dallasnewark
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:16 am

http://www.gazeta.ru/news/business/2007/06/07/n_1078321.shtml - the link is in Russian.

Here's an excerpt of the rough translation of the article:

This upcoming Saturday, June 9th Boeing and Aeroflot would renew the contract that was blocked by the president's administration in 2006. The deal would amount to roughly 2 billion USD.
Boeing would also help the Russian avaiton with the SUKHOI SUPERJET development.

The news would be announced at roughly 3pm moscow time by Boeing's VP Scott Carson and General Director of Aeroflot Sergei Ivanov

[Edited 2007-06-07 01:18:46]

[Edited 2007-06-07 01:19:13]
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
bringiton
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Thread starter):
The deal would amount to roughly2 million USD.

I know getting the main russian carrier is a strategic win for boeing , but do they have to drop prices by so much ???

[Edited 2007-06-07 01:19:58]
 
dallasnewark
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 1):
I know getting the main russian carrier is a strategic win for boeing , but do they have to drop prices by som Darn much ???

Sorry, changed it to 2 bln, was in a rush trying to translate it
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:24 am

I guess I speak for all when I say Ill believe it when I see it.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9143
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:26 am

Who is running Aeroflot these days? John Kerry Big grin
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:27 am

LMAO, I don't believe it. The day that I will actually believe that SU is buying the 787 is the day they actually fly revenue mile 1 with it. Till then it ain't happening, IMO.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
dallasnewark
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:28 am

Does it mean the A350 order is going down the tubes now
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3673
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:30 am

Was the deposit by a Russian private firm for the 787 ever returned to Boeing?


Who is running Aeroflot these days? John Kerry

That's so 2004. More like Mitt Romney these days.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9267
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 7):
Does it mean the A350 order is going down the tubes now

It wouldn't be welcome news for the A350 program **IF** this is true. Call me skeptical, but I have serious reservations if this is actually true.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
dallasnewark
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
It wouldn't be welcome news for the A350 program **IF** this is true. Call me skeptical, but I have serious reservations if this is actually true.

We'll have to wait 3 and a half days to find out if this event would take place at the economic conference in St.Petersburgh
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 7):
Does it mean the A350 order is going down the tubes now

I don't think so. Putin will hold on to it for political purposes with the Euorpeans just like he'll make the 787 deal for political purposes with the US. Note that if this is true, it is coming before the summit between Putin and Bush. Practicing a little bit of Chinese style economic diplomacvy I guess. But if this is true then it'll put the 787 well over 600 orders when finalized.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
dallasnewark
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:47 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 12):
I don't think so. Putin will hold on to it for political purposes with the Euorpeans just like he'll make the 787 deal for political purposes with the US. Note that if this is true, it is coming before the summit between Putin and Bush. Practicing a little bit of Chinese style economic diplomacvy I guess. But if this is true then it'll put the 787 well over 600 orders when finalized.

Do they really need 22 787's and 22 A350's.

Where would they fly with all of this equipment
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
dougbr2006
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:44 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Thread starter):
Boeing would also help the Russian aviation with the SUKHOI SUPER JET development.

Aren't they already involved in the super jet, seems a bit late to be taking an interest now when they have already started assembly of the first prototype, if it is indeed the case.

As for the B787 well I suppose we will have to wait until Saturday. Is the site that started the news reliable, its surprising that it hasn't come up on Reuters, etc. Someone with more credibility. Only two weeks ago Aeroflot stated that the Airbus deal was almost concrete. With the relationship between Bush and Putin not exactly at its best at the moment it would seem strange for Putin to give into a Boeing order at this time.
 
dallasnewark
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting Dougbr2006 (Reply 14):
Aren't they already involved in the super jet, seems a bit late to be taking an interest now when they have already started assembly of the first prototype, if it is indeed the case.

I think we need some of our Russian members translate it a bit better.

Re-reading it again, Boeing would provide some maintenance help and the creation of the Pilot Tranining Center
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13645
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 12):
I don't think so. Putin will hold on to it for political purposes with the Euorpeans just like he'll make the 787 deal for political purposes with the US. Note that if this is true, it is coming before the summit between Putin and Bush.

So you're suggesting SU will buy both 787 and A350? If yes, then it does sound indeed like a political decision outside the scope of the people who are actually involved in the daily operations of SU. With other airlines, I'd say that in their cases they intend to use both 787 and A350 to complement each other in flight operations, but the possible reasonin of a dual Airbus and Boeing order from SU would probably crush that argument.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 699
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
If yes, then it does sound indeed like a political decision outside the scope of the people who are actually involved in the daily operations of SU.

I highly doubt its political. Putin is on a rant with the USA right now dealing with weapons.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
ScottB
Posts: 6687
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 13):
Do they really need 22 787's and 22 A350's.

Where would they fly with all of this equipment

If the Russian economy were to grow the way it ought to grow (i.e., to EU per capita GDP levels) and build a healthy middle class, they'd probably need at least 50 or 100 of each in 20 years.

Quoting Dougbr2006 (Reply 14):
As for the B787 well I suppose we will have to wait until Saturday. Is the site that started the news reliable, its surprising that it hasn't come up on Reuters, etc. Someone with more credibility. Only two weeks ago Aeroflot stated that the Airbus deal was almost concrete. With the relationship between Bush and Putin not exactly at its best at the moment it would seem strange for Putin to give into a Boeing order at this time.

I'll believe this order when I see the 787's in SU colors taking off from SVO. But honestly, I'm not sure I understand the saber-rattling from Putin right now unless it's essentially for domestic consumption by the hardliners who still long for the days of the Soviet Empire.
 
sandrozrh
Posts: 2419
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 4):
I guess I speak for all when I say Ill believe it when I see it.

For almost everyone, except for the few diehard boeing cheerleaders who'd post exactly that in the Aeroflot A350 order thread, but obviousely not in here Big grin
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26505
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 8):
Was the deposit by a Russian private firm for the 787 ever returned to Boeing?

Yes it was. Supposedly, at that time SU lost their delivery slot allocations, but if this order goes through, it will be interesting to see if Boeing held on to them for them, anyway...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
...SU will buy both 787 and A350? If yes, then it does sound indeed like a political decision outside the scope of the people who are actually involved in the daily operations of SU.

There was speculation that SU would get 22 of each, but when the 787 slot deposits were returned and Putin then went forward with the A350 commitment, the talk of a split, equal order dropped off.

If the deal goes through, it will be interesting to see what the estimated discount is. The original deal was at 31%, but the A350 discount is estimated at 53% so I wonder if that will affect the 787 negotiations...

[Edited 2007-06-07 02:24:05]
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
So you're suggesting SU will buy both 787 and A350? If yes, then it does sound indeed like a political decision outside the scope of the people who are actually involved in the daily operations of SU. With other airlines, I'd say that in their cases they intend to use both 787 and A350 to complement each other in flight operations, but the possible reasonin of a dual Airbus and Boeing order from SU would probably crush that argument.

I think both orders are political and they will buy both of them. Where do they intend to fly all those planes...god only knows uless they want to open a ton of point to point routes from major Russian cities to international destinations in Africa, Western Hemisphere and Asia.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26505
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 21):
Where do they intend to fly all those planes...god only knows uless they want to open a ton of point to point routes fro

SU has a shed-load of Tupolevs and Illyushins that can be shown the door...
 
hjulicher
Posts: 698
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:26 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:02 am

Here is my best translation of the article, and the web domain does seem to signify some reliability. Gazeta.ru is well known across Russia, and Kommersant is a respected news agency.

"At the St. Petersburg forum, Aeroflot plans to buy 22 Boeing 787's.

On Saturday, at the 11th annual St. Petersburg Economic Forum, Aeroflot plans to re-bring up a contract that was practically blocked by the government last year, for 22 Boeing 787's. As it was written last Thursday in the 'Kommersant" newspaper, in exchange for the 2billion dollar order, Boeing will help Sukhoi move foward with their regional aircraft, the Sukhoi Superjet.

According to an insider of the paper, who is familiar with the planning of events at the forum, on Saturday, Boeing and the United Aircraftbuilders Corp, will agree upon a longterm cooperation agreement. According to the insider, vice prime-minister Sergei Ivanov, vice president of Boeing Scott Carson, general director of Aeroflot Valery Okulov, President of the UAC Alexei Federov, and general manager of Sukhoi Corp, Mikhail Pogacyan, will announced their palns between 2:30 and 3:00pm

They will reveal in detail two documents that they are agreeing upon. First and foremost, the contract between Boeing and Aeroflot. The second, a protocol of intention between Sukhoi and Boeing. The protocol envisages, that Boeing, comes out as the still only consultant that is still actively pushing for the Sukhoi SSJ project in terms of marketing, planning, building and will deepen its relationship with Sukhoi. The discussion will be about how Boeing will help Sukhoi in post-sale support and service of the plane as well as the creation of a training center for personnel."

I know this a bit rough, but hopefully it will be clearer.
Detroit Moves the World!
LH 442
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8258
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):

It wouldn't be welcome news for the A350 program **IF** this is true. Call me skeptical, but I have serious reservations if this is actually true.

Agree, but considering how much politics is involved, I find it difficult to judge the merits of the A350 based on a Russian order.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13645
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 21):
I think both orders are political and they will buy both of them. Where do they intend to fly all those planes...god only knows uless they want to open a ton of point to point routes from major Russian cities to international destinations in Africa, Western Hemisphere and Asia.

Or, if they were allowed, they could lease those planes out to other carriers and make some more money in the process.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
SU has a shed-load of Tupolevs and Illyushins that can be shown the door...

AFAIK, the IL-96 will stay at SU (didn't they make a follow-on order for 6 more IL-96s 2 years ago?). However, both 787 and A350 are unlikely to replace the TU-154s that will eventually need to be replaced. It wouldn't really make sense to replace a narrowbody with a widebody on a 1 to 1 basis.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26505
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 25):
Or, if they were allowed, they could lease those planes out to other carriers and make some more money in the process.

If SU still gets their 787s early, that scenario might earn them a nice piles of rubles...
 
tak
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:41 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:22 am

She loves me...she loves me not...she loves me...she loves me not...

on again...off again...on again... off again

I will believe it when I see it as well... We will see. Curious does anyone know if the article re-affirms the LOI for the XWB by SU. I do believe that politics is at play here. We shall see. I think this year will be an interesting air show...  SmileCiao
 
dallasnewark
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 23):
Here is my best translation of the article, and the web domain does seem to signify some reliability. Gazeta.ru is well known across Russia, and Kommersant is a respected news agency.

Thanks. You did a much better job than me translating the article
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 19):
For almost everyone, except for the few diehard boeing cheerleaders who'd post exactly that in the Aeroflot A350 order thread, but obviousely not in here

Why is it Boeing Fans are always accused of being chereleaders and incapable of making informed opinions? No one is saying the A350 order is dead or that this order is even confirmed, so i think its safe to say the "Boeing Chereleaders" are not geting over excited just yet.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
777law
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:16 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 17):
I highly doubt its political. Putin is on a rant with the USA right now dealing with weapons.

I think this order is ENTIRELY political. I have no doubt the Kremlin / Putin approved the deal before it was announced. Putin's recent anti-US rants are exactly the reason the deal was announced now -- the order is likely something of an olive branch to the US, an attempt to turn down the diplomatic heat a bit. The timing of this order is not coincidental -- it has everything to do with Russia's relations with the US right now.
If its not a Boeing I ain't going
 
iL62M
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:49 pm

Quoting 777law (Reply 30):
I think this order is ENTIRELY political

You guys really underestimate others. That is quite annoying thing. There are really no stupid ones at the head of Russian state. Dont you think so? Why are you playing with all that missile thing? How does it connect with SU orders?

My personal thought is that if the planned early delivery of 787s will happen, THAT will explain a lot. SU needs planes like 787 or 350 in their fleet. And needs them as soon as possible. So that is the answer. 787s till 2010 and 350s after 2014 (or what was the year?). Quite normal.

Yes it's been a great problem for SU to have state involving it in political games and etc. But it's all the same everywhere. With less or more exceptions.
 
Danny
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:56 pm

Yeah sure. Few days after Putin threatened nuclear war over American missile program.

I'll believe it when I see one flying in Aeroflot colors.


Btw 2 billion for 22 frames gives just 90 million per frame. Seems like Boeing will do whatever it takes it steal the order from Airbus.

[Edited 2007-06-07 11:03:45]
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:11 pm

The never-ending Aeroflot A350/787 story. I can't believe anything anymore, I'll believe when I see the plane in their colours at SVO.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
iL62M
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:18 pm

How can this be neverending story if SU stated (not once) that it is looking to buy 22 + 22 (787s+350s)?
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting IL62M (Reply 34):
How can this be neverending story if SU stated (not once) that it is looking to buy 22 + 22 (787s+350s)?

Because most people here would expect them to have only one type.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:52 pm

SU's Boeing or Airbus order has me completely confused, which is it?
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:00 pm

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 1):
Quoting Dallasnewark (Thread starter):
The deal would amount to roughly2 million USD.

I know getting the main russian carrier is a strategic win for boeing , but do they have to drop prices by so much ???

Even at 2 billion, that is less than 100 million per copy...seems a little low
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 33):
The never-ending Aeroflot A350/787 story. I can't believe anything anymore, I'll believe when I see the plane in their colours at SVO.

 checkmark 

Dealing with these people must drive the sales people at both Airbus and Boeing absolutely nuts.  boggled 

Quoting IL62M (Reply 34):
How can this be neverending story if SU stated (not once) that it is looking to buy 22 + 22 (787s+350s)?

...because that is a rather strange way to do business that reeks of political opportunism and manipulation.

SU should either buy some frikkin airplanes or STFU. I'm reasonably certain that both Boeing and Airbus have better things to do than deal with these clowns and their little political games.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
EI321
Posts: 4998
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:03 pm

I have said several times since that this could likely happen. After stating that they intended to order 22 A350s and 22 787s, did everybody really think that the airline was halving its plans because Putin decided he would give the American side a metaphorical slap on the wrist, or that SU was instead going to order 44 A350s? There may have been political potato throwing between Moscow, the EU and Washington but that does not mean that Boeing or Airbus should be the victims.

So much for the months of A350 bashing.

I hope the Aeroflot are only buying A350s because they are not allowed buy 787s crowd missed breakfast because they will have a lot of words to eat is this comes true.

[Edited 2007-06-07 12:11:21]
 
bringiton
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:15 pm

Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 37):
Even at 2 billion, that is less than 100 million per copy...seems a little low

Well there was a report in the timesonline that boeing were offering the 787-8 for around 102 million a peice -

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ors/engineering/article1680645.ece


So if we take it that the 22 aircraft are all 787-8's and the price being offered to buyers is 102 million , then it wouldnt be too much to expect boeing to give away one free aircraft out of a 22 aircraft deal to win over a strategic order in russia such as that of aeroflot . But we would have to wait and see once this is firmed up ( if ever) to see what the entire cost of the deal is .
 
EI321
Posts: 4998
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:28 pm

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 40):
But we would have to wait and see once this is firmed up ( if ever) to see what the entire cost of the deal is .

Given Aeroflots legendary reputation for information leaks like this, I hope we also get to see what price they will pay for the A350s.

Quoting Danny (Reply 32):
Yeah sure. Few days after Putin threatened nuclear war over American missile program.

What he did was say he might aim missiles at the European sites if the plan goes ahead. The States, with the agreement of Poland and Czech Rep, want to use an old soviet Missile site for this proposed facility. Putin should announce a similar agreement to locate Russian missiles on Cuba if he wants to set Bush straight. The EU should also act to Veto it, although at this stage Im not clear on what options are open to the other member states.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:11 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 36):
SU's Boeing or Airbus order has me completely confused,

Not just you.

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 36):
which is it?

Currently it looks like: 22 of each.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 38):
Dealing with these people must drive the sales people at both Airbus and Boeing absolutely nuts. boggled

Not necessarily, they are used to that game.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:27 pm

The discounts big, I get around 3.366 billion assuming the 22 aircraft are 787-8 aircraft (assuming price of 153 million USD).

If they are selling them at 2 billion, then the discount is around 40.6%.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
Cruiser
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:42 pm

Interesting development...perhaps this article has some truth to it! RE: AeroFlot Claims They Would Rather Buy Boeing 787 (by ZBA320 May 30 2007 in Civil Aviation)

I will wait to see a signed order however. Still not a true win in my eyes given the amount of political influence. I can still see an A350 order too.

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
EI321
Posts: 4998
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 44):
Interesting development...perhaps this article has some truth to it!

I will believe it when Aeroflot cancels their A350s and orders 44 787s. That little article has no sources at all, is highly spurious, and incredibly vague.

Quote:

Boeing Co. intends to launch first B787 in 2008; its current portfolio includes orders for 584 planes made by 45 companies.
Russia’s leading airlines, Aeroflot, also expressed desire to acquire Dreamliners, but its principal holder – the government – has finally preferred Airbus A350s to B787s.

Dreamliner is able to carry 200 passengers to 300 passengers for 6,500km to 16,000km. It consumes 20 percent less of fuel than the similar aircraft, but its load capacity is 45 percent higher than that of the rivals.
 
NADC10Fan
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:03 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:04 pm

Here's the part that interests me the most:

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 23):
The second, a protocol of intention between Sukhoi and Boeing. The protocol envisages, that Boeing, comes out as the still only consultant that is still actively pushing for the Sukhoi SSJ project in terms of marketing, planning, building and will deepen its relationship with Sukhoi. The discussion will be about how Boeing will help Sukhoi in post-sale support and service of the plane as well as the creation of a training center for personnel."

"Post-sale support and service of the plane as well as the creation of a training center for personnel" ... This sounds to me as though they are contemplating setting such programs outside of Russia, to bring the SSJ to the world as whole. Perhaps this paves the way to a generally distributed Russian-manufactured commercial airliner to finally and truly compete Boeing, Airbus and others? Or rather, I should say, Embraer, Canadair and so on ... since I believe the SSJ is actually an RJ?

Believing that competition is a good thing, I'd love to see that aircraft flying over here!
TANSTAAFL!
 
PEET7G
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 43):
The discounts big, I get around 3.366 billion assuming the 22 aircraft are 787-8 aircraft (assuming price of 153 million USD).

If they are selling them at 2 billion, then the discount is around 40.6%.

I think the 2 billion is only a guess, or a leak or bla-bla. Like always in deals like this... any discussion of Boeing giving away 787s is a nonsense... what on earth would make you give away a product that you have already sold waaay over break-even point? It is as mature as the claims that Airbus is giving away A330s... what for? The A330s and A320s are possibly the only product they make good money on. They could be given in the compensation packages, but after all that is also money they earn by not having to pay out...

So stop this bulling, any 787 Boeing sells or any A330 Airbus sells looks terribly good in their balance-sheet Big grin
Peet7G
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26505
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 30):
Btw 2 billion for 22 frames gives just 90 million per frame. Seems like Boeing will do whatever it takes it steal the order from Airbus.



Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 35):
Even at 2 billion, that is less than 100 million per copy...seems a little low

SU's original 22 frame 787 order was valued at $3.2 billion at list, a full $1.5 billion below the list of SU's 22 A350's. And yet SU is paying $200 million more for their A350s...

So Boeing is discounting 38% for their 787s vs. Airbus discounting 53% for their A350s.

And while a 38% discount is on the high end of 787 discounts for 2007 (CO's 37% is the current leader), all 787 orders this year have been discounted at least 31%.
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9673
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:49 pm

Great news if it's true! Can't wait till the 787 enters service!
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:50 pm

Fact is, because both the production of the composite fuselage barrels and the 'snap-together' assembly process are far less labour-intensive than traditional construction methods, the 787 will simply cost less to produce than previous airliners. Having two truly interchangeable engine types also helps, no doubt SU (like other customers, Qantas being the prime example) will be tendering the engines separately, putting the engine manufacturers into competition and thereby achieving further savings.


Quoting Stitch (Reply 47):
So Boeing is discounting 38% for their 787s vs. Airbus discounting 53% for their A350s.

I really don't envy Airbus. It is going to pay a high price for their lousy management completely failing to see the potential of ETOPs, the 787, and composite construction back in 2002, and putting all their resources into the A380 instead. It looks as if they are stuck with having to sell the A350 at cost, or even at a loss, for the foreseeable future.

[Edited 2007-06-07 14:51:41]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Marquis
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:35 am

RE: Aeroflot To Buy 22 Boeing 787's

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:01 pm

This is a without a doubt a completely politically motivated order. The Russian government couldn't gain their influence desired in Airbus' parent company EADS and therefore they will cancel the MOU for the A350XWB and go with the 787.

EDIT: Spelling mistake

[Edited 2007-06-07 15:08:50]
Riding the radials...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos