jimyvr
Topic Author
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AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:49 pm

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070705/lath026.html?.v=100


American has announced in addition to switching Raleigh - London Gatwick to Heathrow, it'll also move Dallas - London Gatwick to Heathrow from 29MAR08.

Moreover, it'll launch New York JFK - London STANSTED, 1 daily from 28OCT07, and 2nd daily flight will be added from Spring 2008.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
airlittoralguy
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:53 pm

Does someone know what was the schedule for the former AA flight ORD-STN ?? Flight numbers, and time of departures from both airports would really be helpful to me .

Thank you for your help
Normandie : La r�©unification, maintenant ! http://www.mouvement-normand.com/
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:53 pm

This topic is already being discussed at length:
AA To Run RDU-LHR (by MrSTL Jul 5 2007 in Civil Aviation)

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:54 pm

Is AA going to close LGW as a station? Why open STN? Does CO still fly EWR-STN?

Looks like there is going to be a lot of open gates at LGW come summer 2008.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 3):
Is AA going to close LGW as a station? Why open STN? Does CO still fly EWR-STN?

From the looks all that LGW will retain is one daily DFW frequency..

Continental hasnt operated EWR-STN since about 2001 or so..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
747fan
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:00 am

Wow, AA is actually adding a new route from JFK after taking a backseat to Delta and JetBlue (although they already extensively serve London out of there w/ there 5 or 6x daily LHR flights). But its a start, if a bit of a surprise to me. Do you think they'll use a 757 or 767 on this route; this route would seem a good fit to one of their winglet-equipped 757's although they don't have a true int'l. premium cabin on those planes.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 5):
Wow, AA is actually adding a new route from JFK after taking a backseat to Delta and JetBlue (although they already extensively serve London out of there w/ there 5 or 6x daily LHR flights).

This is not exactly a new route, it will be an airport move for some of AA's JFK-Heathrow frequencys. You will see American Airlines deleting one if not two of the daily Heathrow frequencies from the JFK market to make way for DFW and RDU to Heathrow. The slack left by the dropping is why AA is opening up service to Stansted from JFK. Again Stansted is not a new destination, it is only another airport used as an alternative in the London market..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
NYC777
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 5):
Wow, AA is actually adding a new route from JFK after taking a backseat to Delta and JetBlue (although they already extensively serve London out of there w/ there 5 or 6x daily LHR flights). But its a start, if a bit of a surprise to me. Do you think they'll use a 757 or 767 on this route; this route would seem a good fit to one of their winglet-equipped 757's although they don't have a true int'l. premium cabin on those planes.

I wonder how cheap those flights would be from JFK to STN. IT'll be great for me when I fly to London. STN is much closer to where I want to be compared to LHR.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
747fan
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 6):
This is not exactly a new route, it will be an airport move for some of AA's JFK-Heathrow frequencys. You will see American Airlines deleting one if not two of the daily Heathrow frequencies from the JFK market to make way for DFW and RDU to Heathrow. The slack left by the dropping is why AA is opening up service to Stansted from JFK. Again Stansted is not a new destination, it is only another airport used as an alternative in the London market..

As I just said in the other thread about this (AA to fly RDU-LHR), it will be interesting to see how AA does against Eos and Maxjet on this route. Eos has been very successful and I believe will be soon flying JFK-STN 4x daily. Good luck to AA!
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:10 am

I have to admit that Im a bit surprised that they are moving RDU service to LHR instead of both DFW frequencies. This will leave only one flight a day from LGW on AA. I wonder why they are retaining LGW service. Maybe its an issue of slots.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
Eos has been very successful and I believe will be soon flying JFK-STN 4x daily.

4x, 2x per week

JFK-STN

Su, Th

STN-JFK

Su, Fr

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 5):
this route would seem a good fit to one of their winglet-equipped 757's although they don't have a true int'l. premium cabin on those planes.

They don't offer premium service at all... those flights are sold as all-coach, despite actual domestic-F seating.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
747fan
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11):
They don't offer premium service at all... those flights are sold as all-coach, despite actual domestic-F seating.

According to the other thread, the route will be operated by a 767-300, maybe even a 777-200 if the route does well enough.
 
cornish
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):
I have to admit that Im a bit surprised that they are moving RDU service to LHR

check my post in the other thread. IF GSK is one of the biggest users of RDU - LON then they would be happy to see the service moved to LHR as their UK HQ and other major facilities are all in West London, a mere cab ride from LHR. Added to the fact that LHR puts you next to all the blue chip companies based in the Thames Valley then it may be that the corporate interests of the RDU service have been persuasive in getting it moved.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
albird87
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:24 am

It says in the report that they will use a 763 to STN...
This seems a bit wierd as they have no connections at STN and conenctions into centre london are way easier from LGW and LHR. Are they really trying to grab EOS and all the biz class companies business???
 
incitatus
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 6):
You will see American Airlines deleting one if not two of the daily Heathrow frequencies from the JFK market to make way for DFW and RDU to Heathrow.

I have not read that in the press release. What is your source please?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
cornish
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
It says in the report that they will use a 763 to STN...
This seems a bit wierd as they have no connections at STN and conenctions into centre london are way easier from LGW and LHR.

Actually STN has a direct rail link to the City of London - into Liverpool Street, so it's hardly inconvenient for the business market. Having said that - so does LGW courtesy of Southern Trains to London Bridge and Thameslink into City and Blackfriars - but most people tend to forget that.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):
I have not read that in the press release. What is your source please?

It is a (rumor) and has been talked about for a long time. American Airlines is not going to purchase slots at Heathrow as they have better things to do with their money now. The 2 slots had to come from somewhere in the AA system. So in turn from what has been heard those slots would come from the largest Heathrow market that AA serves(JFK). AA would not be opening Stansted as a 7th and 8th NYC-LON route, they are opening Stansted to replace what will be (rumored) to be lost in the JFK-LHR market.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
jimyvr
Topic Author
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:31 am

should correct the post as only 1 of 2 daily DFW - London will be moved from Gatiwck to HEathrow.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 18):
should correct the post as only 1 of 2 daily DFW - London will be moved from Gatiwck to HEathrow.

The question is what will happen to LGW? I cannot see AA leaving the station open for the sole flight. However, I wonder if in turn the flight will be left open to serve connecting traffic through DFW and LGW to feed on LGW unique routes for BA.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 6):
You will see American Airlines deleting one if not two of the daily Heathrow frequencies from the JFK market to make way for DFW and RDU to Heathrow.

to stay competitive, AA can't end two flights out of JFK..maybe we'll see one, if that...

...

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 19):
The question is what will happen to LGW? I cannot see AA leaving the station open for the sole flight. However, I wonder if in turn the flight will be left open to serve connecting traffic through DFW and LGW to feed on LGW unique routes for BA.

..add SJC-LGW.. biggrin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
incitatus
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
It is a (rumor) and has been talked about for a long time. American Airlines is not going to purchase slots at Heathrow as they have better things to do with their money now. The 2 slots had to come from somewhere in the AA system. So in turn from what has been heard those slots would come from the largest Heathrow market that AA serves(JFK). AA would not be opening Stansted as a 7th and 8th NYC-LON route, they are opening Stansted to replace what will be (rumored) to be lost in the JFK-LHR market.

Let's quote from the press release:

"As a result, American will fly as many as 20 roundtrips a day between the United States and London once all the changes are in place."

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070705/lath026.html?.v=100

American currently does not have 20 flights a day to London, so the news seems to be going against the rumor. There is a net increase in flying somewhere and basic algebra says it is at Heathrow.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 21):
American currently does not have 20 flights a day to London, so the news seems to be going against the rumor. There is a net increase in flying somewhere and basic algebra says it is at Heathrow.

Okay then I pose this question.. If AA is going to operate 20 flights a day to London, how much did they pay for the RDU and DFW slots at LHR?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
..add SJC-LGW..

I think we are more likely to see MY SJC-STN...

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 22):
Okay then I pose this question.. If AA is going to operate 20 flights a day to London, how much did they pay for the RDU and DFW slots at LHR?

..what does AA do with their LAX-LHR slot when they go down from 2x/daily to 1x/daily?
"Up the Irons!"
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
..what does AA do with their LAX-LHR slot when they go down from 2x/daily to 1x/daily?

It is seasonal, that poses a good question...

So perhaps we will see one JFK and one LAX slot released?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
hoya
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:08 am

Does AA have any extra slots that are leased out to other airlines? I know UA has leased its unused LHR slots to other airlines, so maybe AA is taking back some of the slots it owns but others use.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Hoya (Reply 26):
Does AA have any extra slots that are leased out to other airlines? I know UA has leased its unused LHR slots to other airlines, so maybe AA is taking back some of the slots it owns but others use.

Intersting... Can anyone clarify if AA indeed is leasing slots out at LHR, or has dormant LHR slots?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 25):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
..what does AA do with their LAX-LHR slot when they go down from 2x/daily to 1x/daily?

It is seasonal, that poses a good question...

So perhaps we will see one JFK and one LAX slot released?

..I still don't think that will be the case...

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 27):

Intersting... Can anyone clarify if AA indeed is leasing slots out at LHR, or has dormant LHR slots?

AFAIK, slots must be used or given up....and I can't recall AA leasing slots out...that being said, I have no clue how AA deals with their LAX slot when its not used...they don't "up" the frequency anywhere else either..
"Up the Irons!"
 
ASTROJET707
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:25 am

I am glad to see AA is maintaining one DFW-LON at LGW. I do not make onward connections from London and prefer LGW over LHR. All my times flying to LGW, never a problem. LHR however-CHAOS.

AJ707
 
AEROFAN
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:37 am

I for one am looking forward to what happens when every carrier starts flying USA to London. It will be interesting to see the fall out
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:42 am

I'm surprised that JFK-STN will be a 767-300 rather then a 757-200. A 767-300 seems rather large for the route.
No Vueling No Party
 
LHR777
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Airlittoralguy (Reply 1):
Does someone know what was the schedule for the former AA flight ORD-STN ?? Flight numbers, and time of departures from both airports would really be helpful to me .

We started out as AA155, with a 1300 LCL departure, arrival of 1600 LCL at ORD. Return was AA154, with an 2020 LCL departure from ORD, arriving STN at 0940 LCL.

Due to ATC conflict (with AA55 MAN-ORD), the flight number was changed to AA147/146. This had the same times as above.

Finally, the flight number was changed again to AA133/132, with a 1030 LCL departure time, and arrival at ORD at 1330 LCL. The return service (AA132) departed ORD at 1820 LCL, arriving at STN at 0740 LCL.

We operated 361 days at STN, with one cancellation (due to mechanical) on our 3rd flight! We operated a total of 360 services. Our first flight was operated by N328AA, a B767-200ER, in 3-class configuration. During the peak summer season, we operated 4 days in a row with a B767-300ER. The final service was operated by N334AA. We all know what became of that aircraft.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:57 am

AA is going to try to keep all 6 daily JFK-LHR flights. The situation that is looking likely is that LAX-LHR will no longer have a seasonal second frequency, and ORD-LHR will lose a frequency. Also, they are in talks with Glaxo about changes to the RDU-LHR subsidies, and if it doesn't work out, RDU-LHR will not go on, which gives AA a slot. AA also wants to add a second daily MIA-LHR year-round starting winter 2008, which will be especially important when AA/BA start codesharing, so that will have to come from some where too...
a.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Moreover, it'll launch New York JFK - London STANSTED, 1 daily from 28OCT07, and 2nd daily flight will be added from Spring 2008.

I wonder how well this will do for AA. Back in the early 90s, AA was adding routes to Europe from ORD, often dropping them within a few months.

Among the cities were London-Stansted, Dusseldorf, Berlin, and Munich.
 
UN_B732
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:52 am

If I remember right, CO's EWR-STN was not very successful. I don't think this will work for AA (low yields in the back), but we'll see.
-A
What now?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 35):
If I remember right, CO's EWR-STN was not very successful. I don't think this will work for AA (low yields in the back), but we'll see.

It was in operation for only a few months and ended because of 9/11. In fact, from what I recall, early results were promising.

Meanwhile, that was 2001 and now is 2007. Maxjet is successfully operating JFK-STN, as is Eos. Maxjet has also added Dulles and Vegas, and will soon add LA. They are also planning on adding Miami and the Bay Area next year.
a.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
The situation that is looking likely is that LAX-LHR will no longer have a seasonal second frequency, and ORD-LHR will lose a frequency

..that would suck..I like the frequencies out of ORD...not that going from 5 to 4 is too bad of a deal, but with VS coming on the scene now and AA needing those slots, I could see them removing one frequency out of ORD....
"Up the Irons!"
 
gilesdavies
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:47 am

I think the STN-JFK service is a great move by AA!

This allows them to increase the frequencies between to London and New York, and open a potential new market out of Stansted without them having to pay through the nose to gain extra slots at LHR! Also it saves them having to compete with Zoom, Continental and Delta on the LGW-NYC market!

Stansted will open up New York to people living North and East of London and also to people in East Anglia (saving about 60 miles having to trundle around the M25 to get to LHR or LGW) and the Northern Home Counties.
(It's just a ashame it was not LTN instead of STN!  Wink)
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:04 am

Some runours going around that AA acquired/will acquire one Heathrow slot from Gulf Air. Anybody know more?
a.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Some runours going around that AA acquired/will acquire one Heathrow slot from Gulf Air. Anybody know more?

Is Gulf Air faring that badly?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
phllax
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 31):
I'm surprised that JFK-STN will be a 767-300 rather then a 757-200. A 767-300 seems rather large for the route.

The first time around they operated it it was a 757.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 40):
Is Gulf Air faring that badly?

Oman pulled out of Gulf Air, the two slots they used for MCT-LHR are freed up. One will probably go to LHR-BAH, the other will be up for sale.

Speculation of course.
 
Halophila
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
STN is much closer to where I want to be compared to LHR.

This will allow greater connections for travellers to LCCs that operate into and out of STN - depending of course on schedules. And these wouldn't be interlined, but you could pick up cheap fares to just about everywhere in continental europe from STN, while the options are somewhat more limited from LHR and LGW. This should be a great service!
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oakjam
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:50 pm

Why is it that OAK has 14.5 million passengers this year....almost surpassing last year. Why can't AA open OAK-LGW? OAK needs a link to Europe, OAK is easier acess to Downtown SF than SFO. What ever happened to SFO-LHR on AA? I know OAK is a long shot to get this, but SJC-LGW/STN makes good sense!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Oakjam (Reply 44):
Why is it that OAK has 14.5 million passengers this year....almost surpassing last year. Why can't AA open OAK-LGW? OAK needs a link to Europe, OAK is easier acess to Downtown SF than SFO. What ever happened to SFO-LHR on AA? I know OAK is a long shot to get this, but SJC-LGW/STN makes good sense!

Not going to happen in this lifetime on AA metal. AA and BA are more than content with the existing 2 daily services to Heathrow from San Francisco. However, I would not be to shocked to see British Airways take advantage of San Jose in the coming years. However I think MaxJet may well attempt San Jose-Stansted by years end 2008.

Oakland has had many services to Europe none of which proved to be fruitful. Past services to Oakland were all charter and were operated by:

*Tower Air (Paris)
*CorsAir (Paris)
*Minerve (Paris)
*CityBird (Brussels)
*Martinair (Amsterdam)

A number of others over the years including Saturn and Capitol. Oakland never proved to be fruitful as the competition was always overshadowed by the Gorilla that is SFO.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 42):
Oman pulled out of Gulf Air, the two slots they used for MCT-LHR are freed up. One will probably go to LHR-BAH, the other will be up for sale

Wonder what that price tag is going to be?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
oakjam
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:22 am

RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:23 pm

Yes but the services from OAK to Europe was about 10 years ago. At the end of 1999 OAK had 9.9 million passengers. This year they have 14.5 million with more flights to the East Coast, intra-west connections and flights to Mexico. Most of which did not exist in 1999. In 1999 MX flew 1 weekly flight to GDL. Now they fly 2x daily flights to OAK from GDL, 1 to Leon and Zacatecas, MX. There are also flights to SJD by US. Airport capacity has grown a lot since then. I think by the end of this year OAK will be busier than SAN. OAK will be third among passenger capacity in California. And later on this winter I think Oasis Air will begin HKG-OAK. So why not a flight to Europe. SATA also flies summer/fall season to Terceira, Portugal (Azores). Maybe my best hope is on the rumored Zoom LGW-San Francisco service in which they will call OAK (San Francisco).
 
aal0616
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:16 am

RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:40 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
AA is going to try to keep all 6 daily JFK-LHR flights. The situation that is looking likely is that LAX-LHR will no longer have a seasonal second frequency, and ORD-LHR will lose a frequency. Also, they are in talks with Glaxo about changes to the RDU-LHR subsidies, and if it doesn't work out, RDU-LHR will not go on, which gives AA a slot. AA also wants to add a second daily MIA-LHR year-round starting winter 2008, which will be especially important when AA/BA start codesharing, so that will have to come from some where too...

Yes.

Several minor additional points:

LHR remains an all 772 station.

It is important to note that the JFK-STN service will be with one 763 to begin and then another 763 in Spring 2008 depending upon how the initial deployment pans out. The demand for JFK-LHR has not diminished. The JFK-STN add-on is independent of the LHR services because of aircraft type, if you read through the following planning logic:

For Winter 2007-2008, one LAX-LHR frequency will be seasonally suspended, providing a slot for DFW-LHR. The aircraft is already committed to DFW-LGW so that means +1 aircraft for another LHR route. The second current DFW-LGW flight stays at LGW for the time being, subject to change. For winter, one JFK-LHR frequency gets trimmed to open a slot at LHR for the current RDU-LGW flight. The aircraft would already be committed to RDU-LGW and spun (turned) with the DFW trips. If RDU-LHR does not work out because of the subsidy issue, the aircraft becomes the second full-time MIA-LHR trip (as opposed to the seasonal once-twice a week 112/113 of the past few seasons).

One of the four ORD-LHR trips drops out to handle the sixth JFK-LHR in the near term.

Mid-term, two slot acquisitions from BA, if approved by the authorities, will be required to fly the second LAX frequency and restore the fourth ORD-LHR trip for Summer 2008.

Long term, the objective of 20 slots at LHR, of which the increase would be a mutually strategic transaction with BA, if also approved, develops the service pattern for LHR to something like JFK-6, ORD-4, MIA-2, LHR-2, DFW-2, BOS-2, thence RDU-1 if it stays, and/or opens the possibility of one or two other US-UK stations.

AA is in a very strong position at LHR and will certainly seek to strengthen itself as other carriers gain access.

Personally, I am realistic about the prospects of STN and agree with others about retaining LGW. Especially as we saw this past week with everyone standing for hours outside Terminal 4, or on any weekend as passengers flow from intra-Europe flights on BA over to trans-Atlantic flights on AA, connecting at LHR can be a nightmare. Satisfying the needs of O/D travelers to the UK is but one sound reason and market for every carrier to rethink fleeing LGW for LHR en-masse.

So, AA fortifies and rationalizes LHR, while servicing the "boutique" or "niche" greater metropolitan airfields. We will see how this plays out. We are seeing a "work in progress."
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Oakjam (Reply 46):
Yes but the services from OAK to Europe was about 10 years ago.

CorsAir dropped OAK less than 10 years ago...

Quoting Oakjam (Reply 46):
And later on this winter I think Oasis Air will begin HKG-OAK. So why not a flight to Europe. SATA also flies summer/fall season to Terceira, Portugal (Azores). Maybe my best hope is on the rumored Zoom LGW-San Francisco service in which they will call OAK (San Francisco).

Indeed Oakland serves as an alternate airport that attracts mainly charter airlines as can be seen from history for long-haul international service. It would not make sense for BA to operate from Oakland, nor any other European flag carrier. Oakland is a different demographic than SFO and SJC which are de-facto business markets. True there is industry in Oakland, yet the majority of the Oakland traffic is heading into San Francisco. Which indeed is the main draw for both business and leisure in the Bay Area.

Zoom to Oakland?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA JFK-STN Eff 28OCT07; DFW/RDU-LGW Switch To LHR

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 45):
I would not be to shocked to see British Airways take advantage of San Jose in the coming years. However I think MaxJet may well attempt San Jose-Stansted by years end 2008.

...I don't expect to see BA ever flying to SJC with SFO so close....MaxJet would be a good bet...personally, I would like to see AA fly to LGW.... yes ....

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 47):
One of the four ORD-LHR trips drops out to handle the sixth JFK-LHR in the near term.

....summer ORD-LHR is at 5x/daily...and 4x/daily during the fall...are you saying it would possibly go down to 3?

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 47):
Mid-term, two slot acquisitions from BA, if approved by the authorities, will be required to fly the second LAX frequency and restore the fourth ORD-LHR trip for Summer 2008.

..now that would be nice.... checkmark 
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