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skyharborshome
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Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:49 am

Last night before leaving SAN, 9 passengers on a WN 737-300 were asked to move to the rear of the aircraft to "balance the plane." The plane had 47 passengers of which about 10 were already seated in the rear. I have seen this happen on EMB-120's and CRJ-200's but never on a 737. Was this because of passenger weight, cargo up front or some other reason? One of the FA's said she had never had to make that announcement before.
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YULYMX
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:51 am

That sound Weird on a B737???
 
ikramerica
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting SkyHarborsHome (Thread starter):
I have seen this happen on EMB-120's and CRJ-200's but never on a 737.

Well, now you have!  Wink

Seriously, if 37 were fore and 10 were aft, I can see this being a good idea.

What WN flight only had 47 pax? That can't be profitable, even for WN...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
What WN flight only had 47 pax? That can't be profitable, even for WN...


So we found an example of a pretty empty flight here...happens all the time on all airlines. How many people normally travel on a Wednesday night?

It was probably *LESS* costly to WN to offer the seats for sale than it would have been to have re-positioned the aircraft with no paying pax aboard. I'm sure WN's route planning dept. took this into account months ago  Wink
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
altairF28
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:16 am

Given his screen name I'm guessing either 2229, 2068 or 118.

With that light of a load it doesn't sound like that big of a deal-not like anyone got stuck in a middle seat or anything. Some people obviously prefer sitting near the front of the plane but unless you're a contestant on The Amazing Race it isn't really all that crucial.
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WNCrew
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:53 am

I would agree that it's a bit out of the ordinary for WN. At my previous carrier we frequently had weight-balance issues that required pax to be seated in certain parts of the cabin (yes even on the 737), but I've never had this issue at WN and I have worked some flights with light loads. I was always told that because of our open seating policy, the weight and balance was acheived "Under the floor"....which I guess means they do it by loading the cargo a certain way?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
skyharborshome
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting AltairF28 (Reply 4):
Given his screen name I'm guessing either 2229, 2068 or 118.

Good job Altair: flight was 2068. Supposed to be on 118 but arrived at 8:10 so changed.

First thing that came to mind was cargo. I remember talking to a member of WN Ops about 2 years ago and I remember him saying a lot of mail used to go WN from SAN but I think those contracts have changed (maybe). This helped make the route profitable even though most of the planes flow into PHX late at night have other places to go early the next morning. This make cancelling a hassle and costly.

I have seen fish, books and even a casket go from SAN-PHX but all those were always stored in the back of the aircraft. Not sure what they would have up front unless more bags were loaded up there for some reason.

Found it very strange; glad I am not the only one.
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MCOflyer
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:49 am

Quoting SkyHarborsHome (Reply 6):
Found it very strange; glad I am not the only one.

I find it very hard to believe. I can understand commuter flights, but a flight using a 737. Jeesh, did they have more cargo fore than aft?

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:50 am

SkyHarborsHome,

This time of year on a Wednesday night, loads on the late flights are usually low. To help offset the low pax load, we typically send a lot of freight on those flights. 2068 usually gets a lot of freight. My guess is, there was a large thru load of freight that the up-line station probably loaded in the front of the aircraft. 737-300s are to be loaded 50/50 front/back, or slightly aft heavy. With only 47 pax, there was probably not enough local bags to match the weight of the thru load in the front of the aircraft. Ops probably fiddled with the weights to avoid making the ramp move part of the load to the back and likely concluded that asking some pax to sit in the rear would be good enough to get the plane in trim.

About the low loads...it was a Wednesday night during a relatively slow season. The last flights this time of year are typically booked low. It will all change in a couple weeks when summer arrives. But, as an example, the last SAN-MDW flight lately has seen pax loads in the 10-30 range during the week. That flight is always bulked out with 3000+ lbs of freight to maximise revenue for the flight. So, just because pax loads are low on a flight, doesn't mean its a total loss.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
skyharborshome
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 8):
2068 usually gets a lot of freight

Are you allowed to be more specific on type of freight?

Great explanation, thanks!
Fly CHD!
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:18 am

Quoting SkyHarborsHome (Reply 9):
Are you allowed to be more specific on type of freight?

Well, I really have no idea. I was not working last night. We send a lot of flowers, sometimes seafood...and sometimes I have no idea what is in the boxes I am loading.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting SkyHarborsHome (Thread starter):
Last night before leaving SAN, 9 passengers on a WN 737-300 were asked to move to the rear of the aircraft to "balance the plane." The plane had 47 passengers of which about 10 were already seated in the rear. I have seen this happen on EMB-120's and CRJ-200's but never on a 737. Was this because of passenger weight, cargo up front or some other reason? One of the FA's said she had never had to make that announcement before.



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 8):
Ops probably fiddled with the weights to avoid making the ramp move part of the load to the back and likely concluded that asking some pax to sit in the rear would be good enough to get the plane in trim.

As you mentioned, sometimes the CG will be need to be moved a bit, and sometimes we also add a little extra fuel to move the CG aft if we're only a couple of trim units away from what's needed. You can also ask your local Ops agent to explain the "loading rule" to ya...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
a380us
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
What WN flight only had 47 pax? That can't be profitable, even for WN...

ive been with less
it was a ISP-BWI with us (6) and i think another 2 couples plus crew
i had so much fun even though it was short and and i had like 3 rows to my slef
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sdbravo
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:21 pm

On a flight from SMF to SAN on a Tuesday night in March 2007, there were only six of us, not including the crew. There was another flight 1/2 hour later from SMF to SAN...I wonder what the loads were like on that one.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:23 pm

I've been asked to move on a 767-200 before. That's right, seven-six-seven.

The FA specifically said it was for weight & balance.
 
futureatp
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:28 pm

More interesting, my mother was on a America West flight bound from MCI to PHX 3 or so years a go and they asked some of the passengers to move laterally! Move left to right or vise versa citing improper cargo loading. Would have also been a 737-300.
 
b52murph
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
What WN flight only had 47 pax? That can't be profitable, even for WN...

Is ABQ-BWI (or reverse) or ABQ-MDW (or reverse) ever that light of a load? I'd love to fly them less than 137/137 (for once...)

[Edited 2007-06-01 06:42:08]
 
jenkingeorge
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:02 pm

Just a quick note to say.....

My father was on a flight once from Oslo to London. It was a night flight on new years eve, he was the only pax! 3 lovley stuardesess to himself!

Lucky him!  bigthumbsup 

Sorry but I don't know any more flight details.

JG
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
 
Ambassador
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:11 pm

In 2001 I flew from LAS to STL in a AA/TW Mad Dog 88 with only 12 pax on board. They made us all move to the front of the plane....... as a result all pax were in first class. During the flight I took a stroll to the rear of the plane.......it was very errie with no one in coach.
 
Experimental
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:16 pm

I thought FR blocked off the front and rear rows of their 737-800 when they weren't full, in order to center the CG even if it was within the set limits, as a result they would save a few drops of fuel.
 
spetouss
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:23 pm

In the past I had this experience on B738 Ryanair a few times.

Also, I have encountered such situation on a B757 flight with Thomsonfly last month.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:31 pm

Interesting thread,

I have rquested a move on a relatively lightly loaded RE ATR 72, and the FA refused to allow me to move to the requested row, but moved mw to an Exit Row instead! She said it was becasue those seats were "in the same zone". I presume this was to do with weight & balance

Quoting Experimental (Reply 19):
I thought FR blocked off the front and rear rows of their 737-800 when they weren't full, in order to center the CG even if it was within the set limits, as a result they would save a few drops of fuel.

I have my suspicions that this practice is to amke it easier for the crews to "flog their wares" than for weight & balance. AFAIK FR takes no cargo or mail on their flights, and it in only passenger baggage that is loaded below.

Brian.
 
eajpecrca
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:15 pm

Last Thanksgiving I was on a US 757, CLT--PHL with a light load and was asked to move to the back of the plane. Was surprised that that would be necessary but I suppose it's more common than I realized.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
What WN flight only had 47 pax? That can't be profitable, even for WN...

Not really. Although not specifically stated, I assume PHX was the destination (from the thread starters name). By my count, WN has 14x weekday flights SAN-PHX. If it was an evening flight as indicated, on a Wednesday, not unusual at all. You don't fill every seat on every flight. They would not operate that many departures per day unless the overall route were profitable. I've seen plenty of evening flights on all airlines with light loads. It's certainly no sign the route or particular flight isn't profitable. If it were a trend with so few pax, it wouldn't be operating.
 
JayDavis
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:55 pm

I took some clients on the first flight from DFW to LAS on AirTran last year. We left out on the early morning departure and it was pretty full. On the afternoon flight, we only had about 10 people on the entire flight, since it was a new flight. All the pax were asked to move to the front............we all sat in Business Class on a B-717.

Pretty cool.
 
co777er
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting A380US (Reply 12):
ive been with less

Going to the Texas v OU football game two years ago, my dad and I were the only two people on the plane! It was a WN flight from SAT to DAL
 
GoMEA
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:21 pm

It happened to me on a MEA A321 BEY-RUH... The 31 J seats were full while economy was strangely almost empty... They had angry J class passengers move in economy just for takeoff!
MEA raising the Cedar far up in the sky
 
ebs757
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:40 am

My uncle who is an FA for WN said they move them to the front not the back..very strange especially a 737
Viva la Vida
 
skyharborshome
Topic Author
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 23):

Not really. Although not specifically stated, I assume PHX was the destination (from the thread starters name). By my count, WN has 14x weekday flights SAN-PHX. If it was an evening flight as indicated, on a Wednesday, not unusual at all. You don't fill every seat on every flight. They would not operate that many departures per day unless the overall route were profitabl

I make this trip about twice a month. The lightest I have ever been is 14 passengers but I have been in situations where one week it is empty and the next week I will take same flight, same day of week, and it is full. As mentioned before, depends on time of year, holidays, canceled flights, etc.

On this particular night, I dropped my co-worker off at the terminal and then returned the car so he jumped on the previous flight which was delayed. He landed in PHX about 4 mins earlier than us. Again, the planes are scheduled to be in PHX or somewhere else so sometimes no choice but to fly whether 14 or 137 on board (sometimes with weight-shifted passengers  Wink ).
Fly CHD!
 
swaopsusafatc
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:53 am

Yes you experienced Loading Rule 4.. We use trim units to determine if the CG is "in the envelope".. When we add up the weights the last two digits are trim units.. Here is an example
47 pax is 8899
32 bags and 1000lbs freight in the fwd is equiv to 64 bags.. 1904
300lbs of freight equals 12 bags in the rear 399
20,100 lbs/gas wings, 11805 center
aircraft empty weight 72147

Total-- 115254 -- trim units 54 When we look at the cg range for that weight the summer trim unit can be between 40 and 52.. we are at 54 so we need to use loading rule 4 -- Ensure at lease one half the pax compliment is seated aft of the overwing exit. Trim units can go to 55 now.. The plane is safe to go..

Thats it..
Swaops
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:04 am

If you think its weird on a 737 I flew MAN-PHL on US Airways last year on an A330 and they moved all but a few people out of the middle cabin into the rear. Luckily I got to stay in the middle section along with about 5 other people. That was a great flight!
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
srbmod
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RE: Asked To Move Seats On A WN 737

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:36 am

Since the OP's question has been answered, this thread is being locked, as this thread is not about light loads on flights you have flown on. If you want to discuss that, start a thread on it over in Polls/Preferences.

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