OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 36):
Not the least of which is the fact that WN is weeks/days away from receiving their 500th aircraft,

N281WN will op BFI-DAL tomorrow 6/28.... Maybe the rain will ease-up so the party won't be washed out..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:24 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 20):
30 daily flights between DAL and HOU? Is that REALLY necessary?

Their bread and butter for 36 years as of last week. Has had that frequency for at least the last 30 years, IIRC. Put them on the map and became the core for later expansion.

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 21):
DEN gained more than MSY

+3 ABQ (total 3)
+2 Amarillo (total 2)
+1 AUS (total 1)
+1 BNA (total 2)
+2 OKC (total 2)
+4 SEA (total 4)
+1 SLC (total 5)

gain of 14 flts

That Denver increase is impressive. Expected, but still impressive. Back to AMA like the days of (old) Frontier, Braniff, and Texas International!

-Rampart
 
LGAtoIND
Posts: 416
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:29 am

Looks like DEN and MSY are the big winners, while BWI, LAX, and PHL seem to be losers. Does anyone know why BWI service is being reduced? Would IAD have anything to do with that?

Also, I found it interesting that MDW-ISP was being cut almost in half (from 7X to 4X daily). 7 flights a day always struck me as a bit much, and there always seemed to be plenty of $39 fares each way every time I flew this route. I have also taken this flight on a lot of half empty planes. Does anyone have any other speculation as to why this route was reduced?
 
DIA
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:38 am

DEN now has 16 nonstop-routes with WN...not bad.

How many flights per day do they have in/out of DEN?

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 48):
The Denver additions are interesting.

Agreed.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
piercey
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 29):
Phoenix
Decrease of 7 flights
Cleveland discontinued

 banghead  banghead  banghead  banghead  banghead 

I fly this route 1-3 times a year, this sucks....

I also saw the minus 1 BWI, but is there anything else with CLE?

piercey in CLE  Sad
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
CO777DAL
Posts: 428
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 20):
30 daily flights between DAL and HOU? Is that REALLY necessary?

Add to that CO does about 16 flights a day from DAL-IAH (highest frequency in their system) and 12 DFW-IAH and AA also flies a number of flights DFW-IAH and DFW-HOU. There is a lot of business traffic between Dallas and Houston. Still WN owns that route hands down. If I’m not mistaken WN carries more passengers between Dallas and Houston than CO and AA combined.
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:52 am

Total flight increases/decreases by city:

ABQ: +4
AMA: +1
BWI: -8
BHM: +5
BUF: +1
BUR: +1
MDW: -3
CLE: -2
CMH: +3
DAL: +4
DEN: +14
DTW: -1
ELP: -1
IND: +1
MCI: +1
ISP: -6
LAX: -6
MHT: -1
MAF: -1
BNA: +3
MSY: +8
OAK: -4
OKC: +2
MCO: +1
PHL: -3
PHX: -7
PDX: +1
PVD: -2
RDU: -1
RNO: -3
SMF: +1
STL: +2
SLC: +4
SAT: -1
SAN: -1
SEA: +5
TPA: +2
TUC: +2
IAD: -1
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ShannoninAMA
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:01 am

oh, and just becasue AMA finally got DEN doesnt mean its the end of my rants... Wink

DL for SLC and ATL will still rage on Big grin



Good to hear that MSY is getting some service back  Smile


Shannon
Shipwreck alert. Head on over to Airspaceonline.com.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 49):
Why shouldn't WN use a new route to their advantage such as SEA-DEN to purge off of other airlines?

They should if they can, I'm questioning their ability to do so in markets where both ends are hubs and have large frequent flier bases for the competition. A four way battle without the frequent flier base isn't where I'd go looking for big revenues (WNs apparent goal given all the changes being announced).
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 16):
1 MCO (total 4)

Steve, how many did they op pre-K?

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 26):
Wow....they brought BHM back....interesting, seeing how XE is flying the route.

Still less frequency and seats now than then.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 29):
New Service to Birmingham

Not new, just resumed.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 56):
SEA: +5

Interesting. It's my understanding that WN had (rather publically) decided to hold expansion of SEA in limbo until an arrangement with either another Seattle-area airport or fees at SeaTac were vastly renegotiated. Guessing that's happened?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 59):
Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 16):
1 MCO (total 4)

Steve, how many did they op pre-K?

6.....

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 59):
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 26):
Wow....they brought BHM back....interesting, seeing how XE is flying the route.

Still less frequency and seats now than then.

642 seats daily in either direction pre-K, vs 511 daily once WN resumes service.....

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 59):
It's my understanding that WN had (rather publically) decided to hold expansion of SEA in limbo until an arrangement with either another Seattle-area airport or fees at SeaTac were vastly renegotiated.

negotiation ploys, no doubt  wink 

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
SABE
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 56):
TUC: +2

I think you meant TUS  Wink
TUS-DFW-EZE... can't wait to visit home again!
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting SABE (Reply 61):
I think you meant TUS

WN doesn't fly to Argentina?  Wink
I love ASO!
 
bluejackets
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 30):
I find it interesting that Columbus is seeing growth by Southwest despite Skybus' introduction into the market. It's worthwhile noting, however, that the markets that Southwest is growing are not near any Skybus service, at least not yet.

Yeah, you know there was some talk in another thread that Southwest maybe looking at DAY to help take on Skybus, but this news at least quells that talk a little. It shows a continued focus on CMH.

STL-CMH continues to be a growing market it seems, with American Connection recently adding a 4th daily and now Southwest bumping up to 2X (finally!).
It's funny when I tell people I love planes and they think I'm weird.
 
swacle
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 54):
fly this route 1-3 times a year, this sucks....

I also saw the minus 1 BWI, but is there anything else with CLE?

piercey in CLE

Nothing else for CLE...down from 20 to 18. We now have 7x MDW, 4x BWI, 2x STL, BNA, and MCO, and 1x LAS.

Don WN/CLE
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
vega
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:54 am

At least they're not cutting PIT. They must be very satisfied with the 53% PIT-PHL share (532/day/round trip average) - that's approximately 266 daily each way. Here is a blurb from the Philadelphia Press on this subject, which refers to Kelly stating WN will resume growth later this year at PHL when new facilites become available :
http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...iladelphia-California_flights.html

It's questionable as to how much more domestically WN thinks it can take from US at PHL, unless they are planning something international themeselves or via ATA.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:03 am

I have to admit, I myself am surprised that ISP is losing six flights...what does this bring MacArthur down to? And didn't they just build a new facility there? (rhetorical)
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
BN727flyr
Posts: 61
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting ShannoninAMA (Reply 40):
(BTW that means we can pretty much kiss our b1900s from great lakes to DEN goodbye)

And it's about #[email protected] time, dontcha think??  Big grin
 
catdaddy63
Posts: 227
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:24 am

Nice to see no changes listed for TUL. I'm hoping that service stays consistent as the Wright Amendment restrictions are lifted over the next few years. I have to say I'd be surprised to see 733's go over 735's even though IIRC some of the 733's are older. As a business traveler, I'm curious to hear what they are thinking for those of us that pay full fare most of the time.
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:37 am

the "portfolio" is interesting to me.

they can get my business by adding wifi and electrical outlets, assigned seating, and code sharing with international airlines that allow me to use my FF points to fly internationally.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:54 am

One change/reduction was as to the transcons out of PHL, BWI and so on. Probably most transcon customers can and will choose other airlines, or they can change a/c via other cites, end up on larger a/c and perhaps the use time with such long flights didn't pay off as to WN's style of ops. As to the drop at ISP, that may be due to traffic issues, especially in the summer with weather, that the base is too far out on the outskirts of the NYC metro market, ops costs and so on.
I wouldn't be surprised with some business traveler programs being put into place. Perhaps people who are in a preferred business program would all get 'A' group boarding passes or overriding preference for them, additional flight segment values with their rewards program especially if paying their higher fare rates, easier refunds/rebooking on tickets and similar perks.
 
ABQ747
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 48):
DEN-ABQ has been expected for quite a time. There are already two incumbents on the route, UA x 7 and F9 x 5. Prices are a bit high and ABQ passengers tend to be pretty loyal to WN so it should be pretty safe, but I'm not sure 3 flights a day will cut it for the business travellers. May see additional frequencies soon.

I wonder how UA and F9 are going to respond to this. They better not cut flights.
 
Cactus742
Posts: 142
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 49):
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 48):

DEN-SEA is a little puzzling since there are already three airlines serving this route, each with a hub at one end.

Puzzling Why?

WN does not need a hub to make a route work, this has been proven over and over again with routes like:

SMF-SAN, BUR-SJC, and SNA-SMF

Unlike those intra-California routes, the other airlines flying it have hubs (F9 and UA at DEN, AS at SEA). Therefore there are probably many loyal frequent flyers for those airlines who may not use the WN service.
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

722 732/3/4/5/5/6/7/8/9 744 752/3 763 772/3 788/9 319 320 321 332/3 388 MD82/83/88/90 CR1/2/7/9 E140/145/170/175/190 DH8-1/3 Q400 S340
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5275
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 56):
Total flight increases/decreases by city:
LAX: -6
MHT: -1
MAF: -1
BNA: +3
MSY: +8
OAK: -4

BTW, nice job, SHUP'; I assume cities not listed are "0" net change in # of departures. (This is the kind of thing I do but haven't had a chance yet; I haven't even listened to the web cast...)

A couple of thoughts occur to me. One, and most important and already somewhat discussed: is this seasonal redux or are these permanent? I'm guessing some of each. I have never noticed in the past much regular seasonal adjusting of service by WN. In SAN, there would be some minor weekend redux in some flights during the winter but we have held very consistent in the # of daily departures. And I believe this trend was pretty consistent system-wide.

I'm particularly curious to see if the xld trans-cons return in the Spring and if any new ones appear -- ever. LAX-BWI would not seem like a route with big seasonal market variations, and it doesn't seem that they xld the route because they need the a/c on more productive routes...

Noting OAK's 4 flight redux, I remember back to the SFO announcement where Kelly made a point of declaring that there would be no decrease in OAK (or SJC) services when they re-opened SFO. Of course these disappearing flights, 2 to SAN, 1 to LAX, 1 to BWI, 1 to PHL, 1 to RNO (the ones I know about so far) and there's +1 to TUS (there must more new flights as well) are, for the most part, either part of the "Great Trans-con Culling of 2007" or on routes that were VERY heavily served! Anyway, if I were OAK management right now, I might be reaching for the Pepsid!

I do remain confident that OAK, LAX (and SAN) will continue to see new WN service and these available "slots" will be filled very soon; I don't think there's any shortage of new P-2-P routes that WN will start in 2008.

The DEN increase is good to see yet the SEA route does surprise me a bit (as I said in a post 41 and which was repeated by Alias1024 in post 48); I had been hopeful that SAN would have been connected to DEN by now -- we only have 2 incumbents on the route and we (along with OAK) have had tons of temporary "Sat Only" flights between Lindbergh and DEN!

MSY is apparently now at the point where WN sees opportunity and has the resources available so in comes more service -- wonderful! I hope LA, SD, and Oakland will soon see the return of n/s NO flights as well.

bb
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 69):
the "portfolio" is interesting to me.

they can get my business by adding wifi and electrical outlets, assigned seating, and code sharing with international airlines that allow me to use my FF points to fly internationally.

 rotfl  I think the only thing they will do is eleminate some "Fun Fares", and try to land contracts with large business by offering "fun fares" in bulk to large corporations. We're not talking Singapore Airlines here for goodness sakes! Last time I checked I could not open my laptop on WN flight without it getting crushed, my IPOD batteries last longer than any flight that WN has and you sure as heck aren't getting wifi for free! The best you should hope for is an extra bag of peanuts. Maybe for you the'll let you fly ATA to Hawaii for 1 FF award instead of two. Portfolio, HA HA HA, I'll believe that when I see it. Still I remain loyal to WN because they don't rip me off like some of the other airlines!
 
Lexy
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:44 am

Not bad for BNA considering they have cut a few in the past from here. Too bad it's another flight to freaking Chicago though. UGH! The increased frequencies to Philly and Denver are welcomed though! I just wonder if F9 will respond to this in some way here?
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 71):
wonder how UA and F9 are going to respond to this. They better not cut flights.

Why not? There's suddenly a lot of additional capacity on the route.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
roseflyer
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 10):
2008 737-700 net total fleet cut from 34 to 19...

Do you know if that means they will receive 34 737-700s and retire 15 or could those extra planes be 735s or 733s?

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 12):
They just said 9 aircraft have leases that end in Q4 2007 and those may be candidates, they didnt outright say all would be deferrals... they discussed it just after i posted.

It would be interesting to see WN defer 737NG deliveries. They are by far the biggest customer for the plane. I saw 4 in production/flight testing today alone. The 737 is sold out for about 3 years, so some airline would be happy to get some delivery dates pushed up if WN will relax its relentless delivery schedule.
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Acey
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting Lexy (Reply 75):
I just wonder if F9 will respond to this in some way here?

How much capacity do they have to expand? Nothing here is a suprise, they knew it was coming.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 77):
Do you know if that means they will receive 34 737-700s and retire 15 or could those extra planes be 735s or 733s?

I don't know. The OP said back in reply #12 that 9 aircraft were due to come off leases in the 4th quarter of 2007, and the inference was that those 9 could be part of the 15 . I don't have exact numbers, but IIRC only 20% (plus or minus) of our fleet is leased, and if some of those are the ex-AA and ex-Morris Air -300s, they're all of the vintage that our N315-N330 are, so they're probably builds from 1985-1986 and thus 21-22 years old.

This is all speculation, of course. There's also a possibility (theoretically) that another Trust could be set-up to accept delivery of the aircraft, much as we did right after 9/11 and new aircraft were delivered to MHV. (They sat there for a few months, until we accepted delivery at MHV, and put them into service as needed.).

I'm wondering if anything will be announced at the party tomorrow....  scratchchin 
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ShannoninAMA
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting BN727flyr (Reply 67):
And it's about #[email protected] time, dontcha think?? Big grin

Holy crap! its happened i think! Heres the excerpt from the local paper




"Southwest Airlines, the Texas Panhandle's busiest passenger air carrier, announced Wednesday it will run two nonstop flights each day from Amarillo to Denver starting Nov. 4.Gary Molberg, president and chief executive officer for the Amarillo Chamber of Commerce, hoped the added routes would make travel more efficient for local passengers looking to connect with other flights in a major hub.Before the change, flying to Denver meant either being routed through Dallas or Houston, or traveling directly on smaller, slower-moving prop flights operated by Great Lakes Airlines.
Tickets went on sale Wednesday on Southwest's Web site. Fares begin at $25 one-way.Flights on the route will originate either in Dallas or Houston.Southwest is confident the Panhandle has a strong-enough passenger base to justify the new flights, spokesman Chris Mainz said. Last year, 445,066 passengers flew out of Rick Husband Amarillo International Airport, 267,108 of them aboard Southwest jets.Wednesday's announcement came as Southwest CEO Gary Kelly unveiled the company's forecast for the upcoming year and its fall flight schedule.Among the airline's strategies are plans to fly more planes to key growth cities, while reducing or eliminating 39 routes in markets such as Orange County, Calif., and Long Island, N.Y.Southwest has been trying to grow its presence in Denver, a hub for competitor United Airlines, since it first touched down there in January 2006. Great Lakes, a regional partner of United, recently retooled its flight schedule and now goes to Denver from Amarillo once a day.
Amarillo Mayor Debra McCartt was uncertain how Southwest's move would affect Great Lakes, but credited the Cheyenne, Wyo., airline company for filling a void in the meantime."



From ten flights a day to two flights a day....all with the announcement of WN services....  dollarsign 
Shipwreck alert. Head on over to Airspaceonline.com.
 
Lexy
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:19 am

Quoting Acey (Reply 78):
How much capacity do they have to expand? Nothing here is a suprise, they knew it was coming.

I'm not too sure and anything I said would mostly be just opinion in the first place. I think F9 has around 4 flights a day to Denver from here and the occasional CUN flight and that's it.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
WestWing
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 79):
I don't have exact numbers, but IIRC only 20% (plus or minus) of our fleet is leased,

From the last proxy statement the numbers were...

"Southwest operated a total of 481 Boeing 737 aircraft as of December 31, 2006, of which 84 and 9 were under operating and capital leases, respectively. The remaining 388 aircraft were owned"

This year, looks like N550WN and N551WN (the "other aircraft") were both leased.

The plan, at the time, was to take delivery of 37 new-build 737s in 2007, which would have meant 520 aircraft at yr end.

[Edited 2007-06-28 05:13:50]
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Tornado82
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting ShannoninAMA (Reply 80):


From ten flights a day to two flights a day....all with the announcement of WN services.... dollarsign

So losing a ton of schedule flexibility is a good thing?  Confused  no 
 
ABQ747
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 76):
Why not? There's suddenly a lot of additional capacity on the route.

I'd rather not see any flights cut. I just hope ABQ can support all these additional flights.
 
jhooper
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:19 pm

Where else would Southwest have to start expanding besides the transoceanic arena? They'll soon outgrow the business model that's made them so successful for 30+ years. Eventually they'll end up just like any other legacy carrier and in big trouble once the times go afoul again.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
ShannoninAMA
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 83):

So losing a ton of schedule flexibility is a good thing?  no 

Well, to be honest, They always have charged rediculously high fares. Instead of doing AMA-DEN on Great lakes, most people had been forced to do AMA-DFW-DEN on AA (and save money!). So it isnt really a price to pay. Besides, the WN flights seem to be scheduled fairly convenient  Smile


Shannon
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Acey
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 85):
Where else would Southwest have to start expanding besides the transoceanic arena?

I'd imagine they come to Canada or fly to Mexico before they go overseas...
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 84):
I'd rather not see any flights cut. I just hope ABQ can support all these additional flights.

I think ABQ can fill the seats to DEN as long as prices come down a little. What would be funny is if F9 swapped the RJs for Lynx and used the economics of the Q400 to undercut WN on the route.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
rwsea
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 59):
Interesting. It's my understanding that WN had (rather publically) decided to hold expansion of SEA in limbo until an arrangement with either another Seattle-area airport or fees at SeaTac were vastly renegotiated. Guessing that's happened?

That's what they were threatening, but ovbiously they didn't follow through - SEA is just too profitable to ignore. There hasn't been any news about fee renegotiations, so I doubt that's the case.

I'm surprised that WN still hasn't added any SEA/PDX to Southern California routes. SJC is as far South in California that they fly non-stop as it currently is.

Should be interesting to see what "enhancements" WN adds to their FF program, and what they have in store for business travellers (maybe something like the ability to pre-reserve exit rows?). I currently refuse to give them my business, but that might change depending on the extent of their changes.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting WestWing (Reply 82):
"Southwest operated a total of 481 Boeing 737 aircraft as of December 31, 2006, of which 84 and 9 were under operating and capital leases, respectively. The remaining 388 aircraft were owned"

93 of 388 is 23.9%--I was close based on the year-end 2006 numbers....  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 84):
I'd rather not see any flights cut. I just hope ABQ can support all these additional flights.

That's a lot of additional seats coming in. Maybe they can all get decent loads - but can they make any money doing it?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ckfred
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:42 pm

It was either Mike Boyd or Ray Neidl that, last year, pointed out that for WN to maintain its growth in revenue and profit, it had to keep increasing flights, either on existing routes, new city pairs, or new cities. WN's labor costs are now comparable to or even higher than some of the legacy carriers, and its fuel hedges will decrease every year.

The projection was that WN simply couldn't maintain its growth in aircraft and daily operations, because it would reach a saturation point.

It looks to me that WN has hit that point, since it's now comtemplating some initiatives that its competitors are doing, namely charging fees for services beyond the price of the ticket.

Granted, WN isn't charging for curbside check-in or fees for changing tickets, but the airline was built on the notion that all passengers will be treated in an egalitarian manner. Now, it looks as though road warriors, the bread and butter of any airline, will be able to get extra services, for a fee.
 
VictorKilo
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:12 pm

I'm wondering if the DEN-AMA flights are a preemptive move to keep Frontier from starting Lynx service to AMA.

I'm wondering if the draw-down of PHX flights, and no net changes to LAS flights, are in part a possible reaction to the rumored draw-down of US/HP flights at LAS, with the aircraft shifting to PHX.

I'm also noticing that none of the schedule changes, including additions of new flights, affect new new service at SFO. Perhaps with 6 fewer flights at LAX, maybe WN is getting ready to start 6x or more daily service on the LAX-SFO route.

This is all speculation on my part.
 
WestWing
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 90):
93 of 388 is 23.9%--I was close

Actually you were closer than that - correct calculation for yr end 2006 should be 93/481 which is 19.3%.
After today's delivery of ship 281 (with ships 550/551 being leased) it will be 95/500 or 19%.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
ShannoninAMA
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 93):
'm wondering if the DEN-AMA flights are a preemptive move to keep Frontier from starting Lynx service to AMA.

I had thought of that too, but am wondering.......if they were serious about starting AMA, why hadnt they struck earlier? All theyve had that involved AMA for the past 5 years is the codeshare to DEN via Great lakes.


Oh, and i love our local paper  silly 

"Our experts believe that the new Southwest service to denver will spark interests of rivals United and Frontier, and possibly encourage them to start service to Amarillo"  silly 


Obviously the "Experts" dont know what overcapacity is Big grin

I still kind of wish Frontier would have jumped the gun earlier, as i am a big fan of their product, but WN isnt half bad either.  Smile



Shannon  Smile
Shipwreck alert. Head on over to Airspaceonline.com.
 
jeffinbwi
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 93):



Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 93):
I'm wondering if the DEN-AMA flights are a preemptive move to keep Frontier from starting Lynx service to AMA.

I think the reason for AMA DEN is we needed a better route from DAL to DEN. I recently worked a flight from DAL to AMA and LAS, we had close to 80 people stay on in AMA to continue to LAS. Ill bet those new routes will be DAL AMA DEN and probably continue on to SLC or SEA.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 49):

WN does not need a hub to make a route work, this has been proven over and over again with routes like:

SMF-SAN, BUR-SJC, and SNA-SMF

Those routes are all intra-california, and are not necessarily good for predicting other behavior.

From Southwest's call, they are expecting record record load this month.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 97):
Those routes are all intra-california, and are not necessarily good for predicting other behavior

The quoted text I responded to was in regards to non hub flying with WN..

Thus the examples I provided..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
davidlc3
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:30 am

RE: Southwest Hits The Brakes On Growth

Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 21):

So let me get this straight - they are on the verge of not making as much money, are looking at deferring a/c, etc. and they are putting their extra lift into an already saturated market that is prone to weather and where they compete with 2 serious players?

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