Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
HeeseokKoo
Topic Author
Posts: 831
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:54 pm

LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Thu May 31, 2007 10:19 pm

I found load factor of LH's newest 3/w MUC-ICN-PUS of last April.

MUC-PUS is only 24%, and MUC-ICN is 59.2% which means 35.2% are for ICN. It is not surprising that more passengers board at ICN. Is it okay for the first month of new route? There were a lot of promotions such as double milege and special fares. Hope this PUS's first european lasts long.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Thu May 31, 2007 10:25 pm

What is the source of this information?

SailorOrion
 
HeeseokKoo
Topic Author
Posts: 831
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:54 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 1):
What is the source of this information?

A newspaper in Korea, www.traveltimes.co.kr
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
MUC-PUS is only 24%, and MUC-ICN is 59.2% which means 35.2% are for ICN.

I thought the way of calculating this stuff is a bit different?
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
airbazar
Posts: 10367
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
MUC-PUS is only 24%, and MUC-ICN is 59.2% which means 35.2% are for ICN.

Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't it be the other way around? 24+59= 83% load on MUC-ICN with with 59% getting off in ICN and the remaining 24% continuing on to PUS?
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4):
Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
MUC-PUS is only 24%, and MUC-ICN is 59.2% which means 35.2% are for ICN.

Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't it be the other way around? 24+59= 83% load on MUC-ICN with with 59% getting off in ICN and the remaining 24% continuing on to PUS?

Sounds reasonable, but: you cannot add the load factors for MUC-PUS and MUC-ICN, as until ICN, all pax are on the same aircraft.
But maybe it's the wording: If the original poster meant that on the MUC-ICN leg, 24% of the seats are occupied by pax headed to PUS and 59% of the seats are occupied by pax heading to ICN, then you're right about the 83% load factor on the MUC-ICN leg.

Sorry if I'm nit-picking.  Wink
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 3):

I thought the way of calculating this stuff is a bit different?

The aircraft configures F8C36Y197, so that's 241 seats

59% overall load factor to Seoul, including those continues to Busan, is about 142 people

So i guess that calculation of splitting percentage is right.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4):
Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't it be the other way around? 24+59= 83% load on MUC-ICN with with 59% getting off in ICN and the remaining 24% continuing on to PUS?

No. Because the figure of 59% includes those who are continue to PUS, but on the MUC - ICN portion. Unless LH calculates differently.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:36 am

Didnt NW fly to Pusan?
 
mucflyer
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 4:21 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:41 am

sorry, but the information given by the newspaper is obviously totaly wrong!
The LH718/719 flight is doing very well from the first day of operation. Clearly more than expected, and we expected of course an high load factor and yield...  Smile))))
cheers
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting MUCFLYER (Reply 8):
sorry, but the information given by the newspaper is obviously totaly wrong!
The LH718/719 flight is doing very well from the first day of operation. Clearly more than expected, and we expected of course an high load factor and yield..

Any chance of a frequency increase?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26559
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
Didnt NW fly to Pusan?

They still do. Daily from Tokyo.
a.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:15 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
Any chance of a frequency increase?

Good question. I have no official information, but as LH increases all intercontinental flights to dailies sooner or later we might see that as well. The bigger question to me is: When will PUS get a dedicated service (or will it at all?)?

SailorOrion
 
DALCE
Posts: 2016
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 11):
The bigger question to me is: When will PUS get a dedicated service (or will it at all?)?

Currently LH is operating a 3/7 service MUC-ICN-PUS which is running well, so I think LH will first increase into a 7/7 service before thinking of a direct MUC/FRA - PUS flight. But I don't see both an increase or a direct flight happen before LH is taking delivery of the first 380's which will free up 343/346 equipment to do so.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 12):
Currently LH is operating a 3/7 service MUC-ICN-PUS which is running well

The above load factor information shows the contrary: the operations are NOT running well.

Can we perhaps expect a suspension of service?

Rgs
 
vinniewinnie
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:23 am

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:57 pm

We need sources otherwise the info becomes totally unreliable and basically it will become a slanging match between 2 people both pretending they know better than the other...
 
HeeseokKoo
Topic Author
Posts: 831
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:54 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:16 pm

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 14):
We need sources

I believe the other reliable source will be available soon. I was really curious how it works since it is the first PUS's european route, and also it is the first and the only ICN's night departure european route.
 
ohsopc
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:22 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:39 pm

hmm slightly off topic but I wish LH still does MUC-BKK... the load factor on those flight were almost full all the time during the winter months... I think they just handed over the flight to TG
 
airbazar
Posts: 10367
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting Ohsopc (Reply 16):
the load factor on those flight were almost full all the time during the winter months

That should explain why they quit  Smile High load factor in Winter usually describes a predominantly leisure destination which equates to low yield or barely profitable operation. Better to leave that to the charters.
 
hoons90
Posts: 3835
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
The above load factor information shows the contrary: the operations are NOT running well.

Can we perhaps expect a suspension of service?

What about the cargo, though? And the loads up front..?
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:25 pm

Anyone know how much of a timeframe LH gives a destination before saying adios?
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
Can we perhaps expect a suspension of service?

no, we can't, as it is simply too early to say whether it will be succesful or not.

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 19):
Anyone know how much of a timeframe LH gives a destination before saying adios?

there are many services which are still not profitable and they haven't been cut, so they give 'em quite some time to develop.

also, the individual performance of one service is not necessarily an indication whether the service is overall successful regarding the entire network (e.g. what it contributes to other destinations in terms of revenue).
additionally, SLF alone can never be an indication whether a service performs well. if yields are high, low load factors can be sustainable, if SLF is low, high yields can make it work.

so a mere analysis of SLF won't give you a clue whether ICN/PUS ex MUC is performing according to expectations.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 20):
there are many services which are still not profitable and they haven't been cut, so they give 'em quite some time to develop.

And some entire airlines are still not profiable. For example, Qatar Airways has, as far as I know, never been profitable since they started flying 14 years ago, and their CEO has said that they have no plans to become profitable for another 4 or 5 years. It helps to have an oil-rich government as a major investor!
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
And some entire airlines are still not profiable. For example, Qatar Airways has, as far as I know, never been profitable since they started flying 14 years ago, and their CEO has said that they have no plans to become profitable for another 4 or 5 years. It helps to have an oil-rich government as a major investor!

WOW!!!! I never knew that regarding Qatar!!! Very interesting indeed!!!!

Cheers
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 11):
The bigger question to me is: When will PUS get a dedicated service (or will it at all?)?

I asked me from the very beginning, why they didn't start PUS as a dedicated service, as for me the ICN-PUS makes 0 sense, for this they have with Asiana a perfect partner
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:01 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 20):
there are many services which are still not profitable and they haven't been cut, so they give 'em quite some time to develop.

And some entire airlines are still not profiable. For example, Qatar Airways has, as far as I know, never been profitable since they started flying 14 years ago, and their CEO has said that they have no plans to become profitable for another 4 or 5 years. It helps to have an oil-rich government as a major investor!

Yes, but Lufthansa is one of - if not the most profitable airline in the world. They know their stuff. It's very hard for us to know much from that raw and simple data. Maybe a large number of those seats being bought are by high yielding business pax, on full fares, many of which in J class. Then the flight very easily could be profitable. Even if it isn't, perhaps LH has good reason to believe it will become so. The people at LH are some of the very best at what they do around, I haven't seen them make too many mistakes.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
HeeseokKoo
Topic Author
Posts: 831
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:54 pm

RE: LH MUC-PUS Load Factor 24%, -ICN: 59%

Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:35 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 23):
why they didn't start PUS as a dedicated service, as for me the ICN-PUS makes 0 sense, for this they have with Asiana a perfect partner

Somehow LH and OZ have not done any co-work for the last several years. They don't do any code-share, although both are in the same alliance. Moreover, OZ's ICN-PUS timing is not good for the LH's flights, and cancel a lot due to lack of aircraft.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos