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FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 49):
British Airways and Virgin Atlantic clean the floor with the US legacies in Y and J service to Europe.

Yes I am well aware that British Airways has such hallmarked service that they like to strand passengers summer after summer at Heathrow, and around the World for that matter. Should we also discuss missing meals from British Airways aircraft as well? I think the British Airways that you are thinking of died with the Landor colours!  wave 

In regards to Virgin Atlantic, the newness is wearing off and more and more people are starting to complain about the service. The airline is facing growing pains, now more so that other airlines are playing catch up and beating Virgin at its own game.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 48):
If you are referring to the European airlines, they have slipped massively in recent years. That is both in product, and in service. Why do you have such a bias against US airlines? Or have you not flown them internationaly, there for you cannot form an educated opinion on the US airlines international products

And yet with the slipping service BA, LH, KLM and others are STILL BETTER, as with Singapore and other Asian carriers. I haven't flown all Asian and european carriers but hi have flown all American carriers except CO to somewhere in Europe, and they suck based on what i saw, I know i haven't flown business, but economy wise in my OPINION they suck. Im not making my claims without substance... My main point about American "Full service carriers" and one that i think the consumer survey supports is that people are disappointed with the "Full Service Carrier" product is that they DONT provide full service and have roughly the same if not higher fares than Lcc's.

My two Cents
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
coleplane
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:54 pm

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
This list looks exactly right to me.

Yep, thought the same thing with the exception of ATA. While I haven't flown ATA, I've read some of their own materials on how they try to market and position themselves. Not good if this is any indication.
"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
 
IPFreely
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 48):
By and far the only airlines that can trump the American in service are the Asian and in some case Middle Eastern and South American airlines.

Is that all?  Smile

Don't forget Air Canada.
 
itsnotfinals
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 50):
Yes I am well aware that British Airways has such hallmarked service that they like to strand passengers summer after summer at Heathrow, and around the World for that matter. Should we also discuss missing meals from British Airways aircraft as well? I think the British Airways that you are thinking of died with the Landor colours!

I you are quoting one incident about the food from a labor incident. The stranding of PAX comment is not supportable for such a sweeping statement. DL had a similiar food thing happen before BK, the crew bought Burger King and Krystal burgers for the J pax LOL. I ws on a DL J flight the next week and thankfully got the regular J service.

Also, AF kicks butt compared to Domestic US airlines to Europe in Y as well.

BA is still very much better than any US carrier.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 50):
In regards to Virgin Atlantic, the newness is wearing off and more and more people are starting to complain about the service. The airline is facing growing pains, now more so that other airlines are playing catch up and beating Virgin at its own game.

Have you flown them recently? I doubt it
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 54):
I you are quoting one incident about the food from a labor incident. The stranding of PAX comment is not supportable for such a sweeping statement.

That labour incident left thousands of passengers without meals on flights up to 13 hours in length. The stranding of passengers has happened like it or not. People take that into consideration when they chose an airline from now on.

1997 - Thousands stranded around the World : BRITISH AIRWAYS
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9707/09/british.air/

2004 - Passengers stranded around the World : BRITISH AIRWAYS
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/eu.../25/uk.ba.cancellations/index.html

2005 - 100,000 Passengers stranded around the World : BRITISH AIRWAYS
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/08/15/ba.strike/

2007 - Thousands expected to be stranded around the World : BRITISH AIRWAYS
http://article.wn.com/view/2007/03/0...ritish_Airways_axes_losing_routes/


British Airways may have a great First Class product to some people - Yet it is not in the same class as Singapore, Emirates, and a few others. But I am not a fan of the new Club World in any shape or form - The off-seat forwards and backwards combination, combined with the rather annoying privacy screens are for the birds. I have had the chance to fly on EOS, on numerous occasions and they get my vote everytime. A great American airline to London. Crews are excellent, meals are out of this World, Seats are very comfortable, it is not to be dismissed, and it is American!

E O S
http://www.eosairlines.com/flyeos/overview/home.jsf


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Photo © Josh Akbar



Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 54):
DL had a similiar food thing happen before BK, the crew bought Burger King and Krystal burgers for the J pax LOL.

Note the key part of your statement "the crew". That was one crew, and was an isolated incident it was not system wide and did not effect thousands of passengers around the globe. The British Airways meal debacle was system wide and was without a doubt the worst catering dilemma ever to face an airline.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 54):
Also, AF kicks butt compared to Domestic US airlines to Europe in Y as well

Air France offers a good product in the P and J cabins, yet the service in Y as in the P and J cabins are hit and miss. The meals may be great, the seats are comfortable, yet the service is and I cannot ever remember having overly gracious service on Air France with the exception of a flight about 2 years ago from CDG-LAX.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 53):
Don't forget Air Canada

Air Canada, better than domestic US Airlines...   

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 51):
And yet with the slipping service BA, LH, KLM and others are STILL BETTER, as with Singapore and other Asian carriers.

Have you flown KLM recently? Honestly, have you? I can tell you one thing, if you think KLM is playing with the same deck of cards as BA and LH I have a igloo to see you on Bora Bora. Honestly have you flown KLM? I would fly Northwest Airlines over KLM any day. KLM, over recent years has slipped greatly. Even more so since Air France is calling the shots. The service is worse than ever, the new J product seats are not comfortable, nor are the meals offered in the J cabin a highlight of gourmet cuisine.

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 51):
My main point about American "Full service carriers" and one that i think the consumer survey supports is that people are disappointed with the "Full Service Carrier" product is that they DONT provide full service and have roughly the same if not higher fares than Lcc's

Please tell us what your definition is of "Full Service"?

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 54):
Have you flown them recently? I doubt it

I had the unfortunate joy of flying the LAS-LGW flight in late February. The Upper Class cabin was no means up to the Virgin Atlantic standard that I flew the year before on JFK-LHR. In addition a friend of mine who was flying in the Economy cabin pointed out a number of marks on the bulkheads, and seats where the coverings were nearly falling apart. I know Las Vegas is a leisure market, but I mean keep your product up to par.

-JD

[Edited 2007-06-01 05:47:51]
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
b52murph
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting SW733 (Reply 41):
Quoting EIPremier (Reply 16):
The legacy carriers offer elite benefits, but don't offer much for the average joe. This is why the legacies score poorly and the LCCs score high. Survey frequent flyers, and you'd get a whole different result.

I consider myself, and my entire office, frequent fliers...we usually fly about 4 times a week. We choose Southwest whenever possible. Better service, a frequent flier program you can actually use...

I also consider myself in this group; although not quite that often. In the last 6 months I've flown (75% business, 25% personal):

ABQ-DAY-ABQ (DL)
ABQ-SAV-ABQ (AA, UA)
ABQ-MHT-ABQ (WN)
ABQ-ORF-MHT-ABQ (AA, WN)
ABQ-BWI-ABQ (WN)
ABQ-MHT-ABQ (WN)
ABQ-ORF-ABQ (DL)
ABQ-SAT-ABQ (WN)
ABQ-DCA-ABQ (AA)
ABQ-MHT-ABQ (UA)
ABQ-MHT-ABQ (WN)

...and I can say with conviction that CR's report is right on the money.

At WN:
A) They treat me like a *real* paying passenger, not just an afterthought because I'm not super gold or 1K or whatever FF status.
B) Yes, you can actually get a free ticket with Rapid Rewards; forget trying to use the others around a holday.
C) Fantastic on-board-service (friendly!) and a good chance of getting on a NEW jet. (last WN segment was on Monday--the 73G couldn't have been off the line more than a month--you could just SMELL the new leather in the seats.  Smile

At DL and AA:
A) Farily friendly on-board service and a "happy-to-see-you" crew; especially true at DL. Second segment listed above was right after the "Keep Delta My Delta" victory.
B) Courteous reps at the gate.
C) A FF program that really would rather you just use your miles for magazines.
D) For the most part--didnt' discriminate because I wasn't FF elite--good thing since all tickets on both airlines were at a high-ish fare. (1,100 RT in Coach)
E) Some newer jets (B738s), mostly older (M80s) though. Vintage Douglas iron kept in good shape in and out.

At UA:
A) MISERABLE customer service (with the exception of the FAs in-the-air) from the beginning on the first segment above..worst I've ever had (Nov 06). There's a whole story about that. The second RT listed above was a huge improvement--all around (Apr 07).
B) An FF program with 35K miles in it that they would just rather I use for magazines.
C) Didn't care that the ticket cost ~$1,000US....I wasn't 1K or priority whatever, so I was just another coach weenie. Economy Plus cost me an ADDITIONAL $29--the only way I could get out of middle seats.
D) Only 2 of 8 segments on aircraft with the new paint scheme...the paint scheme they introduced in MARCH 2004! One segment on a B733 that was a time warp to 1986....vintage orange carpet on the bulkhead, brown seat (which I paid extra for in E+) which had no cushion support left and reclined on it's own. B777 segment with broken IFE (no objection for a short IAD-DEN flight) and truly raddy coach seats (again, in E+).

Well done CR. Your survey confirms my observations and opinions....  Smile
 
rampart
Topic Author
Posts: 1800
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 27):
The legacies are burdened with pensions, health insurance, unions, and other challenges LCCs don't have. Legacies offer comprehensive networks, ones that can take you anywhere you want to go, and they have unprofitable routes as a part of that.

This argument never washes with me. There's no altruism in legacy airlines maintaining pensions and insurance, particularly when they are desperately trying to shed them at the expense of employees, while airlines like F9 and WN have unions with good labor relations, or employees who are comfortable enough with their management and benefits that they don't want a union. The Legacy "burden" is their own doing. (and weren't they upstarts at one time in history?) As for networks, who exactly is holding the gun to their corporate heads insisting that they serve "unprofitable" routes? They can select routes and drop routes as well as anyone (and the mass exodus from medium sized cities, transfering to regional affiliates, is proof). Like WN could elect to drop Amarillo and Corpus Cristi, or B6 could drop Burlington or Portland, but don't because they can make money on underserved, not cherry picked, routes! Likewise, "LCCs" DO choose to enter Chicago, or Baltimore/Washington, or New York, or Los Angeles, or Bay Area, or Denver, or Philly, contrary to what some have argued, and they're holding their own.

Or are you really asking for a return to regulation, so the government can put the thumbscrews on these unruly upstarts and send them to the intrastate limbo they belong?

-Rampart
 
rampart
Topic Author
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 32):
I'll have to get the magazine. Did people fly all airlines? did they only fly one? Two? AirTran could score very high with Joe Flyer who never flew NW. He may rate FL high, but if he flew NW and then compaared them he may now rate FL lower. Some of the pollsters may not know what they don't know. To them FL is great---since they only flew it and have nothing to compare it to.

The information you want isn't in the article, unfortunately. Probably a mix of everything, and probably including a fair share of single airline and relatively infrequent fliers. But as explained earlier, lack of experience or comparison doesn't matter to this survey. It is what it is, with the statistical certainty afforded by massive numbers. You are probably correct that you might get different results from different segments of the population. For that, you'll have to run your own survey, or break into Consumer Union headquarters and dig up their files.

To sort of deal with your question, if a passenger does fly FL and enjoys it, nothing can diminish that, whether he flies anything else or flies frequently or not. If he flies NW and doesn't like it, that one chance to excel was lost on NW. That's the deal with a huge segment of the flying public. A CR survey dwells on that type of "average consumer" experience. (That's why I subscribe.)

-Rampart
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:03 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 55):

For every link you have above I can find more than that for any US airline, face it, all airlines are hit or miss these days. Ripping that poor kid apart about US airlines being better is simply your preference not fact.



The DL issue involved their catering getting cut off completey for several days and ALL flights in all classes having no food or beverages except water.

This was a major meltdown and involved domestic flights too. Several crew bought ATL concourse food for the J class "meals" which was a nice touch, but If I had paid 4200 bucks for a J fare to LGW and got a 3.59 value meal I would have not been too happy.

As far as stranding passengers, AA, B6, US, NW and UA have all had the same type of service meltdowns in the past 3 years.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 59):
Ripping that poor kid apart about US airlines being better is simply your preference not fact

It was not my intent to "rip" anyone apart. I provided information to backup what I was discussing. For us to just sit here and say that British Airways is some kind of a glorious airline without fault is hardly fact. At the same time there have been out of this World problems with the US airlines. That I will not ignore. It just seems that a lot of people on here like to tear up the US airlines and dont really have anything to back it up with other than excuses like foreign airlines are better, or some other preferencial excuse.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 60):
It just seems that a lot of people on here like to tear up the US airlines and dont really have anything to back it up with other than excuses like foreign airlines are better, or some other preferencial excuse.

I enjoy reading your point of view, but i simply disagree with your claim that i have nothing to back up my own OPINION, i speak from experience. I havent flown every airline or everywhere but as i said befor i have been fortunate to fly quite a bit for my age. As for KLM its been 4 years since ive flown them, so i take bak my claim of KLM being better because i havent flown them recently. But i wont take back my belief FROM EXPERIENCE that U.S. FSC Legacies are comparably worse than domestic LCC's and many International airlines. You make interesting points but i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

By the way my defenition of an FSC is one that provides meals, employees with out attitudes, at least some kind of drink, reasonable baggage delivery, reasonable ontime service, comfortable seats and most importantly FRIENDLY EMPLOYEES.

I think the report is a decent indicator about the gab in satisfaction between Lcc's like B6 and so called FSC's like US Airways. Did not mean to step on toes, but knowing im not alone in my disatisfaction with legacies is nice to read about.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 49):
British Airways and Virgin Atlantic clean the floor with the US legacies in Y and J service to Europe.



Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 51):
And yet with the slipping service BA, LH, KLM and others are STILL BETTER,

You fly KL across the atlantic and fly NW back and tell me which one you think is better. I'll give you a hint, it's not the one from Holland. NW' international service, which is decent, though unremarkable, is easily a better experience than KL across the atlantic. I cannot tell you how many people I know at MSP who connect at AMS to other destinations in europe and tell me that compared to US airlines, they found KL to be inferior.

Why don't you compare LH and UA, maybe the FA's on LH smile more, UA has PTV in Y on its 767 and 777 aircraft, LH does not on any of its aircraft. LH might have a more modern business class service, but it is also more expensive in many cases.

And BA offers less space in Y than does AA.

I can tell you without a doubt I've had flights on CO that would shame AF.

On some days, and in some ways, European carriers are better than their US counterparts. On some days, in some ways, US airlines are better. It is very en vogue to trash US carriers, and they are far from perfect, but the service they offer is not head and shoulders below their competition across the atlantic, better in some aspects, worse in others. Will I say UA offers better service than Singapore or Asiana across the pacific. No, they do not, but they are almost always less expensive, so I can't whine too much.

The major US airlines are the largest in the world. They lay down aircraft orders in numbers that almost no other airline could imagine, and they've been filling the planes for decades. They've had rough times, especially in the wake of 9/11, but they are on their way back, and after consolidation runs its course, and the airlines get their strategies clarified, improving international service and transcontinental service, keeping regional flying basic, i think they look to do very well.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:02 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 62):
On some days, and in some ways, European carriers are better than their US counterparts. On some days, in some ways, US airlines are better. It is very en vogue to trash US carriers, and they are far from perfect, but the service they offer is not head and shoulders below their competition across the atlantic, better in some aspects, worse in others. Will I say UA offers better service than Singapore or Asiana across the pacific. No, they do not, but they are almost always less expensive, so I can't whine too much.

I enjoyed my KLM flight from LAX and my several LH flights, now it probably comes down to preference, but ill agree with you that once and a while U.S. carriers get it right across the Atlantic. However you make it sound as id U.S. carriers are nothing but cattle carriers and so we shouldn't expect much in the way of service. For me a friendly flight crew and staff is important for who i fly and in this department i find it hard for people to show U.S. carriers doing better than many european carriers in this area. LCCs for me have always had the friendliest personel, domestically and internationally IN GENERAL, not just Europe i have found to be friendlier and more helpful as well. I know the Report takes in several factors, but besides price i think that a friendly attitude by crews and ground staff is something many of those who toke the report keep in mind.

I think alot of what we use to classify an airline as "good" is based on personal preference and experience.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 62):
and after consolidation runs its course,

Thats a loaded statement... i wont derail the thread though about into an "consolidation is bad or good thread "
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
azstagecoach
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:34 pm

As a CR subscriber, I was one of the airline survey participants. Every CR subscriber/member is emailed and asked to take the survey each year via filling out questionnaires online. This year I recall that one of the 4-5 topics, one of which BTW is always cars, was airlines.

In my view the questions asked about my air travel experience were severely flawed. First there was no question regarding food. I could not believe this was omitted, as it is a big part of the flying experience for me. Second, there was no question regarding the quality of first class, and whether the ability to upgrade was a significant factor, which again is very important to me. I mean, why is it that to be a "consumer" you are assumed to "consume" only economy? Finally the survey limited me to answering questions about only two flights, even though I had taken many, many more in the year past.

All of this leads to the conclusion that the survey was designed to over-value low-cost and direct carriers because these carriers did not have to compete with other airlines in the above criteria.
 
rampart
Topic Author
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:17 pm

Thanks for the insight, Azstagecoach. Interesting to know how they set the limits on the survey.

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 65):
Second, there was no question regarding the quality of first class, and whether the ability to upgrade was a significant factor, which again is very important to me.

One could argue that 1st class upgrades, much less flying 1st class without upgrades, are relatively rare in the total flying public, even though it might be important to you. Think of how many seats occupy 1st vs how many in coach on any given airplane -- ~10%, give or take. I can never afford first class except for use of FF miles, which I don't, and I've been bumped to 1st exactly twice in my entire life. I consider myself an average airline passenger, flying slightly more than average, enough to qualify for a free frequent flier flight about once a year.

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 65):
Finally the survey limited me to answering questions about only two flights,

That's interesting. That would seem to be the standardization, to be able to compare passengers who might have taken only 2 flights in the entire year. That also may shed some light on the mix of experience flyers vs. relatively infrequent fliers. In other words, there is a mix.

Were you screened in any way, or directed to answer questions based on your customer tendencies?

-Rampart
 
EIPremier
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:17 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:09 pm

Ah, well that explains the average of 1.37 flights/survey...2 was the maximum!

Overall, I mostly agree with these rankings, although I think Southwest is rated a little too highly. I think one flaw is that they don't take into account whether the respondents describe First Class or economy class experiences, although, as mentioned, it's likely that the vast majority were talking about economy experiences. The top ranked carriers are all single-class of service only. Also, they have a category for online booking, which doesn't show a lot of variation between carriers, but they include no metric for customer service over the phone. Having US based agents like with AS or WN is just so much nicer than having to deal with one of those India call centers with DL or UA.

Some other things I found interesting: Aloha rated above average for seat comfort, as did Hawaiian. Yet, Hawaiian flies 767s with 32" pitch and of course the nice 767 configuration of 2x3x2, leaving very few passengers with middle seats. Aloha flies 737-700s on 6 hour flights with 31" pitch...I don't see what's "above average" about that. Meanwhile, all of the legacy carriers ranked either "fair" or "poor" in terms of seat comfort, including United with it's economy plus. Air Tran managed an "average" rating despite it's 30" seat pitch. Also, JetBlue was rated above average for on-time performance even though their on-time record was one of the worst last year (I realize most of the delays are weather/ATC-related, so perhaps the survey respondents understood that as well?).

When I fly up and down the west coast, some factors that make me choose AS over WN include free same day standby, unlimited upgrades to F for elites, and assigned seating, none of which the survey seems to take into account.

[Edited 2007-06-01 11:16:40]
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 65):
Second, there was no question regarding the quality of first class, and whether the ability to upgrade was a significant factor, which again is very important to me.

It's irrelevant to the vast majority of CR's subscribers.

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 65):
I mean, why is it that to be a "consumer" you are assumed to "consume" only economy?

Because most consumers only consume economy.

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 65):
First there was no question regarding food.

Was there any question that could encompass it, like quality of the in-flight experience? Besides, what airline offers "free" food in domestic Y, especially shorter flights? CO, ?

I should probably get a copy of this issue of CR.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10734
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:11 pm

Clearly it is a small sample, (+/- 4 to be statistically important), but if I were an airline CEO I would prefer to be at the top.

If you get bottom grades on a consistent basis, you need to find ways of boosting your performance or be cheaper or both.

David
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:23 pm

I don't know about you folks but when a poll show Spirit a better carrier than Continental, something is very
wrong. I have NEVER EVER heard a Spirit pax have a nice thing to say about that company or its people.
Continental has been the model for the past few years on how to do it right.
safe.  expressionless 
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:02 am

What is it that people love about Southwest? I absolutely hate flying on Southwest. Everytime I see those lines I think of cattle-call. And the couple of times that I HAD to fly, it was as if every other person was flying for the 1st TIME!!!  Angry
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
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RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 71):
What is it that people love about Southwest? I absolutely hate flying on Southwest. Everytime I see those lines I think of cattle-call

Cattle Call...everyone uses that one. Ok, so, you don't like the boarding process...good thing that's not why people fly. People like different airlines for different reasons...Southwest isn't for everyone, so don't take them. I hate NW, so I don't fly them - simple as that.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4211
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am

Just a short note. Rampart--your responses to the various questions people have raised about the Consumer Reports survey have been very fair and reasonable. This has been a worthwhile and interesting topic.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 38):
US and DL are almost always cheaper that WN on all cities they serve in common.

That may be true for some cases. For example, When DL or US compete with WN on a given route, their advance purchase fares are quite often lower. that might be one reason that US has been thru bankruptcy twice and DL once. But on their fully refundable fares - a flight on Southwest from MCI-PHL costs $539. While US has a nonrefundable last minute fare of $750, if you want the luxury of getting a refund - it's $1450.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 71):
What is it that people love about Southwest? I absolutely hate flying on Southwest. Everytime I see those lines I think of cattle-call. And the couple of times that I HAD to fly, it was as if every other person was flying for the 1st TIM

One big reason is what I listed above....Southwest doesn't play games with their fares. Fully refundable fares are considerably less than the other airlines. And should a nonrefundable fare require a change, they don't charge a change fee.

Other reasons would be frequency of flights...you are a business person according to your profile...if you need to get from point A to point B for a meeting, then back to point A for the evening - a lot of airlines can't accomodate you. Southwest CAN accomodate that. Matter of fact, there are a lot of folks living In DAL who commute to Houston all the time like that...a lot of folks in MCI who commute to Chicago for a meeting and back home that night. All for a decent fare. My time is money - and if it's worth avoiding the "cattle call" - which most other airlines also have - just watch when the first group is called for boarding....everybody stands up and forms a nice little conga line down the jetway (moo) - more power to you. As for me....why sit in an airport waiting for a flight on XYZ airlines when Southwest has two departures during the time you've been waiting?

And the "legacies" have their fair share of "first time flyers"....who took advantage of the bankruptcy inducing $99 round trip transcon fares. Southwest has a surprisingly big number of customers who have a "companion pass" (take someone with you for free) that people who fly 100 segments within a year automatically get. And finally...is an assigned center seat in coach more comfortable that one that was not assigned?
 
azstagecoach
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 66):
One could argue that 1st class upgrades, much less flying 1st class without upgrades, are relatively rare in the total flying public, even though it might be important to you. Think of how many seats occupy 1st vs how many in coach on any given airplane -- ~10%, give or take. I can never afford first class except for use of FF miles, which I don't, and I've been bumped to 1st exactly twice in my entire life. I consider myself an average airline passenger, flying slightly more than average, enough to qualify for a free frequent flier flight about once a year.

Fair enough. But consider the design of the CR airline survey as compared to cars or consumer electronics, which were also on the survey. Most people don't fly first class, but (mostly through upgrades) many frequent travelers do. And yes most passengers don't care about entertainment or food, but a significant percent value these features very highly. Likewise, most consumers don't buy Mercedes or 50" flat screens, but then again, a good number do. So it isn't like CR only tests economy cars or 20" televisions-- they also test Mercedes and 50" flat screens. When they do the report on the survey results, they split the segments up by cost, and features. Why can't they do something similar for airlines, or at least take into account the upmarket features?
 
rampart
Topic Author
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 73):
Just a short note. Rampart--your responses to the various questions people have raised about the Consumer Reports survey have been very fair and reasonable. This has been a worthwhile and interesting topic.

Hey, thanks! I figured the topic would contribute to a good discussion in a friendly stir-the-pot way.

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 76):
. When they do the report on the survey results, they split the segments up by cost, and features. Why can't they do something similar for airlines, or at least take into account the upmarket features?

Excellent point. That would have been a better, or at least farther reaching, article. Maybe the statistical results couldn't support greater detail. Like many here, I'd LOVE to see the full analytical report. Wonder if those are ever released?

-Rampart
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: Consumer Reports Ranks U.S. Airlines

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 74):
And finally...is an assigned center seat in coach more comfortable that one that was not assigned?

HELL NO! Thank God I haven't had to do that since who knows when. That is the problem when you achieve Elite status with a legacy, those little things like never having to sit in the center seat of "Zoo Class" that elite status promises keeps you from trying other airlines. The last time I flew Southwest was PDX-LAS-PDX. I don't remember there being as many drunk loud and obnoxious passengers on my flight the month before on AS. Just an observation.

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