Summa767
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Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:47 pm

Below are route applications to be discussed at the next public audience of Colombian aviation authority on the 27th June. The outcome will be made public within 5 working days after that.
By general rule, once granted, routes should be started within 6 months.


AEROREPUBLICA

Domestic:

MEDELLÍN-SANTA MARTA-MEDELLÍN 7 weekly frequencies

International

BOGOTÁ-SAN JOSÉ(COSTA RICA) 7 weekly frequencies, 3rd and 4th freedom rights
BUCARAMANGA-PANAMÁ 7 weekly frequencies, 3rd and 4th freedom rights.
BOGOTÁ and/or BARRANQUILLA and/or CARTAGENA-MIAMI 7 weekly frequencies, 3rd and 4th freedom rights..
CALI and/or MEDELLÍN-MIAMI 5 weekly frequencies 3rd. y 4th freedom.
BOGOTA-PANAMA-MONTERREY(MEXICO) 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom
MEDELLIN-PANAMA-MEXICO CITY 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom

To be operated in MD 80 series and Embraer 190 aircraft.

AIRES

To be operated with 3rd and 4th freedom rights on MD-80 series and/or B737-700 and/or A319

Bogotá-Fort Lauderdale-Bogotá with 7 weekly frequencies
Pereira-Cartagena-Fort Lauderdale-Cartagena-Pereira with 3 weekly frequencies
Bucaramanga-Cartagena-Fort Lauderdale-Cartagena-Bucaramanga with 2 weekly frequencies

AVIANCA

New services
Third and fourth freedom rights on BOEING 767-200ER

BOGOTA-PARIS 5 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-LONDON 3 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-FRANKFURT 4 weekly frequencies

Addition of frequencies to existing services:

BOGOTA-LOS ANGELES 2 weekly frequencies on Boeing 767-200 and Boeing 757
PEREIRA-BARRANQUILLA-NEW YORK 2 weekly frequencies on MD-83
PEREIRA-CARTAGENA-MIAMI 2 weekly frequencies on MD-83


DUTCH ANTILLES EXPRESS

Fokker 100
CURACAO-BOGOTÁ-CURACAO with 2 weekly frequencies
(This service has already started on a temporary licence)

AEROLINEA DE ANTIOQUIA (ADA)

MONTERIA- BARRANQUILLA 11 weekly freqs.
BARRANQUILLA-VALLEDUPAR 5 weekly freqs.
MEDELLIN (EOH)- ACANDI 1 weekly

To be operated with De havilland DHC-6-300 Twin Otter and/or Jetstream 32 EP

The highlights are Aires's intention to start jet services to FLL from different colombian cities, even if they have not decided what a/c type they would use.
I am assuming that airlines are counting on 14 extra freqs been available between the US and Colombia, as Aerorepublica want 11 to MIA from assorted colombian cities.
The AeroRepublica BOG-SJO is an odd one.
The AV proposed European routes have been expected, but when we will see them, is another matter. I don't see how they can add 14 long haul routes with the current 767s that they specify.
The A330s won't be coming in until late next year, but then why apply for these routes now?

[Edited 2007-06-16 16:54:53]
 
Avianca
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:19 am

wow really good news... well it looks like AV will get some more 767 meanwhile.... hopefully we will see them till the end of the year back in FRA !!!
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTÁ and/or BARRANQUILLA and/or CARTAGENA-MIAMI 7 weekly frequencies, 3rd and 4th freedom rights..
CALI and/or MEDELLÍN-MIAMI 5 weekly frequencies 3rd. y 4th freedom.

Great news, but there aren't many open US-Colombia frequencies for US carriers.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
Bogotá-Fort Lauderdale-Bogotá with 7 weekly frequencies
Pereira-Cartagena-Fort Lauderdale-Cartagena-Pereira with 3 weekly frequencies
Bucaramanga-Cartagena-Fort Lauderdale-Cartagena-Bucaramanga with 2 weekly frequencies

More great news. But, again, where will the frequencies come from? There aren't many open US-Colombia frequencies for US carriers.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
PEREIRA-CARTAGENA-MIAMI 2 weekly frequencies on MD-83

More good news. This would make the route daily.
a.
 
Summa767
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Great news, but there aren't many open US-Colombia frequencies for US carriers.

I am assuming that 14 new frequencies will be available imminently for carriers of each country, as there has been a letter exchange between DOT and Aerocivil. Hence the rush by Aires and AeroRepublica to try to get them.

Aerocivil will have to make a decision, and not all of these applications will be granted. I expect that AV would be allowed its modest expansion to existing services. Aires's will be delayed and AeroRepublica would get 7, with the remaining postponed until the bilateral with US is further expanded.

[Edited 2007-06-16 18:03:21]
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:25 am

Well if Aires get those services I will be very happy. Having more options to travel from MIA/FLL to BOG would be awesome for me  Smile  Smile  Smile
But I agree with SUMMA767, let's wait and see.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
adriaticus
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-PANAMA-MONTERREY(MEXICO) 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom
MEDELLIN-PANAMA-MEXICO CITY 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom

IF this ever becomes a reality, sounds like Copa will finally get around to offering a PTY-MTY run through codesharing with AeroRepública... And ALSO will circumvent the recent rejection of a third PTY-MEX frequency, by using the same strategy. Hmmm. Smart.

I wonder how MX and the Mexican Ministry of Transportation will react this time...

__Ad.
A300/18/19/20/21/30/32/88 An24 ATR42/72 B721/2 B732/3/G/8/MAX B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 B788/9 Concorde DC8/9/10 E45/70/75/90/95 IL62/86 MD10-30/11 SA340/2000 TU134/154
 
Summa767
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 5):
IF this ever becomes a reality, sounds like Copa will finally get around to offering a PTY-MTY run through codesharing with AeroRepública... And ALSO will circumvent the recent rejection of a third PTY-MEX frequency, by using the same strategy. Hmmm. Smart.

Thanks Adriaticus for shining light on what is behind this application. It certainly had Copa written all over it, but I did not realise that it was a cunning way to get around the Panama-Mexico restrictions! Smart try indeed.

I am not sure how far they will get with 5th freedom -(and they know it, as they state "up to 5th freedom" in the application)
Funnily enough, the Panama-Colombia bilateral was amended a couple of months ago to suit Copa: Fifth freedom for "colombian airlines" anywhere in central or north america!
Not so easy on the mexican side that requires "agreement on both contracting parts" for operation with 5th freedom rights.
I guess one of the contracting parts is Mexico   I would not be hopeful of rights being granted, not least as I don't see Mexican airlines wanting reciprocity.

[Edited 2007-06-16 23:56:29]
 
civilav
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 5):
I wonder how MX and the Mexican Ministry of Transportation will react this time...

I had exactly the same opinion though, technically, Aerorepublica is a Colombian carrier.... Very cunning indeed on the part of COPA !!
I guess the Mexican authorities have very little room for manouvre here from a strictly technical and political standpoint.

Greetings from Cancun !
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-PARIS 5 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-LONDON 3 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-FRANKFURT 4 weekly frequencies

Summa, very nice news ! Good to see AV with new services to Europe.
Also some interesting additional and new services to Latin America and MIA !

Do Colombian authorities use to refuse such requests ?

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:04 am

after the second look... why they applyd for CDG the 5 x flights... didnt it make more sense to apply 5xFRA / 4xLHR-LGW-STN / 3xCDG as CDG gets already a daily flight by AF?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
XA744
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-PANAMA-MONTERREY(MEXICO) 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom
MEDELLIN-PANAMA-MEXICO CITY 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom

Uyyy, if granted, a real war is to commence !!!

I don´t know, I always thought the Colombia-Mexico bilateral had only one designated carrier per country. Would like to check about this.

Putting technicalities aside, can MDE alone support a 7 x to MEX and BOG 7 X to MTY, even without PTY rights ?

This whole thing is getting very interesting !!!

Best regards

Edited for typo, kindly excuse me.

[Edited 2007-06-17 01:23:48]
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
Summa767
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:08 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
Also some interesting additional and new services to Latin America and MIA !

Do Colombian authorities use to refuse such requests ?

Most requests are granted. There is a very clear policy for domestic routes, and international ones are guided by the bilateral treaties, so if the rights are available, they will be allocated.
At the public audience the legal arguments will be heard as well as any objections from interested parties (usually the competing airlines!). A case comes to mind where a foreign cargo carrier application was postponed (even though the rights were available) until further investigation of claims by a colombian cargo airline that had been denied available entry reciprocal rights.
The outcome has to be made known 5 days working days after the meeting.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 10):
I don´t know, I always thought the Colombia-Mexico bilateral had only one designated carrier per country. Would like to check about this.

Just checked this out, and it is restricted t one carrier from each country per city pair.
So appropriately enough, MDE-MEX is not being used, nor is MTY-BOG.

Now, will they work even if there are no PTY rights? I will be glad if they try! MX has wanted to start MEX-MDE (maybe it will still) so it has fair prospects. As for MTY-BOG, I could not guess, but again, would be good to see it tried.
Non-stops by MX might well kill them, though.
 
LIPZ
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:20 pm

Nice to see AV growing in Europe!
 
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OA260
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:36 pm

I would love to see AV back in London again. Hopefully it will connect with the ADZ flight.
 
laca773
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:58 pm

I'm happy to hear AV wants to add two additional frequencies on their BOG-LAX-BOG flights! They must be doing well on it. So if I'm correct, this will bring their total weekly frequencies to 5? Will we be seeing more of 762/752 mix with the new increases (if approved).
Thanks for yoru help.
LACA773
 
Southamerica
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:19 am

Copa has a history of getting around bilaterals [legally]. They always seem to read the small letters in the bottom of every contract that nobody else does, and it truly works!.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
MEDELLÍN-SANTA MARTA-MEDELLÍN 7 weekly frequencies

Nice to see Aerorepublica interested in resuming this one. Avianca's only daily F-50 is just not enough.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Hopefully it will connect with the ADZ flight.

It probably will. Avianca's second daily BOG-ADZ flight departs at 1600, late enough.


SA.
 
flytuitravel
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:49 am

Good to see AV are coming back to London. I love their new livery. Also, anyone know why they stopped flying to LON?


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
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ghost77
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting XA744 (Reply 10):
This whole thing is getting very interesting !!!

Indeed!!! Very interesting.. what a reaction from Copa... just nice!!! Very nice... as for AV, good to see LON/CDG and FRA back. Amazing how AM and MX ignore LON/FRA as well as Italy!!!
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 11):
Most requests are granted. There is a very clear policy for domestic routes, and international ones are guided by the bilateral treaties, so if the rights are available, they will be allocated.
At the public audience the legal arguments will be heard as well as any objections from interested parties (usually the competing airlines!). A case comes to mind where a foreign cargo carrier application was postponed (even though the rights were available) until further investigation of claims by a colombian cargo airline that had been denied available entry reciprocal rights.
The outcome has to be made known 5 days working days after the meeting.

Thanks for the explanation, very informative. Lets wait for the outcoming of such meeting and expect all good services can be approved and begin as soon as possible.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-PANAMA-MONTERREY(MEXICO) 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom
MEDELLIN-PANAMA-MEXICO CITY 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom

This is great! I guess CM will codeshare in the PTY-MTY-PTY sector, thus they will be able to sell MTY as a Copa destination!

This will be just great. I will avoid MEX on my way to MTY  Smile

When will this flight start?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
Avianca
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19):
When will this flight start?

so far they only requeste the rights to operate the route.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Summa767
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 9):
after the second look... why they applyd for CDG the 5 x flights... didnt it make more sense to apply 5xFRA / 4xLHR-LGW-STN / 3xCDG as CDG gets already a daily flight by AF?

Just checked the agreements, and only 3 weekly flights are allowed for Colombian carriers to Germany and vice-versa. 7 to France and 4 to the UK. So that guides AV application. I guess that the aim later on would be to make all daily. That might have to wait till 2010 or so, I guess.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19):
When will this flight start?

If granted with 5th freedom, I would guess it would happen soon.

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 16):
Good to see AV are coming back to London. I love their new livery. Also, anyone know why they stopped flying to LON?

AV hit a bit of a bad patch back in 2001 that led to it merging with Aces (a very well respected colombian carrier), going into bankrupcy protection in the US, letting some planes go and concentrating on its core routes. It emerged refreshed. Colombian economy is now growing fast, international air traffic is going up by 15% or so, so the outlook is good.
 
cessnalady
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 5):
sounds like Copa will finally get around to offering a PTY-MTY run through codesharing with AeroRepública... And ALSO will circumvent the recent rejection of a third PTY-MEX frequency, by using the same strategy. Hmmm. Smart.



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
It certainly had Copa written all over it, but I did not realise that it was a cunning way to get around the Panama-Mexico restrictions! Smart try indeed



Quoting Civilav (Reply 7):
I had exactly the same opinion though, technically, Aerorepublica is a Colombian carrier.... Very cunning indeed on the part of COPA !!
I guess the Mexican authorities have very little room for manouvre here from a strictly technical and political standpoint.



Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 15):
Copa has a history of getting around bilaterals [legally].



Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19):
I guess CM will codeshare in the PTY-MTY-PTY sector

It all signals CM will get a run for the money it pays its lawyers!!

Marie
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 21):
If granted with 5th freedom, I would guess it would happen soon.

What kind of equipment can we expect? MD8X or E-Jet?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
2travel2know
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:19 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 23):
What kind of equipment can we expect? MD8X or E-Jet?

My guess would be E190, but remember that P5 E190 are full economy. As of why P5 BOG-PTY-MTY and not CM PTY-MTY, I would think is because CM doesn't have enough own E190 or maybe even Panamanian crews ready to fly that destination themselves.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
The AV proposed European routes have been expected, but when we will see them, is another matter. I don't see how they can add 14 long haul routes with the current 767s that they specify.
The A330s won't be coming in until late next year, but then why apply for these routes now?

Good point Juan. The only way I can see these routes happening before the arrival of the A332s is if AV cuts widebody service to some of its current destinations... like MEX. Then again, does AV have sufficient 752s to do something like this?

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-PANAMA-MONTERREY(MEXICO) 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom
MEDELLIN-PANAMA-MEXICO CITY 7 weekly frequencies. Up to 5th freedom

It is very interesting that Aerorepública is applying for authority to fly to Mexico via PTY. Like the other Mexicans have rightly said, the stopover in PTY will allow CM to actually increase capacity to Mexico. A MTY-PTY flight was very much needed. I wonder why AM and MX have not tried flights to Central and South America from MTY... this should serve as a wake up call.

By the way, given that Aerorepública has CM as a shareholder and offers the OnePass program to its frequent flyers, does anybody think Aerorepública could also become an associate member of SkyTeam in the near future?
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
Southamerica
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
Then again, does AV have sufficient 752s to do something like this?

Simple answer: No. The 757 rotation schedule is already tight as it is, and allows very little flexibility as several 757-routes are non-BOG (e.g. MDE-MIA, CLO-MIA).


SA.
 
Summa767
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 26):
Simple answer: No. The 757 rotation schedule is already tight as it is, and allows very little flexibility as several 757-routes are non-BOG (e.g. MDE-MIA, CLO-MIA).

Indeed.

So the option that I can envisage if these new services will start before the A330s arrive, is that OceanAir's 767s will be used on some of AV current routes, i.e, BOG-GRU, and BOG-LAX, relieving some of AV's own 767s so it can add european frequencies. Is this also why AV applied for extra LAX freqs too?

Does anybody know what is the status of OceanAir's 767s? Will there be a second one added for sure?
The latest I heard was that MEX would start in September, and LAX at the end of the year.

One of OceanAir's 767 was all ready to fly in GIG. There was a second 767 in Marana, registered to Conviasa which OceanAir was hopeful of getting. But did they?
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 27):
Does anybody know what is the status of OceanAir's 767s? Will there be a second one added for sure?
The latest I heard was that MEX would start in September, and LAX at the end of the year.

One of OceanAir's 767 was all ready to fly in GIG. There was a second 767 in Marana, registered to Conviasa which OceanAir was hopeful of getting. But did they?

Well, CH Aviation shows O6 with 2 767s:

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/airlinepage.php?code1=ONE
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 14):
I'm happy to hear AV wants to add two additional frequencies on their BOG-LAX-BOG flights! They must be doing well on it.

Year to date AV's load factor has been 74%. Not spectacular, however quite reasonable for the relatively new route.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FCKC
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:36 am

Nice to hear AV is back at Paris.
One of the oldest airline at Paris , having begunn flights there with............Lockheed Constellation !
Their so wonderful orange 747s at CDG is still a great souvenir in my memory.
Can't wait to see their A330 !
 
MAH4546
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 29):
Year to date AV's load factor has been 74%. Not spectacular, however quite reasonable for the relatively new route.

That is more than reasonable. That is what it should be at. Most US-Latin America flights average in the 65-70% range in terms of LFs.
a.
 
Southamerica
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
Most US-Latin America flights average in the 65-70% range in terms of LFs.

Not only that, but Avianca's entire international network averaged [coincidentally] a 74% load-factor for 2006. That means that BOG-LAX was not off the mark.


SA.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
AIRES

Very surprising, quite ambitious, BTW.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-PARIS 5 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-LONDON 3 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-FRANKFURT 4 weekly frequencies

Finally, it was just a matter of time.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 10):
Putting technicalities aside, can MDE alone support a 7 x to MEX and BOG 7 X to MTY, even without PTY rights ?

Probably not. MDE would proably support a 2x weekly to MEX (even maybe not) and BOG wouldn´t support anything outside of MEX and CUN.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
Good point Juan. The only way I can see these routes happening before the arrival of the A332s is if AV cuts widebody service to some of its current destinations... like MEX. Then again, does AV have sufficient 752s to do something like this?

Well, remeber the 3 A320s that are coming to the fleet soon. These could esaily replace the 757s on Colombia-South florida and BOG-MEX, PTY, UIO, LIM and CCS sectors. That would free up 3 of the 757s, which could free up the 3 767s that are flying non-intercontinatal and there you go.

BTW, i just returned from El Peñon in Girardot, and when entering the city by road, i could swear i saw an Airbus in AV colours landing in El Dorado, did they arrive or is it me and my obsession with the new fleet??
 
laca773
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 29):
Year to date AV's load factor has been 74%. Not spectacular, however quite reasonable for the relatively new route.

Thanks for answering my question Laxintl. I apreciate it. it sounds like they are doing great especially since they only have three weekly RTs. Since they will be adding a couple of additional frequencies, will they continue to use the 762 for the most part with a 752 added in here and there?

When AV starts to receive their Airbuses, will they start flying them to LAX or will it continue being a Boeing station?

LACA773
 
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757MDE
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:05 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
AEROREPUBLICA

Let's see how AV reacts... it's F-50 route which used to be the only one MDE - SMR was sort of expensive.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
AIRES

To be operated with 3rd and 4th freedom rights on MD-80 series and/or B737-700 and/or A319

This totally got me off base!. I had really thought that Aires wouldn't want any Airplane other than the Dash-8 in a long time. This ambitious plan sounds good to me and I would love to see a 737NG in Aires colors. If they manage those routes like they've always done (except for CCS but that's another story) they could be really succesful in my opinion.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
AVIANCA

New services
Third and fourth freedom rights on BOEING 767-200ER

BOGOTA-PARIS 5 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-LONDON 3 weekly frequencies
BOGOTA-FRANKFURT 4 weekly frequencies

Finally... we knew it was going to happen but it seemed to take forever for them to ask for frequencies!.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-LOS ANGELES 2 weekly frequencies on Boeing 767-200 and Boeing 757
PEREIRA-BARRANQUILLA-NEW YORK 2 weekly frequencies on MD-83
PEREIRA-CARTAGENA-MIAMI 2 weekly frequencies on MD-83

That means those routes, initially doubtful (specially the BAQ - JFK one) are doing good. Very well!.

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 5):
And ALSO will circumvent the recent rejection of a third PTY-MEX frequency

Yes, they like to do that kind of things. Since they couldn't get a second daily to MDE which they had been wishing for long time one of the first things they did when they acquired AeroRepública was to open a MDE - PTY flight with them. Not that I complain...

Quoting XA744 (Reply 10):
Putting technicalities aside, can MDE alone support a 7 x to MEX

7x to MEX... for starters it'd have to be less. But we all know it's designed to open a new PTY - MEX frequency and maybe another MDE - PTY altogether. I think there could be interesting traffic to MEX nonetheless.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 11):
MX has wanted to start MEX-MDE (maybe it will still)

Didn't have a clue about this... have more details?

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 16):
Good to see AV are coming back to London. I love their new livery. Also, anyone know why they stopped flying to LON?

They were in pretty bad financial shape and the money the got for the slots was urgently needed by the time. Now things are different both for Avianca and for Colombia itself, and sadly, BA flies to BOG no more since February 6th 2005.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 27):
So the option that I can envisage if these new services will start before the A330s arrive, is that OceanAir's 767s will be used on some of AV current routes

It's either that... or that they begin a crazy 767 shopping spree like Varig.
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
Summa767
Topic Author
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 33):
Well, remeber the 3 A320s that are coming to the fleet soon. These could esaily replace the 757s on Colombia-South florida and BOG-MEX, PTY, UIO, LIM and CCS sectors. That would free up 3 of the 757s, which could free up the 3 767s that are flying non-intercontinatal and there you go.

This could be. I just wonder when it is that the leased A320s will be with AV. We know that 2 A319s will be coming to AV in March and April next year, but not sure if these are part of the purchased lot, or the leased ones.
 
planeguy
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:53 pm

Any idea which LON airport they'll be serving? Would they be able to acquire LHR slots again? It's nice to see AV becoming a strong player in LatAm. Now that they're upgrading their fleet and adding more destinations do they plan to join an alliance? I'm surprised that they haven't been approached.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:41 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTÁ-SAN JOSÉ(COSTA RICA) 7 weekly frequencies

Nice! Though I'd still like to see MM or even AV make a comeback to SJO.  Wink

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-LONDON 3 weekly frequencies

Which London airport would AV serve? Acquiring prime LHR slots will be very difficult, if they do decide to start flights to LHR.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOGOTA-FRANKFURT 4 weekly frequencies

It would be great if AV does start flights to FRA. It would reestablish the nonstop link between Germany and Colombia that was ended when LH pulled out.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:21 pm

Here's an article on Colombia's El Tiempo on this issue.

http://www.eltiempo.com/economia/200...ULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR-3609626.html

(Only in spanish, sorry).


JAAH

edit. spelling
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
Summa767
Topic Author
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 39):
Here's an article on Colombia's El Tiempo on this issue.

The novel part for me in this article is the assumption on the colombian side that there are 14 unused frequencies on the US side. We know that AA has already got (or claim) posession of them, even if they will not start using them until 13th December.

I heard elsewhere that Aerocivil is not willing to increase the frequencies straight away as proposed in a letter by DOT, but rather after the renegociation of the treaty that is currently taking place, but would probably not come into force until 30th September at the earliest.

Aerocivil says that the fact that there are unused frequencies today, means that the market is well served, and that it would be entirely up to the US DOT to distribute them differently if it deemed it necessary.

It is interesting to know, though, that NK will fly to CTG (where it can fly unlimited charters) if it has no joy with BAQ and BOG.
With a bit of patience they should get some regular frequencies, but I would like to see them in CTG to start off with.
 
danimarroquin
Posts: 252
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:38 am

I still don't get it why airlines don'task for MCO . The colombian comunity is huge here in orlando
 
svenvdm
Posts: 199
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:27 pm

Quote:
The outcome will be made public within 5 working days after that.

Those five working days are over. Which routes were approved and when will they start?
 
pzurita1
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:16 am

Summa767,
So, any update about these new routes?

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2029
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 43):
So, any update about these new routes?

Finally some news:

Roughly translated on Babelfish (No time to review it, sorry   ) but it will help our English speaking friends to get the idea at least:

They approve seven routes to AIRES to fly to E.U.


After several years of proceedings and requests, the tolimense aerial company will incursion in American territory. The illusion of a group of visionaries of the ' Tolima grandé to have an airline to connect itself with Bogota, will extend its borders after 25 years of operation and as of the next year it will arrive at Fort Lauderdale, the United States. Thus it will announce the Civil Aeronautics in the next hours, after which the Group Evaluador de Proyectos Aerocomerciales, Gepa, assigned to seven weekly frequencies to the airline Aires and four to the Avianca company. Aero Republic, did not run with the same luck of its competitors and will have to hope that the bilateral agreement of commercial airworthiness is opened, with which Colombia and the United States would have 19 additional frequencies. So far, Aires work in the search of an airplane Boeing a 737-700 or Airbus 319, to be able to operate a daily flight between Bogota and Fort Lauderdale. The idea of the company is that in six months or before it can initiate the operation to the United States. The Secretary General of Aires, Erika Zarante, indicated that they will ask for 7 frequencies more in the route Bogota-Fort Lauderdale and three weekly flights to operate Pereira-Cartagena-Fort Lauderdale more. Also they hope to have two weekly frequencies from Bucaramanga to Fort Lauderdale. For it the company would look for an additional airplane of the same characteristics of the first. Airs at the moment have a fleet of 13 Dash-8 airplanes and December hopes to count on three airships more of the same type and the airplane to operate to the United States, which will be rented. In agreement with Erika Zarante, the prices of tiquetes that would introduce in this international route would be a 60 percent below the market, that is to say, between 300 and 350 dollars.

In the meantime Avianca, that no longer will be only one in the flights to the United States, will have four flights more to the North American market. Avianca that had asked for six frequencies, was approved him four. The company had asked for two flights between Bogota and Los Angeles, of which they approved one to them. In the Pereira-Cartagena-Miami route the two frequencies were approved him asked for. In the route Pereira-Barranquilla-Nueva York they approved one of the two asked for. Meanwhile, Aero Republic, had asked for seven frequencies in the Bogota route and/or Barranquilla and/or Cali-Miami and return and five flights in the route Cali and/or Medellín-Miami and return, will have to hope until the 30 of September to see if it will be able to obtain the 12 asked for frequencies.

By the North American side, American Airlines was designated by the Department of Transport of the United States to assume the 14 frequencies available. In agreement with Jose Maria Giraldo, chief of a main directorate of sales in Colombia, from the 13 of December will initiate operations with the Barranquilla-Miami route. The presentation of this flight will become the next days in the capital of the Atlantic.

In the meantime Delta Air Lines, that it had asked for to be the designated line to accede to the 14 frequencies available will have to hope that the bilateral agreement is opened to have routes between Medellín-Atlanta.

As opposed to the possibility that Spirit Airlines comes to Colombia, the director of the Aerocivil, Fernando Sanclemente explained that until yesterday he had not received any type of request. The civil employee indicated that just as the other companies will have to hope to that the bilateral agreement between countries negotiates both. BILATERAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN E.U. and COLOMBIA DARIA MAS FREQUENCIES the National Government is inviting to States to both extend the bilateral agreement of commercial airworthiness in 19 additional frequencies for each one of countries. This would allow the Aerocivil to take care of requests of the national operators to take care of the American market of 12 weekly frequencies by the side of Aero Republic, 12 by the Aires side and six by the side of Avianca. That is to say, to the 11 frequencies that obtained Aires and Avianca, which would be added to him 19 that would be opened, of 12 would correspond to Aero Republic, two of Avianca and five of Aires. In the next days the answer will be due to know the Department of Transport of the United States, with which the renegotiation would begin in August and would conclude before the 30 of September, when it overcomes the agreement between the two nations.


Source in Spanish: http://www.portafolio.com.co/port_se...B-NOTA_INTERIOR_PORTA-3579894.html

[Edited 2007-07-19 15:25:02]
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:51 pm

If Aires already flies Dash aircraft, wouldn't be best for them to get CRJ900/700 from the same Dash Bombardier supplier?? But maybe a CRJ900/700 won't be able to take off from BOG enroute to FLL..  Sad
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
a300aa
Posts: 298
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:50 pm

I like that Aires were granted with those frequencies . Even Its going to take time to certify the Airline to fly to the USA, and to find a new airplane , hopefully they will start the new route.

Flights are completely full to/from USA , AA will change equipment from BOG to MIA on SEP to 2 A 300, adding more seats to the market.

Hopefully we will see also AA in PEI soon.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:05 pm

Latest I have been hearing is that the Colombian government is willing to add twenty eight weekly US-Colombia frequencies (14 to US carriers and 14 to Colombian carriers), but the frequencies would be restricted to FLL and MIA. This would allow Spirit to add Colombia and AeroRepublic to add Miami. I do think that US/Colombia will expand by 28 weekly flights, but I doubt that there will be a restriction to MIA/FLL.
a.
 
Summa767
Topic Author
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 47):
do think that US/Colombia will expand by 28 weekly flights, but I doubt that there will be a restriction to MIA/FLL.

last week, the colombian government issued an update on commercial aviation policy in which it states that it has asked the american goverment to increase by 19 the frequencies for each side. It does not mention city specifics. Indeed, I would be surprised if it that were the case, as they are interested in better connectivity to the US generally, and not just Florida. Although the 19 frequencies correspond to the ones that colombian airlines applied for and that it could not allocate (and that are indeed mainly for Florida, and one outstanding one to LAX)

An important change, was to drop the "floor" on fares, so now airlines can go as low as they like, although there continues to be a ceiling.

It also announced that BAQ would be a "open skies" city, just like CTG, SMR and ADZ, as it wants to want to make it a tourist airport, especially to channel traffic to Santa Marta and its beaches, just over an hour drive away.Different from SMR, BAQ has a long and wide runway, and better facilities that SMR
But I don't know, is what specific restriction a "charter" destination carries. There is no limit of frequencies, but I wonder if tickets can only be sold in the country of origin..
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombia: New Routes. LON/PAR/FRA Included

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 48):
An important change, was to drop the "floor" on fares, so now airlines can go as low as they like, although there continues to be a ceiling.

This only applies for domestic routes.

What about the europe frequencies? The media didn´t seem to bother about those...

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