WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:40 am

Hi everyone,

Today I received a number of photos from the apparent mishap involving the 787 fuselage. I would post the photos although I think that I would be breaching A.net rules.

I was wondering who else has seen and received such photos? and what are your thoughts on the matter. Does anyone know how Boeing is addressing this issue?

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9133
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:41 am

There is a picture of it on the Seattle Times website.
 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
I would post the photos although I think that I would be breaching A.net rules.

Why would it be a breech of A.net rules? I don't believe the photos are copyrighted since the owner remains anonymous.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
There is a picture of it on the Seattle Times website.

I was not aware of that. In total I received 10 (very detailed) photos.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:46 am

This link:

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/116545.asp

from this thread:

787 May Face 6 Mo. Delay, Vought Involved PT 2. (by Srbmod Jun 13 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Here is the Seattle Times link:

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...splay?slug=787gaps12&date=20070612

M

[Edited 2007-06-13 20:50:13]
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9133
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:48 am

Wings, I misread your post.

Boeing's position is that taking pictures on company property is very much against the rules. I would guess they are working hard to find out who leaked the pictures. But, unless you were asked not to by the person who sent them to you, there really shouldn't be any reason why you could not post them.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4891
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 2):
Why would it be a breech of A.net rules? I don't believe the photos are copyrighted since the owner remains anonymous.

Everything (practically) is copyrighted, whether the publisher is known or remains anonymous.
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 6):
whether the publisher is known

This is pretty much the case. There are claims being made for photos that were "anonymous", used for publication (some even for high profile adverts), then the photographer came forward and has proven that the photos were used without his permission.

In one of the links, it was stated that it appeared that the photos were being used for sending back and forth troubleshooting info, hence the details in the photos. As they are obviously Boeing's property, and sent without a location release from Boeing, I wouldn't post them.

(But you could email them to me to peek at!  Smile )
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:59 am

This is the photo from the Seattle Times...pretty much tells the story IMHO.

Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
MCIGuy
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:02 am

Yeah, I got an anonymous email from someone in the UK containing the photos. I have an idea of who it is, but I can't be sure.
Airliners.net Moderator Team
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26346
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:03 am

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Today I received a number of photos from the apparent mishap involving the 787 fuselage. I would post the photos although I think that I would be breaching A.net rules.

I received them yesterday, in the form of two PowerPoint presentations with annotations. The gaps they showed looked larger then the .3" reported.
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:07 am

Hey Stitch, under the document properties, who was the author of the *.ppt?

ed: I'm a bad spellar (sic)

[Edited 2007-06-13 21:08:05]
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
hb88
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:09 am

The ones I received also included images which looked significantly worse than the Seattle Times set. But I'm certainly not going to post or discuss them on a.net. I get enough of a flogging on the forums...

I think the .ppt file was an internal Boeing presentation.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:09 am

These are the photos that I received. Hopefully I will not get into trouble for posting them.

Big version: Width: 1816 Height: 1211 File size: 166kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 1850 Height: 1233 File size: 136kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 120kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 141kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 148kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 156kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 148kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 132kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 124kb
787 Fuselage Gaps.


Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
tak
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:41 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:11 am

Man!!! I guess I'm not in the club, nobody E-mailed me pics of the dreamliner mis-alignment  Sad. Only joking around, but WOW looks like these pics have spread like wildfire. I am curious to see your pics WINGS. Also I'm curious how many people are in the "special poeple club" who got the pics Big grin  Big grin  Big grin , Ciao
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14886
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting HB88 (Reply 12):
But I'm certainly not going to post or discuss them on a.net. I get enough of a flogging on the forums...

Discuss them. Just don't make statements like it's a CURRENT problem since they have already rectified the gaps seen on the photos.

It's no different than when the A380 was being wedged together and people got all "bent out of shape" about it, as if it's never happened before or never will again with the first full prototype of any product.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:13 am

Does it look like any proprietary process of technology has been compromised in the pictures?

The picture leak is probably a bigger story then the barrel misaignment.

ed: dumb sentence deleted/changed, earning my RR goose egg  Smile

[Edited 2007-06-13 21:17:49]
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
tak
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:41 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:14 am

WELL, ask and ye shall recieve. Thanks so much for posting these pics WINGS. They are very high quality images. Cool rulers too!  Big grin . It sounds like this has now been resolved though.
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Ga

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 16):
Somebody is doing some "splaining" as we banter...I'd hate to be on that crew in the above pics.

I had read (sorry no link at the moment) that these photos were being sent around to various folks within the company. Which, if true, could mean that employees other than the assemblers leaked the photos. For their sake, I hope they weren't stupid enough to mail these via the company's servers. If so, there are lots of opportunities in Southeast Texas in the landscaping or fast food career fields they may want to consider.  Wink
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:18 am

Great pics but man Boeing security is going to be on a witch hunt...they'll be plenty mad. I don't want to be the guy(s) who took them then distribute them.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
mham001
Posts: 5563
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:21 am

Mr Wallace yesterday wrote in his blog that the problem was initially as much as 1.75 inches. The photo used in the newspaper was taken after some corrective procedures were started.
 
BigAppleCoder
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:30 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
I was wondering who else has seen and received such photos? and what are your thoughts on the matter. Does anyone know how Boeing is addressing this issue?

Quoting from the Seattle times article:

Quote:

"It doesn't strike me as all that unexpected," Weber said. "In the process of putting those splice plates on one side, they distorted the structure a bit. That's not unusual. The structure distorts fairly readily."

Fixing that is typically done, he said, by disconnecting interior fittings -- such as floor struts and other supports -- that put pressure on the fuselage's outer shell. Then workers pull the section into alignment and reattach the fittings.

But Weber warned that such problems could be more likely and more difficult to deal with when the 787 fuselage sections start arriving fully stuffed with all interior fittings.

 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 6):
Everything (practically) is copyrighted, whether the publisher is known or remains anonymous.

Very true, and the name of the copyright holder can be or remain anonymous and still retain copyright ownership. However, I would think that is quite different, meaning the copyright holder loses much of their claims to the work, when the owner is unidentifiable AND the material is made public as in this instance by the same owner. Essentially, they are throwing their work into the public domain without any mechanism or means to claim ownership.

However, it did not occur to me that these photos may originally have belonged to Boeing to begin with and were simply commandeered for nefarious purposes. They may also belong to Boeing if a Boeing employee took the pictures, even with their own personal equipment, without Boeing's permission.

So WINGS -- don't delete your photos that you just posted!! At least not until I've had a chance to download them!  Wink
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
daedaeg
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:54 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:30 am

These pics are definitely unauthorized. They're probably pics taken by an M.E. guy(manufacture engineer) to document flaws and the production process. More than likely it was put on an internal server and some idiot decided to leak them to the public. Absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully they'll find him or her and show them the door.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14886
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:31 am

It kind of reminds me of a project I have been working on involving couch cushions. My cat peed on 2. I did everything I could to clean them without unstuffing them, but had to bite the bullet.

Inside the outer zipped cover is another zipped cover of fabric containing feathers. Inside that was a foam block.

After washing the outer covers and pouring cleaner on the foam, I was sure I'd never be able to get them back together again, considering how hard they were to get apart.

But I knew two things: they were the right size, and they had gone together before.

Last night, with a lot of folding, twisting and pulling, they went back together, and look as good as new.

Boeing also knows that the barrels are the right size, and computer models say they go together. And lo and behold, after reattaching some parts, the thing DID go together as designed. Just like the A380 went together as designed, and other frames before that.

Lucky for me though, my cushions are not meant to fly 8000nm at a time.

It would be interesting to hear Dougloid's take on this issue and what he saw at MDD regarding this kind of tweaking of parts.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
IAD787
Posts: 289
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:54 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:41 am

For the record those pictures were taken between 11pm and 12am on the evening of May 18. Almost a month ago.
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting HB88 (Reply 12):
The ones I received also included images which looked significantly worse than the Seattle Times set. But I'm certainly not going to post or discuss them on a.net. I get enough of a flogging on the forums...

Hmmm....are your photos the same as what WINGS has posted? If so, please explain how these are "significantly worse" - I don't see it.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:44 am

.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 8):
This is the photo from the Seattle Times...pretty much tells the story IMHO.

It just drives me crazy when I here people calling the the problem a gap. The only gap in the picture is the space between the two sections of fuselage and it is supposed be there. The problem is a MISMATCH (or step) between the two surfaces.
 
hb88
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Ga

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 27):
Quoting HB88 (Reply 12):
The ones I received also included images which looked significantly worse than the Seattle Times set. But I'm certainly not going to post or discuss them on a.net. I get enough of a flogging on the forums...

Hmmm....are your photos the same as what WINGS has posted? If so, please explain how these are "significantly worse" - I don't see it.

Comparing WINGS images to what I recall of the Seattle Times images (which was image 4 or 5 of Wings set?) to me the ST article mismatch image looked less substantial.

[Edited 2007-06-13 21:55:50]

[Edited 2007-06-13 21:58:28]
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26346
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Ga

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 27):
Hmmm....are your photos the same as what WINGS has posted?

They are the same pics that were in the PPTs I received which, like a dumb-arse, I did not save.  embarrassed 

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 27):
If so, please explain how these are "significantly worse" - I don't see it.

They look wider then .3 inches to me. Mind you, I'm not of the opinion this is some monumentally astounding gap.

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 26):
For the record those pictures were taken between 11pm and 12am on the evening of May 18. Almost a month ago.

Thanks for the update.

[Edited 2007-06-13 22:04:13]
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting HB88 (Reply 29):
The ST article mismatch images looked less substantial.

To my eye, the ST photo and the bottommost photo posted by WINGS are the same image - just rotated 90° smile 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8293
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:03 am

Those gap's look pretty big to me.

I'm no expert, but it looks pretty serious to me.

Rgds

Mark
111,732,733,734,735,736,73G,738,739,7M8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312,313,318,319,320,20N,321,332,333,342,343,345,346,388,CS1,CS3,I86,154,SSJ,CRJ,CR7,CR9,145,170,175,220
 
hb88
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 32):
Those gap's look pretty big to me.

I'm no expert, but it looks pretty serious to me.

Rgds

Mark

Are you insane? You can't make comments like that here...

Big version: Width: 633 Height: 479 File size: 61kb


This is a non-issue. Remember. A Non. Issue.

Big brother says that gap never existed. It is an un-gap.



 Wink for the humour impaired
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9253
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:10 am

The pictures have been on other forums for a few days. It is a troubling issue that will obviously require the subcontractors to modify subsequent components. On at least one discussion board, it was mentioned that the problem has been solved using hydraulic presses and re-drilling of the mate points. I have no idea if this is confirmed or not.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
They look wider then .3 inches to me. Mind you, I'm not of the opinion this is some monumentally astounding gap.

Especially considering the precision that was established during the 777 program.

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 26):
For the record those pictures were taken between 11pm and 12am on the evening of May 18. Almost a month ago.

Which means Boeing security is going to be searching to see who had access to the assembly floor at that exact time. If I were the gentleman or lady who took (or released) those pictures, I would begin preparing a new resume.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:14 am

If as mentioned the pictures are about a month old, this is not much news as the problem has been fixed. The news here is the leak and any proprietary info that may be publicly disclosed, such as assmebly procedures or airframe construction techniques. But if any were, it would be a big dummy for somebody to point out specifics on the thread.
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
TGV
Posts: 720
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:15 am

I am in no way a specialist in building aeroplanes, and I guess this problem will be solved, like other problems on new planes.

But what frightens me is to see, in one of the pictures, that the engineer use a ruler in inches. This seems to indicate that the US factories work in inches. While (I suppose) factories in the rest of the world (they mention Japan and Italy in some related links) work with the metric system.

Having has the “pleasure” to work on a project in Florida where both metric and imperial systems were used, and having faced a number of issues arising from this (and we stayed in the preliminary design phase, as the project was then cancelled) I am quite concerned about the risks of errors this could entail.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans
 
IAD787
Posts: 289
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:54 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 36):
But what frightens me is to see, in one of the pictures, that the engineer use a ruler in inches. This seems to indicate that the US factories work in inches. While (I suppose) factories in the rest of the world (they mention Japan and Italy in some related links) work with the metric system.

This is exactly the reason why all suppliers worked on a single engineering database that was housed in Everett.
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 36):
But what frightens me is to see, in one of the pictures, that the engineer use a ruler in inches.

In the U.S., most rulers have metric on one side and inches on the other. And it's pretty difficult to confuse the two. What's showing in the pic is probably just the side showing inches.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9253
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 36):
But what frightens me is to see, in one of the pictures, that the engineer use a ruler in inches.

No, it is both a metric and imperial ruler. It clearly shows both inches and centimeters

Quoting TGV (Reply 36):
While (I suppose) factories in the rest of the world (they mention Japan and Italy in some related links) work with the metric system.

As the lead contractor, Boeing would have surely required all of their suppliers to work on a common drafting standard; either ANSI or ISO. The story of the Mars Climate Surveyor is constantly mentioned in engineering curriculum and surely in continuing education classes as well. Not to mention, Boeing watched Airbus drop the ball using different versions of design software and they made certain all design teams for the 787 used the same versions. I think the probability of this being the result of unit error is very small. I think it's much more likely the result of using new materials that on occasion still have unknown behavior.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
bbobbo
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:33 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Ga

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
They look wider then .3 inches to me. Mind you, I'm not of the opinion this is some monumentally astounding gap.

Look at the ruler. Compare the 1" mark to the width of the gap. It looks like it's around 0.3" to me. The perspective of the photo makes the gap seem huge at the top of the photo, but right next to the ruler it's seems about right. Even the perspective of the ruler is deceiving (the distance from the 0-1" looks shorter than the distance from 1-2").

 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 36):
But what frightens me is to see, in one of the pictures, that the engineer use a ruler in inches. This seems to indicate that the US factories work in inches. While (I suppose) factories in the rest of the world (they mention Japan and Italy in some related links) work with the metric system.

Not this crap again! hissyfit 
Here in the age of digital design you can flip back and forth from meters to furlongs all day long. I much prefer metric myself, but fear of a non-metric ruler is unjustified (and unrelated to the topic of this thread).
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9253
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:24 am

On closer examination, those aren't centimeter markings on the other side. Apologies!
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
bbobbo
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:33 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Ga

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 39):
No, it is both a metric and imperial ruler. It clearly shows both inches and centimeters

No, it only shows inches. Divided into hundredths on one edge and tenths on the other. But both in inches.

Edit: Nevermind, you caught it yourself.  Smile

[Edited 2007-06-13 22:28:24]
 
hb88
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 41):
Not this crap again! hissyfit
Here in the age of digital design you can flip back and forth from meters to furlongs all day long. I much prefer metric myself, but fear of a non-metric ruler is unjustified (and unrelated to the topic of this thread).

Actually, that ruler is extremely cool in a retro sort of way. I used to use one like it when I was young before things went metric. I'd love one. It would be like carrying a slide-rule in my pocket.
 
pygmalion
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:47 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:31 am

Boeing works in inches... and when there are partners/suppliers involved, they also work in inches. So even though the Italians may use metric in the grocery store.... they use inches in the factory.
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 2291
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 39):
The story of the Mars Climate Surveyor is constantly mentioned in engineering curriculum and surely in continuing education classes as well.

And in Aerospace circles, the Gimli Glider is also a well documented example of english vs metrics, and what happens when you confuse the two.

Boeing, especially, would be keen to remember that one, as it was an almost-new 767 involved.

- litz
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 36):
But what frightens me is to see, in one of the pictures, that the engineer use a ruler in inches. This seems to indicate that the US factories work in inches. While (I suppose) factories in the rest of the world (they mention Japan and Italy in some related links) work with the metric system.

Sorry you are frightened of a rule that reads in inches, perhaps you should seek counseling for such a phobia.

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 37):
This is exactly the reason why all suppliers worked on a single engineering database that was housed in Everett.

And the master data base is in inches.
 
nwray
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:42 am

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:12 am

Is there any reason beyond insanity that would cause a Boeing employee to leak these photos? Basic disgruntlement? Are all employees required to sign some sort of confidentiality-type document?
 
wolbo
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:09 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Gaps?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:14 am

Good to see that Boeing has the air conditioning on the 787 covered.  biggrin 
 
TGV
Posts: 720
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: Who Has Received Photos Of The 787 Fuselage Ga

Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 45):
Boeing works in inches... and when there are partners/suppliers involved, they also work in inches. So even though the Italians may use metric in the grocery store.... they use inches in the factory.



Quoting 474218 (Reply 47):
And the master data base is in inches.

Wow  Wow!

So you mean that engineers around the world have to work in inches? I don't know if this is frequent (maybe some suppliers in this case are used to work with Boeing in such conditions?). But for those that are not used it can be disastrous. I accept that computers can help a lot, but this adds an additional layer and corresponding potential errors.
Furthermore when you have been raised with one system, it is easy to detect discrepancies in figures in this system, because numbers "speak" to you.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 47):
Sorry you are frightened of a rule that reads in inches, perhaps you should seek counseling for such a phobia.

If I have to work again in the US maybe. Fortunately I have avoided this trauma since 1998, as I have worked elsewhere in the world!

But I still remember vividly a meeting we had during this Florida project where the US engineers were lost, because figures did not add up in a surface calculation.
After some time I converted all in metric system, and quickly the error was found (a coefficient they had to use in the process was wrong). And these people were not beginners!

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 39):
The story of the Mars Climate Surveyor is constantly mentioned in engineering curriculum and surely in continuing education classes as well.



Quoting Litz (Reply 46):
And in Aerospace circles, the Gimli Glider is also a well documented example of english vs metrics, and what happens when you confuse the two.

Boeing, especially, would be keen to remember that one, as it was an almost-new 767 involved.

- litz

While I am not very familiar with these examples, I suppose these are cases where using different systems led to incidents/accidents.

As an engineer I know there is no such thing as a zero risk situation, but I prefer situations minimizing risks. Having people all around the world work with an unfamiliar system does not seem such a situation, but I hope I will be proven wrong.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos