764flyer
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:11 am

I see that DL will be stopping sfo-hnl service Sept 1. They've had this service for more than a decade now and checking recent loads it is full or near full every day. Anyone know what the thinking was in stopping this route or know if they were actually losing money? Granted HNL is leisure and low yield, but seems hard to lose money on a full 767-400.
Stopping cvg-hnl service at the same time probably makes sense because that flight seems to have pretty light loads but surprised with sfo.
 
db373
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:15 am

That 764 would make more money flying internationally. Hawaii isn't as high-yielding as transatlantic.

Besides, it didn't make much sense to have one daily flight out of SFO where they don't have that big of an operation.
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PGNCS
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:15 am

Yes, they are full, and yes, SFO-HNL is profitable. All Delta's HNL is full, in fact. Delta thinks the 764's can generate more revenue in Europe. They would not be chopping the Hawaii service if they had the airplanes to do everything they want to do.
 
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LTU932
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting 764flyer (Thread starter):
I see that DL will be stopping sfo-hnl service Sept 1. They've had this service for more than a decade now and checking recent loads it is full or near full every day

Remember the basic principle: high load factors do not always equal high yields. If the flight was losing money, it may be through highly diluted yields due to competition from the likes of UA, HA and probably also TZ (though they fly from OAK if I'm not mistaken) in the area. Plus, they may also be cancelling the route to reassign the 764 to more transatlantic flights, since DL has been converting their 764 to an international configuration with more premium Business Elite seats.

EDIT to add: Now I see the flight was profitable after all, but the overall economics of having one plane based in SFO for only this flight was probably the main reason for the route to be terminated.

[Edited 2007-06-06 23:18:27]
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PGNCS
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 1):
Besides, it didn't make much sense to have one daily flight out of SFO where they don't have that big of an operation.

The flight does fine, and would be staying if it weren't for greater needs in Europe.
 
IADLHR
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting 764flyer (Thread starter):
Stopping cvg-hnl service at the same time probably makes sense because that flight seems to have pretty light loads but surprised with sfo.

The last I heard CVG-HNL was going to be reinstated in the late fall/early winter. Does anybody know if that has changed?
 
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
Now I see the flight was profitable after all, but the overall economics of having one plane based in SFO for only this flight was probably the main reason for the route to be terminated.

Actually that wasn't a problem either, the plane went to and came from ATL where it also had very good loads and reasonable yields. You are right that it's just a question of competing priorities and Europe winning the revenue contest.
 
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:27 am

The speculation is that DL will be completely realigning their Hawaii operations this fall.

Primarily due to two reasons:
1) Freeing up 767 aircraft for International routes with traditionally higher yields
2) Introduction of former TWA/AA ETOPS 757's

Some of the flights to the outer islands haven't been able to hold their own as of late. With the exception of SLC-HNL on a non-international 763, its possible that all other Hawaii flights from the West Coast will be 757's out of LAX.


CVG-HNL is supposed to come back seasonal, but like everything its never certain until they are actually flying it.
 
764flyer
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DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 1):

Makes sense. But DL has changed to 763s for LAX-HNL so curious why they wouldn't do the same on the SFO-HNL flight. SURELY they're not out of domestic 763s especially considering they're paring down Florida service. Maybe a 3rd LAX-HNL flight I could understand but with these load factors I've seen pretty much all year, it just surprises me to see them axe approximately 500 seats a day to HNL between the loss of the cvg and sfo flights.
 
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RE: DL Stopping Sfo-hnl Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting 764flyer (Thread starter):
Granted HNL is leisure and low yield, but seems hard to lose money on a full 767-400.

Many airlines lose money operating full flights. Frequent flyer redemptions also make up a lot of passengers on Hawaii flights which further depresses yield.
 
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LTU932
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 6):
Actually that wasn't a problem either, the plane went to and came from ATL where it also had very good loads and reasonable yields.

So basically, it was always ferried to SFO as a revenue flight from ATL and back, right? Sounds reasonable, since that way the plane can make money even when it's "just" being ferried to another location.
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RE: DL Stopping Sfo-hnl Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):

You just addressed one of my other questions with this post. As smart as DL has been with their network moves as of late, it seems weird they would completely drop the ball on Hawaii. Anyone have any word on if (or when) the ex-TWA 757s will be used to Hawaii? Would certainly allow them to start up KOA again (probably from LAX this time), add another OGG probably and even add LIH perhaps. If DL is able to fill 4 764s from the west coast a day (oversales almost every day lately) seems like they could have their cake and eat it too with using the 764s to Europe and adding on etops 757s.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 8):
But DL has changed to 763s for LAX-HNL so curious why they wouldn't do the same on the SFO-HNL flight. SURELY they're not out of domestic 763s especially considering they're paring down Florida service.

The 767 fleets (of all types) are stretched EXTREMELY thin, the 764 especially.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
So basically, it was always ferried to SFO as a revenue flight from ATL and back, right? Sounds reasonable, since that way the plane can make money even when it's "just" being ferried to another location.

Well technically not ferried, they are revenue flights, but yes, the route started in ATL and went ATL-SFO-HNL-SFO-ATL; of course a given aircraft might not do all 5 legs of that, when it gets to HNL the aircraft that came from somewhere else might go back to SFO, but you get the idea. Good loads, decent yields, and worthwhile if they had the aircraft.

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 11):
As smart as DL has been with their network moves as of late, it seems weird they would completely drop the ball on Hawaii.

You are presuming they have. I would personally like more Hawaii service too, but the edict from above has put priorities elsewhere.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:47 am

(Speaking to all major airlines in the United States): "All those of you without a HNL flight to either LAX or SFO, raise your hand"...empty silence.

It seems as though all major airlines have had HNL flights to LAX and SFO at one time...and while I know the market is there, I didn't know how so many airlines could possibly make money flying from non-hub airports, competing not only against each other, but how Hawaiian AND Aloha.

I think it is very smart of Delta to re-align its Hawaii flights and get the wide-bodies where they can make the most money, which currently is international.

I hate to recommend that, as they offer the only domestic wide-body flights from SAN other than Hawaiian, but they can't stick around just for me!!
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting 764flyer (Thread starter):
Stopping cvg-hnl service at the same time probably makes sense because that flight seems to have pretty light loads but surprised with sfo

Again, same logic. HNL was the only route that still had DL using the 764 on from CVG, so again, the other needs are more important.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
CVG-HNL is supposed to come back seasonal, but like everything its never certain until they are actually flying it.

Right on.




The 763D's (non-ER versions) could do California-Hawaii I believe, so should they reinstate the routes - it may be with this or the new 757s.

As for CVG, this is another kick in the stomach. Just hurts seeing more and more mainline capacity cut from CVG. Make no mistake, DCI would run CVG-HNL on a CRJ if they could, but they can't. We may again look and cringe at DL mainline at CVG, excluding DL hubs and focus cities, domestic DL mainline only has the following limited service from CVG bi-directionally mainline once HNL is gone:

Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (Reagan), Columbus, Chicago (O'Hare not really bidirectionally even, but I'll count it) Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, Denver, Portland, Albuquerque, Fort Myers, Santa Ana, Seattle, Tampa, and Hartford.

That is 17 cities plus the given ATL/SLC/JFK as mainline to hubs; MCO/BOS/LAX focus cities.
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:48 am

I would think that all HNL routes (except from ATL) will use the domestic 767-300s. The ex-TWA 757s may be used on some OGG and KOA services, but it will be too small for HNL routes. However, the main reason why Delta is acquring the ex-TWA 757s is for shorter third-tier transatlantc flights. The ex-TWA 757s are slated to get 16 BusinessElite seats.
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
Well technically not ferried, they are revenue flights, but yes, the route started in ATL and went ATL-SFO-HNL-SFO-ATL;

It used to run SLC-SFO-HNL-SFO-SLC, and that was debatable on being better than through ATL. ATL can always take more seats/capacity on DL.
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764flyer
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:51 am

True the widebodys seem to be of better use to DL elsewhere, but that raises the question about when the etops 757s will be ready. And if all THOSE go to europe too, I guess service on DL to the islands will stay pretty limited. Just a shame considering DL used to have 4 dailys from LAX and 1 each from SAN and SFO to HNL.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 1):
That 764 would make more money flying internationally. Hawaii isn't as high-yielding as transatlantic.

Not necessarily, although in this case the DL764 SFO/HNL service was probably utilization flying that would have otherwise just sat in SFO, so the profitability bar is greatly lowered. That said, I'm sure the 764 would be better used on any of the top three European markets that have recently lost 777 service than on a West Coast/Hawaii service with little feed and lots of competition.
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764flyer
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:56 am

"I would think that all HNL routes (except from ATL) will use the domestic 767-300s"

SLC-HNL is still scheduled to be a 764 for the foreseeable future, but its full EVERY day and there are no cheapo fares on that route.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:58 am

Hopefully just a realignment of Hawaiian service....last time that they "took" the flight away, they lost a bit of FF base in the Bay Area, as Hawaii is one place the FF's want to redeem their mileage. As the sked stand now, the aircraft is still showing a 764 for the fall, but sits overnite in SFO, instead of continuing to HNL. A bit of waste as their are several 767 overnite aircraft, all returning to ATL the next morning.

There are many possibilities that they could do with the numerous overnite aircraft, but the unknowns are available flight crews and aircraft maintenance checks.
 
764flyer
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:58 am

"The ex-TWA 757s may be used on some OGG and KOA services, but it will be too small for HNL routes."

Dont UA, AA, NW, ATA and probably a few others use 757s for LAX-HNL service?
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
EDIT to add: Now I see the flight was profitable after all, but the overall economics of having one plane based in SFO for only this flight was probably the main reason for the route to be terminated.

It wasn't based in SFO, but moved through the system at HNL and to ATL. The problem also is that in order to get to SFO, the planes had to go ATL-SFO, which required even more aircraft time. By cutting this route, they not only can use the aircraft for time that the plane would have been flying SFO-HNL, but also the time for ATL-SFO. That's more than one day right there.

Overall I think DL realized they may have gone a little overboard in their expansion to Hawaii. I think they kind of got caught up in their drive to add more "long-haul" flights, but forgot that while Hawaii was just as far as Europe, the yields were much lower (especially given the relative lack of business travel). SLC-KOA and ATL-OGG were the first casualties, and now SFO-HNL. Some speculate that LAX-HNL and SLC-HNL/OGG might be DL's only Hawaii operations if aircraft needs become more desperate. Most people going to Hawaii are leisure travellers, many going through package deals - an extra stop in LAX probably won't be too big of a deal.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 20):
Hopefully just a realignment of Hawaiian service....last time that they "took" the flight away, they lost a bit of FF base in the Bay Area, as Hawaii is one place the FF's want to redeem their mileage. As the sked stand now, the aircraft is still showing a 764 for the fall, but sits overnite in SFO, instead of continuing to HNL.

I was thinking the same thing about the aircraft just sitting there, but I just checked the sched and fl# 629 is being changed to a 757 ATL-SFO for the fall.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
The ex-TWA 757s are slated to get 16 BusinessElite seats.

Do you know if that will be ALL the ex-TWA 757s? I noted they have a JFK-SNN loaded in the sched for the fall that is sold as all coach now and shows 24 seats in usual domestic f/c config.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 23):
I was thinking the same thing about the aircraft just sitting there, but I just checked the sched and fl# 629 is being changed to a 757 ATL-SFO for the fall.

Maybe someday it will become an "etops" 757, and continue across the pond...there are, however there should still be two 767-300 overniters unless they've changed those out as well.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
So basically, it was always ferried to SFO as a revenue flight from ATL and back, right? Sounds reasonable, since that way the plane can make money even when it's "just" being ferried to another location.

The flight is actually a direct flight from ATL-HNL, with a stop in SFO. It operates as DL629.
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CV880
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 23):
was thinking the same thing about the aircraft just sitting there, but I just checked the sched and fl# 629 is being changed to a 757 ATL-SFO for the fall.

Just checked the skeds again, and beginning Nov17 thru the end of the year, flight 629 is showing a 764 again.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 11):
As smart as DL has been with their network moves as of late, it seems weird they would completely drop the ball on Hawaii. Anyone have any word on if (or when) the ex-TWA 757s will be used to Hawaii?

Didn't Jim Whitehurst mention the AA757s will be JFK based?
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
Some of the flights to the outer islands haven't been able to hold their own as of late. With the exception of SLC-HNL on a non-international 763, its possible that all other Hawaii flights from the West Coast will be 757's out of LAX.

That will come eventually as well. The former TWA 752s will start from JFK-Europe first until they can get back up to ETOPs-180 service which is required for service to Hawaii from the west coast of North America. SLC-HNL isn't safe however despite the loads it gets. SLC has not been the great Hawaii gateway hub DL planners have envisioned, and quite honestly I think by winter all Hawaii flights on DL just might end up coming out of LAX, even though the non-ER 763 SLC-HNL might survive. SLC does not have the O&D numbers to the islands that DEN, PHX or even LAS can provide as well as the overall market size these other three can give a carrier. The biggest network planning mistake that has cost DL market share to Hawaii has been to make SLC their gateway.

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 17):
Just a shame considering DL used to have 4 dailys from LAX and 1 each from SAN and SFO to HNL.

The California cities do better as far as yields go than SLC flights to the islands despite the pricing.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 22):
Overall I think DL realized they may have gone a little overboard in their expansion to Hawaii. I think they kind of got caught up in their drive to add more "long-haul" flights, but forgot that while Hawaii was just as far as Europe, the yields were much lower (especially given the relative lack of business travel). SLC-KOA and ATL-OGG were the first casualties, and now SFO-HNL. Some speculate that LAX-HNL and SLC-HNL/OGG might be DL's only Hawaii operations if aircraft needs become more desperate. Most people going to Hawaii are leisure travellers, many going through package deals - an extra stop in LAX probably won't be too big of a deal.

If I were making a business oriented decision I would find a way to keep California-Hawaii service on DL and axe any and all SLC flights. Despite the SLC-HNL loads, THEY DON'T MAKE ANY $$$$!

[Edited 2007-06-07 00:21:33]
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764flyer
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 27):
Just checked the skeds again, and beginning Nov17 thru the end of the year, flight 629 is showing a 764 again.

Wow, that means a 764 will be sitting on the ground for 15 hours every day. If that stands, I take back the nice comment I made earlier about DLs smart network ops. And thanks for doing the research CV880
 
CV880
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:30 am

They seem to be changing the skeds a bit more frequently these days as they fine tune it, so those end of the year skeds may change again...
 
764flyer
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 29):
If I were making a business oriented decision I would find a way to keep California-Hawaii service on DL and axe any and all SLC flights. Despite the SLC-HNL loads, THEY DON'T MAKE ANY $$$$!

Works for me. A few years ago you'll recall that there were about 3 direct flights to HNL orginating from SLC going through either LAX or SFO. Makes sense to go back in that direction, especially with DLs new focus on LAX.
 
HnlBoi
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 32):

I totally remember when DL had these flights going through LAX, and SFO. They had Flight 1579 that went SLC-LAX-HNL..and it tured and went back to SLC as a redeye as 1852. I belive they had another one that went SAN-LAX-HNL. Not sure though. Back then the SAN market was under-served.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 14):
As for CVG, this is another kick in the stomach. Just hurts seeing more and more mainline capacity cut from CVG. Make no mistake, DCI would run CVG-HNL on a CRJ if they could, but they can't. We may again look and cringe at DL mainline at CVG, excluding DL hubs and focus cities, domestic DL mainline only has the following limited service from CVG bi-directionally mainline once HNL is gone:

Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (Reagan), Columbus, Chicago (O'Hare not really bidirectionally even, but I'll count it) Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, Denver, Portland, Albuquerque, Fort Myers, Santa Ana, Seattle, Tampa, and Hartford.

That is 17 cities plus the given ATL/SLC/JFK as mainline to hubs; MCO/BOS/LAX focus cities.

I think I heard PHL, CMH, ORD and PIT are also losing mainline. So that would mean only 19 cities from CVG will be mainline, plus international. Despite international from CVG being profitable, I wouldn't be surprised if CVG-LGW gets cut to a 757 to free up another 763 for use out of ATL. With the continued reduction of mainline, the connecting traffic could easily be moved to ATL or JFK (where not talking many seats) and the range of the 757 ETOPS can easily do CVG-LGW.
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 34):
I wouldn't be surprised if CVG-LGW gets cut to a 757 to free up another 763 for use out of ATL. With the continued reduction of mainline, the connecting traffic could easily be moved to ATL or JFK (where not talking many seats) and the range of the 757 ETOPS can easily do CVG-LGW.

This one would really be pushing the envelope however. I think you'll see a 763ER stay on CVG-LGW. That said however, I don't see CVG gaining an LHR slot as being discussed in an entirely different thread. CVG does have good connectivity via LAX as does SLC, and I think LAX is a much better airport to jump off to Hawaii from. SLC as well as CVG can perhaps have Hawaii flights originate making the stop in LAX. This would be better network resourcing than the current emphasis on SLC as the Hawaii gateway.
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 35):
and I think LAX is a much better airport to jump off to Hawaii from

I agree. But have you heard anything "official" on this or is it just rumors?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 36):
I agree. But have you heard anything "official" on this or is it just rumors?

It is mostly speculative at this point. But what I'm hearing from my DL employee contacts is they aren't happy with any SLC-Hawaii.
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PGNCS
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 30):
Wow, that means a 764 will be sitting on the ground for 15 hours every day. If that stands, I take back the nice comment I made earlier about DLs smart network ops.

I think you definitely won't have to take back your comment.
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:02 am

I believe CVG-FCO is currently operated by a 764. A poster had mentioned that only HNL gets the bird.
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:12 am

I hate this flight anyway. Who wants to get into Hawaii at night? Hotels there are expensive!
 
ha763
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting 764flyer (Reply 21):
Dont UA, AA, NW, ATA and probably a few others use 757s for LAX-HNL service?

UA and AA went for frequency on HNL-LAX. AA has 4 flights between HNL and LAX. 3 are 757s and one a 767. UA has 5, 3 on 767s and 2 on 757s. NW doesn't use any other aircraft than the 757-300 on West Coast flights. TZ uses 737-800s HNL-LAX. Other than UA, AA, and NW, no other airline uses the 757 for regular scheduled HNL-LAX service.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:39 am

Does DL use a different seating configuration for their Hawaii operations or is it a standard domestic or international seating config?
 
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 42):
Does DL use a different seating configuration for their Hawaii operations or is it a standard domestic or international seating config?

It is a standard domestic seating configuration. However, the ex-TWA 757s are slated to get BusinessElite seats and will mostly be used on shorter third-tier transaltantic destinations, but may be used on OGG and KOA services from LAX. After Delta converts all 767-400s to international, there will be no more domestic aircraft that can handle the ATL-HNL route, which means that route may keep its 767-400 service even in international configuration. I don't see CVG-HNL lasting much longer.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
764flyer
Topic Author
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 42):
Does DL use a different seating configuration for their Hawaii operations or is it a standard domestic or international seating config?

Standard domestic. 764 is 36F/249Y and 763 is 24/226
 
aq737
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:10 am

I don't think DL's int'l 764 non-stop from ATL-HNL will be much of a problem seeing as CO has been running 2x IAH-HNL, 1x IAH-OGG?, 1x EWR-HNL, and 1x LAX-HNL with their 767-400ER configurations. Yes, some flights operate on the "Pacific" configuration, but all plans have the samel 2-1-2 BusinessFirst seats. DL's "international" 2-2-2- BusinessElite seats would still be less that what CO offers. Furthermore, AA's 1x ORD-HNL, 2x DFW-HNL, 1x SFO-HNL (seasonal with 752), 1x LAX-HNL, 1x DFW-OGG flights also operate with "international" 767-300ERs in the "international" configuration. DL will keep ATL-HNL with a 764 despite its international configuration. In fact, it may attract more premium customers seeing as they will now compete with other "international" seating products to Hawaii. (They don't need to offer BizElite service, AA offers a little enhanced domestic first service on most flights on 763).

DL's pitiful 764 "first class" with 39" pitch and no leg rests hasn't been close to the product of many other carriers, hence, ATL-HNL is here to stay regardless of configuration.
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:24 am

It was my understanding that CVG-HNL has and was always a seasonal flight from the start. Is DL still doing transatlantic service???

chuck
 
764flyer
Topic Author
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting AQ737 (Reply 45):

DL's pitiful 764 "first class" with 39" pitch and no leg rests hasn't been close to the product of many other carriers, hence, ATL-HNL is here to stay regardless of configuration.

Agreed...it's actually the worst first class configuration delta has EXCEPT for the aircraft they just put into Hawaii service from LAX, the 763. At least the 764 has in seat video though...on the 763, we'll just be twiddling our thumbs and wishing we'd brought a laptop with dvd. Flew an AA 767 with their biz class and what a different product...amazing they can charge the same price.
 
SESGDL
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 46):
It was my understanding that CVG-HNL has and was always a seasonal flight from the start. Is DL still doing transatlantic service???

From CVG? Yes, to LGW, CDG, FRA, and AMS and FCO seasonally.

As for DL at Hawaii, all indications show that DL will run SLC-HNL and ATL-HNL, and all other routes from LAX. Currently there will be twice daily LAX-HNL with domestic 763s, LAX-OGG with a domestic 763, and in the future service from LAX-KOA and possibly LIH, likely with 757s.

Jeremy
 
787EWR
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RE: DL Stopping SFO - HNL Service

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting 764flyer (Thread starter):
see that DL will be stopping sfo-hnl service Sept 1. They've had this service for more than a decade now and checking recent loads it is full or near full every day. Anyone know what the thinking was in stopping this route or know if they were actually losing money? Granted HNL is leisure and low yield, but seems hard to lose money on a full 767-400.
Stopping cvg-hnl service at the same time probably makes sense because that flight seems to have pretty light loads but surprised with sfo.

LAX is their new focus. Financially, it is a smart move. ATL, CVG, JFK & SFO(if Necessary) all connecting in LAX and then on to HNL. Instead of trying to fill a 767, maybe they will try a 777 to HNL.

Also, pending approval, I would imagine they may try LAX-HNL-SYD.

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