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columbia107
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MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:21 am

Delta's flight 606 from Bermuda to Atlanta last Tuesday afternoon blew an engine and dropped altitude. Nevertheless, the plane, a 737-800, which has 81 passengers on board, made a successful emergency landing after turning back to Bermuda.

Apparently, the aircraft had been in the air for some 25 minutes, when it first started to shudder. This was followed by loud vibration noises and the aircraft started dropping in altitude. Shortly thereafter, the pilot announced there was a problem and that they were turning back to Bermuda, which at the time was around 100 miles away. According to passengers on the aircraft, the return flight to Bermuda was made on just one engine "flying very, very low". The aircraft, which had 81 passengers on board, landed safely.

No-one was injured in the incident.
In God we trust
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:24 am

Good job it made it back.

Not many places to divert to from BDA !
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SLCUT2777
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 1):
Good job it made it back.

Not many places to divert to from BDA !

This is why we have something called ETOPs! Hawaii-west coast of North America is even more tricky! ETOPs-180 required on all a/c.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
797
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:48 am

Scary thing,

Reminds me of one of the missions available on the Flight Simulator X where you're flying over the pacific ocean and one engine goes out. There, you have to decide whether to stay on the same route to the assigned airport or divert to another one some 100 miles out. Then, suddenly another engine goes out and you have to glide!

How reliable can you get in these situations?

Quoting Columbia107 (Thread starter):
"flying very, very low".

If the aircraft was actually flying very low, then how would have they managed if they had lost another engine!?

Good they made it back safely.

Cheers.
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
BDABOY
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:07 am

I was told that a new engine and repair crew would arrive yesterday from Atlanta on a C-130. Instead, the only unusual arrival from Atlanta was a chartered An-12! I haven't found out if this was carrying the replacement parts, but it certainly was a treat to see it come in. Bummed I didn't have my camera wih me.
 
MDW22L31C
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:13 am

 
UN_B732
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:17 am

Why would they be down at 1500 for 10 minutes? Is that normal?
-A
What now?
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:00 am

I'm sure it would have made it back safely regardless of the situation, but it did sound like it was somewhat of a close call.

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 6):
Why would they be down at 1500 for 10 minutes? Is that normal?

I was wondering the same thing, why would they descend so much? Wouldn't it be safer to stay a little higher up and then descend as the airport got closer?
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting BDABOY (Reply 4):
the only unusual arrival from Atlanta was a chartered An-12! I haven't found out if this was carrying the replacement parts,

It was indeed.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting 797 (Reply 3):
If the aircraft was actually flying very low, then how would have they managed if they had lost another engine!?

They would have crashed. There are many situations in which your altitude won't matter if you lose both engines. If you lose all of your engines, the plane is coming down within a predictable area, and if your nearest landing strip isn't in that area, you crash.

You asked how reliable you can get in these situations, and the obvious and overwhelming answer is simple: extremely. Single-engine shutdowns on ETOPS flights are rare. Double-engine shutdowns are unheard of unless something else has occurred which caused the engines to flame out -- like running out of gas.

How many passenger miles must be flown with ETOPS before you are convinced that it is as safe as three or four engines?
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
vt977
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:27 am

Good that the plane landed safely and no one was hurt.....

On a lighter note...ETOPS : Engine Turns Or Passenger Swims

[Edited 2007-06-08 04:28:42]
A conclusion is what you reach when you get tired of thinking.
 
Flight209
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:51 am

At least the flight wasn't through the Bermuda Triangle ... or has that thing moved all of a sudden? Big grin
I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 7):
but it did sound like it was somewhat of a close call.

Um, no? A passenger is hardly qualified to make the judgment if the airplane is "very, very low." Especially over the Atlantic.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
Clipper136
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:32 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 12):
Um, no? A passenger is hardly qualified to make the judgment if the airplane is "very, very low." Especially over the Atlantic.

No a passenger isnt, but a passenger aircraft at 1500' 15 minutes before landing, with only one engine, when the only other landing strip is the ocean!!!!!!! I would call that VERY LOW!

Glad it ended safely. BDA has been very fortunate over the years.......a number of close calls......but all have landed safely.

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 11):
At least the flight wasn't through the Bermuda Triangle ... or has that thing moved all of a sudden?

Nope, its still there. The line goes direct from Bermuda to Miami (then to Puerto Rico and back to BDA) This flight was just outside of that area.
You can't beat the Experience.
 
cubastar
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:48 pm

Drama, Drama, Drama People! They were at 1500 ft. 9 minutes before touchdown. Traffic pattern? Approach? A downwind approach and turn to final can take up those 9 minutes. Those planes and the pilots that fly them are trained for such events. ETOPS aircraft can fly hours on one engine. NOT a big deal! Unless it was ON FIRE, not a big deal!
 
robsawatsky
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 13):
No a passenger isnt, but a passenger aircraft at 1500' 15 minutes before landing, with only one engine, when the only other landing strip is the ocean!!!!!!! I would call that VERY LOW!

Would it have made any difference if it was 3000' or 500'? The great thing about the ocean is that it is all at sea level. No pesky mountains to get in the way.
 Big grin
 
UAXDXer
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
This is why we have something called ETOPs!

In order to be an ETOPS flight you have to be more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport. Between the mainland US and BDA you are not more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport in a B738.
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
artsyman
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:43 pm

What was the weather like at the time. Maybe the ceiling, winds, or weather was at such a level that 1500 was the best altitude
 
dl757md
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:47 pm

Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 16):
In order to be an ETOPS flight you have to be more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport. Between the mainland US and BDA you are not more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport in a B738.

 checkmark 

Additionally all DL 738s are not ETOPS. Just clarifying that ETOPS is completely irrelevent to the subject of this thread

DL757Md
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 13):
No a passenger isnt, but a passenger aircraft at 1500' 15 minutes before landing, with only one engine, when the only other landing strip is the ocean!!!!!!! I would call that VERY LOW!

I wouldn't. I guarantee you it wasn't because of any performance problem, nor was it negligence on anyone's part. They had a sick engine, they shut it down to prevent further damage, returned to the airport, and landed. You're being sensationalistic.

This whole thing is much ado about nothing.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
UAXDXer
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 19):
This whole thing is much ado about nothing.

I don't know if I would go that far. I promise you if a captain shuts down an engine he will be declaring an emergency and filling out reports to the company and FAA because of said emergency. This is more of a "This is what we are trained to do" situation.
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
AirEMS
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting VT977 (Reply 10):
On a lighter note...ETOPS : Engine Turns Or Passenger Swims

Thats freeking hilarious!!


Now all joking aside that had to be a scary ride for the pax... Glad to hear all turned out well


-Carl
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:32 pm

AN-12 flights:

TWN9246 / TWN9247 - Avialeasing Aviation Company "Twinarrow"

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TWN9246

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TWN9247

Most likely one of these two birds, UK-12002 or UK-11418:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ted Oliveira
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Teemu Tuuri - FAP



[Edited 2007-06-08 14:38:56]
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
Arcrftlvr
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:24 am

Are the flightaware logs even that accurate?
 
luisca
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting 797 (Reply 3):
If the aircraft was actually flying very low, then how would have they managed if they had lost another engine!?

There has never been a case of dual independent engine failures, the only double engine failures are caused by eighter fuel starvation, ash, etc; but never have two engines failed for unrelated reasons.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting 797 (Reply 3):
How reliable can you get in these situations?

A statitic published years ago for modern turbofan engines gave the odds of a dual engine shut down at a 10,000,000,000,000 to 1 chance
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haggis79
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 25):
A statitic published years ago for modern turbofan engines gave the odds of a dual engine shut down at a 10,000,000,000,000 to 1 chance

well, but I think the statistical probability of hitting exactly that chance gets much higher in the very moment when the first engine fails.... the probability of the other engine then failing as well is exactly as high as the probability for one engine failing when sitting in a twin with both engines running.....  Wink
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
mpdpilot
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:36 am

All this talk about the aircraft flying so low. Does anyone know the service ceiling for a 737-800 on one engine it can't be that high and wouldnt the engine perform even better the lower they were.

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 26):
well, but I think the statistical probability of hitting exactly that chance gets much higher in the very moment when the first engine fails.... the probability of the other engine then failing as well is exactly as high as the probability for one engine failing when sitting in a twin with both engines running.....

the probability of the engine loss doesn't change at all throughout the situation (if the reason is isolated to the one engine). there is a probability of the one engine flame out and the probability of two engine flame outs is just the original number squared (assuming that you look at the two engines together). Assuming individual engines the probabilities are independant and are unchanged.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
haggis79
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 27):
the probability of the engine loss doesn't change at all throughout the situation (if the reason is isolated to the one engine). there is a probability of the one engine flame out and the probability of two engine flame outs is just the original number squared (assuming that you look at the two engines together). Assuming individual engines the probabilities are independant and are unchanged.

that's exactly what I meant... but now I'm actually not as sure anymore...

I think, if we look at both engines independently, i.e. excluding cases like low fuel, ash, etc.) it should be computed like this:

- Let's say the probability of a certain engine failing is x
- then the probability of the left engine failing is x, the probability of the right engine failing is x as well
- the probability of any one of the two failing is 2*x (we have two engines, both can fail independently with a probability of x)
- the probability of both of them failing is x*x=x^2
- given one engine fails, the probability of the other one failing as well remains x (as we look at both of them independently).

This means, the probability of the second engine failing when the first one has failed already is half as much as the probability of experiencing a single engine failure when flying in a twin (2*x vs. x). However, it is significantly larger than the probabillity of experiencing a double engine failure when both engines are running, provided x is sufficiently small (x vs. x^2)
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mpdpilot
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 28):

Now that I am sufficently confused I think you have it right.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
airtechy
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:05 am

More likely when you have four engines, but I remember several cases where engines have come apart and pranged another engine. I seem to remember one where parts flew under the plane and hit the cowling of the engine on the other side....but didn't kill it. They may have been on a tri-jet. Or pilots misdiagnosing the failure and shutting down the remainng good engine. Remember the British midlands crash.

I'm not sure you can totally apply independent failure rate theory.

Jim
 
corey07850
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 23):
Are the flightaware logs even that accurate?

No...
 
flydl2atl
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 28):
that's exactly what I meant... but now I'm actually not as sure anymore...

Your analysis looks correct to me. I think the key point is there are two probability scenarios.

Scenario 1: No engine problems ...the probability of an engine failure is 2x, and the probabibility of both engines failing is x^2.

Scenario 2: One engine doesn't work....the probability of the other engine failing (which at this point is the same as having both engines failing) is now simply x.

Once scenario2 has happened then the probabilities for scenario1 are not applicable.
 
haggis79
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Airtechie (Reply 29):
I'm not sure you can totally apply independent failure rate theory.

well, reality is certainly more complicated.... this was just a rough computation...

I'm also not certain how the probability of a single engine failing compares to the probability of a single or multiple engine failure due to ash, low fuel or something else that possibly affects more than one engine at a time....

Edited to correct quoting

[Edited 2007-06-08 19:22:54]
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
Jerald01
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:40 am

I think the probability of anyone making any sense of all the above-noted probabilities is about as good as the probability that the A380 will be seen landing on the local 3500-foot airport...... not too likely!

Anyway, when you are out over the ocean 100 miles from the nearest dry spot, you tend to think that it IS a "big deal" if you lose half of your propulsion power, no matter whether it is a 737, a catamaran, or if you are swimming toward said dry spot.  Yeah sure
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 22):
Most likely one of these two birds, UK-12002 or UK-11418:

It was UK-12002.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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comorin
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:05 am

I'd like to help out with the statistical analysis so far, as the all-important time element is missing:

1. The mechanical reliability of an engine is best expressed as Mean Time Between Failure. You can then estimate the probability of failure in any time interval. If the MTBF of an engine is 1 million hours, then the probability of an engine failing in a 2-hour flight is 1 in 500,000. As with all mechanical systems, this probability is skewed so that the probability is higher as the component ages ( an 'actuarial' effect).

2. Now the probability of the second engine failing is the same as the first one. However, what is the probability of the second engine failing the the same 2 hours of flight ? I think, as others have pointed out, it would be p1*p2, a very small number, if the events are unrelated. However, if you are on that particular flight, and have already experienced an engine-out, the probability of the second engine out is the same as when you took off - 1 in 500,000.

Hope this is useful - corrections welcome.
 
bimmerkid19
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:28 am

bermuda triangle have anything to do with this ?
 Wink
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movingtin
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:03 pm

12:44PM 32.33 -65.47 315 5700
12:45PM 32.32 -65.37 303 1500
12:46PM 32.30 -65.28 291 1500
12:47PM 32.28 -65.18 281 4700
12:48PM 32.27 -65.10 281 3800
12:49PM 32.27 -65.00 281 3200

taken from the other posters link http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D.../20070605/1607Z/TXKF/TXKF/tracklog

I cant believe no one has caught the problem with the log!! Obviously Flightaware's log is wrong. Unless someone has some proof showing that a 737-800 can climb at 3200 ft per min on a single engine?
 
Tornado82
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting Movingtin (Reply 38):
I cant believe no one has caught the problem with the log!! Obviously Flightaware's log is wrong.

Flightaware's logs are very often wrong on climbs/descents. Many times it show the plane going from say 11,000 to it's cruise (FL360 for argument's sake) back to say 14,000.
 
roseflyer
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting Cubastar (Reply 14):
Drama, Drama, Drama People! They were at 1500 ft. 9 minutes before touchdown. Traffic pattern? Approach? A downwind approach and turn to final can take up those 9 minutes. Those planes and the pilots that fly them are trained for such events.

That can be true, but that seems like an awfully long time to be at 1500ft. A 737 pattern to an airport like BDA wouldn't have it at 1500 ft that long. That's lower than a normal approach on downwind. AFAIK a 737 shouldn't be at 1500 ft in a normal pattern until final approach. Under 2000ft is rare before final landing clearance is given. This approach isn't normal. Obviously it was an emergency so all other traffic was cleared out of the area so the pilots could fly anyway that they felt was the best and safest, but it is certainly dramatic for a plane to be that low that long. Passengers would be getting scared. It might be normal under the conditions, but I can understand a bit of drama and concern is warranted after that. People are people and like getting worked up about things like this. It is the pilots and crews that need to not get overworried about things.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
MD88Captain
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:47 am

Flying low will burn fuel more quickly especially with some flaps out and allow you to avoid an overweight landing scenario. Just a thought.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 33):
I'm also not certain how the probability of a single engine failing compares to the probability of a single or multiple engine failure due to ash, low fuel or something else that possibly affects more than one engine at a time....

True, but I would think even under normal conditions the probability of the second engine failing increases after the first engine fails. My reasoning for this is that the single engine is now being utilized differently. It would have the added stress of providing the lift that was coming from both engines and compensating for the rudder which would be trimmed so the plane flies straight. This is not major, but does increase the probability of failure (even if just a little bit)...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
mohunk
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:15 am

IIRC, an Eastern Airlines L-1011 out of Miami lost all three engines on a flight out over the Atlantic. They turned around when the first one failed, and landed just before or after the third one did. Seems that seals (or something??) were left off of all three engines. Year??? 1980???? Do I have any of this correct?
 
PGNCS
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 40):
That can be true, but that seems like an awfully long time to be at 1500ft. A 737 pattern to an airport like BDA wouldn't have it at 1500 ft that long. That's lower than a normal approach on downwind.

Normal traffic pattern altitude for a jet on a visual approach is 1500 AGL. Since they were over the ocean, that's 1500'. I think there's likely something amiss in the Flightaware data, but regardless, 1500' isn't an abnormal VMC traffic pattern altitude.
 
wjcandee
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:55 pm

Quoting Mohunk (Reply 43):
IIRC, an Eastern Airlines L-1011 out of Miami lost all three engines on a flight out over the Atlantic. They turned around when the first one failed, and landed just before or after the third one did. Seems that seals (or something??) were left off of all three engines. Year??? 1980???? Do I have any of this correct?

sorta. Lost 3. Got 1 restarted while preparing to ditch. Landed MIA. Reason: metal chip detectors that screwed into oil line were usually supplied w/ o-ring mounted. 1 mech replaced all 3 with new ones from stockroom that didn't have rings, and oil leaked out,
 
71Zulu
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:55 pm

Actually, they shut down #2 at the first indication of low oil pressure, the other two failed and could not be restarted.

http://trijets.net/tristar/article/art10.html
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 45):
sorta. Lost 3. Got 1 restarted while preparing to ditch. Landed MIA. Reason: metal chip detectors that screwed into oil line were usually supplied w/ o-ring mounted. 1 mech replaced all 3 with new ones from stockroom that didn't have rings, and oil leaked out,

Thankfully one of the requirements for ETOPS is that each engine cannot be worked on by the same mechanic soley.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
dl757md
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 47):
Thankfully one of the requirements for ETOPS is that each engine cannot be worked on by the same mechanic soley.

That's not entirely true. The same mechanic can perform most tasks on both engines without any special considerations or extra steps. Even tasks with the potential to cause leaks such as checking/replacing the chip detectors can be performed on both engines by the same mechanic provided an idle leak check is performed and documented in the log book.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
CoolGuy
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:13 am

RE: MId-air Delta Plane Drama Off Bermuda

Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 28):
given one engine fails, the probability of the other one failing as well remains x (as we look at both of them independently).

I always wondered if the probability of a second engine failing per unit of time increases if the other one is not operational. For example, the other engine must run at a much higher N1. Would that change anything?

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