Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jimyvr
Topic Author
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:26 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/envir...81306620070619?feedType=RSS&rpc=22

Airbus is now going green by saying the A380 is the one to save the planet over pollution problem. According to report from Reuters.

Quote:
LE BOURGET, France (Reuters) - Airbus attempted a green-friendly makeover of its A380 superjumbo on Tuesday, saying the world's largest airliner could save the planet......

.....the company's sales chief John Leahy went a step further, heading one section of a presentation: "Saving the planet, one A380 at a time."


[Edited 2007-06-19 18:37:05]
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
flyorski
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:23 am

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:28 am

Not really surprising, they will use any sales technique they can to sell the plane.

I wonder if this could (even hypothetically) actually have any effect on sales?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27450
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:30 am

Maybe they'll adapt it to fly on "Jet-B" (bio-kerosene) and then VS will stop deferring their order.

[Edited 2007-06-19 18:30:53]
 
MCIGuy
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:31 am

Oh man, marketing hype to extreme. Talk about playing to the layperson!  Silly
Can't say I blame them though, it's there so they had to take it.  Smile
Airliners.net Moderator Team
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:31 am

That is a double-bladed sword.

Positive: The A380 needs less fuel and produces less CO² per pax and km than any other aircraft in the world. Therefore it is reducing emissions.

Negative: The A380 makes flying also a lot cheaper, which means that more pax-km will be flown, resulting rather into more than less CO² emissions.

I think it takes more to "save the planet". SRB with his plans to power jets with bio fuel might be a better approach. Although bio fuels are the not the holy grail that some people seem to think. They have emissions, too.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:32 am

Thank God for the A380, now I can stop worrying and buy that 7mpg SUV Ive wanted.
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:35 am

I doubt the masses of people who are not flying yet now but will be flying in the future owing to the A380 extra-capacity will help to solve our dependence on long-distance travel... More bulls**t, you die....  redflag  to you Airbus.
When I doubt... go running!
 
AirbusA6
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:53 am

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:38 am

Well by not being in service for the last 2 years the A380 has been very good for the planet indeed!

A bit like the 'save the planet' Honda F1 car that's saving the planet by going slower than it's rivals  Wink

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
I think it takes more to "save the planet". SRB with his plans to power jets with bio fuel might be a better approach. Although bio fuels are the not the holy grail that some people seem to think. They have emissions, too.

Hmm, burning more rain forest down to grow bio fuel (emitting vast amounts of CO2 in the process) makes normal fuel look rather environmentally attractive...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
Jaws707
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:40 am

One way it may actually help the planet is if airlines reduce flights on some routes. For example lets say an airline flies a route 10X weekly between 777's and A330's, well if they got the A380 they would be able to reduce the flights to 7X weekly and suffer no drop in capacity. You would now have 3 less flights, which cuts down on pollution.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9307
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Airbus: Our A380 Will Save The Planet

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:41 am

This deserves an:

Big version: Width: 438 Height: 400 File size: 41kb


There is absolutely no credibility to such a claim. Commercial aviation is responsible for about 1% of green house gas emissions, which I consider insignificant compared to other sectors. Retiring every airliner in service would be inconsequential. Adopting the A380 would make zero difference, and could possibly lead to more fuel consumption and pollution.

Perhaps Airbus' new strategy is to lobby for frivilous regulation that will force airlines into VLA.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 7):
Hmm, burning more rain forest down to grow bio fuel (emitting vast amounts of CO2 in the process) makes normal fuel look rather environmentally attractive...

That is a little extreme. But the growing of plants for biofuel, transportation of that etc., isn't very eco-friendly either.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
eatmybologna
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
Positive: The A380 needs less fuel and produces less CO² per pax and km than any other aircraft in the world. Therefore it is reducing emissions.

Perhaps a triple bladed sword, if there's such an animal.

The A380 won't have the best CO2 emissions and lowest fuel consumption per passenger if it's is not full. In fact, it could produce more than the amount from an older 747-400 on a per passenger rate.

E-M-B
Isn't knowledge more than just the acquisition of information? Shouldn't the acquired information be correct?
 
KL577
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:21 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 7):
Hmm, burning more rain forest down to grow bio fuel (emitting vast amounts of CO2 in the process) makes normal fuel look rather environmentally attractive...

That is a little extreme. But the growing of plants for biofuel, transportation of that etc., isn't very eco-friendly either.

That's not extreme, that's what is actually happening in many parts of the world (Brazil, Malaysia to name a few). Multiple studies are pointing to the huge threat for remaining patches of undisturbed areas caused by promoting bio-fuels.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11201
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:54 am

Well, if the A-380 claim by Airbus is true, how many times has the B-747 already saved the planet?
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 4196
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 11):
Perhaps a triple bladed sword, if there's such an animal

Animal? Well, you have strange animals in France, don't you  Wink
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Big version: Width: 157 Height: 204 File size: 7kb
Yea, yea, The A380 will replace the hole in the ozone. Wait, it'll save us all from lung cancer, yea, that's the ticket!!
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15104
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:34 am

This is just not true unless everyone lives in these large hub cities you are connecting directly. As soon as you fly the feeder leg to the hub, the A380 becomes a green killer. 787s and A350s offer the possibility to connect medium markets with large markets efficiently, and medium-large market flying is the bulk of actual flying done around the world.

The only environmental benefit the A380 offers is to cut down on frequencies over medium to long range trunk routes, and that's a great reason to buy and fly them.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
That is a little extreme. But the growing of plants for biofuel, transportation of that etc., isn't very eco-friendly either.

It would be an environmental disaster to switch over to bio-fuels. Unmitigated disaster, from increased pesticides to loss of forest and topsoil, to the fact that currently it takes more energy to make bio-fuel than you get from it (though this may change over time).
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 7):
Hmm, burning more rain forest down to grow bio fuel (emitting vast amounts of CO2 in the process) makes normal fuel look rather environmentally attractive...

Bio fuels are environmentally, economically and ultimately politically worse than buring fossile fuels:

Forrest destruction to grown more corn
Rising food prices in the 3rd world
political instability in the 3rd world
ultimately massive immigration fro mteh 3 to 1st world

all of this just to placate special interestes like ADM. I have never seen US politics held hostage to special interest groups who have their own selfish interest diametrically opposed to the national interest like we have today.
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:33 am

I'm stealing this point from someone on another forum (apologies, brother. You know who you are!), but isn't there more "greenness" in flying point-to-point in a nice new 787 or A350 than to go hub-to-hub in a nice new A380, assuming there are connecting flights involved in the hubs?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
MCIGuy
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
Bio fuels are environmentally, economically and ultimately politically worse than buring fossile fuels:

Forrest destruction to grown more corn
Rising food prices in the 3rd world
political instability in the 3rd world
ultimately massive immigration fro mteh 3 to 1st world

VERY well said! Biofuels are nothing more than a buzzword and a tool for political points from the uninformed.
Airliners.net Moderator Team
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
Positive: The A380 needs less fuel and produces less CO?per pax and km than any other aircraft in the world. Therefore it is reducing emissions.

Here again Mr. Leahy is applying the marketing tactic to refer to the presently flying aircrafts, all of them are of relatively old design. He fails to say that any of the engines of the B748, B787 and most probably the still not existing one for the A350 is far more efficient, cleaner and most probably less noise than the A380's.

So, this seems morean argument NOT to buy the A380 !!

aminobwana
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 8):
One way it may actually help the planet is if airlines reduce flights on some routes.

Well not quite, if they keep the seat-count stable but replace older planes with A380s (in practice this would reduce flights, albeit by how much depends on the kind of plane being replaced, on average) then the per-seat emissions will decline.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
Bio fuels are environmentally, economically and ultimately politically worse than buring fossile fuels:

First-generation biofuels have their drawbacks, but it's not correct to say burning them is _worse_ than burning fossil fuels. Further-generation biofuels will have significantly better properties with regard to the environment and food production, but their ultimate impact depends on how they're used. An obvious point is that we'll have to burn less of them than we're burning fossil fuels now. This can be achieved by improving fuel economy in newer cars and ships (and aircraft), and not using them for power/heat generation.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15104
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:52 am

If you fly an A380 on a 5000nm and connect to a 1500nm route on an A330 lengthening your trip by 1000nm, have you saved any more fuel than flying directly on an A350? No. It's at best a wash...

It's only flying from hub to hub, where you are O&D both sides where the A380 wins, and this makes it valuable in that situation.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 19):
VERY well said! Biofuels are nothing more than a buzzword and a tool for political points from the uninformed.

I was just listening to a radio discussion about this, and one of the participants brought up an important question.

Would you rather import your oil or your food? Which is more a matter of national security? Which is more dangerous to go without or have rationing of?

The reason this is salient is that in the USA, for example, the price of corn has skyrocketed due to biofuels. And farmers are planting corn instead of wheat, soy, and vegetables. That has driven the prices of all food, including livestock which needs to be fed, up. One of the things America was always known for was inexpensive food, but the use of biofuels means we are burning our food instead of eating it, and then importing it from places with less environmental control. We've already seen food supplies intentionally poisoned by chinese sources looking to boost protein readings.

Ultimately, it's less expensive and less environmentally damaging to NOT use biofuels. But since big agribusiness profits from all of this hooplah, we will have it pushed on us...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:03 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
If you fly an A380 on a 5000nm and connect to a 1500nm route on an A330 lengthening your trip by 1000nm, have you saved any more fuel than flying directly on an A350? No. It's at best a wash...

It's only flying from hub to hub, where you are O&D both sides where the A380 wins, and this makes it valuable in that situation.

So you are agreeing with this post?

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 18):
I'm stealing this point from someone on another forum (apologies, brother. You know who you are!), but isn't there more "greenness" in flying point-to-point in a nice new 787 or A350 than to go hub-to-hub in a nice new A380, assuming there are connecting flights involved in the hubs?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:40 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
This deserves an:

O RLY

I thought this was all happening at Le Bourget...  Wink
 
JMV
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Tim

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
Bio fuels are environmentally, economically and ultimately politically worse than buring fossile fuels:

Forrest destruction to grown more corn
Rising food prices in the 3rd world
political instability in the 3rd world
ultimately massive immigration fro mteh 3 to 1st world

all of this just to placate special interestes like ADM. I have never seen US politics held hostage to special interest groups who have their own selfish interest diametrically opposed to the national interest like we have today.

You make some interesting points, but consider this as well...

Supply of non-renewable (i.e., fossil) fuels goes down (increased consumption in India, China), cost goes up.
Non-renewable fuel costs go up, the cost of food production goes up (fertilizer, transportation, refrigeration, etc. - assuming no one has pursued alternative, renewable fuels).
Cost of food production goes up, cost of food goes up.
Rising food prices...

While bio-fuels do have their drawbacks, they provide a renewable alternative. They shouldn't be viewed as the ultimate solution, nor should they be summarily dismissed as political trickery. They can be one of hopefully many viable fuel alternatives that ultimately reduce pollution and allow all nations, developed and developing, to be more energy self-sufficient.
Google begins where my brain ends! ©
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9307
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 24):
I thought this was all happening at Le Bourget...

Zing!  Wink

When I did a Google image search for that stupid bird, a few Orly pictures came up. But I couldn't think of anything clever to say!
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
.....the company's sales chief John Leahy went a step further, heading one section of a presentation: "Saving the planet, one A380 at a time."

VERY likely that this was an offhand and entirely facetious remark...not to be taken so seriously. fluffy 

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Maybe they'll adapt it to fly on "Jet-B" (bio-kerosene) and then VS will stop deferring their order.

Jet B-1 outside the USA. smile 

Joking aside, there actually was a Jet B; IIRC that's the commercial designation for JP-4...for those old enough to remember. old 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
6yjjk
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:40 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Tim

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 26):
Zing!

When I did a Google image search for that stupid bird, a few Orly pictures came up. But I couldn't think of anything clever to say!

Leave it to me to find the crap jokes  Smile And as for

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 15):
Yea, yea, The A380 will replace the hole in the ozone. Wait, it'll save us all from lung cancer, yea, that's the ticket!!

...When I used to work with a high-volume copier in a confined space, someone pointed out that the thing could well be cranking out enough ozone to be dangerous. So, if we fill an A380F with photocopiers and fly it around the ozone hole, we're sorted! It could photocopy Airbus propaganda leaflets and drop them out the back!  duck 
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
the A380 is the one to save the planet over pollution problem

That's got to be about the most absurd statement I've heard the spin doctors at Airbus say in the 3 years I've been on this forum.  Yeah sure  Yeah sure
One Nation Under God
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
all of this just to placate special interestes like ADM.

Amen! Biofuels are a lark, plug-in hybrids (and eventually plug-in only) are the way to go for vehicles. If aviation is only contributing 1-3% of global CO2 emissions, then we can switch all vehicles over and reduce a huge amount and then leave aviation alone.
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
This is just not true unless everyone lives in these large hub cities you are connecting directly.

I agree.

The only way Airbus could really entice customers more is if they propose the Trent 1000's, or the trent XWB's for the A380 as well. I know it sounds propostrous, though logically, because the engines are'nt that different from the 900's, its surelyt feasable, and that should surely attract more customers.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
lostturttle
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Tim

Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:02 am

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...0619173934.2ux5s3d8&show_article=1


"Attention hip hop stars and billionaires: the world's biggest airliner, the 73-metre-long (239-feet) Airbus A380 superjumbo, has been ordered by a mysterious buyer for use as a private jet.

The order sets new heights in the private plane sector, leaving the Learjet, which used to be the ultimate symbol of ostentatious air travel, in second class.

Airbus sales director John Leahy declined to say when or to where the jet would be delivered, but fitting the plane to the specification demanded from the buyer is expected to take more than a year.

"It will be for personal use for him and his entourage," Leahy told AFP on the sidelines of the Paris Air Show.

"I can't tell you who it is but he's not from Europe or the United States."

The buyer is likely to have paid over 300 million dollars (224 million euros) for the standard plane, according to the latest Airbus catalogue prices, but will then have customisation costs estimated at 50-150 million dollars.

Aage Duenhaupt, communications director for Lufthansa Technik, which converts large commercial aircraft into private jets, said most clients for private airliners came from the oil-rich Middle East.

"Buyers are rich individuals or governments and mostly situated in the Middle East," he told AFP."


Old news, I think but given Leahy's "green Quote" I wonder what the Carbon tax/ footprint will be to the owner?
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 30):
Amen! Biofuels are a lark, plug-in hybrids (and eventually plug-in only) are the way to go for vehicles

Even that isnt good enough, unless you generate the electricity via nuclear, solar,water or wind power..no point plugging in your car if the local utility is using oil from Saudi Arabia. Ultimately cars need to run on hydrogen and the Saudi Royal family and Amdenenutjob can eat sand.
 
norcal
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:44 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:14 am

The first group of scientists to unlock cheap and practical fusion will save our planet. That is the "miracle" technology that we need.
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:19 am

Two main sources of energy for the future:

Transport: Hydrogen.

General: Nuclear Fusion.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:26 am

Wow, Airbus is only one step away from the ultimate low in pandering... A380: Think of the Children!
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
douwd20
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 3:45 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 34):
The first group of scientists to unlock cheap and practical fusion will save our planet. That is the "miracle" technology that we need.

 checkmark 

Huph!! The ultimate way to save the planet is for humans to stop burning oil.
 
mustang304
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:35 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:07 am

Now wait a minute.

The planet doesn't need saving. I'm fairly sure the Earth will be around for a while. Maybe humans and animals won't but the planet will be. So it sounds like false advertising to me Big grin

Besides, 2012 will sort out humanity anyway.  Wink (if you believe in that type of thing)
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting Mustang304 (Reply 38):
2012

I'm not sure what your on about, though Isaac Newton predicted the next coming of Christ to be 2060 by decoding the bible.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 34):
The first group of scientists to unlock cheap and practical fusion will save our planet. That is the "miracle" technology that we need.

...its not too far away if all goes well.. Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 40):
its not too far away if all goes well

Indeed, they're already starting to build the massive chambers in france.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2734
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 36):
Wow, Airbus is only one step away from the ultimate low in pandering... A380: Think of the Children!

No no, you forgot the next step which is to start flying their workers around Europe in 727 to show just how bad small aircraft are for the endowment. If you don't do that your under the table funding of "concerned citizen" groups will not have the punch when they let loose "think of the children" on a inept media.
 
kiwiflyer791
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:49 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 33):
Even that isnt good enough, unless you generate the electricity via nuclear, solar,water or wind power..no point plugging in your car if the local utility is using oil from Saudi Arabia. Ultimately cars need to run on hydrogen and the Saudi Royal family and Amdenenutjob can eat sand.



Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 35):
Two main sources of energy for the future:

Transport: Hydrogen.

I am afriad the above statements show your lack of understanding of this subject! Hydrogen is not a fuel!

Quoting Douwd20 (Reply 37):
Huph!! The ultimate way to save the planet is for humans to stop burning oil.

I think the best thing said on this thread so far.

I believe Airbus will only shoot themselves in the foot with the quote given here! In Europe where the enviromentalists are the strongest, they are just better putting there heads down on this subject and getting on with business.

The environment will not be the biggest challenge for the A380; if oil production peaks within the next 10 years it will have a significantly more damaging affect.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9307
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 35):
Two main sources of energy for the future:

Transport: Hydrogen.



Quoting Kiwiflyer791 (Reply 43):
I am afriad the above statements show your lack of understanding of this subject! Hydrogen is not a fuel!

With all due respect, I would say you are both wrong. Hydrogen is not a source of energy in this context, but rather an energy storage medium. But as an engineer and a down to earth fellow, I think it's perfectly valid to call a chemical compound that stores energy a fuel.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
kiwiflyer791
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:49 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:35 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 44):
With all due respect, I would say you are both wrong. Hydrogen is not a source of energy in this context, but rather an energy storage medium. But as an engineer and a down to earth fellow, I think it's perfectly valid to call a chemical compound that stores energy a fuel.

Yes you are right; but the energy though comes from the fuel that goes into producing hydrogen in the first place, from what every means that may be, hydrogen is just the storage of that energy.
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:37 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 44):
Hydrogen is not a source of energy in this context, but rather an energy storage medium. But as an engineer and a down to earth fellow, I think it's perfectly valid to call a chemical compound that stores energy a fuel.

I agree it can be called a fuel, but as far as I know, to "manufacture" this fuel out of naturally existing Chemical combinations or mixtures it is necessary to invest a lot more of energy as this fuel can provide.

aminobwana
 
kiwiflyer791
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:49 pm

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 46):
I agree it can be called a fuel, but as far as I know, to "manufacture" this fuel out of naturally existing Chemical combinations or mixtures it is necessary to invest a lot more of energy as this fuel can provide.

aminobwana

Sorry you are wrong with this; it is a common misunderstanding. Hydrogen only stores energy, it does not produce energy and is therefore not a fuel. This is the same as electricity or batteries. The fuel is the energy that went into making these things in the first place.

In the case of hydrogen at the moment, there is an energy loss when you convert the energy; the reality is (if science does not solve this problem) you are better off using the energy from the fuel directly rather than converting it into hydrogen.
 
AvObserver
Posts: 2605
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:02 am

The bile in my throat threatens to erupt onto my keyboard. It's absurd to claim that a plane that will sell in relatively low numbers will make that much of a dent in CO2 emissions. Midsizers like the 787 and A350 will go a lot farther toward such a goal because a lot more people will be flying on them. While we expect Airbus AND Boeing to use almost any sort of marketing hyperbole to further sales, this one's more than a bit rich. It would be more credible in an A350 pitch but that airplane won't require grandiose claims to keep selling in big numbers. Like it or not, VLAs are likely to remain a relative niche market for some time, at least compared to long-range minijumbos like the A350. The A380 has a place in the future but a lesser one than the 350, whivh will probably become Airbus's bread-and-butter airplane once it's in full production. Airbus owes Boeing some gratitude for pointing the way out of its A380 profit doldrums and forcing it to create a more sensible airliner that should generate large and steady profits for many years.
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Airbus: A380 Will Save The Planet - 1 At A Time

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting Kiwiflyer791 (Reply 47):
Sorry you are wrong with this; it is a common misunderstanding. Hydrogen only stores energy, it does not produce energy and is therefore not a fuel. This is the same as electricity or batteries. The fuel is the energy that went into making these things in the first place.

In the case of hydrogen at the moment, there is an energy loss when you convert the energy; the reality is (if science does not solve this problem) you are better off using the energy from the fuel directly rather than converting it into hydrogen.

This is a dialectical problem. Coal or oil do not produce energy, the carbon and hydrogen within produce the enrgy by combining with the air oxygen.

If you forget that you cannot find free H2 in nature and must extract it previouly from a combination or mixture, Hydrogen itself is a fuel. As we both agree, this extraction and adequate storage needs more enregy as the H2 produces by burning.

Now, it is not generally correct that using directly oil instead using H2 as an intermediate fuel we are better of. This is so from the heat development point of view now so popular, but not always from the contamination side. If the H2 production is obtained centrally with hydraulic, nuclear and hopefully in the future fnuclear fusion energy, then the only contamination remaining is the CO2, eliminating the secondary residues of the oil.

cordially

aminobwana

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ADM94, atal17, B6WNQX, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Boeing1978, ClipperYankee, flight152, FLYKTPA, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], hoons90, jamesontheroad, justplanesmart, kpotennis, MaverickM11, njeinaz, RainerBoeing777, sagechan, Singapore 777, syan, tootallsd, ucdtim17, vhqpa, Wneast, YYZSpotter1991 and 281 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos