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LHBSL
Topic Author
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:10 pm

LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:00 pm

Hi everyone,

Some roumors going around that LH will start some services from Frankfurt to Seattle and Orlando (even Millwaukee was mentioned...???) and from DUS to Miami aswell as the allready mentined services from HAM/STR/TXL to some american destinations. IMO it makes sence to open some new routes to regain passengers at the non-hub airports in Germany as they already lost some to Delta, Continental and Emirates.

Anybody has more Informations?

Regards         

[Edited 2007-06-23 09:16:53]
 
flyorski
Posts: 735
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:23 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:05 pm

Sound good. I think that this could work, though Daily service on some of these routes might be too much. Good luck with these routes LH. I hope for an announcement soon.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:49 pm

Quoting LHBSL (Thread starter):
from DUS to Miami

I'd call that one highly unlikely at best...

Quoting LHBSL (Thread starter):
from HAM/STR/TXL to some american destinations.

... and I seriously doubt we'll be seeing that anytime soon - not that I'd completely rule it out, but considering that LH has some serious amounts of A380s and B748s on order, I don't see them going too much into regionalization of their longhaul routes for the time being.

Quoting LHBSL (Thread starter):
to regain passengers at the non-hub airports in Germany as they already lost some to Delta, Continental and Emirates.

Looking at the overall amount of passengers they've lost, I'd say they're far from suffering - LH still is (unfortunately, in my eyes, speaking purely from a passenger comfort level - and, no, I'm NOT thinking of the missing PTVs in that case!!!  Wink) the predominant carrier ex Germany, and that's not going to change for quite some time.

Continental, Delta and Emirates might be an itch on LH's side, but their impact still remains quite limited. The one thing that could hurt LH much more than those three is if AB really builds up momentum and turns into more than the LCC/Charter mix that they are today.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
LHBSL
Topic Author
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:10 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 2):
Quoting LHBSL (Thread starter):
from DUS to Miami

I'd call that one highly unlikely at best...

I talked to a stationmanager in the U.S.; I don't know when but: you will see...  Wink

Regards

p.s: this wouldn't be the first time on this route; remember the good old DC-10...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26507
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:21 pm

The only reason why Dusseldorf to Miami makes some sense is because they are trying to send a message to LTU's new owner, Air Berlin, and their plans to expand LTU's long-haul flying. Miami-Dusseldorf has been flown by LTU for ages and is one of their most profitable long-haul routes. They are now flying to Miami 5x weekly (though it is split, 3x DUS/2x MUC).

I don't put much weight on it either and I would be very shocked to see LH open MIA-DUS before re-opening MIA-MUC, but I see why the rumour would get started.

As recently as 1994, LH served Miami from Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Munich, and Hamburg.
a.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:22 pm

Quoting LHBSL (Reply 3):
I talked to a stationmanager in the U.S.; I don't know when but: you will see...

I hope that was a different stationmanager than the one quoted by another a.net member that claimed LH would be back in PHX by the beginning or mid of this year...  Wink

But I don't mind being proven wrong on these things...  Smile ... it's just that I really don't see these routes in LH's network anytime soon. After all: what equipment? A330-300? Seems too large for the route in my eyes, but that's the smallest that LH has.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26507
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 5):
A330-300? Seems too large for the route in my eyes, but that's the smallest that LH has.

LTU has no problem filling three weekly A330s between Miami and Dusseldorf year-round, no reason why Lufthansa would. The flight would easily fill, yield would be the problem. Miami-Germany is not a great yielding market, and with LTU on MIA-DUS, I don't see how Lufthansa would be able to make the route profitable, even though it is a given that they would fill the planes.

[Edited 2007-06-23 10:51:42]
a.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:38 pm

I don't see LH flying DUS-MIA, because I don't see how it works out logistically. However, I can conceive LH doing several flights from outside their hubs using a W pattern:

MUC-IAD-DUS/HAM/TXL-IAD-MUC
FRA-ORD-DUS/HAM/TXL-ORD-FRA

Those are routes that make sense to me (seeing that they run smaller planes like the 333 or 343).

Most other connections won't work out in a W pattern as they run 744s or 34Ds, and I don't see LH deploying those birds on secondary routes. I also cannot fathom LH to base widebody equipment outside FRA and MUC; even MUC only has its own subfleet since January 2007.

But could LH fly new routes from FRA and MUC? FRA-PHX and MUC-MIA are certainly missing, MUC-ORD might want a second (or third if you count UA in) flight, but then we'll get to more "exotic" flights: MUC-SEA (probs with SAS?), FRA-SJC (proximity to SFO?), FRA-SAN (runway?), FRA-MSY (yield?), FRA-MSP (NW stronghold), FRA-MKE (proximity to ORD) ....

SailorOrion
 
LHBSL
Topic Author
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:10 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:03 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 5):
I hope that was a different stationmanager than the one quoted by another a.net member that claimed LH would be back in PHX by the beginning or mid of this year...

I do hope so...  Wink

AFAIK FRA-Orlando: A330 DUS-Miami: A343

Regards
 
desediez
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:44 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 2):
I'm NOT thinking of the missing PTVs in that case!!! .

You won´t miss them in the near future anymore...
Acc. to a very trusty source i have (sorry, none internet, neither public), the upgrading of the first A346 with PTVs in ECO will start in about ten days.

rgds
A/C flown: 100,306,312,313,319,320,32A,A20N,321,333,342,343,346,359,351,388,703,721,722,731,732,733,734,735,738,
73H,741,742,743,744,74C,74D,74E,762,76W,772,77W,788,AR8,ARJ,CR2,CR7,CR9,D1C,D91,D93,D95,DH8,E90,F50,F70,
L15,M11,M81,M82,M83
 
LXA340
Posts: 1183
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting Desediez (Reply 9):
You won´t miss them in the near future anymore...
Acc. to a very trusty source i have (sorry, none internet, neither public), the upgrading of the first A346 with PTVs in ECO will start in about ten days.

Will Eco have the same IFE as the Business and First Class cabin "Lufthansa Media World" AVOD? Also any exact dates on when the first LH aircraft will get the new FIrst Class cabin or when we will see the first pictures of the actual seat?

I don't know LH could operate flights to North America using one or 2 Aircraft operating eg STR-MIA-DUS-MIA-STR and so on, and use one aircraft to fly to one destination from two locations in germany and operate them each every 2nd day?
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting LHBSL (Reply 3):
I talked to a stationmanager in the U.S.; I don't know when but: you will see...

Regards

A station manager is hardly a good source for airline rumors. They are well down the inside info scale, for any airline that I am familiar with.
 
Qazar
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:48 pm

Seattle would surprise me.... They already fly to Portland and Vancouver and Seattle seems too close a market to both these destinations - especially Vancouver. I'd say we'd me more likely to see LH fly a second daily rotation from MUC to Vancouver or even Portland before they consider Seattle. Besides, Seattle is presently served by Star alliance partner SAS. I presume SAS wouldn't be very happy if LH became a competition on the route.

What would make much more sense however, would be for LH to take over the Seattle route, freeing up some SAS metal to be dispatched on more important markets presently not served by the Scandinavian carrier.

If LH would open new routes to North America, my money would go on:
FRA - Phoenix
FRA - Las Vegas
MUC - Miami
MUC - Mexico City
MUC - Houston
MUC - Dallas
DUS - NYC (service upgrade)
DUS - ORD (service upgrade)
DUS - IAD
DUS - LAX
DUS - SFO
TXL - NYC (JFK or EWR)
TXL - IAD
TXL - ORD
TXL - LAX
TXL - SFO
STR - NYC (JFK or EWR)
STR - ORD
HAM - NYC (JFK or EWR)
HAM - ORD
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting LHBSL (Thread starter):
Some roumors going around that LH will start some services from Frankfurt to Seattle and Orlando (even Millwaukee was mentioned...???)

As we speak I am in MKE. I have been here a fedw days on business. Yesterday, on tgalk radio, in the car there was some mmention and discussion of LH possibly starting serivce to MKE. It was the first I had heard, read or even thought of such a thing.

However, for me, the most glaring ommission in the UA Capital to Capital service that UA advertises is the lack of a
TXL-IAD flight. I happen to think that there might be a market for such a flight. The problem is the size of the aircraft used. When LH operated the flight back in 2001, the plane was simply too large for the market. Perhaps a 767 on UA might better be more profitble. Just a guess but I do think there is a market for TXL-IAD.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 940
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RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:08 pm

Seattle will not be happening...Lufthansa already operates out of Portland and Vancouver..........
 
boeing743
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:16 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:23 pm

It sound interest to see what LH going to say where they would flying to North America. They possible decide on some new route to Canada?? If come to USA, I think maybe strong city would be ORD, SEA, possible LAS as more international flight are coming to LAS to bring gambler but problem is that their international bldg is small to handle more International flight as building itself is little small not good design for international. LAS may has to figure out the building, by remodel or building a new international terminal to better fit all widebodies airplanes.
 
LHUSA
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RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:23 pm

Some of these should be cleared up next week after the board meets for final approval.
 
boeing743
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:16 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 15):
I think maybe strong city would be ORD, SEA, possible LAS



Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 15):
I think maybe strong city would be ORD, SEA, possible LAS

I mean MCO not ORD, I do not know why I said ORD since they already has it. LOL!! I am sure MCO would be big hit since it is vacation popular place for many people since Virgin Airways has many aircrafts that come to MCO.
 
boeing743
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:16 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 15):
I think maybe strong city would be ORD, SEA, possible LAS



Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 15):
I think maybe strong city would be ORD, SEA, possible LAS

I mean MCO not ORD, I do not know why I said ORD since they already has it. LOL!! I am sure MCO would be big hit since it is vacation popular place for many people since Virgin Airways has many aircrafts that come to MCO.
 
Avion346
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:36 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting Lhpdx (Reply 14):
Seattle will not be happening...Lufthansa already operates out of Portland and Vancouver..........

So people who want to go to Seattle will fly to YVR?? It's not that close, plus traffic on I-5. Close or not, SEA and YVR are different, unique destinations, and as far as I know NOT alternates or substitutes for each other. But hey, what do I know (or care, really.....).

[Edited 2007-06-23 17:23:43]
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
FRA - Las Vegas

This would be very interesting as the existing airline on the route CONDOR has served LAS for at least 15 years.. There is room for service, however I would think the service to Las Vegas would be 3x - 5x per week with a 2 class A340 and nothing larger at best. Currently there is talk about US Airways de-hubbing Las Vegas to a Focus City status by later this year, early next year. One of the most interesting things about this idea is that even with limited feed on the Las Vegas side from connecting US flights, the fight may gain the majority of its traffic in passengers heading solely to Las Vegas. Lufthansa certainly has the connections at Frankfurt to pull from all over Europe, the Middle East, and so forth.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
MUC - Dallas

What, and why for? Air France couldn't maintain Dallas, Sabena couldn't maintain Dallas, American couldn't even maintain Dallas to Manchester, Madrid, or Zurich.. If this route is flown I would not by any means look for a daily service. At best I would say with an A330 at 3x to 4x per week. Departing later in the evening so as not cannibalize the current DFW-FRA afternoon service.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
DUS - LAX

This is possible on a 3x per week basis, again with nothing larger than a A340; This is currently an LTU market. I give this credit as Los Angeles is a Star Alliance hub, and offer a number of US domestic connections, however not near as many as the San Francisco United Airlines hub.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
DUS - SFO

This is possible on a 3x-5x per week basis, again with nothing larger than a A340; This was an LTU market. I give this idea further credit as San Francisco is a Star Alliance hub, and offers more Star Alliance domestic US connections that Los Angeles.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
HAM - ORD

I question this route as Lufthansa does not have a sizable operation at Hamburg, and the flights would have to rely nearly solely on O/D traffic to and from Hamburg. However there is a possibility that this route could indeed be flown as a PrivatAir service in an all Business Class config. There is certainly demand as Hamburg is a huge financial center in Northern Germany. I cannot see the use of anything larger on this route, as Lufthansa has a very small number of useful connections from Hamburg. In addition the bulk of those connections are on Lufthansa Regional.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
STR - ORD

Lufthansa does not have a sizable operation at Stuttgart, and the flights would have to rely nearly solely on O/D traffic to and from Stuttgart. However there is a possibility that this route could indeed be flown as a PrivatAir service in an all Business Class config. There is certainly demand as Stuttgart is a huge industrial center in Southern Germany. I cannot see the use of anything larger on this route, as Lufthansa has a very small number of useful connections from Stuttgart.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
HAM - NYC (JFK or EWR)

This route was flown a number of years ago and I can definitely see the potential of the route being flown again. At current this route is flown solely by Emirates, and is in dire need of competition. Continental serves this route from EWR as well. Interestingly the O/D in the Hamburg to NYC market is rather good. This could prove to be a very good addition to the Lufthansa Intercontinental network with a 2 class A333. I cannot see the use of anything larger on this route, as Lufthansa has a very small number of useful connections from Hamburg. In addition the bulk of those connections are on Lufthansa Regional.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
STR - NYC (JFK or EWR)

Lufthansa does not have a sizable operation at Stuttgart, and the flights would have to rely nearly solely on O/D traffic to and from Stuttgart. However there is a possibility that this route could indeed be flown as a PrivatAir service in an all Business Class config. There is certainly demand as Stuttgart is a huge industrial center in Southern Germany. I cannot see the use of anything larger on this route, as Lufthansa has a very small number of useful connections from Stuttgart.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
TXL - NYC (JFK or EWR)

Lufthansa flew this route a number of years ago, did it not? In any case the only airlines serving this route now are Delta Air Lines ala JFK, and Continental Airlines ala EWR. There certainly is room for Lufthansa in the market. However, in this case I dont think this route would call for anything more than a 2-class A333. As Lufthansa only has a limited number of sensible connections that can be achieved via TXL.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
TXL - IAD

This route I can definitely see coming into play. Although I think it would be a route that is better suited for the Lufthansa-PrivatAir program. Their is touristic demand for Berlin, Y cabin, however that is only seasonal. Lufthansa has only a limited number of useful connections from TXL, and their is a lack of additional long-haul from TXL to make use of a widebody on this route.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
MUC - Mexico City

This route has been talked about for sometime now. I can definitely see this route being flown. There are enough connections available from Munich to make this route sustainable on a 5x per week basis if not more. The route however would be best to be flown in the afternoon, as the current FRA flight departs in the evening. That would allow for a non-cannibalization of Frankfurt service.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
FRA - Phoenix

This has been the on and off route for a number of years. If I am mistaken, and I just may be the route was originally flown with a 767-300, then a A340, then a A330. Now that Phoenix is a Star Alliance member hub I can most definitely see the use of a A340-300 3-Class or a A340-600 2-Class on the route on a year-round basis.

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 16):
Some of these should be cleared up next week after the board meets for final approval.

There has been some talk about Lufthansa considering the addition of:

MFM, CMB, DAC, SJO, GUA, TPE, MVD, SYD, MEL, and CTS.

Has anyone else heard of any of these being on the list of possible long-haul Lufthansa expansion?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
LHBSL
Topic Author
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:10 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:21 am

Hi Lhpdx


Quoting Lhpdx (Reply 14):
Lufthansa already operates out of Portland

do you know the average loadfactor on the FRA route? would interest me...

Regards
 
dolphinflyer
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 9:57 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:44 am

What about the possibility of FRA-MSP? That should be a great route for LH.
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 22):
What about the possibility of FRA-MSP? That should be a great route for LH

Interesting thought.. It would defnitely take a huge bite of NWA and their AMS service. What I would then question is what connections could be used to support this service on the MSP end? The demand for O/D from MSP I am thinking is slim at best.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
bimmerkid19
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:43 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 23):
Interesting thought.. It would defnitely take a huge bite of NWA and their AMS service. What I would then question is what connections could be used to support this service on the MSP end? The demand for O/D from MSP I am thinking is slim at best.



Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 22):
What about the possibility of FRA-MSP? That should be a great route for LH.

There are several Star flights into MSP and also being the fact that Minnesota and Western Wisconsin have a huge Western European heritage, and theres lots of originating traffic from MSP bound for FRA and other places around Germany, it would make sense to have a direct service to FRA, as back in the late 90´s and maybe as late as 2000 or 2001. NW had a MSP-FRA flight that did quite well and NW is thinking about restarting it but right now i think they arent in a good position to do so. More power to LH if they do start service to MSP. It´d be nice to see something else in Minnesota other than NW all the time.
Last flights: LH 3738 MUC - ZRH , LH 3749 ZRH - MUC . Upcoming: EK 50 MUC - DXB 3-aug. and EK 322 DXB - ICN 7- Aug.
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 24):
NW had a MSP-FRA flight that did quite well and NW is thinking about restarting it but right now i think they arent in a good position to do so

Are you mistaking that with the DC-10 service to Oslo?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting Desediez (Reply 9):
You won´t miss them in the near future anymore...
Acc. to a very trusty source i have (sorry, none internet, neither public), the upgrading of the first A346 with PTVs in ECO will start in about ten days.

You misunderstood me there - the fact that they don't (or soon to read "didn't") have PTVs was one of the few things I liked about LH longhaul; them putting PTVs in, and I don't think they'll be using the version without those dumb boxes under the seats, is rather a reason for me to avoid LH in the future.

PTVs are a selling point for me - if an airline DOESN'T have them, I'm more inclined to book a flight with them.

... and, yes, I'm serious.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
adicool
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:38 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 20):

There has been some talk about Lufthansa considering the addition of:

MFM, CMB, DAC, SJO, GUA, TPE, MVD, SYD, MEL, and CTS.

Has anyone else heard of any of these being on the list of possible long-haul Lufthansa expansion?

-JD

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 20):

SJO and GUA sound pretty interesting especially for their lack in the Latin American market. But I think LH will wait until TACA has made any announcements regarding their membership for *A. I could definitly see GUA being served ex FRA 3x weekly or so.

SYD and MEL are being served by SN so I don't think their is any need for LH to fly with their own metal.

MVD, I can totally see it happening, as a connecting flight ex EZE, especially since LH will fly non-stop again. Maybe they could fly
FRA - EZE - MVD - FRA
I think it would be great, tough 5x weekly for MVD would be too much, maybe 2x weekly, but the potential, if used sensibly, is there.

TPE and CTS, yes, maybe, especially since LH want to strengthen their presence in the Asian market.
I don't know about MFE tough, don't think their is a lot of demand for a FRA-MFE route

The expansion to the African continent will probably left to LX as they seem to be doing rather well there....

just my two cents

[Edited 2007-06-23 20:19:29]
 
shane
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:38 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:15 am

Somehow I doubt it will happen, but wouldn't it be nice to see FRA-SAN ? I imagine I'll hear more "wait for the 787" comments...

Also, what about a seasonal increase in MUC-SFO service? I remember hearing UA had applied for it but didn't like the times offered. IMO, it's the best way to Italy and Greece from northern California, amongst a host of other destinations in the region.

[Edited 2007-06-23 20:18:52]
 
LH506
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting LHBSL (Thread starter):
MFM, CMB, DAC, SJO, GUA, TPE, MVD, SYD, MEL, and CTS.

Has anyone else heard of any of these being on the list of possible long-haul Lufthansa expansion?

Except for TPE and maybe CTS I cannot imagine these being priorities for LH. I would assume that

PHX, LAS, KHI, TAS, ATQ, BOG, GIG, LIM and whatever city in China, maybe a return to PHC or DKR are higher up on their priority list. But then what do I know about LHs strategy.
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
adicool
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:38 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:21 am

Isn't there a big jewish/german minority in MVD?
 
Avianca
Posts: 5376
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 18):
I am sure MCO would be big hit since it is vacation popular place for many people since Virgin Airways has many aircrafts that come to MCO.

this is exactly the market that for LH isnt for interesting.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 20):
What, and why for? Air France couldn't maintain Dallas, Sabena couldn't maintain Dallas, American couldn't even maintain Dallas to Manchester, Madrid, or Zurich.. If this route is flown I would not by any means look for a daily service. At best I would say with an A330 at 3x to 4x per week. Departing later in the evening so as not cannibalize the current DFW-FRA afternoon service.

remember, MUC is a bigger star alliance hub in europe, with many connections... wouldn a surprise if LH starts later or sooner a second flight, and this time to MUC

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 20):
MFM, CMB, DAC, SJO, GUA, TPE, MVD, SYD, MEL, and CTS.

Has anyone else heard of any of these being on the list of possible long-haul Lufthansa expansion?

no it is the first time and for the most I think also the last time... as somebody mentioned before there are x more destinations before these... only to mention BOG, LIM, GIG.... etc

Quoting Adicool (Reply 30):
Isn't there a big jewish/german minority in MVD?

and??? even IB has not enough passengers for a daily flight... I am sure we can wait a long long time before we see MVD back in LH schedules.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:38 am

Some interesting proposals, but I really dont see LH opening routes to Las Vegas or Orlando in competition with well established European/German holiday airlines that offer low price services to these markets. LH has little to gain in these markets; LH is yeild driven and is focused on higher fare passengers sitting in the premium cabins.....while there certainly are many pax interested in travelling to LAS and MCO, its fare-sensitive leisure traffic. PHX is a very good example; LH was doing OK with its FRA-PHX route, loads were good, bookings were above norm and, for a new unproven service, things seemed to be going well.....LH pulled because the yeilds were not attractive enough and there were better opportunities elsewhere. Will LH return to PHX? Hard to say, that STAR partner US now has a hub at PHX does make things more interesting but I am not sure if it would directly benefit LH. Nothing more than a ""maybe"" in my opinion.

LH is working hard to create its dual-hub system so I do expect to see more and more flights from North America to Munich in the coming years.....with growth possibilities at FRA limited, putting more connecting traffic through Munich makes sense (as well as the fact that there is good premium demand into Munich). As for additional North American cities? Difficult, LH already has most of the key cities more than covered: SEA is often discussed and as the PDX flight matures, there is really no reason that SEA could not work as well, a flight to TPA could be a possibility as that city has limited service to Europe, from time to time we hear about Milwakee, but I dont believe it (the Beer Express) but if KL/NW is successful at BDL, maybe that would be a possibility due to the number of financial/insurance companies based in the area? There is also probably room to expand in Central America and Canada.

As for transatlantic flights from regional German cities (meaning anything other than FRA and Munich) to North America....I have my doubts. LH flies some key routes with Privatair business jet services. If LH was to get into this market, it would be essential that LH fly into a UA (or US) hub city where connection possibilities are available. CO and DL have proven that a flight to/from a ""smaller EU city"" to the US will work if it can effeciently serve O&D traffic to the US destination AND offer connections throughout the US. Its would be extremely difficult making a flight work on O&D traffic alone. And, LH's smallest longhaul aircraft is the A333......thats a big airplane to use on a longhaul route out of a city like STR or HAM.

------------------

Most of LH's growth will be on routes to the Gulf, India and China......this is where the action will be in the coming years, especially for Euroepan carriers LH also will renew its interest in South America, another potential growth area. While of course the North Atlantic will remain vitally important, that market is much more mature than other areas in the world where new possibilities are opening up.
 
phxpilot
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:25 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 20):
This has been the on and off route for a number of years. If I am mistaken, and I just may be the route was originally flown with a 767-300, then a A340, then a A330. Now that Phoenix is a Star Alliance member hub I can most definitely see the use of a A340-300 3-Class or a A340-600 2-Class on the route on a year-round basis.

Actually, it was started with the A340. (200 then 300 IIRC). LH would not keep a consistant schedule and the days of operation became more and more varied. Personally, this made it very difficult to fly on them IMHO. LH eventually provided the flying to Condor which operated the B762's, before withdrawing altogether.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting Qazar (Reply 12):
What would make much more sense however, would be for LH to take over the Seattle route, freeing up some SAS metal to be dispatched on more important markets presently not served by the Scandinavian carrier.

You will not see SAS pull out of SEA anytime soon. SEA infact is one of their most important destinations in the US anyway. SEA has a sizable Scandinavian population, not to mention SAS has been serving SEA since the 60s. Who says there can't be 2 Star Alliance carriers serving SEA-Europe? SEA is not a small market. This doesn't suprise me as LH was originally looking at SEA instead of PDX in the first place.
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 34):
You will not see SAS pull out of SEA anytime soon. SEA infact is one of their most important destinations in the US anyway. SEA has a sizable Scandinavian population, not to mention SAS has been serving SEA since the 60s. Who says there can't be 2 Star Alliance carriers serving SEA-Europe? SEA is not a small market. This doesn't suprise me as LH was originally looking at SEA instead of PDX in the first place

I agree......but there were reports out of SAS a few months ago stating that their entire longhaul operation was a loser including the SEA-CPH route which I found shocking. As you point out, SAS has served SEA for about 40 years....I was certain that the route was a money maker; SAS has clearly benefited from limited competition in the SEA-Europe market and from an established following in the SEA area. But if SAS is not making money with the route, who knows what will happen?

As I said above, once the PDX-SEA route matures, there is no reason why LH could not open up a SEA-FRA service; PDX and SEA are seperate markets, the two cities are not that close to eachother, and the fact that SAS serves SEA is not going to influence LH.
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 35):
As I said above, once the PDX-SEA route matures, there is no reason why LH could not open up a SEA-FRA service; PDX and SEA are seperate markets, the two cities are not that close to eachother, and the fact that SAS serves SEA is not going to influence LH.

How bout SEA-MUC? PDX and YVR can keep FRA service, SEA gets another European destination, United can put their code on it, and everyone will be happy.
Ask why..
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:46 am

LH held FRA-MSY (along with MSP) in its final three when it settled on adding PDX.

Perhaps they could take a look at the two again?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 37):
LH held FRA-MSY (along with MSP) in its final three when it settled on adding PDX.

Interesting, learned something, thanks.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 37):
Perhaps they could take a look at the two again?

My thought is that MSY would be the more interesting market.....not having any competition can be a very good thing. I split my time between the US and Europe, and it seems to me (a totally unscientific survery) that European travellers are much more interested in visiting New Orleans than Americans, in the post Katrina era. WIth redevelopment continuing, I would imagine that there would be an adequate mix of biz/leisure traffic in and out of MSY....I do know that a good number of pax on the KL/NW AMS-MEM flight were actually headed to MSY (this is a few years ago) so the demand is probably there.

As for MSP, it would be a tough battle with hometown favorite NW......is there enough O&D into MSP to support another flight to Europe, my thinking is that a very big portion of the pax on the KL/NW MSP-LGW and MSP-AMS are actually flying to/from somewhere else in North America.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 35):
I agree......but there were reports out of SAS a few months ago stating that their entire longhaul operation was a loser including the SEA-CPH route which I found shocking. As you point out, SAS has served SEA for about 40 years....I was certain that the route was a money maker; SAS has clearly benefited from limited competition in the SEA-Europe market and from an established following in the SEA area. But if SAS is not making money with the route, who knows what will happen?

Interesting, I was under the impression that SEA-CPH was one of their only profitable long-haul routes...
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting Adicool (Reply 27):
SYD and MEL are being served by SN so I don't think their is any need for LH to fly with their own metal.

Do you mean Singapore?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
MSYtristar
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RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:22 am

FRA-MSY on LH would probably be a gold mind for the airline. For an area this size, New Orleans and its environs produces a hell of a lot of European traffic...just ask the folks at CO, DL, and UA specifically. With FRA being a Star Alliance hub, the possibilities for connections through there would be limitless. They could, without question, fill an A343...for starters i'd fly it 5x weekly, then go from there. Yields would be good because it would be the only nonstop service offered...people would pay a premium for a nonstop.

Come on LH.....MSY needs you!
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1159
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
A station manager is hardly a good source for airline rumors. They are well down the inside info scale, for any airline that I am familiar with.

On the contrary, a Station Manager friend of mine for a European carrier was spot on about US expansion and
fleet additions a good 3 months before it became common knowledge in the industry.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
Boeingluvr
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:56 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:32 am

I maysound like an idiot but I've always thought yyc would be a great place as we get so many charter passengers from Germany and that region through here!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 41):
They could, without question, fill an A343...

...looks like connecting via ATL it is!  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 44):
...looks like connecting via ATL it is!

I know, I know....you know Moisant Field wouldn't get the big LH Boeings....it'd have to endure the agony of the A340...but, seeing as it'd be the only nonstop to Europa, I'm sure most folks wouldn't mind  Wink
 
Avianca
Posts: 5376
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting Boeingluvr (Reply 43):
I maysound like an idiot but I've always thought yyc would be a great place as we get so many charter passengers from Germany and that region through here!

is AC not already on the route.... I think it should be enough or?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 45):
I know, I know....you know Moisant Field wouldn't get the big LH Boeings

...why would I care?

I'd go just as much out of my way and/or pay whatever extra it takes to avoid flying the Hunchback of Puget Sound as I would the Abomination340-- you know that! *slap*
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Boeingluvr
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:56 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:45 am

Well they are, but I saw a massive change when BA flew in as it seems as soon as they did that their loads were packed. They must have taken service from AC although AC has alread had the route in place for a while from FRA. Just thought that they would suit the City with it's imporved population and economic boom! Lots of Germany business doing business in Calgary. I see the loads on AC and Air Transait doing quite well so just an inquiry.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5376
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH New North Atlantic Destinations

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Boeingluvr (Reply 48):
Calgary. I see the loads on AC and Air Transait doing quite well so just an inquiry.

well maybe, but I think before AC will upgrade the service... sadly I do not see Canada as a priority for LH (really sadly)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia

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