Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
tonytifao
Topic Author
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:11 am

Travel to Brasil is a nightmare...............

I'm here at GRU for over 18 hours. Airport is insane. I got some pictures, I will post them later.

If you plan to travel to Brazil, I would recommend you don't  Smile
 
AF086
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Tonytifao (Thread starter):
If you plan to travel to Brazil, I would recommend you don't

I wouldn't say that. I'd say: avoid connecting connrcting at GRU.
 boxedin 
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:27 am

It would help if you would be a little more specific about the problems. Outside of slow process of clearing customs, I have never had a problem at GRU.
Tailwinds!!!
 
AF086
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 2):
It would help if you would be a little more specific about the problems. Outside of slow process of clearing customs, I have never had a problem at GRU.

Weather (CGH, GRU and VCP closed due to heavy fog) and when the airports reopened the takeoff clearences (at GRU) were given only with 7 minute intervals because of the peak traffic registrated because of the reopening of GRU/CGH/VCP.

[Edited 2007-06-30 21:41:57]
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:47 am

Will it be cleared up by Monday ? I'm supposed to be flying down to GRU.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
AF086
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
Will it be cleared up by Monday ? I'm supposed to be flying down to GRU.

Brazilian authorities estimate the delays will be gone later today but I don't expect things to get back on track till tomorrow.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting Tonytifao (Thread starter):
If you plan to travel to Brazil, I would recommend you don't

= Now thats dramatic ... stop watching so much of Globo's telenovellas  Smile. A little weather related exacerbation of a congested airspace is hardly a reason to stop flying to one of the most amazing countries out there.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
racercoup
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:48 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 6):
= Now thats dramatic ... stop watching so much of Globo's telenovellas . A little weather related exacerbation of a congested airspace is hardly a reason to stop flying to one of the most amazing countries out there.

I think he knows that, he's from Brazil.......
 
tonytifao
Topic Author
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 6):
= Now thats dramatic ...

Not dramatic. On Saturday afternoon, clear sunny day. my plane going to CNF had arrived in GRU 4 hours before it again departed. ATC also announced in the afternoon a problem with their radars. BUNCH OF BS!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:03 am

I just come back from Brazil.

Flew LGA-ATL-GIG, and arrived GIG 10 minutes BEFORE the schedule.

Flew GIG-GRU-JFK, and arrived JFK 4 hours AFTER the schedule.

No further comments... see my trip reports in two days (July 4)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8524
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:45 pm

CGH's main runway is back in ops, so that should help reduce delays a bit, especially when it's raining.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:01 pm

GRU is closed since July 2nd 10:20 PM... now almost 3 AM and forecast says it should open only by 7 AM

Another day of delays in Brazil.

CGH probably will be closed during the first hours.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
FMAL
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:16 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:59 pm

Guys,

The authorities keep blaming the weather, in a (sometimes) successful attempt to make us believe they could to nothing about it. A lie.

Why doesn't O'Hare, with its massive snowfalls never close? Why doesn't JFK or LGA or MIA (other than hurricane) close? They have the necessary infrestructure to avoid closing, despite severe weather conditions. The Brazilian airports, in the hands of the ever corrupt Infraero, has known problems with ILS, VORs, etc, and the also known lack of will to fix them (surely because there is little money to be made from overpricing equipment maintenance).

We as Brazilians are hostages to the corruption, inefficiency, impunity that are now a constant in Brazilian politics and every day life. The recent situation with the airports is no different. If only we had fully operational ILS at GRU (correct me if I'm wrong, but I know the were down recently), a decent connection between VCP and the city of São Paulo that would make that airport a true option to travellers......if only we were a serious country, maybe things would be different.

Its getting harder and harder to live here.....at least for me.
 
tonytifao
Topic Author
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting FMAL (Reply 12):
Its getting harder and harder to live here.....at least for me.

Same here. I love my country Brasil, I travel here about 1-2 a month. But it is getting harder to live here.

I have been through some much worse fog in SFO and even in GRU and planes were landing and taking off.

I'm supposed to fly out with GOL at 6am from CNF to GRU. Then DL to ATL in the morning. I doubt I will make my connection.
 
tonytifao
Topic Author
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:20 pm

Oh, and you have to love our Infraero site, the only place you can check flight status (correct me if I'm wrong).

If you need to check a status of a flight and it's past midnight, you can't see previous days flights.
 
AF086
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting FMAL (Reply 12):
The authorities keep blaming the weather, in a (sometimes) successful attempt to make us believe they could to nothing about it. A lie.

This time it was really the weather hence the METAR reports at the time:

SBGR 030200 08003KT 0000 R09R/0200N R09L////// R027R/////R027L/0200N FG VV/// 11/11 Q1025=
SBGR 030500 00000KT 0000 R09R/0125N R09L////// R27R/0200N R27L////// FG SKC 10/10 Q1025=

GRU has ILS Cat II on their runways but it just wasn't enough.

Quote:

a decent connection between VCP and the city of São Paulo that would make that airport a true option to travellers......if only we were a serious country, maybe things would be different.

Even VCP is closing these days (it used to be really rare). My opinion is: the best option is build up traffic at other airports such as GIG and CNF much less prone to facing bad weather and with plenty of room for expansion.

PS: The native brazilians warned about GRU...as we know "Cumbica" means "low cloud".

[Edited 2007-07-03 16:29:03]
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
FMAL
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:16 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 13):
I'm supposed to fly out with GOL at 6am from CNF to GRU. Then DL to ATL in the morning. I doubt I will make my connection.

All I can do is wish you good luck my friend. I am off to my honeymoon trip on Nov. 11th. I now, many people will say that its a long time from now, but since we live in the country where things seem to always get a bit worse, never better, I am worried. I constantly check AA's website to see if the 904 (GIG-MIA) is delayed. Hasn't been for now, I wish it stays this way until November.

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 14):
Oh, and you have to love our Infraero site, the only place you can check flight status (correct me if I'm wrong).

If you need to check a status of a flight and it's past midnight, you can't see previous days flights.

A short while back, there was no flight status on any Brazilian Airport, so that was a little improvement. But of course it couldn't be a great improvement, it had to be something "meia boca" (half way), so yeah, no checking the previous date for us! I actually don't rely on the info on that website, is it reliable?
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting FMAL (Reply 16):
I constantly check AA's website to see if the 904 (GIG-MIA) is delayed. Hasn't been for now, I wish it stays this way until November.

FMAL, AA904 as well as DL61 use to depart on time.

I'm a Frequent flier on DL60 ATL-GIG, and on two flights during the past 3 months, i face early arrivals on both ! Last Saturday while i'm waiting for my bag i realize AA2919 already arrived on time. AA905 just arrived exactly on time.

I can say to you that every day, more people is looking for flights to GIG to avoid GRU delays.

Those who select one of the two GIG-US flights yesterdays get on their destinations on time.... AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ flights departs at 12 AM today !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AF086
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:07 am

It's going to be a long night...

SBGR 040000 - 042400 04005KT 3500 BR SKC PROB40 0412 00000KT 0200 FG OVC001 BECMG 1315 34005KT 8000 NSW TN10/09Z TX22/18Z RMK PGP=

[Edited 2007-07-04 02:32:37]
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
FMAL
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:16 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
FMAL, AA904 as well as DL61 use to depart on time.

I'm a Frequent flier on DL60 ATL-GIG, and on two flights during the past 3 months, i face early arrivals on both ! Last Saturday while i'm waiting for my bag i realize AA2919 already arrived on time. AA905 just arrived exactly on time.

Good news "xará". Imagine starting off your honeymoon hanging around the airport (and GIG's TPS1 of all places) for hours because your flight is delayed. I just checked today again the AA website, 904 departed 5 minutes ahead of schedule.

I'm sure the problems are mainly due to the aircraft that would fly the route not being able to arrive in GRU in time, or they are at GRU but grounded due to weather. GIG does not suffer the same severe fog that GRU has, but at GRU the indians tried to warn them, as AF086 indicated above "Cumbica = low cloud", but of course the government back in the 80's new better....
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting FMAL (Reply 19):
Good news "xará". Imagine starting off your honeymoon hanging around the airport (and GIG's TPS1 of all places) for hours because your flight is delayed. I just checked today again the AA website, 904 departed 5 minutes ahead of schedule.

You wont find delays on International non-stop flights to/from GIG (only possible if you fly flights like JJ as the plane come from São Paulo), but in the others, you can relax and enjoy the flight !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
FMAL
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:16 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
You wont find delays on International non-stop flights to/from GIG (only possible if you fly flights like JJ as the plane come from São Paulo), but in the others, you can relax and enjoy the flight !

Felipe

Even better news.....sorry for the late reply, but work prevents me from spending the time I would like to spend on A.net!
 
cmtehori
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:53 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:07 am

By the way, according to Folha Online, an ILS CAT III is not on Infraero´s plan, at least until the end of 2008. Every year is the same thing during winter: morning flights going to GIG (specially AZ, IB, and DL105).

Here´s the link
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/fsp/cotidian/ff0407200704.htm


It has happened a few times that the OCC in ATL delayed 105 to depart, once the forecast for GRU was fog, and the ILS for 09R was out of service, therefore only a VOR procedure was available. Not to mention the serious problems with BCO VOR all the time, what a nightmare!  Angry
727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:07 am

CmteHori, an ILS III would not solve the problem !

It allows some planes to land, but domestic flights not ! Even with ILS II several domestic planes are not in conditions to use it (not certified).

I use the say get a huge fog during the morning in GRU is the same of a snow storm in ORD or JFK, it's lucky ! JFK and ORD use to handle with snow for decades very well even if they need to close the airport for hours.

The problem is the huge concentration in São Paulo of international flights, 75% of all flights... it's the cause of the major mess!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
CmteHori, an ILS III would not solve the problem !

It allows some planes to land, but domestic flights not ! Even with ILS II several domestic planes are not in conditions to use it (not certified).

Yes, but the larger aircraft like 737s and A320s are CAT III capable, but not all pilots have the necessary training.

While not all aircraft would benefit from a CAT III ILS, it should really lessen the problem.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
The problem is the huge concentration in São Paulo of international flights, 75% of all flights... it's the cause of the major mess!

Most international airlines landing in GRU (European and US) are in conditions to use ILS III and therefore means that this would at least solve part of the problem. I have the view that the investment in the ILS III for GRU is necessary. LHR, AMS all handle operations during heavy fog because they have ILS III. If TAM is not certified for ILS III this is their problem, and they have to divert to another airport.

Concentration should not be a problem per se, simply because for example nobody complains that LHR, AMS, CDG...JNB, KUL, MAD, FRA....endless list.... concentrate all flights of their respective countries. GRU is getting a lot of flights and a solution is to tackle the demand with better infrastructure and not curtail the demand. Airlines should be free to fly where they think they could run profitable operations.

In fact, the problem of concentration is in CGH and not in GRU. The problem Brazil is facing nowadays is more related to domestic flights rather than international flights. Infraero itself this week stated that CGH is 80% of the problem. I agree that something must be done regarding CGH which is a major bottleneck, but GRU should continue attracting more flights and operating as hub and therefore needs investment - GRU T3 is long overdue, for example.

Rgs,
 
cmtehori
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:53 pm

RE: More Sao Paulo (GRU/CGH) Airport Problems

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
CmteHori, an ILS III would not solve the problem !

It allows some planes to land, but domestic flights not ! Even with ILS II several domestic planes are not in conditions to use it (not certified).

 checkmark 

Lipe, I totally agree, but it should lessen the problem. I understand that any initiative to improve air traffic flow is welcome, besides....

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
Most international airlines landing in GRU (European and US) are in conditions to use ILS III and therefore means that this would at least solve part of the problem



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
If TAM is not certified for ILS III this is their problem, and they have to divert to another airport.

Everybody knows GRU has always had a major low ceiling/visibility issue. Also, I couldn't agree more to LipeGIG when he says that 75% of intl flights are concentrated in GRU and it generetes a huge mess. But even if only the Intl certified aircraft/crew could land, it would help a lot! We're talking about 5 AA flts, 2 CO, 2 DL, 2 UA, 1AZ, 1IB, 1AF, 1LX, 1JL, and as we all know the list is nearly endless. Lucky KL, gets in GRU at 500PM and leaves at 640PM, I guess those beautiful 777's have never seen the GRU fog!  Wink

Regards
Carlos
727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos