Quoting CaptainJon (Reply 53): So... since the majority of the planet has far more reasonable drinking laws than the US, how do US carriers handle drinking of 18-20's on international flights? I would assume US law no longer applies? The only time I flew international as a minor was with LY and I was served alcohol, though in Israel you need to be 18 to drink. Would international lounges restrict members to 18+'s then?

Thats a good question, and a very good point, I understand that US Federal Law should be enforced in any vessel flying or sailing under the American Flag, Then again I am not a lawyer, if anyone with a better understanding of this issue is kind enough to elaborate, I will appreciate it very much.

Quoting CaptainJon (Reply 53): So... since the majority of the planet has far more reasonable drinking laws than the US, how do US carriers handle drinking of 18-20's on international flights? I would assume US law no longer applies? The only time I flew international as a minor was with LY and I was served alcohol, though in Israel you need to be 18 to drink. Would international lounges restrict members to 18+'s then?

The airline will operate under the laws of the country in which it is registered. No US-registered airline will serve alcohol to anyone under the age of 21 on any of it's flights; doesn't matter if it's domestic or international (for example, NW will not serve alcohol on its beyond-Japan flights such as NRT-SIN to under-21s, irregardless of what the drinking age is in Japan and Singapore). I know on Delta at least (just because I am most familiar with them due to being on them 90% of the time), it says in the inflight magazine that alcohol is limited to those that are 21 years and above.

Quoting N844AA (Reply 52): About?

To begin....comparing airline club admission to war.

What does age have to do with service provided? When one purchases a specific type of service one is in turn entitled to the priveleges that are part of that service.

Perhaps you'll understand this comparison.... why permit the 20 year old to travel in a cabin where alcohol is being served but not permit this person to enter a lounge where alcohol is being served?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 28): Then you have not been to the WorldClubs very often. DTW is self serve

You are absolutely correct. I forgot about the ones in DTW. Those are the only WorldClubs I have been to personally and I had a brain freeze on that one.

Quoting Star_world (Reply 29): As well as the ones mentioned by Dtwclipper, the shared CO / NW lounge in ORD has a self-serve bar. There are some others too I'm sure.

Haven't been to that one. I didn't say it was a be all-end all thing but in the ones I have been to it was not self-service. I can state for certainty though that the President's Clubs in IAH are not self-serve.

Quoting JamesJimlb (Reply 44): Quoting KingAirMan (Thread starter): CO lounges really have a 21 rule ? i've been in there and not even close to 18.

Where you with someone over 21?

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30): Quoting CaptainTim (Reply 16):well how come under 21s are allowed into Red Carpet lounge unaccompanied i know because i have seen it with my own eyes, is it because the bar is not open bar and staffed by a bartender? or is it just a different policy UA takes on age requirements?UA charges for it's alcohol.

Not in the Miami RCC - at least the last time I was there. It was a few years ago, however. 2003, I believe.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 55): Delta at least (just because I am most familiar with them due to being on them 90% of the time), it says in the inflight magazine that alcohol is limited to those that are 21 years and above.

From my observations in Delta's Domestic First Class...as long as you look of age and are dressed well no flight attendant will ever ask to see your ID. Delta takes great care of their First Class riders.

Its unfortunate that an ADULT (18+) who can goto war, buy cigarettes, vote, go to prison for life, be charged as an adult for a crime, and buy porn is not considered an adult half the time.

so sad, in my eyes CO denied an Adult into the club. I understand the liquor laws, I have my TABC, just put a bar tender who ID's behind the counter.

Quoting Morrirvolando (Reply 56): When one purchases a specific type of service one is in turn entitled to the priveleges that are part of that service.

One of the key issues here, is that that service on board the aircraft is by crew members who can always ask for ID to confirm the age of the passenger. In the lounges, it is self serve.

NW, CO et. al. don't have the people to police the bar to make sure that no underage drinking is taking place.

I really don't see what the problem is. The drinking age in the US is 21, period. The clubs are a privilege/courtesy of the airlines, and those are the rules.

Let's be frank here, when most "kids" see free and readily available booze they will take advantage of it.

Now, let's talk about something important. Should people in nice khaki shorts and flip flops be allowed in?   

Quoting Morrirvolando (Reply 56): Perhaps you'll understand this comparison.... why permit the 20 year old to travel in a cabin where alcohol is being served but not permit this person to enter a lounge where alcohol is being served?

First off, alcohol is a controlled substance; hence the laws regarding the sale and consumption of alcohol. In this case, the lounge has an open bar, i.e.; no bartender; drink to your heart's content—therefore, they, by regulation, must not allow anyone under the legal age who is not accompanied by someone above the legal, or even his parent or guardian, from entering.

On the aircraft, the liquor is controlled via the flight attendants. If the flight attendants feel that you have had enough liquor, then, by law, they must stop allowing you to consuming alcohol by denying it to you altogether.

This is akin to bars, restaurants with bars, and clubs. Standalone bars generally do not allow those under 21 inside their premises. Restaurants with bars will generally allow the underage into the bar section, but not sit at the actual bar. These two also control how much you intake, and can stop you before you become too intoxicated. Contrast this with clubs, where there are generally too many people for the bartender to keep track of, and so they will keep handing you alcohol, but it is up to the bouncers to determine when you've had enough, and if you are underage, for them to ensure that you have not had any alcohol.

[Edited 2007-06-12 21:22:56]

i don't understand this myself either. what does age have to do with this? the op purchased a F ticket. part of this is allowance to a lounge. he should be allowed!
and this thing about age requirement due to the serving of alchohol- poppycock i say. isn't alcohol served on board the metal tube at 35,000 ft up? what is to be done then? ban him from the flight?

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 65): i don't understand this myself either. what does age have to do with this? the op purchased a F ticket. part of this is allowance to a lounge. he should be allowed! and this thing about age requirement due to the serving of alchohol- poppycock i say. isn't alcohol served on board the metal tube at 35,000 ft up? what is to be done then? ban him from the flight?

No! See posts 63 & 64.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 63): NW, CO et. al. don't have the people to police the bar to make sure that no underage drinking is taking place.

Once again........put the people so every passenger paying the high fare can take advantage of the lounge ammenities........take care of the customer who gives you revenue no matter age!!!

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 64): The clubs are a privilege/courtesy of the airlines, and those are the rules.

AFAIK lounge access is a privilege you pay for when you buy a F/J ticket

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 65): This is akin to bars, restaurants with bars, and clubs.

Bars and clubs make money selling drinks, airlines do not.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 63): Let's be frank here, when most "kids" see free and readily available booze they will take advantage of it.

where did you pull that one from?

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 65): i don't understand this myself either. what does age have to do with this? the op purchased a F ticket. part of this is allowance to a lounge. he should be allowed!and this thing about age requirement due to the serving of alchohol- poppycock i say. isn't alcohol served on board the metal tube at 35,000 ft up? what is to be done then? ban him from the flight?

Don't try. It's futile.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 67): Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 64): The clubs are a privilege/courtesy of the airlines, and those are the rules. AFAIK lounge access is a privilege you pay for when you buy a F/J ticket

That's not my quote. Try again.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 67): Bars and clubs make money selling drinks, airlines do not.

They don't make money off the $5 they ask me to pay for a 12 oz can of Miller Lite in coach? (I realize we are talking about a club here). Besides, as another poster indicated, alcohol is a controlled substance in every state in the United States regardless of whether money is made or not.

Quoting Morrirvolando (Reply 68): Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 63): Let's be frank here, when most "kids" see free and readily available booze they will take advantage of it. where did you pull that one from?

Go to any party any Friday night on any college campus in the United States.

The law is the law...that's the way it is here. I say this with all do respect to the OP, but if you don't like it....write your congressman! People got the 55 mph speed limit that was tied to federal funding lifted....it's the same here.

[Edited 2007-06-12 21:56:55]

Texas drinking age is 21, thats your best reason.

Fellow americans, nobody here (or at least myself) is trying to build a case against american law (this isn't the proper forum anyway)......

The case is that airlines can and should take the measures to grant everybody for what they pay for regardless of age. Not everywhere alcohol is sold U21 are forbidden.

Quoting CaptainTim (Reply 14): well how come under 21s are allowed into Red Carpet lounge unaccompanied i know because i have seen it with my own eyes, is it because the bar is not open bar and staffed by a bartender?

In the Commonwealth of Virginia which IAD is located, I think that a bartender has to serve alcohol. Perhaps an ABC liquor law ??

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 76): In the Commonwealth of Virginia which IAD is located, I think that a bartender has to serve alcohol. Perhaps an ABC liquor law ??

There are several states like this. For example, the WorldClub in SEA is required to have a bartender serve the alcohol, despite several WorldClubs having the self-serve alcohol. Reason is due to Washington state liquor laws. Heck, I was in the Crown Room in SEA and the bartender wouldn't let me have the bottle of beer to finish off; she said state liquor laws said they could only serve alcohol in a glass and not give the bottle.

As for UA, AA and US allowing 18-20 year olds in, they all charge for alcohol, which necessitates the use of a bartender. It's much more like a traditional bar, you go in, pay your $5, get your beer. With DL, NW and CO, it's come in, have a beer, no exchange of cash, etc. With NW, you walk in and right there is a tap with Miller Lite and Heineken; you bring a 20 year old in there, and there's a good chance he'll have some of that, since there's no one to stop him once past the entrydesk.

Quoting KingAirMan (Thread starter):

Well I do sympathise with you. Before I was 21, I never had a problem with getting into any lounge (BA, Emirates, Aer Lingus, British Midland etc) although I was asked if I was 18 on an Emirates flight from Dubai to Singapore when I was sipping away on the 1993 Dom Perignon.

It seems as though you're an American - sorry about that. I stayed away as much as I could from the place until I turned 21. Wasn't worth the pettiness.

All the best!

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 70): The case is that airlines can and should take the measures to grant everybody for what they pay for regardless of age.

If I'm reading the OP correctly his flight on CO was IAH-SFO in domestic First Class. This ticket does not gain you access to the lounge regardless of wherever he goes later that night on whatever other airline to his international destination.

I personally don't think we are getting the whole story from the OP honestly. I read it as such...

1) A kid flying on Daddy's dime.
2) Said kid thinks that because he is flying in First within the USA that he should have access to lounge.
3) Doesn't like the answer that he is given about his age and probably that his ticket isn't eligible for entry anyways.
4) Wants to complain because a different airline unaffiliated with the earlier one lets them in their lounge.
5) Comes to A.net to complain and garner sympathy that is non-forthcoming.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 70): I personally don't think we are getting the whole story from the OP honestly. I read it as such...1) A kid flying on Daddy's dime.2) Said kid thinks that because he is flying in First within the USA that he should have access to lounge.3) Doesn't like the answer that he is given about his age and probably that his ticket isn't eligible for entry anyways.4) Wants to complain because a different airline unaffiliated with the earlier one lets them in their lounge.5) Comes to A.net to complain and garner sympathy that is non-forthcoming.

You know, he should just do what many of us did before we came of age - stand outside the liquor store and ask someone to please buy us some beer.   

Unless accompanied by a Elite or Club member at NW you must be 21 or older. If you buy a day pass you must be atleast 21 years of age.

Quoting LVHGEL (Reply 50): Thats a good question, and a very good point, I understand that US Federal Law should be enforced in any vessel flying or sailing under the American Flag, Then again I am not a lawyer, if anyone with a better understanding of this issue is kind enough to elaborate, I will appreciate it very much.

The reason this doesn't hold up is that the drinking age isn't a federal law. Each state gets to set its own age; it used to be 18 in most states in the 1970s. Then Mothers Against Drunk Driving, a uniquely American advocacy group, lobbied Congress to change this. As Congress can't change state laws and MADD couldn't get the 2/3 vote to pass a Constitutional amendment, they had to find an alternative. So, what they came up with was tying federal highway funding distributed through block grants to the states to that state changing the drinking age to 21 (the National Minimum Drinking Age Act). Most did it almost immediately, but Louisiana held out for several years, and South Dakota actually filed a legal challenge (unsuccessful). Interestingly, the laws relating to enforcement and underage consumption in private settings vary widely by state, still.

Be grateful for your youth--it won't last long. Continental's President's Club rules clearly state you must be 21 to get into the club unaccompanied--end of story. Be grateful too that you're fortunate to be able to afford or otherwise aquire a First Class ticket in the first place--most of us ride in steerage.

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 74): Be grateful too that you're fortunate to be able to afford or otherwise aquire a First Class ticket in the first place--most of us ride in steerage.

Amen to that! I'm almost 28 and the only time I flew in F was because of an oversold situation on a UA 757 between DEN and MCI.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 18): Right, I can see it now.....underage kid gets drunk in Airline Club, parents sue. I have no problem with this rule.

You know people are just waiting on an excuse to sue someone. Im sure the people who denied you were following the rules set forth by their employer and it was nothing personal. Companys have to be way more careful these days with law suits flying all over the place for a bent nail! If you have to be age 21 then thats that. People are known NOT to follow every rule to the letter of their job and then when someone else does people balk at it. "Well in such and such I got this and was allowed that". I see it everyday even at my own job(commence bashing untill your heart is content lol).

I see this as "inconsistency" by people who do not follow every letter of the law of their job.

TABC does not allow minors under the age of 21 to be present where liquor is served without a parent present. Just like staying at a hotel, minors are not allowed in the bar area. As for the club area at IAH, it's a grey area when it comes to distance of the bar.

Why all the bashing of the original poster, the question was asked and answered. All these comments about how he is "flying on daddys dime" and "be lucky your flying in first class at your age" are beside the point and drip of age discrimination and jealousy. It is not his fault that some of you guys can't afford first class; don't take it out on him.

These comments and this thread are perfect examples of why he didn't put his true age range in his profile.

This thread is not about drinking age... It is about admission into the club, and from the rules that I read, you should be allowed to enter:

Rule: YOU MUST BE 21 TO BE A CARDHOLDER, you are not a cardholder, it never said you have to be 21 to enter.
Rule: YOU CAN ENTER IF YOU HOLD A INTL PERIMUM CLASS BOARDING PASS, which you did.

Well the OP must have been a naughty boy somewhere along the line as he has copped a 7 day ban from the site.

I would not bash someone just because they can afford to fly up the pointy end, I do not however have sympathy with him as far as denied access to the lounge is concerned as the lounge has to comply with the laws of the state/country it is in. In this case Texas where the law says 21 to be able to be unaccompanied on licenced premises serving alcohol. Simple really.

Texas, do we need to really say more than that?

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 28): Of course everybody has to comply with the law, so my belief is that airlines should take the measures to enable every passenger to enjoy the plus services provided to the ones who pay the high fares without age discrimination.....

Oh please, that's classic. "I was denied access to a bar just because I'm underage! I think I'll sue." It's not age discrimination... It's called being responsible, and It's the law. Most liquor establishments have age requirements as well. As for enjoying the plus services, The FA's wouldn't serve him a pre-departure drink which is deffinitely a plus, so what's the difference? I don't know, but I'm sure the ladies working the club were'nt being facetious when they said to come back in a year, at least I hope not.

Anyway, I didn't get the impression that the poster felt discriminated against, just wanted input as he stated.

Quoting Morrirvolando (Reply 31): Old enough to buy a first class ticket....old enough to enter the club.

Not according to their rules... which are clearly stated. All you have to do is read.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23): Bottom line is the kid was under 21 and traveling alone. CO has rules for entry into their club and he didn't meet them in one way, shape, or form.

  

Quoting LH431 (Reply 36): So,is there the same rule for UA Intl. First Class Lounges? I'm pretty sure they have self-serve booze too!

Sure do. I've only been to a couple of the IFLs but they had self service.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 26): Technically, once youve cleared customs and immigration (i.e in the US entered past security in an exclusively international terminal) you have left the United States. This is why you can buy duty free and so on.

Eh? How do you clear customs and immigration when departing the US? I've flown internationally from most of the big US airports and have never cleared anything but security. Sure you can buy Duty Free goods but only if departing on an international flight but there are no customs or immigration to clear.

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 67): In the Commonwealth of Virginia which IAD is located, I think that a bartender has to serve alcohol. Perhaps an ABC liquor law ??

Not so. Both the British Airways F & J lounges at IAD are self service.

Quoting Bakersdozen (Reply 78): Why all the bashing of the original poster, the question was asked and answered. All these comments about how he is "flying on daddys dime" and "be lucky your flying in first class at your age" are beside the point and drip of age discrimination and jealousy. It is not his fault that some of you guys can't afford first class; don't take it out on him.

   I get pretty tired of reading the 'you should be glad Daddy's paying' nonsense. The fact is, no matter how wealthy you are there is always going to be someone else out there wealthier than yourself, except Bill Gates but you see my point! Regardless of that flying in premium cabins has never been more accessible for less money. Frequent flyer awards, upgrade vouchers, Y-UP discounted fares etc etc. Don't rush to the assumption that 'Daddy pays' just because you've never flown anything but Y.

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 32): you lot must be ashamed of them.

BA Terraces club at LHR was serve yourself alcohol the last 10 times I've been in it.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 79): This thread is not about drinking age... It is about admission into the club, and from the rules that I read, you should be allowed to enter: Rule: YOU MUST BE 21 TO BE A CARDHOLDER, you are not a cardholder, it never said you have to be 21 to enter. Rule: YOU CAN ENTER IF YOU HOLD A INTL PERIMUM CLASS BOARDING PASS, which you did.

Rule: Continental reserves the right to restrict, alter or modify the fees, benefits, services and clubroom locations at any time with or without written notice to its members.

Rule: Continental reserves the right to revoke membership privileges of those who fail to comply with the above guidelines and/or disrupt other members.


Which basically means "WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE." End of story. It's CO's club, and CO's rules - and they can alter them anytime they damn well please.

I don't think anyone is really bashing him because of his age or ability to fly first class. He's getting bashed for whining on this forum as if he's entitled to make Continental waive their policies just for him in violation of Texas law.

CO President's Club lounges are reciprocal with all other SkyTeam members lounge memberships. If the passenger was flying in F class on a domestic itinerary (IAH-SFO is not international), then he would not be allowed access into the lounge, because as I understand it, that access is for Premium Class (F or J/C) international departures from that airport...or a member of the President's Club. According to King Air Man's statement, he continued that night to SFO (on DL) and was allowed access into SQ's lounge as he was flying F class on SQ that night from SFO.

Now the person stating that he was denied access because of his age got it all wrong. CO President's Clubs do have a bar, but they are not an open bar, they are hosted. Therefore, any minor who is traveling on a premium class on a SkyTeam carrier would have been allowed access if he had been departing IAH to, say, NRT on CO. It was the correct thing for the agent to do; it was just the wrong rationale.

Access to lounges for minors is permitted if the passenger is flying on a premium class ticket from that departure city, OR has a membership to the Club (or reciprocal alliance airline Club). If they are under age, they may be carded to determine if they are legal, since no liquor can be served to any minor (regardless of class of service) on the ground in the USA. Once in the air, the rules of the country from where the airline is based governs the serving of liquors to minors. In the case of SQ, I believe it is 18 years of age.

King Air Man was caught in that unfortunate gray zone; the domestic leg of an international journey, where DOMESTIC rules apply.

Too bad, because I'm sure King Air Man was not there to drink, just to rest; especially given the fact he was starting a very long journey. BTW, why was he flying DL IAH-SFO? They don't have nonstop service, he would have had to connect at SLC or DFW. Of course, he may have been on a code share, but I didn't know that CO/DL code shared on domestic services between IAH-SFO.

baw716

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 86): Which basically means "WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE." End of story. It's CO's club, and CO's rules - and they can alter them anytime they damn well please.

Which "damn well" makes me never want to fly "your" airline.

BTW, what the hell does it mean when you say they can alter the rules... No thay can't, they can change rules, but individuals at the airport can not just say, "Well today, you have to be 21 and a half years old." Rules are rules.

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 87): I don't think anyone is really bashing him because of his age or ability to fly first class. He's getting bashed for whining on this forum as if he's entitled to make Continental waive their policies just for him in violation of Texas law.

I don't even think he was whining - maybe, but I took it as just a question. Others have bashed him for flying in first on his daddys dime... who cares? If my dad was able to afford to send me to Asia (or anywhere, for that matter) in first, I would have told everybody I know about it. Good for him, regardless of who paid for the ticket, for being able to go in FC.

Quoting TrvlnMan (Reply 83): Not according to their rules... which are clearly stated. All you have to do is read.

to whom do you refer?

I agree with TrvInMan. Who cares who pays for the ticket? If someone wants to buy ME a F class ticket to SIN, I'm all the way on...

His post didn't seem to whine as much as complain about something to which he felt he was entitled (but was not, and not for the reason stated). Of course, there's always two sides to the story; we don't know what he said to the attendant at CO.

My guess, he was on a DL domestic flight, he was in F class on DL on a domestic flight, not a member of CO's Presidents Club and to admit him would have crowded the lounge for CO President's Club members. They just gave him a reason they thought he could understand...which was wrong. They just should have told him the truth. He would have had no reason then to complain.

baw716

Quoting Morrirvolando (Reply 91): to whom do you refer?

I was referring to you. Post 31.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 79): Rule: YOU CAN ENTER IF YOU HOLD A INTL PERIMUM CLASS BOARDING PASS, which you did.

His international flight was on SQ out of SFO and had nothing to do with CO therefore no access to the President's Club just because he had a domestic First Class ticket for CO or a SkyTeam codeshare. Bottom line is no access based on him not meeting either of the requirements.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 24): Then you have not been to the WorldClubs very often. DTW is self serve, and so is LGA. It has been that way ever since I can remember.

The first time I saw the self-serve alcohol, I was supremely impressed. Now that I've had the chance to partake in the self-serve alcohol multiple times, I'm not only impressed, but supportive of an admissions policy that allows the alcohol to flow freely.

Quoting Longhaulheavy (Reply 96): The first time I saw the self-serve alcohol, I was supremely impressed. Now that I've had the chance to partake in the self-serve alcohol multiple times, I'm not only impressed, but supportive of an admissions policy that allows the alcohol to flow freely.

Amen...one reason as to why, in my opinion, WorldClubs are quite possibly the best lounge out there for US Airlines - self-serve booze, free breakfast foods and good snacks at night, the newer clubs are quite nicely furnished (DTW and SEA are both very nice).

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 27): Let's give the poor guy a break, I remember when I was 20 and we were all there.

...I thought you still are...  .....

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 27): You're right, it sucks. I've been to many international carrier's lounges at SFO and SQ's is the worst. Was there last week and was very disappointed.

....maybe if you weren't busy working on the SQ girls you would have time to check the lounge instead...  

DL has plenty of self help liqour - do they still have pitchers of Mixed up Bloody Mary's sitting out every morning in ATL?

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 61): Once again........put the people so every passenger paying the high fare can take advantage of the lounge ammenities........take care of the customer who gives you revenue no matter age!!!

   Agree 100%. Airlines, just like many other comparable industries out there, profit most from the customers who pay the four and five figure fares. In most cases, F and J fares are significantly more expensive than Y fares, particularly on international segments, and in my opinion, anyone, regardless of age, paying for (not the same as upgrading!!!) the additional amenities in the forward cabins deserves access to a lounge while on the ground. Period. Personally, I'd be pretty displeased if I payed for, say, a BA LAX-LHR itinerary in F at USD $15,000 return and wasn't permitted inside a lounge simply because of age! Put a bar tender in the lounge if it becomes too much of a problem!

--KLM11