, plus another 100 options
- Additional Boeing 777s - firm number unknown
- Boeing 737s - 100 firm, options unknown


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rjpieces
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:19 pm

If that is true, it would be quite amazing...I guess we'll see in a few days!
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commavia
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:21 pm

If this is true, which certainly remains to be seen, it is going to reverberate hugely over the U.S. airline industry. AA has been basically treading water in reverse for the last six years since 9/11, and an order for over 200 new narrow- and wide-body aircraft, including the largest single order to-date for the incredibly popular 787, would be a fairly strong signal to the markets, to customers, and to competitors. Not to mention that, as many have widely expected, if AA is awarded Boeing's exclusive North American GoldCare partnership deal for the 787, it is going to be a massive boon for AA's M&E organization.

Should be interesting to see if it actually happens.
 
bringiton
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:25 pm

It would eventually happen for sure , but wether or not at paris remains to be seen!
 
PRAirbus
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:28 pm

Let's hope it would be quite exciting...I guess it would be now or never approach from AA/AMR before things get heated in-house w/contract negotiations w/pilots, FA's, mechanics, etc...
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:29 pm

If the rumor is accurate, it will be interesting to see the delivery schedules for the aircraft, as well as what aircraft will be retired during the timeframe for deliveries.

The logical assumption is that the 737s will mostly replace MD-80s and/or ex-TW 757s, as opposed to a significant increase in the size of the narrowbody fleet.

On the other hand, AA is in need of more widebodies to add to its international flying. My guess is that the 787s will start out as growth in the size of the widebody fleet, but later deliveries, particularly the options, will be 767 replacements.

The additional 777s will be strictly growth.

In will be interesting to see how the order plays out in labor negotiations.
 
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:30 pm

So would the 777s be more 777-200ERs or -200LRs or -300ERs...?
 
777STL
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:30 pm

So where is AA going to get the money to buy all these planes?
PHX based
 
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wilcharl
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:30 pm

Boeing and AA have worked out how to polish the 787 to a high gloss sleek silver finish. This is not unlike the stripping of the A300s after delivery from Airbus in the gray scheme (humor here folks)
 
bringiton
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 8):
So where is AA going to get the money to buy all these planes?

Same place every1 else gets it from  Wink
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:32 pm

Quoting JAL777 (Thread starter):
- Boeing 787s - 100-125 firm, plus another 100 options
- Additional Boeing 777s - firm number unknown
- Boeing 737s - 100 firm, options unknown

What's that represent...about a 20+ Billion dollar oder?
 
777STL
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 10):
Same place every1 else gets it from

Via bankruptcy protection? :p
PHX based
 
CO777DAL
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting JAL777 (Thread starter):
- Boeing 787s - 100-125 firm, plus another 100 options
- Additional Boeing 777s - firm number unknown
- Boeing 737s - 100 firm, options unknown

One question. Where is AA going to get that kind of money???? They are not even paying employees 100% of their pay, much less come up with the money for an order that size.
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
bigjku
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 13):
One question. Where is AA going to get that kind of money???? They are not even paying employees 100% of their pay, much less come up with the money for an order that size.

I think this order is way too big, but they will get the money from a bank like everyone else. Banks are willing to loan money for assets they can sell if they have to. They are not willing to loan money to fund salary hikes for overpaid aircrew.
 
kaitak744
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777

Wed May 30, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting JAL777 (Thread starter):
- Boeing 787s - 100-125 firm, plus another 100 options
- Additional Boeing 777s - firm number unknown
- Boeing 737s - 100 firm, options unknown

If true, I would guess:
20-30 787-3
30-40 787-8
30-40 787-9
firm remaining options for 777-200ERs.
firm remaining options for 737-800s. (no new order, especially not for 100 frames. It would be silly to do so, given that the 737RS is right around the corner)

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 10):
Quoting 777STL (Reply 8):
So where is AA going to get the money to buy all these planes?

Same place every1 else gets it from Wink

Of coarse. NorthWest ordered a bunch of 787s, and went into bankruptcy right after.
 
osiris30
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 11):
What's that represent...about a 20+ Billion dollar oder?

Well not sure it's an oder.. but ya I came up with about 20B myself (roughly).

That's one mother of an order if it happens.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
n710ps
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:42 pm

AA has the money, trust me. They turned a nice profit, have a pretty good credit report under their sleeve and if that a hole Aprey is getting the payoffs he is theres got to be cash someplace.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Also, retiring older and less-efficient planes will free-up operating capital that can be used to finance new aircraft.
 
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
So would the 777s be more 777-200ERs or -200LRs or -300ERs..

AA uses RR Powered engines on the 772's in their fleet, so no chance you will see AA take either the 200LR's or 300ER with GE powerplants when or if this order would ever go through.
Where did everybody go?
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 19):
AA uses RR Powered engines on the 772's in their fleet, so no chance you will see AA take either the 200LR's or 300ER with GE powerplants when or if this order would ever go through.

Very true. Just ask CX.  duck 
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 12:54 pm

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 19):
AA uses RR Powered engines on the 772's in their fleet, so no chance you will see AA take either the 200LR's or 300ER with GE powerplants when or if this order would ever go through.

Heard that one before, and then seen SQ and DL order 777's with the GE's I don't think that if the airline really wants to operate routes that make sense with an LR or an ER are going to let the engines stop them
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Stitch
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 21):
Heard that one before, and then seen SQ and DL order 777's with the GE's I don't think that if the airline really wants to operate routes that make sense with an LR or an ER are going to let the engines stop them...

Yup. When the 777-X was being developed, AA wanted RR power, but was willing to take GE or P&W if Boeing would make a lighter 777-200ER. Since what came out of that program was the heavy 777-200LR and 777-300ER, AA didn't buy because it didn't fit their needs.

Of all the RR operators, only CX was "adamant" that if it didn't have RR they wouldn't buy it, but even they eventually capitulated with the 777-300ER (and perhaps 747-8I/747-8F).
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 1:11 pm

For what is it worth, I was told this in January minus the 777 part from a good source and asked to keep quiet until it leaked. We'll see if it happens. While I am hesitant to guess on the size of the order, I personally am confident there will be an order of some size. The 737 order may include variants other than -800 family, the 787 order would likely be a mix of -3s and -8s.

[Edited 2007-05-30 06:14:00]
a.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
So would the 777s be more 777-200ERs or -200LRs or -300ERs...?

I just imagine AA will stick with -ERs. Though the -LR is a possibility, the -300 is a no go. AA has been down the road of the larger aircraft and I just do not see them going back. Certainly there is no -LR ordered when the -ER will already out-fly the pilots [contract]. I don't really know the details of it, but apparently it was a problem with DFW-China.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 8):
So where is AA going to get the money to buy all these planes?

I don't think AA would have too much trouble financing the planes. My question is if they want that kind of debt. I don't think so. I speculate AA will go down a much slower path of acquisition, ordering a few here and there. There may be a relatively large order initially, but certainly not enough to replace all of one type, in one order.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 6):
On the other hand, AA is in need of more widebodies to add to its international flying.

Doesn't AA have a low utilization of their widebody fleet? I know there has been a discussion on the low utilization of their 777 fleet. Though there are some consequences to increasing utilization, AA has plenty of widebody fleet if they are in need, just by changing rotations. DL and UA needed to do it, AA should do it (if they need widebodies so bad).

M
 
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Devilfish
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 1:27 pm

Not to mention that GE Capital might be a good financing source.
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grantcv
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 2:39 pm

Wouldn't an order of this size pretty much signal a second 787 assembly line? Otherwise, when would these deliveries begin? 2013?
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 2:47 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 21):
Heard that one before, and then seen SQ and DL order 777's with the GE's I don't think that if the airline really wants to operate routes that make sense with an LR or an ER are going to let the engines stop them...

Yup. When the 777-X was being developed, AA wanted RR power, but was willing to take GE or P&W if Boeing would make a lighter 777-200ER. Since what came out of that program was the heavy 777-200LR and 777-300ER, AA didn't buy because it didn't fit their needs.

Of all the RR operators, only CX was "adamant" that if it didn't have RR they wouldn't buy it, but even they eventually capitulated with the 777-300ER (and perhaps 747-8I/747-8F).

..while I'm a bit skeptical on AA getting the -200LR (especially due to to pilot contracts/etc), AA does have an excellent m/x facility more than capabable of handling a subset of 10 GE -200LRs...but like I said, probably isn't happening.. no ...

..would be fun to speculate though where they would fly those -200LRs to....such as ORD-BOM and MIA-JNB... Smile
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siromega
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777

Wed May 30, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 15):
It would be silly to do so, given that the 737RS is right around the corner)

I wouldn't be surprised if AA had 737RS and 738 arrives coming in parallel once the 737RS EIS occurs, at least for a little while, plus the ability to roll some 738s into a 737RS order depending on their delivery schedule. AA has a crapload of NB planes to replace over the next 10 years. IF the 737RS EIS is in mid/late 2013, I'd expect the 737 line to be open until sometime in 2015 (basically, add 18-30 months for the cutover). And besides, I'm sure they'll get a good deal on those 738s.

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 26):
Wouldn't an order of this size pretty much signal a second 787 assembly line? Otherwise, when would these deliveries begin? 2013?

I'm sure Boeing reserved some slots early for AA and other potential big buyers. Maybe not 2008 but mid 2009 and onwards.
 
whoopwhoop
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 3:12 pm

How are they going to polish carbon fiber!  Wink

Rumor is, its Delta making the deal.  old 
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting WhoopWhoop (Reply 29):
Rumor is, its Delta making the deal

Actualy, no. Rumour is, that American Airlines is making the deal. I was wondering how long until a Delta fan would come along, since Delta fan's seemed so positive they were going to have the next big order and win the 787 Goldcare contract. Not saying it isn't going to happen, but the rumours lead towards AA, not Delta.
a.
 
whoopwhoop
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 30):
Actualy, no. Rumour is,

Good line there!  scratchchin 
 
flydreamliner
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 16):
Well not sure it's an oder.. but ya I came up with about 20B myself (roughly).

Well, my understanding is that CO, DL, and AA pay bottom dollar on their orders from Boeing, and in return, they can buy any airplane they want, so long as it comes from Seattle. My guess is on this order, AA would get a very significant discount.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 25):
Not to mention that GE Capital might be a good financing source.

GE Capital loves to finance all sorts of airplanes for people, a lot of them tend to have GE engines under the wing, whereas I think AA would want Trents under their 777 and 787s yet to be ordered.

AA tends to be conservative in their decisions, but anything can happen. Paris will certainly be exciting, that's for sure.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
MCIGuy
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting WhoopWhoop (Reply 29):
How are they going to polish carbon fiber!

Good time for a livery change, no?  Wink

This order alone would put the 787 near the 700 order mark. 100 firm would be nice, but how many 767s and A300s need to be replaced in the next few years?
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eraugrad02
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 3:47 pm

I bet some of the 737's will be -900ER. Why? Because a friend whome flys for fedex told me that they are in deed getting there big batch of 757's from AA.
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scbriml
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 31):
My guess is on this order, AA would get a very significant discount.

I believe their now defunct "exclusivity contract" with Boeing guaranteed AA, CO & DL the minimum price that any airline had paid for the model being ordered. If, as many suspect, a "gentlemen's agreement" still operates in place of the contract, then AA would presumably be getting ANA levels of discount for a 787 order. This would obviously be a very nice order for Boeing, but somewhat less profitable than if it was anyone other than AA, CO or DL placing it.

I have no doubt that AA will eventually order this number of planes, but I'd be slightly surprised if it was in one hit and at Paris this year.
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bringiton
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 34):
This would obviously be a very nice order for Boeing, but somewhat less profitable than if it was anyone other than AA, CO or DL placing

That is true , and large orders (50+ in one go) are usually like that . Its those batches of 10's as many would say that get a pretty good discount . But even with a chunky discount boeing will good money through the sheer volume and that is how you make money with these large orders from loyal customers . It would be interesting to see how these independent evaluaters evaluate the discounts . I would imagine that for the 787 they would be between 40-50% , much like what Airbus has done for the SU order IIRC.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 4:05 pm

There is plenty of "chrome" paints that will stick to a CF barrel and give off a nice shiny reflection. Now the real question is does AA want to go to the extra weight and expense of fancy paint when plain ol white served them in the past?
 
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 4:20 pm

777-200ERs? Well, after the recent small BA order for 777-200ERs and with El Al receiving two more this summer and with two more still to come for Thai, seems like there may still be life in the Trent 800 yet!  Smile
 
UAL777UK
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 4:37 pm

I for one hope this report is true and AA at least place a signifcant order for the 787, as this will surely force UA's hand and see them likewise follow up with a large order, to stay competitive with there biggest rival.
 
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American 767
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 5:39 pm

Somewhere in the article posted above on the link, it says:

American has already announced that they will be retiring their non-ER 767-200s

The non ER models are already retired, 12 (8 of which are the non ER 200's) have been grounded for a while. I know that N301AA and N302AA are already cannibalized. American has 73 767's currently in service, 15 of which being 200 ER's and the remaining 58 are 300ER's. The remaining 200ER's will continue to fly on the JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO transcon routes a few more years until at least 2010. The youngest 200ER is nearly 20 years old. It is likely that the 762ER replacement in the early 2010's will be the 783. The 788 could be the A300 replacement in the mid 2010's, however I'm not so sure about the cargo capacity of the 788 compared to that of the A300-600. If Boeing comes out with a 787 variant whose cargo capacity matches that of the A300, that will be for sure the A300 replacement at AA.

They may add a few 777-200ER's or LR's but not 300 (not even ER's) because they don't need to have 777-300/300ER's. The power plant, GE being the only engine offered on the 300ER, isn't the only reason not to order the airplane, the other reason is they don't need an aircraft with a capacity that high. American needs medium capacity aircraft with long range.

They may add all the remaining 737-800's they still have on firm order but I don't think they will add any more after this because as others have pointed out the 737RS is expected to come out in the mid 2010's. An order for 900ER's is not excluded.

Future will tell.

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zvezda
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 5:52 pm

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 25):
Wouldn't an order of this size pretty much signal a second 787 assembly line?

No, if the suppliers can keep up, it makes much more sense for Boeing to increase the tempo on their existing final assembly line.
 
bringiton
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 6:23 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 40):
No, if the suppliers can keep up, it makes much more sense for Boeing to increase the tempo on their existing final assembly line.

Exactly , you want the first line to work at capacity before you think of a second one . Moreover IIRC they will try to increase the ammount of aircrafts that can be assembled simultaneously before they think abut making an investment . It will all be upto the suppliers because they are the ones who cannot up the rate as easily as boeing.
 
aa1818
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 6:34 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 16):
AA has the money, trust me. They turned a nice profit, have a pretty good credit report under their sleeve and if that a hole Aprey is getting the payoffs he is theres got to be cash someplace.

Doesn't AA have very large cash reserves (albiet with large debt too). They won't have a problem finding finance either. Banks and Boeing will line up to provide money for this purchase. Heck, if lending agencies will lend money to NW, DL, US and UA when they were on the brink of collapse, they would more than lend money to a stable airline showing no signs of weakness!!!

Great news if it's true and would be fantastic for the B v A showdown at Paris, because I'm sure Airbus will be announcing at least 60 orders per day!!!! QR, Chinese Airlines, GF? some European airlines, many A320s, AV etc!!

AA1818
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mush
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777

Wed May 30, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 23):

I don't think AA would have too much trouble financing the planes. My question is if they want that kind of debt. I don't think so.

The debt won't be incurred until delivery of the airplane. They can order all they want using cash reserves as deposits and the debt will be accrued at a much more steady pace with delivery of aircraft.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 32):

This order alone would put the 787 near the 700 order mark. 100 firm would be nice, but how many 767s and A300s need to be replaced in the next few years?

I would think all of them will be coming due for replacement in the next 10 years. At 10 787s a year it works out okay.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 34):

I believe their now defunct "exclusivity contract" with Boeing guaranteed AA, CO & DL the minimum price that any airline had paid for the model being ordered. If, as many suspect, a "gentlemen's agreement" still operates in place of the contract, then AA would presumably be getting ANA levels of discount for a 787 order. This would obviously be a very nice order for Boeing, but somewhat less profitable than if it was anyone other than AA, CO or DL placing it.

Who knows what the agreement said? Maybe Boeing had it written that AA, CO, and DL would get the lowest price paid for the aircraft in the last year. It would be stupid for Boeing not to have something like this. Otherwise, AA, CO, and DL would be able to get 737s for the same price that O'Leary got them for when he "raped Boeing." There is not much chance of Boeing giving anybody the rumored prices in this "sellers market" that A and B are in.

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 41):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 40):
No, if the suppliers can keep up, it makes much more sense for Boeing to increase the tempo on their existing final assembly line.

Exactly , you want the first line to work at capacity before you think of a second one . Moreover IIRC they will try to increase the ammount of aircrafts that can be assembled simultaneously before they think abut making an investment . It will all be upto the suppliers because they are the ones who cannot up the rate as easily as boeing.

To a point...what I mean is that you don't necessarily want to run the line at max capacity. If their is a machinist strike like the one that affected 737 deliveries a few years ago you will never be able to catch up. Or if their is a snag on the moving assembly line and it will take 48 hours to fix you won't have much slack in the line to absorb the loss in time and deliveries may be affected forcing Boeing to either cut corners to get the planes out or to pay late fees.


thanks,
mush
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cricket
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RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 8:13 pm

According to the AA folks at India, after the success of ORD-DEL they want to expand their presence here - connecting DFW to India and also adding BOM to their list here, they even spoke about BLR. Now DFW to anywhere in India is a huge stretch for a non-stop flight on the 77-200ER (DL's JFK-BOM goes restricted) and reaching BOM and BLR from ORD also is a tad too much for the 777-200ER.
Now, while I'm not insinuating that AA will order a mini-fleet of LR's for the Indian market (or will they?), these routes will certainly be within the capability of the 787-9. Or will AA launch the 787-10?
been there, flown that
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19941
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 8:15 pm

Quoting Mush (Reply 43):
Maybe Boeing had it written that AA, CO, and DL would get the lowest price paid for the aircraft in the last year.

I don't know. I had read that the contracts guaranteed the airlines the best price for any model they purchased. Given the size of the three airlines involved and the fact this was a 20-year deal, even if they did get best prices (adjusted for inflation presumably), it would still be a great deal for Boeing.

While searching to try and find some info on the terms of the contract, I did find the following:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/1997/news.release.970723.html

Quote:
Finally, although Boeing questions whether the company's "exclusive" agreements with its U.S. customers should be the subject of demands by the European Commission, to secure merger approval Boeing further agreed not to enforce the exclusivity provisions in its existing agreements with American Airlines, Delta Airlines and Continental Airlines. The agreements remain otherwise unaffected.

I don't know how many people realised the contracts were actually still in place, and that Boeing (very big of them smile  ), wouldn't enforce exclusivity. So it looks as though the original terms would still apply. Wow!

Also of interest in the same document:

Quote:
Boeing agreed not to enter into any new "exclusive" supplier agreements with commercial aircraft purchasers until Aug. 1, 2007

p.s. Chrome wheeled, fuel injected and steppin out over the line  wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
norcal
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:44 am

RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 34):
I believe their now defunct "exclusivity contract" with Boeing guaranteed AA, CO & DL the minimum price that any airline had paid for the model being ordered. If, as many suspect, a "gentlemen's agreement" still operates in place of the contract, then AA would presumably be getting ANA levels of discount for a 787 order.

CO got about a 35-38% discount (I'll have to check with my contact there to get the exact figure) on their 787s, that seems pretty normal. AA might get more since they are going to order 4x the number that CO did.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting Mush (Reply 43):
To a point...what I mean is that you don't necessarily want to run the line at max capacity. If their (sic) is a machinist strike like the one that affected 737 deliveries a few years ago you will never be able to catch up. Or if their (sic) is a snag on the moving assembly line and it will take 48 hours to fix you won't have much slack in the line to absorb the loss in time and deliveries may be affected forcing Boeing to either cut corners to get the planes out or to pay late fees.

The theoretical maximum throughput of the existing 787 final assembly line is 40 per month. I don't expect to ever see it produce more than 25 per month. To increase production from 10 per month most certainly does not warrant a second line.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 16):
AA has the money, trust me. They turned a nice profit, have a pretty good credit report under their sleeve and if that a hole Aprey is getting the payoffs he is theres got to be cash someplace.

AA has the highest debt of any US airline and like all other US airlines has nil internally generated cash. They may have borrowed money but cash as the average person understands the term.
 
Corsair1107
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:29 pm

RE: AA Order At Paris - 100+ 787's, 100 737's, 777's?

Wed May 30, 2007 9:31 pm

Out of curiosity, how many used 767's and A300's could AA feed into the cargo conversion market?
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