EI321
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 49):
The A330 was and is a very good airplane, it has a year or two more left in it as far as sales go but its end is rapidly approaching, regardless of ones willingness to accept that.

Its end is rapidly approaching.........so lets hike up production? Should we assume that the 777s end is approaching more rapidly on point of the plans for less production ramp up?

A350 aside for the moment, dont get me wrong, the 787 is a fabulous plane, but its no good if you plan to expand before 2012. Thats 5 years away.
 
norcal
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting EI737NG (Reply 10):
Amazed the order wasn't for 14 frames, ordering 6 330's instead of 350's

I thought there would be a bigger order too.

Anyways congrats to Airbus and Aer Lingus  Smile
 
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OA260
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 47):
Official Pic.

Is that just a bad resolution or does it actually look like that on press releases etc??? The one Shamrock350 posted be in unofficial is actually better IMHO.
 
drexotica
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 46):
Nice to have another well respected customer for the A350 may many more follow......

Here's a question: which airlines are not 'well respected'?

It is a bit amusing to hear the standard kudo's for various airlines each time they order some planes. I look forward to hearing 'Congratulations to A/B for getting another unrespected/disrespected customer for their magnificent AXXX/BYYY.'
N707PA - Best looking commercial aircraft ever.
 
aminobwana
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:40 pm

Only a few comments and quotes:

Quote:
Chief Executive Dermot Mannion said the airline did negotiate with Airbus' U.S. rival Boeing Co. for the possible purchase of its new 787 long-haul jet. But he said Airbus offered "an exceptional price" and credited Airbus with being "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787


See:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070606/ireland_aer_lingus_airbus.html?.v=1

1) "an exceptional price" ?? How exceprtional ??

2) "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787 ?? It seems that this gentleman is better informed than Emirates, SIA and ILFC. Or possibly this statement was a "quid pro quo" for the exceptional price ??

aminobwana
 
Poitin
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 42):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 41):
But what does a fully laden A350-800 require? Probably as much as the 777 or A340.

Im not sure, but it does not matter much as the new runway will be open by the time EI recieve them.

My, my, an optimist. Have you looked at Irish politics lately?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0604/election.html

Quoting EISHN (Reply 48):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 41):
but one option is for him to form "My Way Airlines" and start flying to the same long haul destinations as EI.

Not going to happen. During a press conference regarding new routes for SNN, MOL said that the newly propsed sister airline of FR will not fly long haul from Ireland. Ireland does not feature in its plans, but aircraft may be based in the likes of SNN, but fly from there other bases in Europe.

My reading of that report was My Way was going to be a "European" airline, much like FR is, and have bases in several cities. I did not see anything that said. "No f***ing way are we flying in and out of DUB." And in any case, we have no idea what MOL will do until he does it. More than likely he is still looking at EI with hungry eyes. We will know in about a month.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting DrExotica (Reply 53):
'Congratulations to A/B for getting another unrespected/disrespected customer for their magnificent AXXX/BYYY.'

There are those who have accused Airbus of having "poor-quality" customers.  Wow!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Joni
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
2) "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787 ?? It seems that this gentleman is better informed than Emirates, SIA and ILFC. Or possibly this statement was a "quid pro quo" for the exceptional price ??

That the A350's range is a bit better than B787's isn't AFAIK in doubt, and at least Airbus claims a better fuel-burn figure as well (Boeing may dispute that, but they're paid to do that just as Airbus' guys are paid to make the claim in the first place).

Has Emirates, SIA or ILFC said otherwise about the A350XWB/B787 fuel burn figures?

http://www.aviationindustrygroup.com/index.cfm?format=996
 
EI321
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 55):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 42):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 41):
But what does a fully laden A350-800 require? Probably as much as the 777 or A340.

Im not sure, but it does not matter much as the new runway will be open by the time EI recieve them.


My, my, an optimist. Have you looked at Irish politics lately?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0604/ele....html

Er, that has something to do with a runway?

Quoting Poitin (Reply 55):
More than likely he is still looking at EI with hungry eyes. We will know in about a month.

He has said that he will sell the EI stake it the bid is turned down by the EU.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
1) "an exceptional price" ?? How exceprtional ??

I would guess $2.4b less discount.

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
2) "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787 ??

Maybe Airbus's performance guarantees were better than Boeing's? It's entirely possible.

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
Or possibly this statement was a "quid pro quo" for the exceptional price ??

Are you suggesting he's lying?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
bigjku
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 50):
Its end is rapidly approaching.........so lets hike up production? Should we assume that the 777s end is approaching more rapidly on point of the plans for less production ramp up?

Well the production hike is understandable in light of the current facts. The window to sell the plane is pretty much fixed. Anything you cannot deliver before 787 and A350's are widely avaliable is going to be tough to sell. Additionally Airbus has a cash crunch and increased short term deliveries help them out.

Additionally, with the long time to A350 EIS, increased production short term is going to allow them to make the A330 avaliable on very short notice as a gap filler provided they do not move ahead delivery for other customers.

And yes, we should assume the 777's end is rapidly approaching though not as rapidly as the A330. As the larger variants of the A350 and 787 come on line the 777 will go through the same process.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 47):

The titles are tiny in the official pic and the light green looks almost yellow. I was hoping they would do it flying over green fields and mountains to represent Ireland like they did with the recent QR pic over the desert.
 
columba
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting DrExotica (Reply 53):
Here's a question: which airlines are not 'well respected'?

Well I think Aer Lingus is much more well respected than some start up Asian, Middle Eastern low cost airline.
But you are right in the end the manufacturer does not care who he is selling its aircraft to as long as the customer pays.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
c680
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 50):
A350 aside for the moment, dont get me wrong, the 787 is a fabulous plane, but its no good if you plan to expand before 2012. Thats 5 years away.

Exactly. This deal speaks volumes to:

1) EI needs new widebodies - soon. Boeing doesn't have a product to deliver in the near future (B767 is not a serious option for EI due to their current Airbus fleet) and 787 delivery slots are getting harder to come by with the potential for big USA carriers jumping in. Airbus can delivery A330/A340 class aircraft soon.

2) The second hand / lease market for A330 class aircraft is tight, so while EI normally goes the lease route, in this case it makes more sense to take advantage of Airbus' need for new A350 XWB customers to squeeze the A330/A350 price down.

3) A large percentage of intercontinental Irish traffic is to / from North America, and Ireland is one of the closest European countries to North America. There's a reason the North Atlantic tracks call Gander and Shanwick. EI doesn't need the range of other airlines - they are already smack in the middle of the North Atlantic (except for DXB or if they go to Asia - not as high a priority as the North Atlantic) the A330 class is perfect. IIRC EI was one of the first A330 class operators.

4) This order was not as large as expected, and I think that is a good thing for EI. It keeps their options open, and in spite of those who would love to see mega orders for every carrier, one must applaud EI for being fiscally responsible. It's better to order More aircraft as you need them than to have too many sitting around with no duties, or worse: running around burning expenses with little revenue (passengers)

just my  twocents 
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
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A340313X
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:20 am

Just to clarify, the A330-300X gained the centre fuel tank of the A330-200 and hence a fair bit more range over the regular A330-300 (about 1000nm). The A330-300E adds tp this the flight deck and cabin enhancements that the A340-300E got.

I believe the engine options have stayed the same. There are X versions with all three types of engine, so I presume there will be E versions too.

This is good news for Aer Lingus, Airbus and GE. I presume Aer Lingus' new A330s will be GE for commonality with the old...?

[Edited 2007-06-06 17:21:40]
 
WINGS
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 49):
Despite what you seem obsessed with thinking no one was predicting the immediate demise of the A330. What is being said and is true is that the A330 will do well pretty much only on top up orders and orders for airlines that are waiting on the A350. Additionally the freighter and tanker will sell becaues there is no competing modern product except the 767. (Though I have to say adding the tankers in is somewhat odd, if the USAF were to order 180 767 tankers and people started to claim the 767 program was still a great hit that would be odd as well)

In reality they have sold 44 A330's to passenger airlines this year. They will have a good year this year and possibly one more good year next year then the program will begin to die off much like the 767 has and the A330/777 eventually will. Despite what many members think that is not a knock on the program, it is just the facts of the situation.

The A330 was and is a very good airplane, it has a year or two more left in it as far as sales go but its end is rapidly approaching, regardless of ones willingness to accept that.

I never suggested that the A330 would not die off. What I am saying is that the A330 still has great potential in terms of sales in the coming years. I have previously predicted and once again reaffirm my position in saying that the A330 - The Best Is Yet To Come  Wink

Do not forget that many airlines have actually opted for the A330-300 vs the 777-200/ER. Want me to name a few???

Singapore Airlines
Air AsiaX
Thai International

How many 777-200/200ER has boeing managed to sell since last year? Even the A343 the closest rival to the 772ER, outsold it in 2006.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:25 am

Anybody know what engines they have selected for the A330-300E ? the current -300's in the fleet are early birds and have a lower MTOW than the -200's.
Recent -300's LH/SK/AC seem to have an MTOW of 233K.
Maybe these new -300E's will be able to do the West coast out of Dublin's limited runway with more powerful engines.
 
EI321
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Clydenairways (Reply 66):
Anybody know what engines they have selected for the A330-300E ?

We can assume with almost complete certainty that they will be General Electric CF6 powered.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 67):
We can assume with almost complete certainty that they will be General Electric CF6 powered.

The CF6-80E1A3 is the most powerful member of the CF6 family at 69,800lbs. Is there a new CF6 variant planned for the A330E?

KrisYYZ
 
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A340313X
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 43):
The A343E's are equipped with engines that have higher rated thrust than the the A343X's, correct?So can we assume that the A330E ordered by EI will have a new version of the CF6 engine, or will these birds have GEnx engines?

As far as I am aware the A340-300X and A340-300E both have the same CFM56-5C4 engines with the same or very similar thrust - around 34,000lbs each, which were introduced for the original A340-313. There are varients of this engine such as the -5C4/1, 5C4/P and -5C4/1P but the differences with these I don't know, most likely reduced fuel burn than higher power.

As for the A330s Aer Lingus currently operates A330-202s with CF6-80E1A4 engines rated at 66,870lbs of thrust each and A330-301s with CF6-80E1A2s rated at 67,500lbs of thrust each. Qatar are the only operator of the A330-303X thus far and I cannot find any information on the engines on the X, which of course includes the centre fuel tank from the A330-200. Qantas A330-303s have CF6-80E1A2s as do EI's A330-301s so I'd guess the new aircraft will either have E1A2s or more likely the more powerful E1A3s (68,240lbs each) to cope with the extra MTOW that the X and E have over the basic -300.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
Airbus A330 - The Best is Yet To Come

More good news for the A330 - the UK Tanker deal is given the go-ahead by the Government UK Govt Agrees £13bn Tanker Deal (by Scbriml Jun 6 2007 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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A340313X
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 68):
The CF6-80E1A3 is the most powerful member of the CF6 family at 69,800lbs. Is there a new CF6 variant planned for the A330E?

KrisYYZ

Where do you get your numbers for the A3? I have found between 68,240lbs and 72,000lbs....
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
1) "an exceptional price" ?? How exceprtional ??

2) "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787 ?? It seems that this gentleman is better informed than Emirates, SIA and ILFC. Or possibly this statement was a "quid pro quo" for the exceptional price ??

Don't worry Aminobwana, I'd sure as you've always maintained about Airbus products, that these aircraft were a mix of discounted way below cost and free aircraft  Wink
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
krisyyz
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting A340313X (Reply 71):
Where do you get your numbers for the A3? I have found between 68,240lbs and 72,000lbs....

http://www.geaviation.com/engines/commercial/comparison_turbofan.html
 
jacobin777
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:58 am

Congratulations to both EI and Airbus... thumbsup , now EI need to fly to SFO... yes 
"Up the Irons!"
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 74):
now EI need to fly to SFO

Only a few months and you see those green A330s landing at SFO  Big grin
 
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A340313X
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 73):

*bookmarks page*

Fantastic. Thanks.
 
aminobwana
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 72):
Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
1) "an exceptional price" ?? How exceprtional ??

2) "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787 ?? It seems that this gentleman is better informed than Emirates, SIA and ILFC. Or possibly this statement was a "quid pro quo" for the exceptional price ??

You have said it better than I did !! Unfortunately, this is not funny, but very serious given the financial situation of
Airbus !

Your opinion about my second statement ??

aminobwana
 
jacobin777
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 75):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 74):
now EI need to fly to SFO

Only a few months and you see those green A330s landing at SFO  biggrin 

....I'm telling you, I cannot wait to see the "green shamrock" come to SFO.. bigthumbsup 
"Up the Irons!"
 
EI321
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:34 am

Quote:

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 77):
Your opinion about my second statement ??


I assume you mean this one:

Quote:

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
2) "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787 ?? It seems that this gentleman is better informed than Emirates, SIA and ILFC. Or possibly this statement was a "quid pro quo" for the exceptional price ??

Is there any particular reason to suggest that it is incorrect? The figures do seem to concur with his statement - the A350 does have a slightly larger range, and the Trent XWB will be an improved version of the Trent on the 787 (inc slightly better fuel burn, 2% IIRC), and the A350 will have a slightly higher composite content that the 787 (52% Vs 50%).

Your being waaay too optimistic Aminobwana  


Speaking of Emirates, they are Mr Mannion's previous employer. As a director of Emirates, he was heavily involved with their fleet acquisitions, including the 777's.

[Edited 2007-06-06 18:48:47]
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 73):
http://www.geaviation.com/engines/commercial/comparison_turbofan.html

Thanks for the link. Will be very useful.
 
khobar
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 57):
Has Emirates, SIA or ILFC said otherwise about the A350XWB/B787 fuel burn figures?

"Executives with Emirates and Singapore airlines, as well as International Lease Finance Corp., Airbus' biggest customer, all said details have been lacking from Airbus about the A350, which is being developed as a competitor to Boeing's 787 as well as the 777.

"There is no hurry. We just don't know enough yet about the A350 XWB program to make a decision," said Maurice Flanagan, executive vice chairman of Emirates Airlines & Group.

"We don't even know what the seat mile costs are," Flanagan said."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/318469_iata05.html
 
egnr
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting A340313X (Reply 64):
This is good news for Aer Lingus, Airbus and GE. I presume Aer Lingus' new A330s will be GE for commonality with the old...?

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that RR could provide an attractive engine package now for both the A330s and A350s EI has ordered?  stirthepot 
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
krisyyz
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting A340313X (Reply 76):
*bookmarks page*

Fantastic. Thanks.



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 80):
Thanks for the link. Will be very useful.
you're welcome.. it is a great reference source...

KrisYYZ

[Edited 2007-06-06 19:07:46]
 
Poitin
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 58):
My, my, an optimist. Have you looked at Irish politics lately?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0604/ele....html

Er, that has something to do with a runway?

Well, just look at what the Greens want to do about highways. Just what makes you think they will support a new runway? If they tie up with FF look for all of that to go away. They are the ones wanted to tax air travel in the UK. Expect them to do the same in the old sod.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 58):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 55):
More than likely he is still looking at EI with hungry eyes. We will know in about a month.

He has said that he will sell the EI stake it the bid is turned down by the EU.

I have seen many comments from and attributed to MOL. While he may decide to sell the EI stock if he is turned down, the betting is that the EC will require it. We don't know what will happen.

The scary thing is for the first time FR is not growing by leaps and bounds, and MOL has to do something about it. Is he going to go after EI short haul? Will he start My Way sooner than later? We don't know.

Interesting that he calls the EI merger a "long shot"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0605/ryanair.html
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:18 am

It took long enough. This was the worst kept secret and least competitive "competition" in the industry.

The question was never "will they buy the 787" but only "when will they announce their A350 order."

Quoting WINGS (Reply 4):
This is wonderful news for both the A350 and A350X program. Airbus has finally managed to capture yet another launch customer for the program, from an important and respected customer.

I've never seen a glass more half full than when you fill it...  Wink

Did you even think Boeing had a chance here? This was an "in the bank" order for years, just a matter of when. EI is not going to buy the 787, never was.

As for such a small airline giving the A350 a shot in the arm, I don't believe EI does that. It's a nice order, but no bank is going to jump for joy and say "now that EI has signed on, we see this program as a clear winner. Here's more money."

SQ gives the A350 a shot in the arm (when they actually sign). UA or BA or AF or KL or LH or CX etc. would be a really important and respected customer. I know we have a lot of irish people here, but EI is not an important customer anymore, especially when it comes to fleet choice.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 77):
You have said it better than I did !! Unfortunately, this is not funny, but very serious given the financial situation of
Airbus !

Actually, you just quoted yourself, and then agreed with yourself. hehe
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
cygnuschicago
Posts: 518
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 77):
You have said it better than I did !! Unfortunately, this is not funny, but very serious given the financial situation of
Airbus !

Actually, you just quoted yourself, and then agreed with yourself. hehe

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 85):
Did you even think Boeing had a chance here? This was an "in the bank" order for years, just a matter of when. EI is not going to buy the 787, never was.

A lot of people thought Boeing never had a chance with NWA, AC or Qantas, either. Must be a rough day for you  Wink Don't worry, AA will announce soon and give you something to celebrate  Wink
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 85):

Did you even think Boeing had a chance here? This was an "in the bank" order for years, just a matter of when. EI is not going to buy the 787, never was.

Actaually the 787 was roumered to be the preferred choice at one stage, and up until quite recently. My guess is that Airbus offered EI these frames with significan guarantees regarding cost and performance. Their record RE new programmes has hardly been stellar, with the A380 and A340NG, and even teh A318 to some extent.

HOWEVER, EI are a very suitable launch customer, being the first customer for the A330 to gain ETOPS 180, etc.

Also bear in mind that the first customers for the 787 in europ was First Choice and Blue Panorama. As highly respected as those customers may be they can not come close to the penache and experience EI brings to the table. Although EI is not the biggest airline out there, its reputation is still ver highly regarded by both Boeing & Airbus.

Brian.
 
EI321
Posts: 4998
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 84):
Just what makes you think they will support a new runway? If they tie up with FF look for all of that to go away.

Poitin, theres nothing left to support at this stage, the runway has been granted full planning permission. Once the appeals process is finished, thats it. Even if the Greens suddenly decided they did not want it, its too late. I should also add that Fianna Fails policy is to build the second runway, and that in a Fianna Fail / Green coalition we would be the ruling senior partner.

For the record I should probably state the fact that I'm actually a member of Fianna Fail myself. My constituency is Meath East, which as it happens is right under the flight path of both the existing and the proposed runway. I should also point out that the Greens did not present any opposition to the Runway in their election campaign.

As an Architect by profession, I'm also in daily contact with the Planning Authority's of Dublin, including Fingal Co. Co.

If your interested, heres the application details:
http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftl...ckURL=Search%20Criteria%20>%20
 
EISHN
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:31 am

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:23 am

For those interested in the new interiors, hers a demo of the new Premier seat (a thank you to EI787 for finding it):
http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obe...gdffgdfkg.0&P_OID=-8077&Category=3

And the new Classic Economy cabin:
Big version: Width: 500 Height: 376 File size: 31kb

You can still see the plastic wrapping on the floor.
St. Flannan/ Fhlanain- She took off to find the footlights, And I took off for the sky
 
EIDAA
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:12 am

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 85):
Did you even think Boeing had a chance here? This was an "in the bank" order for years, just a matter of when. EI is not going to buy the 787, never was.

Why was this an "in the bank" order for years? I don't understand this statement. Do you really think EI would just settle for whatever offer Airbus made them regarding A350s without even considering going with Boeing? EI are not that stupid and this was up in the air between both manufacturers for a LONG time. As Brian mentioned above, up until fairly recently it was believed EI favoured the 787 due to the then lack of firm information on the capabilities of the A350, but that the interim aircraft offered by Airbus, ie the slot availability of A333s would be sweetener for going with the A350XWB.

Also, keep in mind that EI only recently became an "all Airbus" operator and the management team behind that move have long since left... one of them subsequently taking up residence at BA. There was no reason for remaining an all Airbus operation if the 787 was the better aircraft for them. The whole thing over commonality should not be the main issue people look at when ordering a new generation widebody for fleet replacement.

I'm sure EI will have secured a nice deal with these orders, and when the A350XWB finally does roll out and hit Irish soil, it will be a fantastic aircraft and a great rival to the 787.
Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
 
columba
Posts: 5232
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 85):
This was the worst kept secret and least competitive "competition" in the industry.

But the better product has won when AA and CO order the 787 ??
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
al2637
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:11 am

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:43 am

Poitin I think you are misrepresenting the Green party a bit there! They DO realise the importance of motorways and airports to the economic success of the country. I have seen countless interviews with Gormley and Sergent explaining how roads were essential to Ireland's infrastructure, but that we need to plan better so that people didn't have to drive as far or as much.... all pretty sensible really.


Cullen has come out of the negotiations tonight saying he didn't believe the Greens would try and stop or delay the national motorway projects either!
 
EIDAA
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:12 am

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 89):
If your interested, heres the application details:
http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftl...0>%20

Thanks EI321, interesting read! I couldn't see it on that site, but how long is the appeals process expected to take?
Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17772
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 85):
This was the worst kept secret and least competitive "competition" in the industry.

Huh? There were lots of suggestions that EI would indeed select the 787. I guess it was more competitive than AA or DL ordering the 787 - will they even look at the A350?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 84):
Well, just look at what the Greens want to do about highways

We call them motorways over here, and believe it or not your right (.... well kinda anyway), the Green party had major problems with T2 (although so far haven't really tried to deal with the new runway), they wanted to scrap T2 and instead have a high speed rail link between DUB and SNN, they are a bunch of weirdo's but they crave power, they will help move FF in the right direction but they will never come as close to directing FF as the PD's did.

Quoting Poitin (Reply 84):
Will he start My Way sooner than later?

mmmmh we'll see

Quoting EI321 (Reply 89):
I'm actually a member of Fianna Fail myself

Fair play to you, I knew there was a reason I added you to my respected users list, I'm from Dublin north central, when they use runway 16/32 (ok not very often) aircraft pretty much fly directly over my house and to be honest, there was more noise from FR running engine tests on 732's (Hertz was one of the worst aircraft) then there is from any aircraft I hear taking off and landing.

[Edited 2007-06-06 21:46:06]
John Hancock
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 72):
Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 54):
1) "an exceptional price" ?? How exceptional ??

2) "better on fuel and better on range" than the Boeing 787 ?? It seems that this gentleman is better informed than Emirates, SIA and ILFC. Or possibly this statement was a "quid pro quo" for the exceptional price ??

Don't worry Aminobwana, I'd sure as you've always maintained about Airbus products, that these aircraft were a mix of discounted way below cost and free aircraft



Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 86):
Actually, you just quoted yourself, and then agreed with yourself. hehe

As I have asked now two times to comment my statement no.2 and instead receive nonobjective and unwarranted comments on my question No.1. I conclude you concede statement no,2 and that you are not interested on a objective discussion. Therefore the discussion from my side is terminated.

aminobwana
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 23667
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 96):
they wanted to scrap T2 and instead have a high speed rail link between DUB and SNN, they are a bunch of weirdo's but they crave power, they will help move FF in the right direction but they will never come as close to directing FF as the PD's did.

A mate told me about that idea and I didnt belive him about the high speed link!!! Are they on drugs!!! They need to be stopped from even getting anywhere near those kind of plans. Greens are bad for Ireland and the economy. They need to be run out of town. We will be paying double the tax on air travel that we are now !!!
 
Poitin
Posts: 2651
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: Aer Lingus Decides - 6 X A330-300E 6 X A350

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 89):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 84):
Just what makes you think they will support a new runway? If they tie up with FF look for all of that to go away.

Poitin, theres nothing left to support at this stage, the runway has been granted full planning permission.

Is it funded and more import, has the contract to build it been let? What the Greens will do is cancel it. I've seen it happen too many times. Do I want them to? Absolutely not, but that is what they will do. Just wait and see.

The Greens are a weird lot, prone to hug trees and salamanders.

[Edited 2007-06-06 22:27:29]
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