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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:25 am
by columba
Quoting Danny (Reply 99):
If US had ordered the 737-900 they would announce it now especially if they are behind the 30 787s

It is not US behind those 30+30 787s.

I never believed that. I was saying that if US had ordered the 787 and 737-900 they would have announced it before Le Bourget.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:38 am
by warreng24
Quoting STT757 (Reply 87):
CO's 737-900ERs will seat more than their 737-900s, IIRC it has to do with the flat bulk head at the rear of the aircraft that is in the 737-900ER.

Not so much to do with the flat bulk head, but more to do with the additional set of exit doors.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 92):
Specifically, UA have 42 A319/A320s on deferred order at very attractive prices. There is no way this 737-900ER order could be for UA.

Duh! Oops. Totally forgot about that. Thanks!

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:09 am
by SkyvanMan
Could those 737-9's be replacements for US's fleet of 757's, I dont think they fly any of their 757s on maximum range, and they may be replacing those, no idea but just an idea.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:21 am
by ER757
I really believe these are for AA. The numbers are about right and as others have pointed out, US said they would order narrow & wide body aircraft togther. So that 30 UFO 787 order doesn't seem to have the right timing. I think that order may also end up being for AA. I just can't see it being for QR - what the heck would they do with 30 878's on top of 80 A350,s?????

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:22 am
by Flighty
Quoting SkyvanMan (Reply 102):
Could those 737-9's be replacements for US's fleet of 757's, I dont think they fly any of their 757s on maximum range, and they may be replacing those, no idea but just an idea.

US has about 25 757s that they never fly on long flights (and ~15 that they do). Plus, US has about 35 734s to replace. 25+35=60. Boeing does not want to see all these Boeings melt out of the US fleet. Later, US will basically replace all their 733 with the E-190. So they eliminate 3 fleets (733, 734, 757domestic) and gain 2 (E-190, 739ER). That is my interpretation but it could be wrong.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:40 am
by columba
Quoting Flighty (Reply 104):
Plus, US has about 35 734s to replace. 25+35=60. Boeing does not want to see all these Boeings melt out of the US fleet. Later, US will basically replace all their 733 with the E-190. So they eliminate 3 fleets (733, 734, 757domestic) and gain 2 (E-190, 739ER). That is my interpretation but it could be wrong.

I believe the 737-900ER is too big to be a 737-400 replacement. Also a streamline A32x narrowbody fleet for US would make much more sense as a mixed fleet of A319, A320, A321, 737-900 and E190s.
On the other hand a fleet of 60 737NG are enough aircraft to allow a subfleet - just look at AB operating 737NGs and A32xs side by side but I really doubt that US has the need for 60 737-900ER.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:39 am
by scottieprecord
Would Boeing have any reason to mark the order as 'UFO' if ILFC or GECAS were the buyer? It makes sense for actual airlines, more media attention when released, say, at Paris, but leasing companies wouldn't really have a reason to care when it's released, right?

-Mike

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:39 am
by thebry
Quoting Aerojoe (Reply 96):
Could the 8 77W be for NZ? There was mention in the NZ aviation thread last month that NZ board were to consider a 77W order of around 8 aircraft.

Good point... they could eventually replace their 744s and use the balance for expansion. Plus, NZ does seem to order planes in dribs and drabs. They've got a lot of 787s on order now (and are launch customer for 789) but ordered them 2 and 4 at a time. The 77W order could quite possibly be NZ.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:12 am
by Lumberton
Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 106):
but leasing companies wouldn't really have a reason to care when it's released, right?

SUH likes the lime light--especially at Paris!

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:17 am
by ScottB
Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 101):
Not so much to do with the flat bulk head, but more to do with the additional set of exit doors.

Nope. The maximum seating for the 737-900 (non-ER) based on exit limitations is 189 -- this is well under what CO will put in the -900ER's. The flat rear pressure bulkhead does make additional cabin space available, about a row's worth.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 71):
You know, it is entirely possible that Boeing could sell 10,000 737s before the 737 line closes down for good. That would be quite a monumental achievement.

Yup... AFAIK, the top seller of all time was the DC-3, which managed 10,655 copies (not including the licensed copies built in Russia or Japan). It would boggle the mind if the 737 were to pass the DC-3, of which most were built for military purposes during WW II.

One of the arguments that I'd see as being in favor of this order being for US Airways is the fact that their 757 fleet is one of the oldest out there. The merger reunited the ex-Eastern birds that had been split among US & HP. HP/US also has several ex-Republic frames. HP's 757 fleet averages over 20 years in age, with several hitting 25 years in the next 12 months. They've also lost a few 757's since the merger as lease returns; they're down four since the ex-ATA 757's entered the fleet in 2006.

I'm also given to understand that the reconfigured A321's (with fewer F seats and more Y seats) may end up struggling on PHL-West Coast sectors with more frequent fuel stops needed; the 737-900ER has a bit more range which would help in those situations.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:22 am
by warreng24
Quoting ScottB (Reply 109):
Nope. The maximum seating for the 737-900 (non-ER) based on exit limitations is 189 -- this is well under what CO will put in the -900ER's. The flat rear pressure bulkhead does make additional cabin space available, about a row's worth.

Understand that this is what CO does. However, in terms of the FAA maximum number of seats, 189 for the non-ER, but for the -ER model I believe that the maximum number of seats increases to 215 because of the additional exit doors.

I agree that the flat rear pressure bulkhead does make additional space available.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:58 am
by Flighty
Quoting ScottB (Reply 109):
One of the arguments that I'd see as being in favor of this order being for US Airways is the fact that their 757 fleet is one of the oldest out there. The merger reunited the ex-Eastern birds that had been split among US & HP. HP/US also has several ex-Republic frames. HP's 757 fleet averages over 20 years in age, with several hitting 25 years in the next 12 months. They've also lost a few 757's since the merger as lease returns; they're down four since the ex-ATA 757's entered the fleet in 2006.

I'm also given to understand that the reconfigured A321's (with fewer F seats and more Y seats) may end up struggling on PHL-West Coast sectors with more frequent fuel stops needed; the 737-900ER has a bit more range which would help in those situations.

This is all true. The 739ER is a perfect match for them. Those extra 100 or 200 nm would be very useful to US versus the A321.

RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:14 am
by ikramerica
Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 110):
Understand that this is what CO does. However, in terms of the FAA maximum number of seats, 189 for the non-ER, but for the -ER model I believe that the maximum number of seats increases to 215 because of the additional exit doors.

Yes, but since CO was well below the limit without the new doors, the new doors don't enable an increase, as they weren't "door" limited to begin with.

CO will have the extra doors disabled, which is an option. That row will have slightly narrower seats like a window exit row, and there will be an odd sized bin to fill the overhead gap. At least that's how I understand it as Boeing describes the option.