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Humberside
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AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:41 pm

Quote:
Air India has concluded negotiations with Malaysian Airlines for six additional landing slots at Heathrow Airport, the airline said in a statement.

'Air India will not be paying any money to Malaysian Airlines for the slots. Successful conclusion of the agreement would allow Air India to operate six more flights to Britain,' the airline statement said.

Slots at Heathrow Airport sell for up to £20m each, depending on the takeoff and landing time. As these had no cost, we can only assume that they are at unsociable times, and may be used for cargo services.

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/heathrow-airport-news-310507.htm

I take it these werent Malaysian's only LHR slots?

[Edited 2007-06-01 11:03:34]
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kiwiandrew

RE: AI Get LHR Slts From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:56 pm

Quoting Humberside (Thread starter):
I take it these werent Malaysian's only LHR slots?

definitely not - MH have been operating 2 daily KUL-LHR for a number of years plus , IIRC , an 3rd service on certain days of the week - I suspect these might come from those non-daily flights being cut
 
flytuitravel
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:02 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
3rd service on certain days of the week

Unless these are charter flights, I'm afraid there are only two daily scheduled flights from LHR to KUL, so MH must be downgrading to just once daily  Wow! And AI aren't paying MH for these slots??? The only answer I can think of is that Malaysia Airlines is making heavy losses on LHR-KUL.

Something weird is going on if you ask me, LOL.


flyTUITravel.
 
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BNE
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:17 pm

Malaysia Airlines operated 3 services a day to London on certain days of the week. I think Thursday and Saturday and another day I can't remember had the extra flights.

The extra Saturday service departed around 11:00am and arrived in LHR soon after 5:00pm.

Malaysia Airlines currently offer an evening and daytime departures from both KUL and LHR.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
ANother
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:36 pm

I think the key phrase is 'not be paying any money' which AI said and not 'had no cost' which comes from a third party. There are other ways to pay than with money.
 
flytuitravel
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:43 pm

Quoting BNE (Reply 3):
Malaysia Airlines operated 3 services a day to London on certain days of the week.

So when did these services end?
 
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lapper
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:55 pm

Are these the services that used to operate LHR-LGK-KUL and LHR-PEN-KUL? IIRC these were ended and just went LHR-KUL for a while in addition to the other 2x dailies.
 
jfk777
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:49 pm

Sounds like a fishy deal to me, who would lease or buy an LHR slot for no money. Why would Malaysian do it any way, they have two daily flights, are they going to once daily ?
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7):
Sounds like a fishy deal to me, who would lease or buy an LHR slot for no money. Why would Malaysian do it any way, they have two daily flights, are they going to once daily ?

Perhaps it is a sort of sub-lease under the table for cash that reputedly MH needs?

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BCAL
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7):
Sounds like a fishy deal to me, who would lease or buy an LHR slot for no money

Perhaps the simple explanation is that AI will be "baby sitting" the slots which are surplus to MH needs at present?

There is nothing in the article that says MH has disposed of the slots for good.
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MAS777
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 2):
Unless these are charter flights, I'm afraid there are only two daily scheduled flights from LHR to KUL, so MH must be downgrading to just once daily And AI aren't paying MH for these slots??? The only answer I can think of is that Malaysia Airlines is making heavy losses on LHR-KUL.

Malaysia Airlines operated 3 flights a day KUL-LHR for some time on certain days.

MH2 continues daily departing KUL at 2340 and arriving at 0550 the next morning. This is MAS' flagship route.
MH4 continues daily and has been retimed to leave daily at 1200 and arrive at 1810.
MH8 has now been removed and flew 4x week at 0900 arriving at 1510.

MH8 could have been operated daily if there was sufficient demand for capacity.
Due to poor loads - MAS tried routing these flights on the inbound to KUL via LGK (x2 weekly) and via PEN (x2 weekly).
That move proved to be a disaster as it merely added extra flying time for the majority of passengers who were enroute to KUL for onward connections - so as part of its Business Turnaround Plan (to return to profit) this routing was axed and MH 4 and MH 8 shared the daily daylight flight to London - ie. on certain days it flew as MH4 leaving at 1200 and on other days it flew as MH8 leaving at 0900.
This has now been standardised back to a daily MH4 only.

MAS obtained 21 slots into LHR after BA left KUL and relinquished its traffic rights to MAS as part of its withdrawal - henc MAS has spare capacity.

With the advent of the A380s arriving soon - i guess MAS figured it will be happy to continue operating a twice daily service for the time being as at least one of the two daily flights will soon be switched to the A380.

With regards to the 'fees' - i expect this might have something to do with the recent wranglings between India and Malaysia over traffic rights between India and Malaysia. (see other thread)

very briefly - India has accused Malaysia of not honouring its end of the Air Services Agreement by not letting Air Sahara and Air India Express operate into Malaysia and has threatened to bar Malaysia Airlines from flying into India.
This is all rather confusing since Air Sahara already operates into Kuala Lumpur and airlines in India collectively far exceed Malaysia Airlines' in their capacity and frequencies of flights between India and Malaysia. I guess, this deal may result in a 'sweetener' to a new deal between India and Malaysia and allow Malaysia Airlines to press on with its much needed expansion into India.
 
flytuitravel
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:36 am

I understand these flights are gone now, so AI can't be having these, so it must be one of the current MH flights??? Am I right???


flyTUITravel.
 
odie
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 10):
MAS obtained 21 slots into LHR after BA left KUL and relinquished its traffic rights to MAS as part of its withdrawal - henc MAS has spare capacity.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that MH have 18 slots at LHR instead of 21. If they had 21, I’d imagine they will fly 21 times weekly to LHR at some point, no?

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 10):
very briefly - India has accused Malaysia of not honouring its end of the Air Services Agreement by not letting Air Sahara and Air India Express operate into Malaysia and has threatened to bar Malaysia Airlines from flying into India. This is all rather confusing since Air Sahara already operates into Kuala Lumpur and airlines in India collectively far exceed Malaysia Airlines' in their capacity and frequencies of flights between India and Malaysia.

Air Sahara doesn’t fly to KUL...yet. Air India Express on the other hands flies to KUL. Air Sahara has been loading their flights into GDS a couple of times and it’s always pulled out of GDS at the very last minute (now we all know why).
 
himmat01
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting Odie (Reply 12):
Air India Express on the other hands flies to KUL.

AIX does not fly to KUL on it's code. AI is using AIX metal for it's KUL flights.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
behramjee
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:59 am

I recall reading an article in either the Hindu Businessline or Economic Times of India online editions in April concerning Air India getting the LHR slots from MAS in exchange for MAS not having to codeshare and give royalty fees to Air India when flying their numerous daily KUL-India-KUL flights.

Air India had supposedly agreed to waive all of this if MAS gave them their LHR slots in exchange of the royalty fee waiver.
 
karan69
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:59 am

This was mentioned quite sometime ago and was discussed in

Indian Aviation Thread 50

Here is the extract from that thread.

AI seals pact with Malaysian Airlines for London slots

Quote:
New Delhi April 25 Air India has concluded negotiations with Malaysian Airlines for six additional landing slots at London's Heathrow airport.

Air India will not be paying any monies to Malaysian Airlines for the slots, the airline Chairman and Managing Director, Mr V. Thulasidas, told Business Line.

In 2003, British Airways had paid $12 million for two slots at Heathrow through an online auction.

The slots were auctioned by a major US airline, which was selling assets to come out of bankruptcy.

A slot is defined as the scheduled time of arrival or departure made available to an airline to operate regular flights.

A meeting is scheduled to be held in London between Malaysian Airlines, Air India and the Slots Co-ordination Committee of Heathrow to finalise the agreement.

The successful conclusion of the agreement would allow Air India to operate six more flights to the UK, taking the weekly total to 34.

To utilise these slots, the airline plans to wet-lease Boeing 767 aircraft.

"The six additional flights will terminate in London. The cities from which the flights will originate is yet to be firmed up," officials said.

The agreement would, however, see Air India surrender some seats that it is entitled to sell on Malaysian Airline flights currently.


Karan
 
behramjee
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 15):
The agreement would, however, see Air India surrender some seats that it is entitled to sell on Malaysian Airline flights currently.

I knew I read this correctly on either one of those newspaper's online websites  Wink
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 2):
The only answer I can think of is that Malaysia Airlines is making heavy losses on LHR-KUL.


Very possible..

TG / SQ only has 2x daily to the UK and Singapore is a much larger business centre than Kuala Lumpur.
I would imagine KL's 3x daily with 747's is quite some excess even if their fares are very low.

the Langkawi flight wasnt very good.. it offered domestic 747 service from KL to Langkawi (when there's several daily 737's already), then 747 service to the UK which didnt have an established tourist market to Langkawi (when compared to Phuket etc).

I flew this route a while ago.. it was quite well loaded in Y from KL to Langkawi, 50% from Langkawi to the UK including empty F class.

returing the other way again it was empty to Langkawi and the Langkawi departure time to KL didnt help either.. as there was virtually no business traffic at that hour.. the only passengers on it were bumped from the other flights, + cheap holiday makers.. all went from Langkawi to KL.. making the Langkawi stop pointless.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
kaitak744
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
TG / SQ only has 2x daily to the UK

Singapore Airlines has 3x daily 747-400s to LHR
Thai has 2x daily 747-400s to LHR.
 
changyou
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:54 am

SQ flies 3 times daily to LHR with 744 and daily to MAN with 772ER.
 
odie
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
the Langkawi flight wasnt very good.. it offered domestic 747 service from KL to Langkawi (when there's several daily 737's already), then 747 service to the UK which didnt have an established tourist market to Langkawi (when compared to Phuket etc).

I flew this route a while ago.. it was quite well loaded in Y from KL to Langkawi, 50% from Langkawi to the UK including empty F class.

There are no Langkawi-London flights, only London-Langkawi flights. I don't think Langkawi's runway can handle a fully loaded B744 en route to LHR.
 
vv701
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:42 am

The regulations concerning the disposal of existing slots at slot controlled airports within the EU are determined by 'Council Regulation (EEC) No. 95/93 of 18 January 1992 on common rules for the allocation of slots at Community airports'.

The relevant paragraph of this regulation reads:

'Slots may be freely exchanged between air carriers or transferred by an air carrier from one route, or type of service, to another, by mutual agreement or as a result of a total or partial takeover or unilaterally. Any such exchange or transfer shall be transparent and subject to confirmation of feasibility by the co-ordinator that
(a) airport operations would not be prejudiced
(b) limitations imposed by a Member State according to Article 9 are respected
(c) a change of use does not fall within the scope of Article 11'

Now I am no legal expert and am a little loathe to comment on the exact meaning of the above. One thing, however, is clear and that is that Member States - for example the UK - may place their own limitations on top of EU Directive 95/93. So regulations current in one Member State may not be current in another. Another part of the regulation clearly allows one airline to take control of another's slots by 'a total or partial takeover'.

While the regulation clearly does not explicitly forbid the sale of slots it also clearly does not specifically endorse such sales. I believe that one interpretation is that since the regulation does not say that a slot may be sold but does say that it may be 'freely exchanged' between airlines that a pure sale is not within the constraints of the regulation. So in this case (ie AI and MH) it seems possible to me that, as I believe has happened in the past, the slots have been transferred from one airline to another without there being a straight sale. (Note that although the regulation says 'slots may be freely exchanged . . . or transferred' it does not say that the exchange has to be for other slots.)

Similarly when BD 'transferred' 51 slots to BA and BA paid BD £30 million this was all wrapped up as part of the deal by which BD purchased BMED and BMED discontinued its franchise agreement with BA.

From what I have read I also believe that the slot co-ordinator in the UK, Airport Co-ordination Ltd, takes a somewhat more relaxed interpretation of the EU Directive 95/93 than the co-ordinators in some other European countries. If true this is almost certainly because the UK government has a more liberal interpretation of the Directive.
 
ag92
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting OdiE (Reply 20):

There are no Langkawi-London flights, only London-Langkawi flights. I don't think Langkawi's runway can handle a fully loaded B744 en route to LHR.

Are you sure, IIRC the routing was as stated in reply 17, KUL - Langkawi - LHR - Langkawi - KUL. I remember seeing thousands of banners when I went there 4 years ago

Regards
Ag92
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting Ag92 (Reply 22):
Are you sure, IIRC the routing was as stated in reply 17, KUL - Langkawi - LHR - Langkawi - KUL. I remember seeing thousands of banners when I went there 4 years ago

I can dig out my boarding pass if you like.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
MAS777
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:45 am

Interesting to see StarGoldLHR had flown LGK-LHR nonstop.
Now, whilst I am not disputing this fact... but I fly LHR-KUL almost monthly and have done so for years... MAS has never 'scheduled' a LGK-LHR or even PEN-LHR service a far as I am aware.
As I mentioned in my post MH8 operated x4 week KUL-LHR but returned via LGK/PEN as MH7 for a few seasons only.
It was because as OdiE stated that neither airports could sustain a 744 departing for Europe without load restrictions.

Anyway...

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 11):
I understand these flights are gone now, so AI can't be having these, so it must be one of the current MH flights??? Am I right???

i will be blunt as i seem to be repeating myself... no - you are incorrect.
read my previous post.

Quoting Odie (Reply 12):
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that MH have 18 slots at LHR instead of 21. If they had 21, I’d imagine they will fly 21 times weekly to LHR at some point, no?

BA surrendered 7 slots to MAS. MAS did not fully utilise their slots at LHR - as being discussed in this thread (and previous).

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 2):
The only answer I can think of is that Malaysia Airlines is making heavy losses on LHR-KUL.

Very possible..

The issue here is YIELD. LHR surprisingly had not been making a profit due to low yields. This means that although their 744s are full - they were not pricing their tickets correctly to break even. This occured throughout their network and was not exclusive to LHR. As part of the BTP (Business Turnaround Plan), Idris Jala ensured that MAS' fare structures were changed so yields have now improved and has helped to put the airline back in the black.

To simplify this, all cabins now have LIMITED seats at various fares (see previous threads) - so whilst previously MAS was often considered 'cheap' and 'value for money' (eg. I remember picking up fares as low as £199 rtn (once post Sept 11) for LHR-KUL and just about everyone in Y had paid this fare (or paid another £100 for Australia)... these bucket fares are now much harder to come by). The same applies in premium cabins - where I last paid £2270 rtn in March for GClub - when previously - much lower fares were common to find on MH and one only expected to pay over £2000 with SQ. The flights meanwhile continue to operate with healthy loads both ways - so ultimately - the routes should become even more profitable in time.

This leads to the question about the 3rd daily flight... MAS really does not need these slots as (already mentioned) with the planned deployment of the A380 soon - MAS would in effect be increasing its capacity to LHR. As this 3rd flight would always need to depart KUL within 2-3 hours of the current schedule - due to the timings involved - I believe MAS has not really lost anything in 'selling' these slots.
 
karan69
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:35 pm

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 24):
As part of the BTP (Business Turnaround Plan), Idris Jala ensured that MAS' fare structures were changed so yields have now improved and has helped to put the airline back in the black.

Also just as the article extract i posted clearly states that they will no longer have to share their revenue with AI on their India-KUL-India flights, which should help them in further improving yields and profitability.

Karan
 
B747-4U3
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 24):
The issue here is YIELD

Yes!

Many times in the past I've been looking at flights from London to Jakarta. With the exception of peak travel times, MAS have always been significantly and consistantly cheaper than even the Gulf carriers. I remember once seeing an MAS LHR-KUL-CGK flight for 380 pounds, over 40 pounds cheaper than Gulf Air (the next cheapest)! It was even cheaper than LHR-KUL only!
 
zvezda
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:59 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
TG / SQ only has 2x daily to the UK and Singapore is a much larger business centre than Kuala Lumpur.



Quoting CHANGYOU (Reply 19):
SQ flies 3 times daily to LHR with 744 and daily to MAN with 772ER.

The three daily SQ flights to LHR normally go out full in F and C but moderately loaded in Y. One of the flights (morning at Heathrow) will be upgauged to the WhaleJet in February or March.
 
9MMAR
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:30 pm

I still strongly believe MH is in the losing side in this deal.

Quoting Humberside (Thread starter):
Slots at Heathrow Airport sell for up to £20m each



Quoting Karan69 (Reply 15):
In 2003, British Airways had paid $12 million for two slots at Heathrow through an online auction.

A slot to LHR can easily fetches USD 6 million to GDP 20 million. This case involves 6 slots to LHR, which can easily means a gain out of nowhere of between MYR 126 million to MYR 840 million to MH!!!

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 15):
The agreement would, however, see Air India surrender some seats that it is entitled to sell on Malaysian Airline flights currently.



Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25):
will no longer have to share their revenue with AI on their India-KUL-India flights

I strongly believe that the value of revenue that has to be spared to AI would be much lesser than MYR 126 million. Does AI's sold seats on MH's flights formed a significant percentage of the total selling? Even the whole fiasco between India and Malaysia was resulted from MH's complaint that their service to India suffered low passengers' load.

Quoting Odie (Reply 12):
Air Sahara doesn’t fly to KUL...yet.

Quoting the Malaysian Transport Minister in the Malaysian Aviation Thread 3:
"Although they have not responded to our request for talks, on the Malaysian side, we have been very accommodative. we have granted Air Sahara the landing rights even when all the rights have been taken up. We are looking into landing rights for Air-India Express," he told media.

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 24):
I believe MAS has not really lost anything in 'selling' these slots.

I think MH lost a lot.

  • A potential gain of revenue of between MYR 126 - 840 million, should the 6 LHR slots being sold or auctioned at open market.
  • The swapped item/entity for the 6 LHR slots, i.e. the gain from AI's seats sell on MH flights was way inferior in equal monetary value.
  • Should this arrangement (of giving 6 LHR slots to AI for free) was direcly linked with the recent landing right fiasco between Malaysia and India, MH tends to lose more because eventually, there will be 5 Indian carriers (Air India, Indian Airlines, Jet Airways, Air India Express and Air Sahara) servicing the routes between Malaysia and India, which definitely will worsen MH's already low passengers' load on those routes. Will more Indian be flying MH and thus improving its passengers loads if Air Sahara and Air India Express (both are LCCs) being (was) given the landing rights? I really doubt it.
  • Should this arrangement (of giving 6 LHR slots to AI for free) was initiated and suggested by the Indian side, then I think it just showed how weak and stupid the Malaysian side are.  no  But then again, I was looking from MH's point of view. From the Malaysian point of view, I think our country will gain more from this whole things.


Quoting MAS777 (Reply 24):
with the planned deployment of the A380 soon

Looking on the bright side, yes, the newspaper airticles compiled in the Malaysian Aviatian Threads showed positive progression that MH will be eventually operating the 6 A388s.
 
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B747-437B
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 28):
eventually, there will be 5 Indian carriers (Air India, Indian Airlines, Jet Airways, Air India Express and Air Sahara) servicing the routes between Malaysia and India

Actually, with the various mergers that are imminent that is just 2 groups in reality.

AI, IC and IX are all part of the same family.
9W and S2 are part of the same family.
 
trintocan
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:39 pm

This is interesting to hear. I flew with MH to KUL back in 2003 (there is a trip report on this forum) and the outward flight was routed via LGK; the return was nonstop (it was MH2 at 1200HR). I remember the outward flight was more heavily loaded than the return. Nonetheless, the fares were very cheap; I went with 2 friends for a week and they paid £500 each for flights and hotel while I paid £600 (single supplement; they are married). Think about that - you can barely get even a flight to somewhere like POS (a much shorter journey than KUL) for that kind of money!

I would have thought that cargo and the like would have justified MH's 3 daily flights to LHR and hence the relatively low fares. MH have dropped MAN now, right? All the same, if the arrangement works to MH's favour then that is excellent. It would be good to see and fly in their A380s in the future. MH is quite a great airline with excellent service.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
flytuitravel
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 24):
MAS has not really lost anything in 'selling' these slots.

I'm still confused as to which slots they have sold? They are going 1x daily into LHR now? As they haven't used the 3rd daily slot for a while now and they wouldn't have been allowed to just keep it in case they might want to use it in the future!?!


flyTUITravel.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 24):
Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 11):
I understand these flights are gone now, so AI can't be having these, so it must be one of the current MH flights??? Am I right???

i will be blunt as i seem to be repeating myself... no - you are incorrect.
read my previous post.



Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 31):
I'm still confused as to which slots they have sold? They are going 1x daily into LHR now? As they haven't used the 3rd daily slot for a while now and they wouldn't have been allowed to just keep it in case they might want to use it in the future!?!

Read the thread, MH are still 2x daily to LHR, the slots sold are those of the third flight that used to operate 4x weekly.

I don't think they would just simply lose the slots straight away anyway.
 
zvezda
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 28):
A slot to LHR can easily fetches USD 6 million to GDP 20 million. This case involves 6 slots to LHR, which can easily means a gain out of nowhere of between MYR 126 million to MYR 840 million to MH!!!

One daily slot pair may fetch USD 6M to 20M. I believe the transfer from MH to AI was for 6 weekly slots, i.e. 3 weekly slot pairs. In other words, 3x weekly once in and once out. Since it's not clear what the compensation was (only that it wasn't cash), I don't think we have enough information to judge who did or didn't get a good deal. Clearly, both sides felt they were better offer doing the deal than not doing the deal. They have a lot more information than we do.
 
9MMAR
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 33):
I believe the transfer from MH to AI was for 6 weekly slots, i.e. 3 weekly slot pairs.

MH can operate 21 weekly services to LHR (ideally 3 times a day). At the moment, MH only operates 14 weekly services (twice daily) to LHR, leaving 7 weekly slots (7 pairs the way I understand it) unused. I think they are going to transfer 6 out of these 7 unused slots to AI.
 
BCALBOY
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RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:02 am

Think we-re getting a bit confused here bwtween Traffic Rights and Runway slots.

Bi-lateral agreement between Malaysia and UK allows MH to op 21flts/wk to LON.

But they still have to have the take-off/landing slots @ LHR to do this .

Sounds like they had runway slots for 2 daily plus a 3rd service on some days of week.

They are trading the runway slots for the 3rd service to AI.

MH will still have traffic rights for 21/wk to LON they just won-t have the runway slots to op them.

The runway slots can-t be un-used as otherwise they would loose them.
Maybe they were Winter only slots for the 3rd service ??
 
LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am

RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:05 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 27):
The three daily SQ flights to LHR normally go out full in F and C but moderately loaded in Y. One of the flights (morning at Heathrow) will be upgraded to the WhaleJet in February or March.

Err, actually, SQ Y-class pretty much always 80%+ full, except for the traditionally weak periods, which all carriers suffer from. The A380 will start to come into LHR as stated, believe the SQ308/319 flights, with all flights being upgraded to 380's when they become available.

Interestingly, SQ have also been after a 4th daily slot pair at LHR for years...

As far as AI getting MH slots, then it makes good commercial sense for both, although with yields dropping on routes from LHR to India, can't quite see how struggling AI can justify it?  confused  Not sure of the numbers, but we already have 4 9W's a day, at least 4-5 AI's, BA & VS. Is there really that much traffic?

Interestingly, and slightly off-subject, JM selling their slots to VS is a sad state of affairs, but unfortunately reflects the state the airline is in.
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
karan69
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 36):
rom LHR to India, can't quite see how struggling AI can justify it?

They are gonna start flying from the south non-stop to India, something which they have never done yet--CCU is east india not south.

Look for a mixed bag of 3x weekly BLR and 3x weekly MAA or HYD

Karan
 
ekskycargo370
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:46 am

RE: AI Get LHR Slots From Malaysian

Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:28 pm

I heard EK had got the AI slot to operate a 6th frequency,any truth in that?

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