AirplaneFan
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 45):



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 46):

The problems I heard about WN were found in these two threads that I recently read:
WN May Slow Down Its Growth
Interesting Take On WN
Now I never said that WN was in deep deep trouble. I only said that they were having problems with some of their markets where they are not making any profits no more. All this information I've heard have all come from those two thread that I mentioned above.

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 39):
Like I said before these are just my taught's and I may be wrong about all this information I've typed.



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 40):
I think AA is going to keep their MD80 for awhile and only replace the ones that HAVE to be replaced..



Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 39):
replace a portion of their MD-80's

not all!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 49):
WN has steadfastly held to the 73G even though the 738 has almost identical trip costs because the 738's additional revenue potential from the extra seats is canceled-out by the extra FA and longer turn times which lowers aircraft utilization.

A 739ER would require two extra FAs and exacerbate the turn times even more.

 checkmark 


AirplaneFan
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Shenzhen
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 47):
So again, I ask.. why is everyone thinking that it is automatically going to Airbus? I think that this is not Airbus' order to get, but Boeing's order to lose. And I don't think Boeing is going to punk out on this one...

I believe US was like the only airline that Boeing sued for trying to walk away from contracted airplane orders after they made the large Airbus order. They settled out of court. I guess enough time has passed and those in charge at both are probably long gone.

Cheers
 
klkla
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:39 am

I think it's highly unlikely the order is from USAir, but the 737-900ER would provide significant operating flexibility over the A321 in markets like Las Vegas and Phoenix so that is one issue working in Boeing's favor if they're looking for an aircraft this large to replace their older 737's and 757's.

Most U.S. carriers in need of aircraft right now need widebodies more than narrow. AA has already recently placed a large order for 737-800's to begin the process of replacing the oldest MD80's so I doubt it's them.

I think it's probably from and Asian LCC. No where does it say this order has to be from the U.S. and there are a lot more potential cusotmers for an order this size of narrow bodies outside the U.S. than inside.
 
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STT757
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 10):
How about the 62 739ers for AA? That will free up a bunch of 752s for the rumored Fedex deal.

Or to free up 757s for International service from JFK, BOS and MIA.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 16):
Quick correction: CO has the 739 (non-ER). And I agree they wouldn't order 62 of them.

CO currently has 12 737-900s, with 24 737-900ERs on order.
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DL777LAX
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:28 am

I think that the 777s are for Delta. Just a hunch. They need more desperately, they cant get enough. The 737s might also be going for them, they are pushed to a capacity limit domestically, hence you see routes like LAX-SEA done on a ERJ. Who would be crazy enough to fly on an ERJ for 3 hours?
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futurecaptain
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 49):
A 739ER would require two extra FAs

Not if WN configured them with 199 seats with extra leg room...then it's only 1 extra FA with alot of extra revenue potential.  Smile One can dream.
Then reality kicks in and I must say I think the chances of WN ordering this plane has about the same chance as NW retiring the DC-9 tomorrow.

As far as my speculation goes...
AA: Already moved up deliveries of 738's. IMO these should hold them over until the next gen narrowbody aircraft come online. No real need for such a massive order when they are barely posting a profit and seem to want to reduce their debt. Not sure if they need an aircraft with the specs of the 739ER.
CO: Still have new narrowbody's coming off the line, including the 739ER. Doesn't appear to be in dire need to place such a large order
DL: Trying to re-brand themselves with an exit from BK, trying to turn a profit for the people who didn't sell them to US. Launching alot of new routes across the pond, would probably place a widebody order, not narrowbody.
NW: Taking new Airbi and CRJ's still. Doubtful they would order such a large number of these a/c right out of BK.
US: Has talked alot the past few months about ordering a/c, but so far that is all it has been AFAIK. I'm waiting for them to put their money on the table. Has been very vocal about their decisions and would probably have quickly announced this order.
UA: Rumored to not be taking new aircraft for awhile. Focusing on re-alligning what they already have and staying profitable.

Points to outside the US. Now, where is traffic growing at a rate that would warrant such a large order or what airlines have so many planes needing replacement?
Flame away.
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FLYGUY767
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 54):
LAX-SEA done on a ERJ.

It is done on an ERJ, if the route merits a larger aircraft. Such would be if the flights continually sold out, at that point Delta Air Lines mainline may takeover the service, or the service receives increased capacity. This has already happened in a few of the new LAX markets.

Las Vegas, where Delta went from 2 CRJ to a 737-800, alongside an ERJ
Oakland, where Delta went from 2 CRJ to 4 ERJ
Phoenix, where Delta went from 2 CRJ to 4 ERJ
Sacramento, where Delta went from 2 CRJ to 4 ERJ
San Francisco, where Delta went from 2 CRJ to 6 ERJ (by this summer)
San Jose, where Delta went from 2 CRJ to 4 ERJ

The Los Angeles market is showing promise and Delta is going to enterprise it as much as they can.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 54):
Who would be crazy enough to fly on an ERJ for 3 hours?

Plenty of people every single day. There are routes in excess of 3 hours flown by United Express, Express Jet and others. Such routes include SFO-SAT, SFO-AUS, SMF-SAT, SMF-MCI, SAN-MCI, and so forth.

-JD
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2wingtips
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:51 am

Let me first say how much I respect Hamlet and his views. However, I think the 62 UFO 739ERs are for US. It exactly matches the numbers they are looking for. I can't see DL/AA going for the 739ER and CO already have some on order and don't need another 62. If it's a US major, it's got to be US IMO.
I also now believe James Wallace has the 30 788 UFO wrong. He has said it is QR. I also believe it is US and that matches their RFP for 20-30 787/350.
It's just too much of a coincidence IMO that Boeing is holding UFOs for 30 788s and 62 789s that almost exactly fit the known US requirement.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:53 am

ok, my turn to jump on the rumor mill! I have a feeling it might be AA as well... the fact that it's all 739ers is a little surprising.. but stranger has happened I guess... (again, nothing but my gut behind the thinking it's AA..)

Quoting Luisca (Reply 19):
I am not familiar with the 739s capability's, but I would be worried about cargo hauling capacity and short/hot/high performance, AA flies its 757 to some very challenging places in Latin America and they are usually full with cargo.

Maybe AA is pulling a play from the CO strategy and going to beef up the East Coast, they do have quite a few 752s that could be launched across the pond from JFK, and BOS... (most likely JFK (anyone know if a 752 could make it to Europe from RDU?) and as you mentioned, they could beef up the Latin America Network from MIA and DFW... quite a bit of capacity to put into the more lucrative Intl market, not to mention the 739ER if used on the domestic runs in place of the 752 would decrease their domestic ASMs..

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 33):
Quick question, would Boeing only disclose a portion of an order and keep the rest a secret until it's officially announced. It seems like most logic points to AA as the buyer, except for the fact that they still need 787's and 738's for the MD80's. I would think that they would get it all over with in a single order. That is what makes me think it's someone else all together.



Quoting Luisca (Reply 41):
They cant, due to SEC regulations (Boeing being a publicly traded company) they are obligated to immediately report anything that can have significant impact for the company (like orders) so as soon as an order is on the books, Boeing has to disclose it.

Correct Luisca, but here's my question... if AA had only firmed a portion of the order.. i.e only secured the financing or down payment on a part of the order, couldn't they finalize it and keep the rest under wraps until AA could get financing for it on the capital markets?
1.4mm and counting...
 
wjcandee
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:22 pm

Let me just add my thoughts to this:

(1) Is there some reason that these couldn't be for a Far East or Middle East or Indian-area carrier, or, for that matter, a leasing company?

(2) To talk of the 739s as "757 replacements" at a major US carrier seems crazy to me. The 757 is still an insanely-efficient aircraft that has the guts to do all sorts of missions. The 739 is not as much of a lead sled as the A321, but it's not exactly overpowered or over-capable. Why replace the 757 with a less-capable aircraft with a much-higher capital cost? The dispatch reliability of the 757, AFAIK, is still excellent, and the type itself for many years had the best dispatch reliability at many carriers. Sure, there are some relatively-high-cycle, poorly-treated 757s around, and those are probably destined for FedEx, but, as to the others, far from being "freed up" for the FedEx order, which has distorted the used 757 market, I think that there are still plenty of passenger missions on which US carriers would love to deploy the 757. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL pick up some more, much as they did with L1011s, for example. And while it's true that AA did dump the ex-TWA 757s, I think that had more to do with lease negotiations and their pattern of getting rid of all things TWA (including employees) than it did anything else.

PS Don't get me wrong about the A321. I enjoyed flying it on US. But it is substantially-less versatile than similar-sized aircraft.

[Edited 2007-06-06 05:26:10]
 
Quetzal
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:23 pm

They are for Aeropelican....
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
 
airfrnt
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:31 pm

Interestingly enough, one of the things that the incredibly nasty letter the unions sent UA earlier this week mentioned was that they felt that UA was falling behind, because they were behind the other carriers in doing a fleet wide replenishment (how often is it that you see a union as for new planes?)

From day 1 I havn't believed that US would go Boeing. Airbus just has far too much leverage they can apply. They can forgive debt, keep the 350 at it's prior price (which is a heckuva discount now on top of a already decent discount for the 350 thanks to US being the American launch customer for the platform) and Airbus is the only US carrier that flew 330s.

This is beginning to make me think twice. Maybe Boeing is dangling some early slots out there. I suspect that US really wants to push the image that they are the carrier that knows what's going on, much like UA had the reputation in the 90s, and CO in this decade.

It could be AA. The smaller number of widebodies that were also purchased fit with AA's schemes. But if it's the American carriers waking up at last, the sales market is going to get very interesting very quickly.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
I'm willing to bet it's for either US or AA.

I'm willing to bet it's an airline not from the United States. I'd also be willing to place a small side wager on it being Continental.
 
Flighty
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:41 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 59):
To talk of the 739s as "757 replacements" at a major US carrier seems crazy to me. The 757 is still an insanely-efficient aircraft

Not really. The 757 now has the highest fuel burn of any narrowbody aircraft in pax service. Huge, HUGE point against it. Also, mx costs for it are rising. Also, the used market for it is strong. Great time to sell.

It may seem crazy to you, but 757s will be retired in droves starting very soon. The replacement will often be the 739ER. Bet on it.
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 56):
Phoenix, where Delta went from 2 CRJ to 4 ERJ

No Delta Connection flights on that route.
I love ASO!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 55):
Not if WN configured them with 199 seats with extra leg room...then it's only 1 extra FA with alot of extra revenue potential.

IIRC, the 739ER equipped with an all economy, 32-inch pitch (same as 733/73G) seating arrangement would hold 194.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
DIA
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 44):
As an example, CO used to fly the domestic 752 with 24F and 156Y. They are flying the 739 with 18F (soon to be 20F) and 149Y.

Thus for the same airline, the 752 had 180 seats, the 739 has (will have) 167 (169) seats. That's about 7% less, which isn't so bad if your load factors are under 90%. AA has 180 seat 757s and expect their 739 (should they get them) to have 20/149 like CO.

For the routes that still need the capacity/range/capability, AA will have PLENTY of 752s they will keep in the fleet for some time to come.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Much appreciated.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
IADCA
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:11 pm

A couple things come to mind here: As others have mentioned, if this order is for a US carrier, it's likely to aid in shifting 757s to transatlantic service. If one were particularly daring, that might even entail phasing out older 762s on some routes with poor loads, but that would be pretty darn risky.

What's more likely is either a leasing company or a foreign carrier. One thing that springs to mind is the recent announcement by the Chinese government that they were looking at a partial deregulation of the Chinese domestic market (sorry, no link, it was in Aviation Daily a couple days ago, but I don't have an online subscription). Such a move would open up more long and narrow routes to some "regional" carriers such as HU, and possibly even some of the larger carriers such as CZ. Another thing in the same region was that today's Aviation Daily noted that KE is starting a regional, and as a fairly loyal Boeing customer, that might fit them too, although ERs wouldn't seem to fit the bill there. Both of these are shots in the dark, though, so flame away.
 
B6WNQX
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 61):
the only US carrier that flew 330s

NW also flies the A332 & A333. I believe they will have a fleet of 31 or 32 (?) total A330 family aircraft when all the deliveries are done.
 
cumulonimbus
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 39):
WN is right now in problems with their markets. They are not making enough money on several of them to keep them profitable, so they have decided to slow down their expansion. Plus they have more than 100 737-700's on order, and so I don't think WN is the one.

As much as I dislike WN those facts are quite false.
 
catdaddy63
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:00 pm

I'll cast my vote that these frames are for AA as 752 replacements. With FX actively looking to add more 752 aircraft it would make sense that a major player like AA would strike a deal now and lock in a top dollar price rather than wait until UA or US beat them to it. The announcement would likely include Boeing and AA anouncing the 739 order, then AA and FX announcing the plans for the used 752's. IMHO would be a very smart move for both AA and FX.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 6):

I think AA will probably go for 737-7s and 738s, but not now. Later.

They would likely not go 737-7 as 737-8 has similar trip cost and they already have a fleet of them. AA is the only airline in the US I could imagine this order being for, to replace a large portion of their 757 fleet to be sold.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 7):
As an aside, I just hopped over to boeing.com to check total orders for the 787 and 737 and guess what, the 737 now stands at exactly 7,000 orders Big grin .

You know, it is entirely possible that Boeing could sell 10,000 737s before the 737 line closes down for good. That would be quite a monumental achievement.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):

Or maybe we'll all be shocked and WN is "super-sizing".

Nope, they are going single aircraft fleet, 737-7, their whole setup is designed around it, fast to turn, few F/A's needed, can run any route on their network with ease, it's their plane. They've been offered -800s, they don't want them.

Quoting PHLwok (Reply 35):
Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 30):
Could this be for UA?

I think UA would be quite a surprise. They really need more widebodies first, then should deal with their older 737 fleet. While UA 757s aren't in the top condition in the cabin, replacing them probably isn't the airline's top priority.

Let's be honest hear, UA's 757s might not be new, but they are in much better shape than AA's, probably in line with NW and DL's (DL non transcon). UA isn't buying new narrowbodies anytime soon. DL gave up 737-800s they had on order, NW is letting go of A319/320s and still has some to be delivered (they are still taking delivery of the type and are already breaking them up... crazy). CO has their fill of 737s, and I have a hard time imagining US is both cancelling A350 and ordering 737-900ER when they already operate A321 and are retiring their existing 737 classics (albeit slowly).

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 43):

You are forgetting the Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines are in the market for new equipment as well. However, if this is between American Airlines and US Airways I would suspect it be American Airlines. US Airways is overly loyal to Airbus, and this would break the sort of "gentleman's" agreement that US has with Airbus.

Doug Parker is a maverick, he could do anything. That said, I agree, if it is a US airline, it won't be US, it'll be AA.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 63):
It may seem crazy to you, but 757s will be retired in droves starting very soon. The replacement will often be the 739ER. Bet on it.

Retiring 757 in droves? I think not. Some retiring them, sure. They are getting old. Too many of them fill niche markets that can't otherwise be served. I'd be really surprised to see CO start getting rid of them in the next 10 years. US will I'm sure hold on to them probably close to that long as well. I don't see DL letting go of them either. As for NW, they are almost out of DC-9s, and they need a new type of aircraft to cling to and never retire. They've already started breaking up A319/320s, so I'm pretty sure they are going to fly their 757s for decades yet to come.

I do agree on 739ER taking the place of 752 though.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
dank
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 48):
5 777F + 30 787-8 --> AF / KLM

I'm not sure I would buy AF/KLM wanting 30 -8s (and not taking -8s as the first 787s they need).

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 57):
Let me first say how much I respect Hamlet and his views. However, I think the 62 UFO 739ERs are for US. It exactly matches the numbers they are looking for. I can't see DL/AA going for the 739ER and CO already have some on order and don't need another 62. If it's a US major, it's got to be US IMO.
I also now believe James Wallace has the 30 788 UFO wrong. He has said it is QR. I also believe it is US and that matches their RFP for 20-30 787/350.
It's just too much of a coincidence IMO that Boeing is holding UFOs for 30 788s and 62 789s that almost exactly fit the known US requirement.

The orders came nearly 2 months apart which doesn't fit with a single order, but more importantly are you implying that US lied that they hadn't ordered a plane after the UFO was announced? If they were both the same day, I would have said that was a pretty big coincidence. Add in the fact that I would assume they would need about 40 787s vs. 20 - 30 350s (reading Parker's notes above). Could totally be wrong, though.


cheers.
 
Flighty
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 71):
I don't see DL letting go of them either.

You don't see DL reducing its 120-plus fleet of 757s over the next 10 years? I really think they will be nearly gone by then... around 30 years old, replaced by 739ERs or maybe the successor, but mainly 739ERs. Not to Europe mind you, but the other 100 anyway.
 
siromega
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:48 pm

What about the 100 737 order rumor for AA at Paris? Aren't we about 38 short? Or maybe 62 firm and 38 options? Or 38 738s as MD80 replacements just not firmed up yet? Where is the AA companion 787 order?

AA is a more likely candidate than most, but I'm still not completely sold on the idea. We'll just have to wait... WWDC to keep me occupied next week then the air show the week after.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:57 pm

If the 739ERs were for AA, that wouldn't surprise me. I think AA will launch it's long anticipated international expansion with 757s in the next year. The 739ER would be a perfect replacement for the 757 on domestic routes. With the winglets and new interiors, the 757 will finally be a suitable aircraft for transatlantic ops at AA.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
Oykie
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
This order takes the -900ER to 169 orders, so the 100 order threshold had already been reached.

Wow. 100 orders more than he 736 already. I knew about Lion Air for 60 and Continental for 24, but I see more airlines have committed to this impressive bird.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 6):
And I'm leaning more towards US



Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Wow, I have a feeling this is for AA.

Both AA and US would benefit of getting these birds, but I have no clue as to whom will actually take these planes. But in the future both airlines could end up using this plane.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 14):
The only other carrier I see ordering the type in large number in the United States is Delta.

I am not so sure about Delta. Their Mad Doug's are good for now, but maybe their oldest 757 could be replaced.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
pilotaydin
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:02 pm

TK is getting several 737-900s  Wink i think 8 to be exact, can't wait to go to China with em  Smile
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
PEET7G
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 77):
TK is getting several 737-900s i think 8 to be exact, can't wait to go to China with em

You mean TK will serve routes to China with 737-900s  Confused  crowded 
Peet7G
 
snaiks
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):

The 62 737s that Boeing booked a UFO order last month was one order for 62 x 739ERs!

i hope that some of those will go to CM
 
Lumberton
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:40 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 43):
Where is it said that the order is for a US based airline?

 checkmark 

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 55):
Points to outside the US.

 checkmark 

Quoting IADCA (Reply 67):
What's more likely is either a leasing company or a foreign carrier.

I wouldn't rule out that these could be for ILFC or GECAS.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
777STL
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:03 pm

I'll put my money on AA for the 739s, but I don't see the 757s going anywhere en masse, anytime soon. And if it is AA, we'll be seeing a good deal of those 738s delivered before we see any 739s on property. I would think replacing the MD80 would be a priority right now, not the 757. But then again, who knows what FX is offering for those 757s, it could be a deal too good to pass up.
PHX based
 
LH506
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Wow. 100 orders more than he 736 already. I knew about Lion Air for 60 and Continental for 24, but I see more airlines have committed to this impressive bird.

Maybe Lion Air ordering some more to compete against AirAsia expansion announcement...
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
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keesje
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:47 pm

I think every large 757 operator that already has 737NG's could be a candidate.

Delta, Continental, American, US..

UA, NW unlikely, then we have ASIA and Europe, mostly low cost / leisure carriers.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
aa1818
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:53 pm

Why are we assuming that these are for American carriers? I agree that it is very possible and quite likely given AA, CO and DL's vast 737 fleets as well as US' need for an a/c that size. But wasn't EY in the market for short haul aircraft?? I can't seen to find the press release now but I remember reading and linking to an article on A.net that they were in the market for short-haul a/c. Also- what about China. I know they've ordered hundreds of 73Xs and A32Xs over the last 2 years, but hey, why not some more?? Or what about an airline with many subsidiaries- I can't quite think of one now (the most obvious one is LAN, but their shourt haul needs are covered by Airbus.) Could GOL use this many planes in Brazil/ South America as well as for their acquisitiion of VG??

I THINK that these could be for any carrier not only US based carriers (or did I miss something where Boeing said they were from a US based carrier???)

Cheers
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Stitch
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 63):
The 757 now has the highest fuel burn of any narrowbody aircraft in pax service.

Boeing claims the 752 was the most efficient narrowbody available when used on missions of 2000nm+ and the demand for her from leasing companies is increasing.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 65):
IIRC, the 739ER equipped with an all economy, 32-inch pitch (same as 733/73G) seating arrangement would hold 194.

That sounds about right. I was going off the 215 on Boeing's site, but that's actually at 28" pitch. 204 is at 30".

[Edited 2007-06-06 14:06:24]
 
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American 767
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 83):
Europe, mostly low cost / leisure carriers.

I'm thinking of Sky Europe. That's also a likely candidate. I don't think it would be Ryanair because they are buying 737's of only one variant, the 800, in large numbers.
I believe Sky Europe has ordered 900ER's already, so they could very well add more of those for future expansion. They could open new routes to leisure destinations out of Prague and Bratislava.
In my last post was talking about US carriers only but I didn't say that non US carriers would not buy it.

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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 44):
As an example, CO used to fly the domestic 752 with 24F and 156Y. They are flying the 739 with 18F (soon to be 20F) and 149Y.

Thus for the same airline, the 752 had 180 seats, the 739 has (will have) 167 (169) seats. That's about 7% less, which isn't so bad if your load factors are under 90%. AA has 180 seat 757s and expect their 739 (should they get them) to have 20/149 like CO.

CO's 737-900ERs will seat more than their 737-900s, IIRC it has to do with the flat bulk head at the rear of the aircraft that is in the 737-900ER.

CO's 737-900ER's will seat 20 first class, 153 coach.
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Burkhard
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 84):
Why are we assuming that these are for American carriers?

Pure speculation: Ryanair to operate them from UK/EI to US East coast, for $5 per passenger kilo?
 
jfk777
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:42 pm

I would not be surprised if AA ordered them since they need 3000 miles to go from Miami to La Paz and have many 757 flights to Hawaii. Also Many Miami to the Caribean and Latin America flights are 3-5 hours, so this order would fit very nicely into those plans. AA also has many tanscon flights with 757's so 739ER would work there too.
 
Danny
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 86):
I'm thinking of Sky Europe. That's also a likely candidate.

Sky Europe already has too many aircraft ordered. Their financials are in very bad shape.
 
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scbriml
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 85):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 63):
The 757 now has the highest fuel burn of any narrowbody aircraft in pax service.

Boeing claims the 752 was the most efficient narrowbody available when used on missions of 2000nm+ and the demand for her from leasing companies is increasing.

We all know there are missions that only the 757 can perform (that's why we all like it!) However, my understanding is that if an A321 or 739 can do the mission required, they would both burn significantly less fuel than a 757 doing it. The 757 almost certainly has greater payload carrying ability than the others, and maybe that's where Boeing is claiming the efficiency - it can carry more, further?
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zvezda
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 30):
UA has about 93 752's

UA have 97 757-200s.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 32):
UA has no plans to acquire aircraft for a few years. They actually still have deferred A319/A320 orders.

Specifically, UA have 42 A319/A320s on deferred order at very attractive prices. There is no way this 737-900ER order could be for UA.
 
columba
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 11):
Personally, I feel AA is more likely. US will, IMO, stay Airbus.

I think so, too.

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 39):

Excellent post. I have the same thoughts. AA is for me the most likely candidate.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
DAYflyer
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
For Airbus his comments covered the fact that obviously more A32X would further add to scale of economies due parts, training, crews etc are already in place for the model. Airbus was allowing US to keep its original A350 pricing which represents a 30% discount off the now even more capable aircraft

Which is exactly why they WONT go with Boeing at US. I think this is an AA order.
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MCOflyer
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:47 am

I really think this for US or AA. If this is for US, they will announce it at Paris. Same with AA. I just want to say that the order is likely for US. I believe the 737/752 fleet= 60 something a/c.

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aerojoe
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 48):
8 777-300ER + 1 777F --> Qatar (this one i have a very strong feeling is true.)

Could the 8 77W be for NZ? There was mention in the NZ aviation thread last month that NZ board were to consider a 77W order of around 8 aircraft.
 
columba
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 63):
Not really. The 757 now has the highest fuel burn of any narrowbody aircraft in pax service. Huge, HUGE point against it. Also, mx costs for it are rising. Also, the used market for it is strong. Great time to sell.

It may seem crazy to you, but 757s will be retired in droves starting very soon. The replacement will often be the 739ER. Bet on it

I think so, too. right now Fedex is looking for 757s to replace their 727 (which makes me sad as a 727 fan but those are the days... I just love to see the sight of a Fedex 727-200 on approach here in NJ, haven' t seen a 727-200 in Berlin in years.)
So retiring the 757 now really makes sense for some airline because now they still could get a very good price for them.
Adding the 737-900ER to a fleet of 737-700s and -800s is a perfect solution for airlines like AA.
AA said that they are looking for a MD 80 replacement (this is too very sad for me since I love T-tail aircraft with rear mounted engines) and therefore I believe a 737-800 and -900 fleet to replace MD 80s and 757s is the best way to go for them.
AA just makes much more sense for me then US that already flies the A321.

[Edited 2007-06-06 18:22:05]
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
columba
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 95):
I really think this for US or AA. If this is for US, they will announce it at Paris

I think that the business relations between US and Airbus are too good that they would snub Airbus on their home turf
that way. It would be a huge blow for Airbus. If US had ordered the 737-900 they would announce it now especially if they are behind the 30 787s. There would be no need to wait.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 94):
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
For Airbus his comments covered the fact that obviously more A32X would further add to scale of economies due parts, training, crews etc are already in place for the model. Airbus was allowing US to keep its original A350 pricing which represents a 30% discount off the now even more capable aircraft

Which is exactly why they WONT go with Boeing at US. I think this is an AA order

My sentiments exactly.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Danny
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 98):
If US had ordered the 737-900 they would announce it now especially if they are behind the 30 787s

It is not US behind those 30+30 787s.

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