azhobo
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Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:28 pm

http://biz.yahoo.com/wallstreet/0706.../sb118169743230833375_id.html?.v=1

Interesting quotes...

"It's moving more slowly than some might have expected," said , Airbus's chief operating officer for customers, in an interview. "But nobody's informed me they want to cancel."

""We sent the first A350 to the cemetery, and many months later, Airbus still hasn't provided the kind of details that would make us rush to place an order," said , chairman of aircraft-leasing titan International Lease Finance Corp., a unit of Inc."

"Mr. Udvar-Hazy is expected to announce a deal with Boeing for at least 50 of the 787s, according to people familiar with the matter. The deal is valued at about $10 billion at list prices, although such orders usually carry big discounts. Mr. Udvar-Hazy confirmed that ILFC is in "advanced negotiations with Boeing.""

Among the incentives Airbus is offering are steep discounts to the airplane's sticker price of around $230 million as well as promises that Airbus will cut prices on existing orders that some airlines have for other Airbus models, according to people familiar with the matter.

"Of course we took full advantage of that," said , chief executive of Ireland's PLC, which recently ordered six A350s. Mr. Manion said that while "there's some work to be done" on the A350's design, "we'll keep Airbus's feet to the fire to meet performance guarantees."


SHOULD BE INTERESTING NEXT WEEK ...HOBO
 
NAV20
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:46 pm

Thanks for the link, Azhobo.

As you say, it will be 'interesting.' The article appears to rule out any formal A350 interest by Emirates or ILFC being announced at Paris.

I was especially struck by this reference:-

"According to people familiar with the situation, Airbus has offered to pay US Airways steep penalties if it fails to deliver the A350 on time. The airline's board is scheduled to meet today, but a person familiar with the airline's deliberations say there is no guarantee it will agree to a deal."

On the face of that, Airbus are battling even to persuade prospective customers that they can meet the current 2013 delivery date.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
2wingtips
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:02 pm

Is there anything good about the XWB in this article? If true ILFC will have committed to 70+ 787s by the end of next week and may still be waiting for more XWB details.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:02 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
On the face of that, Airbus are battling even to persuade prospective customers that they can meet the current 2013 delivery date.

This is very similar to what Tim Clark claims to be worried about, but recently he said he was much more confident Airbus would be able to deliver due to "changing" the way they design, build and deliver planes with the A350.

Which sheds some light on the A350 problems with customers. It's not just that they want to see Airbus give more details, or that they think the 787-9 and 787-10 are better, but that they don't actually believe Airbus can deliver the jet as promised, either on time, or some don't buy the specs (like ILFC).

Though Clark now says he is confident Airbus can deliver based on the most recent changes to the company. Then again, like QR and their enormous growth plans, I don't think EK or QR are really that concerned if things come slower than promised, because it just gives them more time to figure out what to do with 400 widebodies based in the UAE...

Still, quite a few people just a few months ago were dismissing observations by you, me and others that the A380 will have a long term impact on Airbus far greater than just one late niche program, that specifically airlines now have no confidence that AIrbus can deliver because they repeatedly LIED and then blamed the customers. Airbus is going to have to rebuild that confidence quickly if they don't want to be relegated to the "A320 company" (a position other defunct airframe makers would be quite envious of, BTW).

This is why I think Leahy should be fired, but I still get flack about that. Obviously, few customers believe what he's saying, nor has he really been great at getting Airbus to respond to customer needs. But he sure does talk a lot to the press, and make a lot of claims that turn out to be false. And that can't help build confidence in him, either.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Paris. I have no doubt Airbus will announce a lot of orders, but it'll be interesting to see what this means for the rest of the year.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
azhobo
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:13 pm

Yes I was prepared for some big a350 orders to be announced but now I am not so sure. THis is A home court and they usually play a mean game. Could this be an airshow upset for Boeing?

It also seems odd with recent comments from EK clark. It really seems that Clark is trying to drum up support for the A350. His previous comments bashing airbus design details a few weeks ago conflict with his comments this week. HIs bashing comments a few weeks ago were in the same article as ILFC whose comments were also making the same criticism. This article indicates ILFC observations have not changed, and the PLC comments confirm what ILFC and EK said a few weeks ago.

But clarks latest oppinion has changed. Seems he is predisposed to buy the a350 but does not want to be the only one on board when they announce end of the year. Or could he feels he missed the slots boat in placing a large order for the 787?

All IMO, HOBO
 
NAV20
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 4):
Or could he feels he missed the slots boat in placing a large order for the 787?

I think that is the problem that quite a few airline CEOs face in relation to the 787, Azhobo. They can still get at least some 787s for 2013 delivery if they sign up soon. If they DON'T, they are effectively framing their whole midsize longhaul strategy around the A350; which, on the evidence of the quotes in the article, may not even arrive in 2013, and may not perform adequately vis a vis the 787 even if it does.

Not an easy decision to make - and also maybe not an easy one to get past your Board.

[Edited 2007-06-13 08:22:05]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
2wingtips
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 4):
But clarks latest oppinion has changed. Seems he is predisposed to buy the a350 but does not want to be the only one on board when they announce end of the year. Or could he feels he missed the slots boat in placing a large order for the 787?

And is Clark at odds with Flanagan, who only last week said EK basically knew nothing about the 350, including it's seat-mile costs?
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:36 pm

Quote;
"It hasn't managed to persuade customers to convert an additional 91 orders and 22 commitments for a previous version of the A350 into orders for the revamped model."

Could this have something to do with the fact that the current 350 is a completely different airplane than the one they originally ordered.

Ruscoe
 
azhobo
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:49 pm

I have not seen much of this on the slots discussions. Athough i am a NOOB here.

Everyone feels that B is slot filled through 2012 with 600 frames on order, But I feel B really has more slot room than that. This all assumes that Boeing can meet EIS in May 2008.

My gut says the EIS for a350 will likely be 2014 by the time they firm up the design. Assuming A has a similar ramp up like 787 after EIS, A will likely only have 110 slots in 2014 and 2015. I believe by then Boeing could be delivering 180 planes a year (conservatively if the plane orders remain as hot s they are now).

So by the end of 2015, A will have delivered 110 frames, while Boeing could have delivered:

2008-2012 ~ 600 frames.
2013-2015 ~ 540 frames.

This gives them a 1000+ slot advantage. So I think the slot game is not a big advantage for A till 2016. After that it comes down to really who has the better aircraft.

HOBO

[Edited 2007-06-13 09:01:33]
 
iwok
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 8):
This gives them a 1000+ slot advantage. So I think the slot game is not a big advantage for A till 2016. After that it comes down to really who has the better aircraft.

I'd be interested to know how many OPTIONS & COMMITMENTS the 787 has in addition to the firm orders. Those alone might give A the slot advantage by 2016.

iwok
 
azhobo
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:27 pm

"EADS strategy chief Jean-Paul Gut said he was resigning in a dispute with the company's top officials over his efforts to integrate sales, marketing and strategy -- combining his role with sales responsibilities jealously guarded by EADS units."

I wonder if he 'bailed' because of lackluster sales for the airshow. If he really 'resigned', then why the golden parachute. That is usually provided to those asked to 'resign'. IMO he was likely asked to leave for underperformance issues.

HOBO
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:32 pm

The German magazin "Der Spiegel" -historically anti-French and anti-Airbus,with a track-record of lousy aviation reporting,hailed the 787 succes story by comparing "nearly 600 787 sales against only 13 ...A350 sales.."
I don't know where they get their figures from,but the author of this article shour do some home-work...
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:52 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 10):
wonder if he 'bailed' because of lackluster sales for the airshow. If he really 'resigned', then why the golden parachute. That is usually provided to those asked to 'resign'. IMO he was likely asked to leave for underperformance issues.

Mr Gut is under investigation for questionable EADS stock trades. I think you are spot on that he was "encouraged" to resign as part of the ongoing house-cleaning at Airbus.
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 11):
The German magazin "Der Spiegel" -historically anti-French and anti-Airbus,with a track-record of lousy aviation reporting,hailed the 787 succes story by comparing "nearly 600 787 sales against only 13 ...A350 sales.."
I don't know where they get their figures from,but the author of this article shour do some home-work...

The article is correct, as it refers to firm orders, not LOIs or MOUs. The Wall Street Journal is the source of the Der Spiegel story
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
davescj
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:57 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
they don't actually believe Airbus can deliver the jet as promised, either on time, or some don't buy the specs

Lets face it, when you have problems delivering on orders, esp in the current market when customers fuses are non existent, you can't afford to lose the face Airbus has over the 380 fiasco. While Boeing has made no statements other than that 787 is on time, ahead of schedule, etc, Boeing is in the same fix -- they can't let that plane be late. This could shift the whole industry if Boeing surges ahead ontime/onproduct/etc.
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:00 pm

Air France - KLM also remains unconvinced:

Quote:
"They still have to convince people they can build an aircraft that competes with the Boeing aircraft," said Air France President Pierre-Henri Gourgeon in an interview. Air France-KLM SA, the airline's parent, plans next year to select between the A350 and the Dreamliner.

I always find it interesting and refreshing, despite how many people over here complain about the French, that in the end of the day Air France is very capitalistic and ignores national interests  Smile

If Airbus loses the EK order, I'm doubtful that Airbus will proceed with the A350. If EK goes 787, then I'm sure BA, US and AF/KLM will be even more reluctant to select the A350, and Airbus may as well shut the program down and focus completely churning out really cheap A330s and the NSR.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 13):
The article is correct, as it refers to firm orders, not LOIs or MOUs. The Wall Street Journal is the source of the Der Spiegel story

The Airbus Order page figures 71 orders for the -800 and 33 orders for the -900 series.
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:47 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 16):
The Airbus Order page figures 71 orders for the -800 and 33 orders for the -900 series

That includes the original A350 orders. The majority of those have not yet been converted into XWB orders.

Big version: Width: 235 Height: 259 File size: 7kb
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Beaucaire
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:09 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 17):
The majority of those have not yet been converted into XWB orders

But they have not been cancelled neither...
So as long a carrier maintains an order for a specific model - despite the aircraft undergoing specification -changes, Airbus has to keep them as confirmed orders.
A typical example is Yemenia Airways,who keep their order-announcement for the A350 on their web-page and publicise it.
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SEPilot
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Still, quite a few people just a few months ago were dismissing observations by you, me and others that the A380 will have a long term impact on Airbus far greater than just one late niche program, that specifically airlines now have no confidence that AIrbus can deliver because they repeatedly LIED and then blamed the customers. Airbus is going to have to rebuild that confidence quickly if they don't want to be relegated to the "A320 company" (a position other defunct airframe makers would be quite envious of, BTW).

 checkmark 
IMHO the worst thing any company can do is lie to customers; it is almost certain to come out. Credibility once lost is very difficult if not impossible to reestablish, and when you are talking about billions of dollars (or euros) it is essential. I agree that this is the real root of why the A350 is not catching on.
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 18):
So as long a carrier maintains an order for a specific model - despite the aircraft undergoing specification -changes, Airbus has to keep them as confirmed orders.

That is true, but it is also incorrect to say the article is wrong when it quotes only 13 A350 orders. It is clear that the article is referring to the XWB version, the aircraft that Airbus will build. Sure you can nitpick if you want, but at the end of the day the unconverted 91 A350 orders can be viewed as liablities, while the 13 XWB orders can be viewed as assets (if they build this plane).
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
Danny
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 17):
That includes the original A350 orders. The majority of those have not yet been converted into XWB orders.

I think you will see many conversions announced in Paris next week.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Though Clark now says he is confident Airbus can deliver based on the most recent changes to the company. Then again, like QR and their enormous growth plans, I don't think EK or QR are really that concerned if things come slower than promised, because it just gives them more time to figure out what to do with 400 widebodies based in the UAE...

...when will they have 400 widebodies from at any given moment?  confused 
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Stitch
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:28 pm

Seattle Times on the ILFC 787 Rumor - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ogy/2003745590_parispreshow13.html
Seattle PI on the ILFC 787 Rumor - http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/319618_boeing13.html

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DAYflyer
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
I think that is the problem that quite a few airline CEOs face in relation to the 787, Azhobo. They can still get at least some 787s for 2013 delivery if they sign up soon. If they DON'T, they are effectively framing their whole midsize longhaul strategy around the A350; which, on the evidence of the quotes in the article, may not even arrive in 2013, and may not perform adequately vis a vis the 787 even if it does.

Thats quite a statement. But it does appear to be shaping up that way. I will say in defense of Airbus that I understand what they are trying to do, but again I think they should have stayed with a 767/A300/A330 replacement sized aircraft, and designed a 777 competitor. In this manner they would have forced Boeings hand on Y3 prematurely and had placed quite a bit of pressure on the 787 product line as well. I think if they had done that, we would see a real horse race.
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NYC777
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 18):
But they have not been cancelled neither...
So as long a carrier maintains an order for a specific model - despite the aircraft undergoing specification -changes, Airbus has to keep them as confirmed orders.
A typical example is Yemenia Airways,who keep their order-announcement for the A350 on their web-page and publicise it.

Those are old order which, in light of the redesign and relaunch of the XWB should not even be booked, those old orders have delivery dates of 2011-012 on them which Airbus states they cannot make with the XWB.

Airbus only has 13 firm orders forthe A350 XWB and everything else ordered prior to the XWB have to be re-negotiated and cannot be considered a firm order. Those old A350 orders are in effect delayed because of the redesign and EIS of 2013.
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jfk777
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:40 pm

I never thought the state of the A350 program was so bad. Airbus has a BIG problem on its hands, A330 will only buy them a few years. Airbus has to build the A350 for its own mid- market airplane, perhaps taking on the 787 and the 777 is too much for one design. They should go for the 250-300 787 market and then if in 2015 the market exists for a 777 killer go with an A350 strech or a new design. The A350 is replacing both the A330 and 340.
 
NAV20
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 24):
Thats quite a statement. But it does appear to be shaping up that way. I will say in defense of Airbus that I understand what they are trying to do, but again I think they should have stayed with a 767/A300/A330 replacement sized aircraft, and designed a 777 competitor.

Agree, with hindsight, that an up-ranged A330 might have been a better stopgap, DAYflyer. But I think the mistakes that led to this developing situation were made some years ago, just after EADS was set up - specifically:-

A. Not seeing the potential of ETOPS, and instead putting their trust in the A340.

B. Not seeing the potential of all-composite construcrion, and instead dismissing the 787 as a 'Chinese copy.'

I also think that the underlying cause of both those mistakes was the (IMO, crazy) pursuit of 'global player' status by staking everything on the A380.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
MEA
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:02 pm

Based on Airbus' history of announcing orders, I suspect we will see a few A350s ordered with MOUs and LOIs firmed up starting next week.

Airbus has dropped the ball, similar to what Boeing experienced a few years ago. It's just part of the regular business cycle.
 
NAV20
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 20):
Sure you can nitpick if you want, but at the end of the day the unconverted 91 A350 orders can be viewed as liablities, while the 13 XWB orders can be viewed as assets (if they build this plane).

Certainly you're right about the original A350 orders being a liability, CygnusChicago - they represent a future compensation claim for lost business when Airbus fails to deliver; the airlines would be crazy to cancel them.

But I'm not sure that they'd be 'assets' even if Airbus managed to convert them to A350XWB orders. The obvious starting-point for price negotiations would be the prices the various airlines had agreed to pay for the earlier version. Given that the XWB is reckoned to cost about twice what the earlier version would have cost to develop, and more to build too, and be delivered much later, it's hard to see how Airbus could turn a profit on them.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
airfrnt
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:13 pm

Bear in mind. The Air Shows are Airbus territory's. They will make a good showing at it, because their sales team is designed for big splash moments. I would be shocked if Airbus doesn't walk away with 100+ orders for the A350, and a temporary sales lead.
 
Danny
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 30):
Bear in mind. The Air Shows are Airbus territory's. They will make a good showing at it, because their sales team is designed for big splash moments. I would be shocked if Airbus doesn't walk away with 100+ orders for the A350, and a temporary sales lead.

If ILFC closes the deal for 50 more 787s then it will be hard to see Airbus taking the lead.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 31):
If ILFC closes the deal for 50 more 787s then it will be hard to see Airbus taking the lead

What about the other leasing giant, GECAS? IIRC, they ordered the A350 (the one that SUH said he sent to the cemetery), but not the 787. Perhaps they'll get into the action at Le Bourget as well?
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clickhappy
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:20 pm

well as promises that Airbus will cut prices on existing orders that some airlines have for other Airbus models

WOW! So they are resorting to giving money back, on orders already placed, to stimulate demand for the A350?
 
deltadc9
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Still, quite a few people just a few months ago were dismissing observations by you, me and others that the A380 will have a long term impact on Airbus far greater than just one late niche program, that specifically airlines now have no confidence that AIrbus can deliver because they repeatedly LIED and then blamed the customers. Airbus is going to have to rebuild that confidence quickly if they don't want to be relegated to the "A320 company" (a position other defunct airframe makers would be quite envious of, BTW).

I am one of the people that agree with this. Every time someone on this board assumes that the balance of 50-50 is somehow a given, its like they think that what happened to MD cannot ever happen again. History tends to repeat itself. Airbus may recover, they may not, but to assume they will just because they build great planes flies in the face of what happened to MD, and Lockheed for that matter (pardon the pun). And dont think I assume Boeing is immune to the same fate, but they have prooven to be a tough nut to crack despite all thier screwups, which surprised me I must say.

Nissan makes great cars, but they were on the brink of disaster for a long time anyway. It comes down to upper management, and a CEO that can put a reliable face on the company for its customers, shareholders, and those who determine the bond ratings and financial structures. That is why CEOs get paid what they do, when the shit hits the fan, they can make or break a company.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
Danny
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 32):
What about the other leasing giant, GECAS? IIRC, they ordered the A350 (the one that SUH said he sent to the cemetery), but not the 787. Perhaps they'll get into the action at Le Bourget as well?

You mean GE will order aircraft that does not offer GE engines? I'd like to see that  Wink
 
Danny
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 33):
well as promises that Airbus will cut prices on existing orders that some airlines have for other Airbus models

WOW! So they are resorting to giving money back, on orders already placed, to stimulate demand for the A350?

At least they didn't get as low as buying competitor's aircraft back from airlines  Wink
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:31 pm

And then selling them. At a profit.

Remember, Boeing has shareholders to answer.

But, none the less, we aren't talking about something Boeing did 10 years ago. We are talking about today. And Airbus giving away the store just to try to stay even.

If you want to start a thread about Boeing's past history, be my guest. This thread is about the WSJ article posted above.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 4):
Yes I was prepared for some big a350 orders to be announced but now I am not so sure. THis is A home court and they usually play a mean game. Could this be an airshow upset for Boeing?

It looks to me that they have some stuff to annouce:

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...ms/07_06_12_A380_at_LeBourget.html
 
deltadc9
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 36):
At least they didn't get as low as buying competitor's aircraft back from airlines

Are we sure about that?

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 37):
we aren't talking about something Boeing did 10 years ago.

If we were we could also talk about how Airbus used to transport large parts.....
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
Poitin
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 31):
Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 30):
Bear in mind. The Air Shows are Airbus territory's. They will make a good showing at it, because their sales team is designed for big splash moments. I would be shocked if Airbus doesn't walk away with 100+ orders for the A350, and a temporary sales lead.

If ILFC closes the deal for 50 more 787s then it will be hard to see Airbus taking the lead.

While it is likely Leahy has a pile of orders to announce, it is now equally clear that Boeing is going to play the same game. The ILFC order for 50 or so 787s is not "official" even though leaked all over the place.

If I remember correctly, the "industry airshow" part of the Paris Airshow is Monday through Thursday, which means this time next week we will all be sitting on the edge of our computer chair.

Let the GAMES BEGIN  praise 
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norcal
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 32):
What about the other leasing giant, GECAS? IIRC, they ordered the A350 (the one that SUH said he sent to the cemetery), but not the 787. Perhaps they'll get into the action at Le Bourget as well?

Given the fact that the A350 doesn't currently have GE engines I doubt GECAS will order it, but I could be wrong.

Quoting Danny (Reply 31):
If ILFC closes the deal for 50 more 787s then it will be hard to see Airbus taking the lead.

Don't write them off yet. They still have QR (80) and possibly SU (22) and some other smaller orders  Wink

However if the AA order rumour pans out then it will overshadow anything at Paris (even if EK were to order)

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 30):
Bear in mind. The Air Shows are Airbus territory's. They will make a good showing at it, because their sales team is designed for big splash moments. I would be shocked if Airbus doesn't walk away with 100+ orders for the A350, and a temporary sales lead.

 checkmark 
 
Danny
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 40):
While it is likely Leahy has a pile of orders to announce, it is now equally clear that Boeing is going to play the same game. The ILFC order for 50 or so 787s is not "official" even though leaked all over the place.

So QR order for 30+30 is only "rumoured" but it I am sure than Randy will be all over Paris shouting about over 100 787s sold on Airbus territory.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:43 pm

They are saying the QR 787 order will be signed at the PAS.

IS SU really going to order 22 A350s? They just signed for 22 787s  Wink

Where would they fly all these airplanes?
 
NYC777
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 43):
They are saying the QR 787 order will be signed at the PAS.

IS SU really going to order 22 A350s? They just signed for 22 787s

Where would they fly all these airplanes?

Have to agree there. They'll go with one or the other. The LoIs that they had signed is just reserving delivery slots. Now it's up to the politicians to decide which company gets the order.

Will be Boeing (where GWB has to tone down is criticism of Comrade Putin and play ball vis a vis missle defense deplyments in Eastern Eurpoe) or will it be Airbus (where Euro politicians have to accede to Comrade Putin's demand for a greater equity stake in EADS)?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 43):
They are saying the QR 787 order will be signed at the PAS.

What 787 order? Do you mean A350?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
Poitin
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RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 42):
So QR order for 30+30 is only "rumoured" but it I am sure than Randy will be all over Paris shouting about over 100 787s sold on Airbus territory.

No, I was merely saying that Boeing is also playing the "announce it at the airshow" game too. We all know EI ORDERED six 350s. Why they couldn't wait two weeks, I don't know, but I am sure Leahy took the order.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 43):
They are saying the QR 787 order will be signed at the PAS.

IS SU really going to order 22 A350s? They just signed for 22 787s Wink

Where would they fly all these airplanes?

According to one report, SU said that their MOU for the A350 was not "effected" by their MOU for the 787. We, of course, can name several other MOUs out there for both airplanes that are still just a MOU.
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NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 45):
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 43):
They are saying the QR 787 order will be signed at the PAS.

What 787 order? Do you mean A350?

Nope the 787. The rumor is that the 30 x 787 that Boeing has as an unidentified buyer is for QR.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
azhobo
Topic Author
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 42):
So QR order for 30+30 is only "rumoured" but it I am sure than Randy will be all over Paris shouting about over 100 787s sold on Airbus territory.

Are you talking about the 30 787 orders rumoured to be QA UFOs on Boeing website? + 30 options?

My guess is that they may have the rumoured AA order for 100-125 +100 787 orders for 7/8/7 rollout. If that one is imminent.

I believe Boeing willl likely have 787 787 orders by 7/8/7.

Sounds like a good round number.


HOBO
 
Poitin
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: Order Rumours From WSJ For Next Week

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 47):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 45):
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 43):
They are saying the QR 787 order will be signed at the PAS.

What 787 order? Do you mean A350?

Nope the 787. The rumor is that the 30 x 787 that Boeing has as an unidentified buyer is for QR.

So they can renounce the order at the Airshow like last year? Big grin
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