flyabr
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Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:47 am

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/116908.asp

i never get tired of hearing john foam at the mouth ...  Smile
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:09 am

As someone on a different forum mentioned, Leahy must have dirty pictures of every Airbus executive to still have a job these days. With market demand being what it is, there's no need for salesmen; the airplanes are selling themselves. Which raises the question, how can he get away by shooting his mouth off like this?

The CFRP barrel technique is an ultra-modern assembly practice that represents the first fundamental shift in aircraft production since aluminum became the primary ruling material of large aircraft more than half a century ago. If John Leahy is going to call them "old fashioned," he better have some damn impressive "new fashion." Skin on an aluminum frame? Nothing to see here people, move along.  Yeah sure
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
flyabr
Topic Author
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:20 am

it's really too bad that leahy soo often comes off like a used car salesman when he speaks to the press. airbus is a great company that deserves better... Sad
 
Shenzhen
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:22 am

Unfortunately for Airbus/Leahy, what comes out of their mouths these days provides little sway in what the Operators believe. Those days are long gone..........................

Cheers
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:37 am

I didn't even read the article, I just saw the title of the post and busted out laughing. Next thing you know, he'll say that if the A350 goes back to aluminum panels that it will be the most advanced thing to happen to aviation since the Wright Brothers!!
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):
As someone on a different forum mentioned, Leahy must have dirty pictures of every Airbus executive to still have a job these days.

He should have been fired long ago. There must be one other chief salesman in the world who could do his job better, without all the stupid comments. Out of 6 billion people, he can't be the best Airbus can find.

And again, part of his problem is not correctly interpreting what the customers want, not articulating to Airbus what they are asking for, and constantly trying to tell his customers what they need and why.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
zvezda
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:57 am

Wasn't Gallois saying the other day that Boeing shouldn't talk about the A350?
 
NAV20
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:58 am

Thanks for the link, FlyABR. This para. near the end is possibly the most interesting:-

"In recent days, Hazy said, Airbus has indicated a design change could be made without delaying the A350's entry into service in 2013."

Hazy doesn't make things like that up. Maybe he's convinced Gallois that more changes are needed? If so, stand by for the 'launch' of the 'all-new' A350XLB (*Extra Light Body"')?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
BOSSAN
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
If so, stand by for the 'launch' of the 'all-new' A350XLB (*Extra Light Body"')?

OK, I draw the line at aircraft names sounding like branding for American beer! ("Extra Light Body, no bitter aftertaste! Goes down smooth so you can get hammered faster!")
 
JTR
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:39 pm

I know that Leahy doesn't have any creditability with a subset of the A.net community, I wonder if he has any with the airlines.
 
azhobo
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:45 pm

Sorry, as much as i dislike leahy comments in the past. I have to disagree on this 'blurb'. This blurb was not to reporters where he was trying to make a statement. But it was to a potential client (from how i read the story) trying him to sway him to buy his product.

But for past PUBLIC comments, agreed can the man. Especially if it upsets airbus when Boeing makes benign public statements about airbus products.

HOBO
 
manni
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting JTR (Reply 15):
I know that Leahy doesn't have any creditability with a subset of the A.net community, I wonder if he has any with the airlines.

Let the sales speak for themselfes. Mr. Leahy keeps selling aircraft in big numbers despite the problems the company went trough. People might want to discredit his work but I suspect it has more to do with 'sour grapes' then with his actual comments.  yes 

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 8):
I didn't even read the article, I just saw the title of the post and busted out laughing.

Maybe you should have read the article. You'd have noticed that this is not a direct quote from Mr. Leahy. I'd take the comment by Mr. Hazy with a pinch of salt.

John Leahy, the Airbus sales chief, told me Tuesday that Boeing's design with the composite barrels is "old fashioned.''
 
B707321C
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:58 pm

I can't believe all your comments, please note that the artical was based on a quote from a customer, which quoted Leahy- pretty far from the orginal source and probably taken completely out of context. I think that Leahy probably meant something like Composite Barrels are not leading edge technology, but rather "bleeding edge" and has a long way to go before its refined and perfected. Boeing has a long way to go before they can prove that using Composite Barrels for commercial airline production can be cost effective in a mass production environment. I am sorry to say, but this technology might not prove to be the best, only time will tell.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Let the sales speak for themselfes. Mr. Leahy keeps selling aircraft in big numbers despite the problems the company went trough. People might want to discredit his work but I suspect it has more to do with 'sour grapes' then with his actual comments.  yes 

..no sour grapes...if he was such a "sensational salesman"..he would be selling those A345's and A346's...aside form the LH order, and a couple of "rag-tag" sales, those sales have been practically dead...

The A32X and A330's are phenomenal planes, bloody 'ell, even I could probably sell them.. biggrin 

Quoting B707321C (Reply 19):
I can't believe all your comments, please note that the artical was based on a quote from a customer, which quoted Leahy

..given MotorMouth's previous comments on the B787, I wouldn't be surprised at this new one...
"Up the Irons!"
 
M27
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Maybe you should have read the article. You'd have noticed that this is not a direct quote from Mr. Leahy. I'd take the comment by Mr. Hazy with a pinch of salt.



Quoting B707321C (Reply 19):
I can't believe all your comments, please note that the artical was based on a quote from a customer, which quoted Leahy- pretty far from the orginal source and probably taken completely out of context

I think this is a direct quote from Leahy to James Wallace!
 
airfrnt
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:18 pm

Okay, two of my pre-conference predictions have come true. Airbus as usual releases hordes of orders to make it look like they have moment, and Leahy has said something stupid. I am pretty sure Scott Carson rolled his eyes when he heard Leahy's comments, so that makes three.
 
JTR
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Let the sales speak for themselfes. Mr. Leahy keeps selling aircraft in big numbers despite the problems the company went trough. People might want to discredit his work but I suspect it has more to do with 'sour grapes' then with his actual comments.

At this point I wonder how much "selling" Airbus aircraft need, with the A380 and A350XWB excepted. I wonder if Leahy is still in the mindset he had when he first joined Airbus North America in 1985. Airbus isn't as small as it used to be, Boeing isn't as dominant. These are two business units of huge corporations ... I wonder if this 'partisan sniping' isn't a little juvenile for a company of EADS's standing.

Now, if he were the spokesman for a political party (especially the American ones), he'd probably sound much better than the drivel that comes out of campaign season.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 pm

This is a rad quote:

'He concedes that if an airline wants "7,000-8,000nm range", then the
7E7's longer legs give it an advantage, but Leahy sees this
requirement as niche because "99% of the market is for 6,000nm". But
he does not expect the 7E7's much-vaunted brand-awareness exterior
shape to win it any extra orders. "Not once did an airline say to
me: 'We'd buy your aircraft if it looked better'," says Leahy.' --
Flight International, 13-Jul-04.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
I didn't even read the article, I just saw the title of the post and busted out laughing.

Maybe you should have read the article. You'd have noticed that this is not a direct quote from Mr. Leahy. I'd take the comment by Mr. Hazy with a pinch of salt.

John Leahy, the Airbus sales chief, told me Tuesday that Boeing's design with the composite barrels is "old fashioned.''

Subtly in the English language. The ""'s around "old fashioned" means it was a verbatim quote.

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Let the sales speak for themselfes. Mr. Leahy keeps selling aircraft in big numbers despite the problems the company went trough. People might want to discredit his work but I suspect it has more to do with 'sour grapes' then with his actual comments. yes

When Airbus actually makes a large sale on Boeing territory, let me know. Selling to carriers that are in hoc to Airbus (US) and QR don't impress me.
 
MD-90
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
There must be one other chief salesman in the world who could do his job better, without all the stupid comments. Out of 6 billion people, he can't be the best Airbus can find.

He's just about the best aircraft salesman in the world. Why Airbus lets him do PR is beyond me.
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 22):
Airbus as usual releases hordes of orders to make it look like they have moment, and Leahy has said something stupid

Okay, and here is a prediction of mine: A large portion of a-netters don't read the links posted.

I challenge all the posters above to actually go to the link and read it. It is a BLOGGER, paraphrasing three words of SUH, which appear in turn to be a paraphrase of what Leahy said.

All this is, is sensationalist unscrutinized reporting. We have absolutely no idea what Leahy said. I challenge the OP to take the moral high ground, admit his or her error, change the title of this thread to something a little more factual.

Come on, guys - if you want to bash Airbus, choose something factual, like GE withdrawing from the A332F program, or their reluctance to engine the A350. Those are tangible and very serious issues, which can sink the A332F / A350 programs.

[Edited 2007-06-20 06:34:53]
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 24):
But he does not expect the 7E7's much-vaunted brand-awareness exterior shape to win it any extra orders. "Not once did an airline say to me: 'We'd buy your aircraft if it looked better

Seems he was spot on the money, since Boeing dumped that "brand awareness exterior shape"

On the range however, he totally missed that one! But then, so did Boeing with the 787-3.

[Edited 2007-06-20 06:37:50]
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
707lvr
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
Hazy doesn't make things like that up. Maybe he's convinced Gallois that more changes are needed?

I thought the purpose of this upcoming meeting was for Gallois to convince Hazy; that's what he thinks it is anyway.

Quoting M27 (Reply 21):
I think this is a direct quote from Leahy to James Wallace!

That's the way I interpreted it in the article as well, Leahy to Wallace, the reporter, not Hazy.

Anyway, I'm completely convinced that Mr. Leahy makes the comments he does simply to annoy Boeing and us [people reading and writing on a.net;] everyone else just shrugs them off.
 
manni
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 25):
Subtly in the English language. The ""'s around "old fashioned" means it was a verbatim quote.

I'm fully aware what those " stand for. Besides, it's not only the English language that use these to quote someone else. However using the ", doesn't mean that what is written between it is exactely what has been said. aviation journalists are notorious for reporting with 'flaws'.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 25):
When Airbus actually makes a large sale on Boeing territory, let me know. Selling to carriers that are in hoc to Airbus (US) and QR don't impress me.

Mr. Leahy's job is not to impress you.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 26):
He's just about the best aircraft salesman in the world. Why Airbus lets him do PR is beyond me.

Selling A320s during a period of rapid worldwide LCC growth is like selling ice water in the desert. It's not hard, because the A320, a plane he had nothing to do with designing, is a great plane. He's not inept as a salesman, so he's done a fine job selling a product everyone wants anyway.

But he's had far less luck selling A380s and A350s. Further, he's fumbled multiple time in the A350 arena. It is not just his job to sell what he is given and make the best of it. His job is also to tell Airbus what customers want. Randy did such a good job with this part with the 787, that his work shows. He was so involved, he only retired once he was sure everything was running smoothly.

With regard to the 787 v. A350, can you honestly tell me that Leahy has been on top of what customers have been asking for? Or that he's been effective in getting Airbus to respond to customers rather than blame them? With a straight face you can say that?

Because that is his job, and he's been doing a shitty job of it for a couple years now. Just to see the battle it took to keep US a customer and to finalize the QR order that was in the bag forever shows the problems this man is having with that program.

And considering some of the stupid things he's been saying, I wonder whether airlines would WELCOME a new man in his position so they can deal with a more honest person. They can't read he's quotes in the press and trust him, can they?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting B707321C (Reply 19):
I can't believe all your comments, please note that the artical was based on a quote from a customer, which quoted Leahy- pretty far from the orginal source and probably taken completely out of context. I think that Leahy probably meant something like Composite Barrels are not leading edge technology, but rather "bleeding edge" and has a long way to go before its refined and perfected. Boeing has a long way to go before they can prove that using Composite Barrels for commercial airline production can be cost effective in a mass production environment. I am sorry to say, but this technology might not prove to be the best, only time will tell.



Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 27):
I challenge all the posters above to actually go to the link and read it. It is a BLOGGER, paraphrasing three words of SUH, which appear in turn to be a paraphrase of what Leahy said.

Good god, how much does Leahy pay you all to spin for him? It's hard to imagine some one would put the words "Old fashioned" into Leahy's mouth. Those aren't exactly commonly heard words in the aircraft industry. However, him saying it would be perfectly consistent with Leahy's tendency to shoot his mouth off to promote Airbus's offerings. And I doubt anyone would get confused if Leahy was accusing the the 787 tech of being risky with him saying it was oldfashioned.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:00 pm

How come every time a Seattle reporter reports on some ridiculous Airbus story certain members of this forum want to discredit said reporter? If they were writing lies or half-truths the people being quoted, or Airbus PR, would demand a retraction. Or at the very least clarification.

Show me where that has happened. And, if you can't, then be quiet. The people writing the stories are actually there, on the ground. Which is more than can be said for you.
 
814NAS
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 29):
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
Hazy doesn't make things like that up. Maybe he's convinced Gallois that more changes are needed?

I thought the purpose of this upcoming meeting was for Gallois to convince Hazy; that's what he thinks it is anyway.

SUH may well be trying to extract further major changes from Airbus; however, it seems that even SUH has now accepted that the basic design of the A350 will remain as it is.

"I think the basic configuration is fixed and frozen but I think there is some optimization going on in the design and I think that will continue," Udvar-Hazy said at the Paris air show.

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1182291816.html
 
airfrnt
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 27):

I challenge all the posters above to actually go to the link and read it. It is a BLOGGER, paraphrasing three words of SUH, which appear in turn to be a paraphrase of what Leahy said.

Quotes mean that it's verbatim. Pure and simple. Anything else is a bad journalistic behavior.

And for crying out loud, it's a reporter for the Seattle PI. Character assassination isn't needed here.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 27):
I challenge all the posters above to actually go to the link and read it. It is a BLOGGER, paraphrasing three words of SUH, which appear in turn to be a paraphrase of what Leahy said.

You are incorrect...

"John Leahy, the Airbus sales chief, told me (James Wallace-the reporter) Tuesday that Boeing's design with the composite barrels is "old fashioned.''

...he didn't stated that Leahy told Hazy who told me...James Wallace stated that "Leahy told me"...this isn't too difficult to understand... no 

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 28):

On the range however, he totally missed that one! But then, so did Boeing with the 787-3.

....incorrect again. the purpose of the B783 wasn't so it could fly nonstop from LHR-SYD year round with good loads..it had two other distinct purposes...

1)to get a launch carrier on board for the B787 program
2)provide carriers good pax load flying only short distances..i.e. in other words, it was made for the NH's and JL's of the world....

with 43 sales and a "kickstart" for the B787 program, it has paid itself off in more ways than one....
"Up the Irons!"
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:11 pm

Oh Manni, Manni, you're kidding, right?  Silly

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Let the sales speak for themselfes. Mr. Leahy keeps selling aircraft in big numbers despite the problems the company went trough.

Yep, he's selling 787s like a madman. Oh, wait....
 laughing 
Airliners.net Moderator Team
 
airfrnt
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):

I'm fully aware what those " stand for. Besides, it's not only the English language that use these to quote someone else. However using the ", doesn't mean that what is written between it is exactely what has been said. aviation journalists are notorious for reporting with 'flaws'.

Then why on earth would you state:

Quote:

Maybe you should have read the article. You'd have noticed that this is not a direct quote from Mr. Leahy. I'd take the comment by Mr. Hazy with a pinch of salt.

from the same article:

Quote:

"John Leahy, the Airbus sales chief, told me (James Wallace-the reporter) Tuesday that Boeing's design with the composite barrels is "old fashioned.''



Quoting Manni (Reply 30):

Mr. Leahy's job is not to impress you.

No, it's not. However, you asserted that it is something that should:

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
r. Leahy keeps selling aircraft in big numbers despite the problems the company went trough. People might want to discredit his work but I suspect it has more to do with 'sour grapes' then with his actual comments.

There are no sour grapes here. Anyone who thinks that US would honestly consider the 787 was deluding them about the pound of flesh Airbus already put on the table and the fact that US was in hoc in Airbus. Leahy made his bones by attacking and taking customers from Boeing. That's not happening here.
 
SkyGazer
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
People might want to discredit his work but I suspect it has more to do with 'sour grapes' then with his actual comments. yes

I think you may need to start looking at these things more objectively. Had Boeing not sold 600+ 787 and were in some trouble, your statement might actually stand up.

BUT...

Look at the facts:

600+ 787 sold
A350XWB itself being made out of composite panels around an aluminium frame
"Old fashioned" as being quoted by the reporter

So sour grapes for what? It doesn't appear any Boeing cheerleaders are going to unsettled in any way by Leahy's comments (read comedy ).

[Edited 2007-06-20 07:26:24]
Types flown: B738, B772ER, B773, B77W, B744, A310, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A388
 
iwok
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:25 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 14):
Well, he was the best for Airbus back in the 90's. He was instrumental in getting Airbus to where they are today as far as being the #1 commercial aircraft producer in the world.

In many ways SUH is the man who made Airbus what is was; not Loudmouth Leahy.

Quoting B707321C (Reply 19):
I can't believe all your comments, please note that the artical was based on a quote from a customer, which quoted Leahy- pretty far from the orginal source and probably taken completely out of context

So I ask you.... Do you think that this is NOT something Leahy would say? I doubt it.  no 

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 27):
We have absolutely no idea what Leahy said.

Read the article in more detail and leave the blinders at the door.

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 27):
Come on, guys - if you want to bash Airbus, choose something factual

No one is bashing Airbus; they're bashing Loudmouth Leahy. I beginning to think that the latest leadership is resorting to Foregardianism; after all Gallois did say today the "Airbus is back."  Embarrassment

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Let the sales speak for themselfes.

There are no sales yet for the 350 that I would describe as pivotal or impressive. Get BA, UA, LH, EK or AF and I'll be impressed. The QR sale is a more a of a bribe for Qatar to start entering the big leagues of high-tech aeropsace, and the US sale is more of a "return the favor" deal.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
But he's had far less luck selling A380s and A350s.

Not to mention 340's.

Quoting 814NAS (Reply 34):
"I think the basic configuration is fixed and frozen but I think there is some optimization going on in the design and I think that will continue," Udvar-Hazy said at the Paris air show.

And he let us all know how he felt about this... with his checkbook of course.  Wink

I think the time is coming with Loudmouth Leahy will need to follow Old Noel into the sunset.

iwok
 
NAV20
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:51 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):
However using the ", doesn't mean that what is written between it is exactely what has been said. aviation journalists are notorious for reporting with 'flaws'.

I don't know why people keep saying things like that. Any journalist who made up a quote as damaging as that would get his newspaper (and himself) sued within 24 hours. Indeed, the editors probably asked for Wallace's notes and/or recording tapes, and checked with the lawyers, before they let the story be printed.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
It is not just his job to sell what he is given and make the best of it. His job is also to tell Airbus what customers want.

 checkmark  Couldn't agree more - especially someone as highly-placed as Leahy. Though in fairness to him, he may have been telling them the straight odds for years, and just getting himself told, "That's all you're getting, make the best of it."
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
PEET7G
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:53 pm

I have to puke up from this guy, and as some one stated above, I too am wondering how does he keep his job? I challenge any loud-mouth Airbus cheerleader to prove now that Airbus management is not spineless and show me their correctitude. Sure... barking at the competition about not talking on the A350, and trying to discredit the competitor in an ignoble way is a game Airbus management, especially MrLoud-mouth is good about.

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Let the sales speak for themselves. Mr. Leahy keeps selling aircraft in big numbers despite the problems the company went trough. People might want to discredit his work but I suspect it has more to do with 'sour grapes' then with his actual comments.

Yes, luckily sales do speak for themselves... and in a business environment this guy is building it only shows that perfectly good products in a congested market sell them self... I don't think you have to put big effort into selling A32Xs or A330s...

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Maybe you should have read the article. You'd have noticed that this is not a direct quote from Mr. Leahy. I'd take the comment by Mr. Hazy with a pinch of salt.

Even if it was a comment from Mr. Udvarhazy, if he publicly says Leahy told him so in person, then I would give him credit that he is not telling a lie. However what spineless person you have to be to try and foul your customers with such behind the scene hush-hush yapping?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
...he didn't stated that Leahy told Hazy who told me...James Wallace stated that "Leahy told me"...this isn't too difficult to understand...

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Peet7G
 
MCIGuy
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:20 pm

Simply allow me to say that Mr. Leahy's credibility is a train wreck, to put it mildly. He is a salesman but he's not selling a product to uninformed consumers. Potential customers see through him as well as we do, they have engineers on staff. I'd just like to know who of any importance listens to him anymore.

[Edited 2007-06-20 08:24:14]
Airliners.net Moderator Team
 
flyabr
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:38 pm

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/320433_airshow20.html

it appears to me that leahy did say "old fashioned" to this particular journalist...or a group of journalists...
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:51 pm

And? What is the point?

Airbus has more advanced materials in the A350 than Boeing in the 787. Having those large composite barrels glued together means that you need some heavy steel or titanium parts inside to hold the thing together. It is probably smarter to have a lighter aluminum skeleton first and then put the composite panels around it, which can easily be replaced in case of damage.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
jonathan-l
Posts: 394
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:51 pm

Quoting FlyABR (Reply 40):
it appears to me that leahy did say "old fashioned" to this particular journalist

Agree.
And perhaps the journalist forgets to say that he was maybe kidding?
 
Kangar
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:56 pm

Leahy is great, I have to say, if he wasn't around, a lot of folks on this forum would have nothing to get their knickers in a twist about!
 
flyabr
Topic Author
Posts: 864
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RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 41):
Airbus has more advanced materials in the A350 than Boeing in the 787

in what way are the materials to be used in the A350 more advanced? are they gonna use some new material nobody has heard of yet...?

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 42):
And perhaps the journalist forgets to say that he was maybe kidding?

you're kidding, right?
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting FlyABR (Reply 44):
in what way are the materials to be used in the A350 more advanced? are they gonna use some new material nobody has heard of yet...?

No, I meant a higher percentage of advanced materials in the whole plane.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
814NAS
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:32 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 41):

Have you seen the supposed size of the planned panels? They are supposed to be huge and, I would suspect, not the easiest things replace quickly. I am also not inferring it would be easy for the 787 either.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:01 pm

Quoting 814NAS (Reply 46):
Have you seen the supposed size of the planned panels? They are supposed to be huge and, I would suspect, not the easiest things replace quickly. I am also not inferring it would be easy for the 787 either.

Certainly they can't be replaced quickly, but they can be replaced without tearing the whole plane apart.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
814NAS
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:32 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 47):

But, I am sure much of the interior would have to be removed first? I can't see how else the panel could be removed and replaced from the frames otherwise.

I understand the problems with the barrel also.
 
flyabr
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 47):
Certainly they can't be replaced quickly, but they can be replaced without tearing the whole plane apart.

and a gash in the side of a dreamliner can only be dealt with by completely tearing apart the whole plane?? wow, hope boeing knows this ... :lol:
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
Wasn't Gallois saying the other day that Boeing shouldn't talk about the A350?

No.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 26):
Good god, how much does Leahy pay you all to spin for him? It's hard to imagine some one would put the words "Old fashioned" into Leahy's mouth.

Leahy may have said that whereas the monolithic composite barrels are good, the panel approach is nonetheless a further refinement that yields lower weight.
 
flyabr
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:34 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 48):
Leahy may have said that whereas the monolithic composite barrels are good, the panel approach is nonetheless a further refinement that yields lower weight.

do we really know this for sure? seems some very influential customers are doubting this.

[Edited 2007-06-20 09:36:08]
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: Leahy: Composite Barrels Are "Old Fashioned"!

Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:07 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 39):
which can easily be replaced in case of damage.

I don't think you have realized how big those panels are going to be... An aircraft that is damaged so heavily that one of the panels are damaged beyond repair is a write off, and much of the structure would probably be damaged then too. The panels won't be replaced, they will be patched, just as the barrels on the 787 will be.

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