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BWIA 772
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Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:57 pm

Hello all again  old 

Sorry but it seems that with the server issues that airliners have been having the original part 17 was closed!! As soon as I realized this I sent 2 messages to the mods along with posting in the site related forum but I have yet to get a response. So I have decided that instead of waiting on them I think it is best that we just do a replacement thread and move on!!!

CTAC update
After 16 threads we have a total of 2642 replies with the addition of the 15 replies that part 17 the original received the grand total is now 2657 replies. On September 03 2007 Caribbean Aviation will celebrate its first anniversary and it would be nice if we can have 3000 replies by then to get reach that we will need your help!!!

Here are the links to our last 5 threads along with a link to the original Part 17!!
Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (by BWIA 772 Jul 1 2007 in Civil Aviation) Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 16 (by MD90fan May 28 2007 in Civil Aviation) 15 Up!-Caribbean/Caribe/Caraïbes Aviation (by MD90fan May 11 2007 in Civil Aviation) Caribbean/Caribe/Caraïbes Aviation Part 14 (by MD90fan Apr 28 2007 in Civil Aviation) Caribbean/Caribe/Caraïbes Aviation Part 13 (by MD90fan Apr 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)


Recap of what happened in the original part 17

    The majority of the thread was about the high fares now that LI has a monopoly on intra regional routes!!
    8B775ZQ responded to the fact that PM of St Vincent Ralph Gonsales chastised other islands for not putting money into LI by saying that LI for them represented a bad investment due to the years of mis management!

    Caribbean484 noted that under the current market conditions i.e a monopoly LI will not be willing to lower their fares, LI costs were high and that if they wanted competition the entry of American Eagle should provide competition and lower fares. He also noted that NK is to offer JFK and FLL flights to POS and that he does not think that they along with DL who are suppose to launch JFK flights to POS will last in the market!

    Captiank noted that the presence of American Eagle should result in lower fares and the airline would prove to be a tough competitor even tougher than 8B!!

    Westindian425 noted that NK may be able to do something in the POS market and that Skybus decision to go into NAS was an interesting one!!

    Albird87 noted that KX had a current load factor of 65% on the recently re launched JFK route and that the load factor and frequency should increase. He also posed the question if the 733 could do the route without restrictions?

    BWIA 772 in his reply about that LI noted that Gonsales did have a point in that if the other islands contributed to LI the airline could have been restructure in the manner as BW/CAL and this would have resulted in an airline with much better cost. He also stated that this method though costly seemed to be the best method in terms of time and its ability to provide a Caribbean Airline with the proper foundation need to build a viable carrier on. Finally BWIA 772 noted that in his humble opinion that the current fare issue high lighted the need to balance cheap fares with the need to make money noting that in the past that Caribbean carriers have had cheap fares good loads but loosing alot of money!!

    Beeweel15 posed the following questions

    • Why Caribbean Carriers cannot balance cheap fares and make money[
    • Why in the Caribbean the best method of restructuring an airline is the most expensive when the same thing can be achieved at a lower cost.


    He also noted that the airlines coming to POS were getting huge concessions to operate those routes.


Ok guys here you have it if you think that I may have misrepresented any of your replies please say so as I wrote them based on my interpretation of what was stated.


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Regards
The Flying Fish
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:34 pm

Beeweel15

First of all I do not think that POS has legislation that would facilitate similar change under chapter 11!! I know that BGI does but for the other islands I do not know.. Also I think you are missing some key advantage that was most likely led the BW board to pick the option they did which was that option provided the quickest method in terms of time to effect a cultural change and also gave the management cost control that they could not have gotten under any other method!!!

Lets face it to change BW culture was a herculean task by no stretch of the imagination and the lead time from the implementation of a cultural change programme and its visible result would have been long and not as instantaneous like what CAL has done!! Before you come with your old arguments about the people who were over looked etc you need to ask your self how much control these people had over their fellow employees etc and the willingness of the management of BW to change?? Anyone who has studied management or is a manager (and has read about organizational behavior and human resource management) would know effecting cultural change is not easy and given the resistance that the union provided was an accurate trailer of how a cultural change at the airline would have gone!!!

I think I will let 484 deal with your statements about DL NK etc however I would just say that given the amount of money that POS invested in CAL and the level of competition that exists especially on the MIA and JFK routes I find it hard to believe that they would turn around and give money to DL and NK to operate to POS if it was to TAB it would be understandable but to POS please!!!!

The following is reliable info

Apparently because of the nature of LI routes i.e the island hopping combined with the presence of Sahara dust the time between engine maintenance is half that compared to other dash 8 fleets in other parts of the world. In other words they have to do twice as much maintenance on their engines. Then there is the issue of taxes which falls in the arena of government!! This is not to say that they are justified as this does raise questions about the suitability of the Dash to the route and are they other aircrafts that can handle LI routes' need.

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:39 pm

Very good BWIA772! I'm sure the West Indies community will appreciate the change of poster  sly 

Not much that you didn't put  checkmark 


  • Sun Country (SY) is going to launch a DFW-MBJ route in competition with AA  checkmark 
  • Cayman Airways (KX) has commenced service on the GCM-JFK route  checkmark 
  • Delta is rumored to be looking at starting a FLL-PAP flight (Yes, Haiti)  checkmark 
  • Canadian LCC Westjet has embarked on a new Caribbean expansion: Toronto-Montego Bay, Puerta Plata, Punta Cana are included  checkmark 



Cheers,
Devan  wave 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
8b775zq
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:07 pm

BWIA772 that is exactly the question i asked in the original part 17 thread. Does the twin otter still have a place at LI. I know some of their flights ANU-SKB and ANU-DOM and also to TFFR are operated by Carib Aviation. Let's face it some of LI's routes cannot support a DHC8 so a smaller aircraft such as twin otter might be better suited to the task. As for the question of govt taxes remember the years gone by of LI not paying up to the regional govt's what they owed in landing fees. This combined with the fact that LI was constantly asking for money to be bailed out is why i think most govt's stayed away from investing in the new LI. Remember these days the islands are focussing on the tourism industry and as such they are funneling whatever money they have available into building up the infrastructure. On another when/ if CALX comes on stream will they focus on the T&T airbridge or will they expand to a more regional presence?
 
8b775zq
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:15 pm

You know what....now that i think of it, LI would've been better off being a feeder to CAL ala AA/AE. They could've kept their colours and just added the "operated by LIAT " stickers just like Executive does for AE and leave the majority of intra-regional travel to 8B. But then again what do i know?
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:21 pm

Any idea on how Constellation from T&T is doing on their POS-CUR-PTY route?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
beeweel15
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
Any idea on how Constellation from T&T is doing on their POS-CUR-PTY route?

Firstly, It has not started as yet

Secondly what happened to the Original Part 17 it is still up and running with only 15 posts.
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 1):
Apparently because of the nature of LI routes i.e the island hopping combined with the presence of Sahara dust the time between engine maintenance is half that compared to other dash 8 fleets in other parts of the world. In other words they have to do twice as much maintenance on their engines. Then there is the issue of taxes which falls in the arena of government!! This is not to say that they are justified as this does raise questions about the suitability of the Dash to the route and are they other aircrafts that can handle LI routes' need.

True, LI flies at an average of fl200 to fl240 and the cause on these engines were terrible. But its still no excuse, people in this region are tired of excuses in our poor aviation sector.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Thread starter):
He also noted that the airlines coming to POS were getting huge concessions to operate those routes.

This is never so. There is enough competition on the JFK run. NK will do LGA-FLL-POS like AA does LGA-MIA-POS. However, CAL is expanding its JFK presence, and then you have Travelspan and Primus/Constellation. WIth DL doing direct nonstop, I don't see it working out for them.
AA and NK can't compete on the JFK run so flights have to go throught their main HUB at MIA and FLL respectively.

As for NK, they, Travelspan and Constellation will have to battle it out in FLL, it would be interesting.
All ah we is one family
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 3):

I agree with what you saying in terms of the aircraft however I think you are forgetting some critical facts. It is only with in the last 2-3 years that LI has rationalized its route structure!! Before that LI like BW was a typical government carrier, too much staff, under capitalized and force to fly route for political benefits. Many of these routes were suppose to be have been subsidized but the airline got the money. I think it would do you better to look at the LIAT 1974 LTD as a state run company so the following theory would have to be applied "A mandate has been given for the company to run like a real business, however there are not enough resources to get the job done and any financial mandate comes a distant second to political directives " So basically the state that LI was in is of there own making to a certain extent but the shareholders have to take some the blame. Like with BW/CAL there seems to be a really genuine effort at trying to make the airline a viable one.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 4):

I have stated something similar to that on many occasions. CAL/POS did make an offer to LI just before they signed the agreement but that was rejected because it would have cost the shareholders and more importantly I do not think there is much trust between them and POS given the failed 2004 merger talk. In addition IMHO any proposal which includes taking control over LI will be rejected. That is why I think a Air France KLM type of merger would work!

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 6):
Secondly what happened to the Original Part 17 it is still up and running with only 15 posts.

The post 17 was closed because of site related problems

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 8):
I have stated something similar to that on many occasions. CAL/POS did make an offer to LI just before they signed the agreement but that was rejected because it would have cost the shareholders and more importantly I do not think there is much trust between them and POS given the failed 2004 merger talk. In addition IMHO any proposal which includes taking control over LI will be rejected.

yeah it was. But I agree witht eh gov't of POS. In the first place that was going to be a disaster if LI and BWIA was going to merge since the gov't gave BWIA US$50m already and was looking to give US$250m for a complete resturecturing. Adding LI to that would bring the cost to a good US$300m+.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Thread starter):
The majority of the thread was about the high fares now that LI has a monopoly on intra regional routes!!
8B775ZQ responded to the fact that PM of St Vincent Ralph Gonsales chastised other islands for not putting money into LI by saying that LI for them represented a bad investment due to the years of mis management

And again, I hear SVG's PM point, however competition is good for any market. It shows how well an airline can handel the presure and pax don't have to take crap from one airline. So IMHO LI should not be immuned from competition just because we are looking for Caribbean unity.
All ah we is one family
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:29 am

A quick BZE update.....

There was a bomb scare (bad prank) on the CO EWR flight on Saturday....Flight was already spooling up for take up and had to return to the terminal for a 5 hour check. CO not happy!

DL after upgrading ( before it even started) its new LAX-BZE flight from a 738 to a 752 have had great success with it and are bringing it back in Nov. IMHO..they ought just keep it going as it is a strictly O&D flight full of BelAms (Belizean Americans) of which there are many many in LA...and sept is the busiest travel time for them. To get all the word of mouth momentum and then take it away for 3 months is ridiculous.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 3):
I know some of their flights ANU-SKB and ANU-DOM and also to TFFR are operated by Carib Aviation. Let's face it some of LI's routes cannot support a DHC8 so a smaller aircraft such as twin otter might be better suited to the task

We going back in time.. LIAT used to operate twin otters but they rid themselves of it, along with the HS748 in an order to simply their fleet. I think they shouldn't consider reaquiring them, and leave the twin otter suited routes to codeshare partners. We have to learn to delegate things in the Caribbean, we can't do it all by ourselves.
Look Up
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:08 am

Ok guys its a shame but I only just looked at the BGI papers today and apparently Gonsales rant worked UVF is now prepared to give LI marketing support.
Eagles Soar!
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 10):
DL after upgrading ( before it even started) its new LAX-BZE flight from a 738 to a 752 have had great success with it and are bringing it back in Nov. IMHO..they ought just keep it going as it is a strictly O&D flight full of BelAms (Belizean Americans) of which there are many many in LA...

Are there any Guatemalans or Mexicans likely to use that LAX-BZE flight too?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
trintocan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:15 am

LI operated the Twin Otters up until the mid 1990s. They were used on routes to the Grenadines in particular and when LI sold them off they stopped serving those destinations. A typical route was GND - Carriacou - Union - Cannouan - Mustique - SVD - UVF or SLU. When Bequia's airport opened LI started to fly there but by 1996 they dropped all of the smaller islands along with UVF; there they concentrated on SLU. It would seem a difficult proposition to return to a 2-type fleet just to serve them when SVG Air and Air Mustique provide alternative services there.

POS is a booming market right now and hence the attraction for many US carriers. Remember too that the Caribbean is a very strong and steady market from the US, both in terms of VFR (family) links and tourism (and business in the cases of POS, KIN, SJU and BGI). In the past Pan Am, Eastern and later AA were strong in the region but the disappearance of the former 2 left AA with a virtual stranglehold on the market; indeed their Caribbean ops were among their most profitable. With the market growing somewhat there is room for the other airlines who have decided to give AA a run for their money. The decline of BW has provided more openings for these airlines. If Caribbean Airlines recuperated BW's strength and market share then some of the newcomers could be threatened. It would be unlikely that the Government would pay the US airlines incentives after having bailed out BW!

TrinToCan.
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yellowtail
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 13):
Are there any Guatemalans or Mexicans likely to use that LAX-BZE flight too?

Mimimal at best....cheaper to fly directly to GUA/CUN from LAX
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 15):
Mimimal at best....cheaper to fly directly to GUA/CUN from LAX

I was asking for Chetumal Mexicans or Guatemalans from Tikal, Livington or Puerto Barrios.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
I was asking for Chetumal Mexicans or Guatemalans from Tikal, Livington or Puerto Barrios.

Answer stands.

If you have to fly/drive to your final desitation....cheaper to do so from GUA (with NK, DL, UA, TA) and then take a cheap flight to FRS ....ditto for Chetumal and CUN except that it is only a 2 hour drive now max.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
bloodyrascal
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:57 am

west jet also announced that they will start seasonal service to NAS from two more Canadian cities Halifax and Calgary. Great to see a connection to eastern Canada. All those bahamians in halifax for university great to see that route start up finally its going to be sucessfull
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 18):
west jet also announced that they will start seasonal service to NAS from two more Canadian cities Halifax and Calgary. Great to see a connection to eastern Canada. All those bahamians in halifax for university great to see that route start up finally its going to be sucessfull

The route is going to be powered by tourists going to The Bahamas for sunny weather, white water beaches, tourist attractions. Canjet did YHZ-NAS charters periodically during their short stay at Nassau.


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bloodyrascal
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:21 am

Why did they stop if they still serve NAS-YYZ?
 
bloodyrascal
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:18 am

Also i forgot to mention due to the pleasing loadfactors Westjet has been getting servicing NAS they are going to increase the flight freequency to a daily flight. Good competiton with Air Canada, Skyservice, and Canjet on that route
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 6):
Firstly, It has not started as yet

Beewee15, Constellation HAS started POS-CUR-PTY-CUR-POS flights since last week wednesday. I took pictures of their 757 here in CUR! Somehow nobody seems to care about this airline starting the long rumoured POS-CUR connection and not Caribbean Airlines. Why has Caribbean Airlines passed on the CUR route each time. Caribbean Star started the route before Caribbean Airlines did and now Constellation has also started the route before Caribbean Airlines while Caribbean Airlines was the first airline talking about a POS-CUR connection.

Also DL will start ATL-CUR flights from mid-December (2x per week with 738).

Anyone with more insight?

A388
 
2travel2know
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:16 am

Again on the Constellation POS-CUR-PTY subject, Are they allowed to sell tickets from PTY to CUR and/or POS?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
Again on the Constellation POS-CUR-PTY subject, Are they allowed to sell tickets from PTY to CUR and/or POS?

Yes they are. In the previous thread (part 16) I mentioned their prices.

A388
 
westindian425
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 12):
Ok guys its a shame but I only just looked at the BGI papers today and apparently Gonsales rant worked UVF is now prepared to give LI marketing support.

UVF is, huh? Well, now that Compton is Prime Minister again, I'm not surprised. Let's hope that St. Lucia benefits from this.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:09 pm

Side stepping a little. I was just makoing another thread, and i read about some Xtra Airways running 737s between JFk and POS/GEO. How many options do Trinidadians and Guyanese have to JFk. I am always reading of some new charter company. Trinis or anyone knowlegable? Shed some light on this please?

P.S. for non west indians, mako - concern yourself with matters that don't concern you.. Big grin
Look Up
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:24 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 26):

I think xtra may be part of travel span but I am not to sure
Eagles Soar!
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 26):
Side stepping a little. I was just makoing another thread, and i read about some Xtra Airways running 737s between JFk and POS/GEO. How many options do Trinidadians and Guyanese have to JFk. I am always reading of some new charter company. Trinis or anyone knowlegable? Shed some light on this please?

Well Xtra airways is operated by Travelspan. There are 2 chater airlines in POS: Travelspan/Xtra and Constellation/Primus.
Caribbean Airlines is the other and in GEO: Travelspan/Xtra, North American Airlines and Caribbean Airlines.
By years end, DL will be the next airline from JFK-POS. It will be truly interesting to see how DL does on this route, espicially on the December traffic.
All ah we is one family
 
Caymanair
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:11 am

The JFK route is doing well enough that KX is increasing the frequency starting in November.
Also, KX is getting new interiors and IFE. I hear it should be good.
Also, they have started moving into their new Headquarters. The new offices are amazing...no expense has been spared. Floor to cieling wooden pannelling in the lobby and the city ticket office has blue marble...gorgeous!!!
They are also looking to hire a lot more staff while they are at the moment revising staff salaries and benfits, which are WAY out of wack.
Finally, a revised livery will be out by the end of this year. Sir Turtle is still very prominent but i hear its very unique and quite stunning!


CAL New York Route Information!
http://www.caycompass.com/cgi-bin/CFPnews.cgi?ID=1023272

...Speaking about how well they are doing versus how well they thought they were going to do with the New York route, Mr. Wrightington pointed out that they are expecting to carry about 20 per cent more traffic in the market in the summer than they originally anticipated....

...Mr. Wrightington added that Cayman Airways is to begin a reconfiguration of its 737–300s to include new seating with more leg room and the most up to date entertainment system....
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:12 am

OK guys our version of the EU well the economic side at least is to begin operations fully by 2015, while we still have a long way to go and not much time I wonder what will happen to regional travel in the context of creating a single domestic place like they had in effect for Cricket World Cup is it workable!!


Nice that KX is doing well on the JFK route any details about the IFE are they going the full 9 yards with PTVs etc or are they going to bring it to the level of new BW with lcd screens every 3 rows

Question did BW/CAL release any half year figures I can't remember.

[Edited 2007-07-04 20:16:04]
Eagles Soar!
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 22):
Somehow nobody seems to care about this airline starting the long rumoured POS-CUR connection and not Caribbean Airlines. Why has Caribbean Airlines passed on the CUR route each time. Caribbean Star started the route before Caribbean Airlines did and now Constellation has also started the route before Caribbean Airlines while Caribbean Airlines was the first airline talking about a POS-CUR connection.

It seems as if POS CUR will be an over kill with the 738 and is not a priority for them. When one looks at the route expansion done by CAL so the airline seems to be more interested securing the GEO market with its low level of competition (which when taken into the context of the one of the major goals, that is being profitable in 3 years, makes sense).

Question if CAL does direct flights to North America from GEO this Fall what do you think the frequencies will be and in terms of fleet utilization does the current route system call for all of the 737s now??

Regards
BWIA 772

[Edited 2007-07-04 20:36:57]
Eagles Soar!
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:42 pm

Ok according to reports, Caribbean Airlines 737 9Y-GEO just left the fleet to holland.
All ah we is one family
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:44 pm

She will be back at the end of August. for the fall schedual.
All ah we is one family
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 20):
Why did they stop if they still serve NAS-YYZ?

They serve NAS anymore, they stopped all service because they thought the Canadian market was too competitive and they couldn't make a big enough profit. They restarted charter operations with their sole ex.733 and fly charters around.


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Quoting Caymanair (Reply 29):

Any expansion in the future?


Meanwhile, AA is starting daily FLL-SDQ and FLL-SJO flight and upgrade FLL-PAP to A300  box 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
caribbean484
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 34):
Meanwhile, AA is starting daily FLL-SDQ and FLL-SJO flight and upgrade FLL-PAP to A300

This is a way to destroy NK's expansion into latin america and the caribbean IMO.
All ah we is one family
 
A388
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 35):
This is a way to destroy NK's expansion into latin america and the caribbean IMO.

So far mainline airlines have not really succeeded in competing with low cost airlines due to the totally different nature of these two airline types. The cost structure of low cost carriers has proven difficult to beat by mainline airlines also because the employees of mainline airlines are unionized making them more expensive. With AA starting these flights or operating larger aircraft on these routes operated by low cost carriers doesn't mean anything. The key is to maintain the route profitably. JetBlue started daily JFK-AUA and they are making a lot of profit on this route, profits that could have gone to airlines like AA and DL who also fly the JFK-AUA route. JetBlue will start a second daily flight this summer AFAIK.

A388
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 19):
The route is going to be powered by tourists going to The Bahamas for sunny weather, white water beaches, tourist attractions. Canjet did YHZ-NAS charters periodically during their short stay at Nassau.

WS has other Caribbean offerings that will be forthcoming. My wife (a native Canadian) has heard rumors of a possible YYZ-HAV route, and possible YYZ and/or YUL-PUJ & POP flights.
Perhaps the most interesting reading of airlines and tourism building in the Caribbean I've read in recent weeks appeared in USAToday last night about the island of Dominica: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2007-07-05-dominica_N.htm
They mention a runway expansion there. What sort of aircraft can this airport currently take? with the expansion what can they also take after next year?
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
albird87
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:40 am

hey just out of interest i have been seeing that AA's flights into GCM (there afternoon flight no. 561) has been severly delayed for the past 3 days (normally leaves here at 2pm here arrives at 4:30pm in MIA). It arrived on tuesday at 6:30pm, wednesday 8:30pm and yesterday 9:11pm!!!
Anybody tell me where this flight comes from before it arrives MIA and onto GCM???
seems that for the past two days if you wanted to connect onto LHR then you would miss your connection. Hope this isnt the case when i go through on wednesday!!
 
trintocan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:00 am

Dominica has 2 airports, both relatively small. Melville Hall airport is on the NE coast and can take planes up to the size of Dash 8s and ATRs while Canefield, nearer to Roseau, handles smaller craft. The lack of flat land in large acreages anywhere on Dominica has hampered the building of an international airport - and perhaps by default enabled it to remain relatively exclusive.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
Caymanair
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:00 pm

Just out of curiosity.....how well could services from LAX-GCM work? Someone commented to me today that they thought a flight to LAX would be very probable in the near future but I wasnt too sure. Also, for comparison, what is the service from LAX to Jamaica like? What type of passengers do they carry? How well is that market served?

The person also assured me that the airline looking into the route was not Cayman Airways, which was probably one of the most shocking parts. Which other airlines could potentially operate this route? Would Air Jamaica try?
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting Caymanair (Reply 40):
what is the service from LAX to Jamaica like? What type of passengers do they carry?

A mixture of tourists and a considerable amount VFR passengers. Being the only flight from LAX nonstop to MBJ, Jamaicans living in the Sothern Cali area use JM. If GCM can market themselves well to passengers from the Western US, then the flight may work. These passengers traditionally vacation in Mexico and Hawaii. The caribbean tend ot be more popular with Midwest, North, North East US passengers.
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md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:34 pm

Quoting Caymanair (Reply 40):
Just out of curiosity.....how well could services from LAX-GCM work? Someone commented to me today that they thought a flight to LAX would be very probable in the near future but I wasnt too sure. Also, for comparison, what is the service from LAX to Jamaica like? What type of passengers do they carry? How well is that market served?

LAX-GCM would flop worse than Vlade Divac, not to mention the 733 probably couldn't make it work anyways. SJU works because it is timed to connect with cruise ships departing from San Juan and the fact that it is a link between a large AA focus city and a sizeable AA hub, they have enough trouble operating it.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 41):
A mixture of tourists and a considerable amount VFR passengers.

No VFR there, Jamaicans fly to Kingston,not Montego Bay. With that being said, the route still performs poorly with load factors in the 60s most of the time.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 42):
No VFR there, Jamaicans fly to Kingston,not Montego Bay. With that being said, the route still performs poorly with load factors in the 60s most of the time.

Stop talking craziness..

MBJ is the hub, the Jamaicans living in the LA area, have no choice but to fly firstly to JMs MBJ hub before connecting to their various Domestic Jamaica destination. Many end up driving as it works out cheaper depeending on the distance.

But as you did mention, the route is not the best performing JM US destinations, nevertheless with no competition on the direct LAX/Jamaica service, it contines to exist and has not been dropped unlike other destinations such as IAH.
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md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:46 pm

This video confirms that the 732s indeed are being used on Family Island flights, here is a video (poor quality) of a UP resting on the North Eleuthera tarmac:

http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:03 pm

Am scheduled to fly to Marsh Harbour on Sunday on Gulfstream Airlines. I will try to take pictures and do a trip report.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:18 am

Well guys here is GEO in her second hybrid livery well technically anyways

Eagles Soar!
 
albird87
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting Caymanair (Reply 40):
The person also assured me that the airline looking into the route was not Cayman Airways, which was probably one of the most shocking parts. Which other airlines could potentially operate this route? Would Air Jamaica try?

My guess on the airline would have to be AA. They will be trying to give possible business customers the advantage of going direct to LAX and then onto the trans pacific route. I doubt it would be daily but maybe 3x a week to give tourists the choice of staying just for 5 days or down here and then going back. A lot of americans on the west cost come here to dive and there is a lot of banks that have big business down here.
I would have the flight leaving here in the early evening arriving around 8-9pm to allow for passengers to connect onto departures to Asia and then have the return the next morning arriving in GCM at say 2pm.
Range though would maybe be a bit tight on a 738 so it would have to be a 757 i think more but there needed elsewhere on more profitable routes.
I think though AA should offer connections into DFW from GCM to get traffic going to the west rather than every single person having to come all the way accross to MIA. A DFW 3x weekly to start off the operations and then move it up to what ever the demands need.
 
md90fan
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:54 am

Westjet will add 2 weekly Calgary - Nassau (new service) flights and 1 weekly Halifax - Nassau (new service) flight!  praise 

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 45):
Am scheduled to fly to Marsh Harbour on Sunday on Gulfstream Airlines. I will try to take pictures and do a trip report.

Awesome! UP flies 732s there now that the runways got extended to 6,000 feet and was modernized with ILS, etc.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 46):
Well guys here is GEO in her second hybrid livery well technically anyways


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[Edited 2007-07-07 20:20:53]
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
captaink
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RE: Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part 17 (2.0)

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 47):
Range though would maybe be a bit tight on a 738 so it would have to be a 757 i think more but there needed elsewhere on more profitable routes.

Might be tight but it might work, maybe not all year round though at least not unrestricted... Big grin

The range on the 738 fully loaded is 5665km, GCM/LAX is bit more than 4000km.

Needless to say, I don't see that fligith being started. Does AA fly to GCM from all its major hubs already?
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