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KL577
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:21 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 30):
Maybe a return to PHC??
Does anybody know why LH stopped serving PHC?



Quoting DALCA (Reply 31):
PHC is currently cancelled because of runway renewal. There are currently no services from Europe to PHC. It is not yet known when it will open again.

The airport was supposed to reopen in August. Then, given the recent number of kidnappings of expatriates in the region, the contractor suspended work due to safety concerns. According to the local papers, work is far from completed, expect an re-opening in 2008, earliest.

LH still serves ABV IIRC, AF relocated flights to LOS.
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 43):
Quoting HanginOut (Reply 42):What does PHC stand for?Port Harcourt, Nigeria.

I had to look that one up on http://gc.kls2.com/ , too ...  Smile

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 41):
The problem with LAD is that they may not get any traffic rights since it seems that the Angolan government is directly retaliating against the EU for putting DT into the blacklist.

This comes not too unexpectedly ...
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
Lp0815
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 34):
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see LH flying to WDH, but elsewhere they can earn more money.

Would be nice to see LH back in WDH.
They used to fly there until sometime back with 340
LH 596/597 was the flight number pair for FRA-WDH-FRA
Time waits for nobody
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8378
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:44 pm

LH Irish sales manager announced last year that LH were planning MUC DUB. FRA DUB will not be cancelled, as LH are getting excellent quality feed on this service. Point to Point yields are low, but Feed more than makes up for it.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 53):
LH Irish sales manager announced last year that LH were planning MUC DUB. FRA DUB will not be cancelled, as LH are getting excellent quality feed on this service. Point to Point yields are low, but Feed more than makes up for it.

I would be chocked too if LH cancels FRA-DUB. Ireland is one of the most booming economies in Europe ('Keltic Tiger') and there are a lot of Irish around the world. It would really wonder if LH would not link them anymore t its main hub in FRA.
But adding MUC certainly makes sense.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 3):
Heard a rumour that DUB-FRA is to be dropped

nothing but a rumor.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
MUC-RLG (Rostock)

i think this one was tried by C9 but failed miserably.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
FRA-KHI-LHE-FRA

given the number of rumors and reports on this one, there must be truth to this.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 30):
I also read somewhere here on a.net that WDH and LAD might be included in the future.
Does anybody know if there would be any frequencies available?

doesn't BA only have one frequency per week? i doubt LH would start to serve LAD if it was granted just one weekly flight.

Quoting A342 (Reply 32):
Quoting BlrBird (Reply 26):
MUC-BOM - this was rumoured a while back.

Rumored, but not announced yet. But IMO it will happen sooner or later.

i think chances are high, it will happen indeed sooner or later. but aren't there traffic right restrictions as most frequencies allowed by the current bilateral are used up?

Quoting Beechcraft (Reply 37):
we?re still flying BOD. Rumours have it, it will end win winter...

it will end but not in winter, at the end of the summer schedule, so that would be late October.

Quoting Fuffla (Reply 38):
Are they still planning on a return to Australia?

they never did. there's been talk about, also on this forum, but yields are low, costs are high for such a service. better to serve Australia through a more suitably located entry point, e.g. SIN, BKK, HKG, than through SYD.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 44):
A final decission on MIA-DUS will be made within a month, from what I hear. One rumour going around MIA that it will use a Munich-based aircraft, and go MUC-MIA-DUS-MIA-MUC, but take that with a grain of salt. There has been a lot of talk about LH adding MIA-DUS, but little about returning to MIA-MUC.

there might have been talk on this forum about MIA-DUS or MUC-MIA, but that's it. i think both services are very unlikely. I am even more certain that an aircraft rotation like MUC-MIA-DUS-MIA-MUC is totally out of the question. LH significantly changed its organization, I am quite surprised that this didn't make the rounds in this forum, and splitted its commercial areas into three units: FRA, MUC and decentral services, all with a single and independent fleet. this was done to improve operational stability and increase transparency among its hubs and gateways. e.g. aircraft that operate from FRA are not operating out of MUC and vice versa.

Quoting A342 (Reply 46):
LOL, you should know better. Amadeus doesn't show any nonstop flights from November. BTW, how are the load factors and yields on the route?

as someone said, SLF seemed to be high, so yields must have been quite bad.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26607
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 55):

there might have been talk on this forum about MIA-DUS or MUC-MIA, but that's it

I agree, I'm not holding my breathe for it to happen, but the rumour for MIA-DUS has some truth, that much I know.
a.
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:22 am

Kochi, Ahmedabad, Pune..are seemingly in consideration by LH following an article in Deccan herald
here
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
blrBird
Posts: 490
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:39 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:46 am

Quote:
MUC-BOM,MUC-BLR



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 57):
Kochi, Ahmedabad, Pune..are seemingly in consideration by LH following an article in Deccan herald
here

All these routes will have to wait for new bilateral to happen as current one is maxed out!
from star dust....
 
LH506
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Just trying to compose a list of what Lufthansa is preparing in terms of route/network changes

Another question for our LH experts. Any chances / rumours that KUL and MNL will be served non-stop in the future?
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
soups
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:09 am

LH flew 5 weekly FRA-LOS-ACC and 2 weekly FRA-LOS-PHC, PHC was removed and ACC went daily
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:40 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9):
Im most interested in knowing the rumored details of this route...plz do keep me and all of us on A.Net updated on the progress being made by LH to return to Pakistan...thanks

From what I have heard, rumor about to begin winter 2007/2008 with AB6. They have the capacity and the range!

Cheers,

Thilo
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
COEI2007
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 24):
Yeah only EI fly to MUC from DUB. I would imagine the reason for LH considering pulling out of DUB-FRA is over capacity. There are 3 daily EI flights and even some StaerAlliance partners offer EI connections through FRA rather than LH ones (Im specifically talking SQ here). Then there are also the FR flights to Hahn. I know these are not directly in competition with LH on the DUB route but Im sure they are not helping their Y loads

EI to FRA is 2x daily. I'd heard LH was interested in DUB-MUC. FRA apparently does well for LH, due to connections
 
vfw614
Posts: 4008
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 55):
i think this one was tried by C9 but failed miserably.

C9 did not fail miserably, they simply did not get the PSO tender when it was up for renewal. Dauair, airBaltic and Cirrus all tendered for the route, but Cirrus only came in third despite being the incumbent. Probably they did not expect the award either going to a foreign airline or a newcomer, but their gambling did not pay off.
 
airportmanager
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:49 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 15):
They could decide to add UIO or GYE onto the LIM flight. Am I not right in saying that LH once flew UIO-LIM-FRA?



Quoting LH506 (Reply 17):
It use to be FRA-BOG-UIO (Mid 90s) and FRA-CCS-LIM also in the Mid 90s

It would be great to see LH back to UIO!! i hope.

Im the 90's they flew all sort of combinations

FRA-CCS-UIO
FRA-CCS-BOG-UIO
FRA-BOG-UIO-LIM-La paz
FRA-CCS-BOG-UIO-LIM-La paz

Andd the last I think it was direct, hmmm
 
Nimish
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 55):
MUC-BOM - this was rumoured a while back.
i think chances are high, it will happen indeed sooner or later. but aren't there traffic right restrictions as most frequencies allowed by the current bilateral are used up?

Yes - the bilaterals are to be renegotiated, and the date for a date is "by end of July".

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 58):
All these routes will have to wait for new bilateral to happen as current one is maxed out!

Does LH have the fleet to start all these potential new routes to India (MUC-BOM, MUC-BLR, FRA-COK, FRA-PNQ, FRA-AMD)?
Incredible India!
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 65):
Does LH have the fleet to start all these potential new routes to India (MUC-BOM, MUC-BLR, FRA-COK, FRA-PNQ, FRA-AMD)?

Not all at once, but there will be quite some additions in the long-haul fleet in the future:

2007: 2 A346s
from 2008: 5 A330s and 5 A346s
from 2009: 15 A380s
from 2010: 20 748s (probably replacing their 18 older 744s)

SailorOrion
 
KL577
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:21 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting Soups (Reply 60):
and 2 weekly FRA-LOS-PHC, PHC was removed and ACC went daily

The routing was FRA-PHC-ABV
 
LH121GLA
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:04 pm

LH - Please come back to Glasgow (FRA or MUC or both) ... there's very little in the way of direct Euro routes from GLA - and if they came back with a frequency similar to what's on offer from EDI - they would have a huge chunk of international connecting passengers.
 
Danny
Posts: 3753
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:26 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 24):
There are 3 daily EI flights and even some StaerAlliance partners offer EI connections through FRA rather than LH ones (

Amadeus shows 3 daily FRA-DUB on LH in the winter and only 2 daily on EI which contradicts the rumour. Also LH introduced A321 on FRA-DUB this summer which I would read as a sign of good performance not the opposite.
 
Nimish
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:33 pm

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 66):
Not all at once, but there will be quite some additions in the long-haul fleet in the future:

2007: 2 A346s
from 2008: 5 A330s and 5 A346s
from 2009: 15 A380s
from 2010: 20 748s (probably replacing their 18 older 744s)

Thanks - good to know! And I guess they might start the new stations with a 3x/4x weekly schedule so 1 a/c can serve 2 new destinations.
Incredible India!
 
TreeHillRavens
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:01 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancel

Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:47 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 59):
Another question for our LH experts. Any chances / rumours that KUL and MNL will be served non-stop in the future?

Yeah, i also would like to know if LH is interested in having a nonstop flight to KUL. May be with a daily 343 ?
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 4118
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:01 pm

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 71):
Yeah, i also would like to know if LH is interested in having a nonstop flight to KUL. May be with a daily 343 ?

To make it a "crazy" idea: make it a FRA-KUL-PEN-FRA rotation on 4 days a week, and make it a FRA-KUL-MYY-KUL-FRA routing 3 times a week. Reason behind it: Penang as the second largest industrial city and a high-yield cargo hub gets a non-stop/one-stop flight pax flight to Europe with the potential to both fill the front cabins and the cargo holds. Miri on Borneo would be a very "out-of-the-box" destination, but IMO with quite some potential. Not only would it be a very rare direct connection to Borneo but Miri is being developed as an important Oil&Gas-Hub in Malaysia and is fast becoming an important production center for biofuels. Could be quite a bit of high-yield traffic as wel as cargo demand on that tag-on.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 72):
To make it a "crazy" idea: make it a FRA-KUL-PEN-FRA rotation on 4 days a week, and make it a FRA-KUL-MYY-KUL-FRA routing 3 times a week.

If and when LH were to decide to restart nonstop KUL operations, I would envisage that CGK would once again be tagged to the route. That said, anyone who has seen recent passenger numbers for LH's current 4 weekly BKK KUL tags should really ask himself why LH would engage in a KUL nonstop venture.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 73):
Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 72):
To make it a "crazy" idea: make it a FRA-KUL-PEN-FRA rotation on 4 days a week, and make it a FRA-KUL-MYY-KUL-FRA routing 3 times a week.

If and when LH were to decide to restart nonstop KUL operations, I would envisage that CGK would once again be tagged to the route. That said, anyone who has seen recent passenger numbers for LH's current 4 weekly BKK KUL tags should really ask himself why LH would engage in a KUL nonstop venture.

I can't comment on LH's load factor BKK-KUL. But I reckon that KUL is a good cargo market. Malaysia is a big producer of electronic goods. And I also think that LH currently has a disadvantage compared with MH that flies nonstop FRA-KUL.

So the fact that BKK-KUL is not well booked does not convince me that a nonstop FRA-KUL could not work.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 70):
Thanks - good to know! And I guess they might start the new stations with a 3x/4x weekly schedule so 1 a/c can serve 2 new destinations.

I'm not sure, but I don't see LH to start a whole lot of "new stations" in the near future. They might add one or two flights that have the hub on the "other end", and I still think the W-pattern is the likely thing to do.

SailorOrion
 
TreeHillRavens
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:01 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 74):
And I also think that LH currently has a disadvantage compared with MH that flies nonstop FRA-KUL.



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 74):
So the fact that BKK-KUL is not well booked does not convince me that a nonstop FRA-KUL could not work.

Well said.
 
LH506
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 66):
Not all at once, but there will be quite some additions in the long-haul fleet in the future:

2007: 2 A346s
from 2008: 5 A330s and 5 A346s
from 2009: 15 A380s
from 2010: 20 748s (probably replacing their 18 older 744s)


Thanks - good to know! And I guess they might start the new stations with a 3x/4x weekly schedule so 1 a/c can serve 2 new destinations.

In addition someone mentioned on another thread about LH, that they will convert 10 out of their 14 A300s for medium-/longhaul. They will have the new Business class etc. This means that LH will have over 20 a/c as additional capacity for longhaul in 2008.

Is the A300 capable of flying DUS-JFK or HAM-IAD with full load??

Also I think the 15 A380s and the 20 748s will replace the 30 744s + 5 for growth. Can anybody confirm this??
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:40 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:20 am

Letting the A300s make Transatlantic runs would mean having them ETOPS certified again (they once were, as far as I know they aren't anymore). That would mean additional costs, I don't see that happening. That's why I think it is much more likely for the AB6s to make the Pakistani and North to Central Africa runs for LH, as they don't need ETOPS for that. See KHI, LHE, LOS, ADD and others like that become A300 destinations, while that will free up some aircraft for other destinations.

Cheers,

Thilo
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting LH506 (Reply 77):
Is the A300 capable of flying DUS-JFK or HAM-IAD with full load??

DUS-JFK 3258 nm
HAM-IAD 3505 nm

Only a few of the 14 A306 in LH's service are shown as the longer-range "R" model.
http://www.planespotters.net/Product...eg=1&field_fate=1&rpp=150&search=1
According to the ranges listed of A.net for the A306 https://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=18 , even the non-R type should be able to operate between DUS and JFK, but HAM to IAD would be a stretch and I doubt that LH would risk to make fuelstops enroute.

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 78):
Letting the A300s make Transatlantic runs would mean having them ETOPS certified again (they once were, as far as I know they aren't anymore).

Fair point.

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 78):
Central Africa runs for LH, as they don't need ETOPS for that.

What is the ETOPS-rating for LH's A300 then ?
There is a large ETOPS-90 nogo-area over the Sahara desert.
And there is also a small ETOPS-120 nogo-area over the Sahara in your way from FRA to LOS.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting HT (Reply 79):
Quoting LH506 (Reply 77):
Is the A300 capable of flying DUS-JFK or HAM-IAD with full load??

DUS-JFK 3258 nm
HAM-IAD 3505 nm

Only a few of the 14 A306 in LH's service are shown as the longer-range "R" model.

LH used the A300-600 on a few transatlantic routes years ago, probably in the early to mid 1990s. I recall they were used FRA-YUL and to at least one or two east coast U.S. destinations. PHL was one if not mistaken.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 75):
(...) and I still think the W-pattern is the likely thing to do.

mark my words: not gonna happen.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 77):
In addition someone mentioned on another thread about LH, that they will convert 10 out of their 14 A300s for medium-/longhaul. They will have the new Business class etc.
(...)
Also I think the 15 A380s and the 20 748s will replace the 30 744s + 5 for growth. Can anybody confirm this??

IIRC, they will indeed convert all A300 with the current business class. however, this doesn't necessarily mean all aircraft will now be operated on long-haul routes. only a fraction of those birds will be used for intercontinental flights whereas the remainder will be kept on short haul routes.
LH must slow down the increase in flown cycles of those aircraft and this is where the longhaul flying, quite coincidentally, comes in. all of them have flown lots of cycles and it is hard for LH Technik to continue to come up with maintenance concepts to continue to support them.

regarding the second part of the quote: it seems plausbile that the A380 and 748s will be used to replace the 744s. however, as deliveries are still far away, any confirmation on the exact fleet replacement/expansion moves by LH is far-fetched.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
eyflyer88
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:48 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancel

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 61):
From what I have heard, rumor about to begin winter 2007/2008 with AB6. They have the capacity and the range!

If this is true, it would make sense. I dont remember what A/C LH used when they used to fly to KHI.. but for most airlines they sent smaller widebodies there since there wasnt such a great demand for say a 747. If LH does bring back KHI, Ill be on the first flight.  Smile
There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings. - Wilbur
 
eyflyer88
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:48 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:17 am

Actually, Wikipedia says a start up for KHI/LHE in Fall 07, but they also said that AF would re-start SYD, and Austrian flies to KHI apparantly (NOT)
There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings. - Wilbur
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:41 pm

LH used to fly the A313 and the AB6 to KHI but i think right before they axed the route,all flights had become A300-600.When i flew LH from KHI in 1995 it was on a A313 (KHI-BAH-FRA)
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:14 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 79):
What is the ETOPS-rating for LH's A300 then ?
There is a large ETOPS-90 nogo-area over the Sahara desert.
And there is also a small ETOPS-120 nogo-area over the Sahara in your way from FRA to LOS.
-HT

ETOPS 180 certification was available for AB6s since the late 80s. Although the only destinations LH needed an ETOPS 120 certificate were US East Coast destinations. Outside the US, espcially over the western Sahara LH sticked to 90minutes diversion rules according to ICAO regulations and therefore there was no ETOPS relevant destination other than BOS and JFK occasionally.

BTW: The Great Circle Mapper ETOPS Maps are not complete. Especially over Afrika and the Middle East.
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:39 pm

Quoting EYFlyer88 (Reply 83):
Actually, Wikipedia says a start up for KHI/LHE in Fall 07, but they also said that AF would re-start SYD, and Austrian flies to KHI apparantly (NOT)

It is not "wikipedia" who states this but an author, who needs no proof for what he/she is writing. Unless someone changes / corrects the entry in wikipedia, any incorrect information will remain.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 85):

Thanks for the explanation.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 85):
BTW: The Great Circle Mapper ETOPS Maps are not complete. Especially over Afrika and the Middle East.

I am aware of the disclaimer, but is there a more complete public source available ?
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:47 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 85):
ETOPS 180 certification was available for AB6s since the late 80s. Although the only destinations LH needed an ETOPS 120 certificate were US East Coast destinations.

This makes me wonder about the AB6 HF leased from LH (D-AIAX, now back with LH) used on some flights to Africa on behalf of LX, prior to LX getting those 2 additional A332s from LH. I don't recall the routes they served, but this begs the question of whether some of those destinations required flying through places that required ETOPS 180.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
DABVF
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancel

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 87):

D-AIAX was operated on LX flights from ZRH to Nairobi/Dar Es Salaam and Malabo/Douala.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancel

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:50 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 87):
This makes me wonder about the AB6 HF leased from LH (D-AIAX, now back with LH) used on some flights to Africa on behalf of LX, prior to LX getting those 2 additional A332s from LH. I don't recall the routes they served, but this begs the question of whether some of those destinations required flying through places that required ETOPS 180.

AFAIR there are no ETOPS180 no go areas over Africa and A330 and A300 are both technically certified for ETOPS180? I can't see any other reason than capacity for LX having this relatively odd leasing agreement.

Edit: Or do you mean that otherwise they had to use on of their A320s? But again this might also not be an ETOPS issue but simply a range problem.

[Edited 2007-07-10 09:54:07]
 
PADSpot
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 86):
I am aware of the disclaimer, but is there a more complete public source available ?

I don't know any, I am sorry. But at times you can see that the GCM-Maps are missing major airports, which definetely could service for a diversion. The entire middile east part of the ETOPS60 Map only shows 5-6 airports, while there are at least 20 larger ones at least. Eastern Turkey for instance is definitely not a no-go area, the same for Syria, Lybia and Senegal ...
 
HT
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 89):
I can't see any other reason than capacity for LX having this relatively odd leasing agreement.

This was a short- to mid-term lease prior to delivery of new suitable a/c to LX.
From what have been aired, nobody (neither LX nor their pax) were happy with that solution and the product/service.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
PADSpot
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting HT (Reply 91):
From what have been aired, nobody (neither LX nor their pax) were happy with that solution and the product/service.

AFAIK the A300 still had their LH 280 seat all-eco seating. It's not very hard for the competition to beat that.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 89):
AFAIR there are no ETOPS180 no go areas over Africa and A330 and A300 are both technically certified for ETOPS180?

So basically, Africa can still be safely flown with Transatlantic ETOPS then (ETOPS 120 or 137), right?

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 89):
I can't see any other reason than capacity for LX having this relatively odd leasing agreement.

Must be the capacity. They needed the interim lift and only HF could provide it to them. AFAIK, LX is supposed to be still well known and have good brand recognition in Africa. Before LX, SR also had a big Africa network as well and I believe SR was very well known for their Africa service.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 89):
Or do you mean that otherwise they had to use on of their A320s?

I never meant that. Fact is, they needed something until the ex LH A332s arrive. Sure, it was a pain for their customer to fly in a high density, all economy AB6 for 6+ hours, but I'm sure LX was fully aware of this when they made the choice to hire HF's leased AB6 to fly these routes for them. But now it's all in the past, and these LX Africa routes are now operated with their own metal and the bigger A330.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
PADSpot
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 93):
So basically, Africa can still be safely flown with Transatlantic ETOPS then (ETOPS 120 or 137), right?

Yes. And even if there are small restricted patches, they are so small you could easily circumfly them.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 93):
AFAIK, LX is supposed to be still well known and have good brand recognition in Africa. Before LX, SR also had a big Africa network as well and I believe SR was very well known for their Africa service.

You're sure you don't mean SN? They and AF were (and still are) famous for there Africa service?!

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 93):
Sure, it was a pain for their customer to fly in a high density, all economy AB6 for 6+ hours

In case HF kept the LH seating, I wouldn't mind flying in one of their AB6 for six hours as long as I am in eco anyway. The real drawvback is that it lacks a dedicated business class. I also flew on a CI AB6 with 20+245 seating which als was rather spacious in eco ... no problem for three and a half hours back then.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 94):
You're sure you don't mean SN?

I know SN also had a very comprehensive Africa network before its bankruptcy and its successor took over a few of those routes, but I heard somewhere that SR was also well known for its Africa network. Feel free to correct me though.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:43 pm

Seems that we have one network change for 2008:

Quote:
Lufthansa German Airlines, which operates thrice a week between Calcutta and Frankfurt, will increase the number of flights by next year. “All other airports in India that we operate from have daily flights to Frankfurt. Calcutta, too, will have daily flights soon,” said Werner Heesen, the director (south Asia) of Lufthansa.



Quote:
With the West-bound traffic from Calcutta growing at the rate of 15 per cent per year, more flights will be required to accommodate passengers in the near future, said aviation industry insiders.

A Lufthansa official said the airline has an average of 80 per cent passenger load from Calcutta. It operates Airbus A-330 aircraft with passenger capacities varying between 220 and 250.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070711/asp/calcutta/story_8040476.asp
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:26 pm

Sounds like great news to me, but isn't the name "Calcutta" obsololete since when 2001 when they changed the name to Kolkata?

Can all destinations in India be adresses with A333s, so that LH could potentially start new routes with the smallest (seat-wise) long-haul they current have?

Quote:
Lufthansa German Airlines, which operates thrice a week between Calcutta and Frankfurt



Quote:
A Lufthansa official said the airline has an average of 80 per cent passenger load from Calcutta
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:15 am

watch out for a new destination in Eastern Europe...
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Nimish
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 97):
Can all destinations in India be adresses with A333s, so that LH could potentially start new routes with the smallest (seat-wise) long-haul they current have?

From the GC mapper:



It seems like if the 333 can do FRA-CCU, there's no reason it could not do the other planned cities as well.
Incredible India!

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