jimyvr
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ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:29 am

According to route adjustments announced by ANA in the press release, the 737-700ER that'll be operating Tokyo - Mumbai, will now require a technical stop for refuelling between October and April. The technical stop will be made in Nagasaki, westbound only

Makes one wonder what's the point of getting 737-700ER if it can't fly year-round nonstop all directions.
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Stitch
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:33 am

Well did they get it with one, two, or all three additional tanks?

Each tank takes away from underfloor cargo space. With all three tanks, I think you can only carry two score of bags or such...
 
mk777
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:43 am

Why not upgrade the flight from a 737 to something like a 767 or 777, not enough pax?? I am surprised NH uses only a 737 on the NRT-BOm route!!!!
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ikramerica
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well did they get it with one, two, or all three additional tanks?

IIRC, they didn't get all three fuel tanks.

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Makes one wonder what's the point of getting 737-700ER if it can't fly year-round nonstop all directions.

Or: "why use it on a route it isn't designed for?"  Wink
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cloudyapple
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:58 am

If one has to make a fuel stop, the most fuel efficient place to stop is about half way through the journey. Depending on the FPL it goes for it should be around Chengdu or Chongqing. Or if they take a more comfy but slightly longer southerly route, stop at Hong Kong or Bangkok. Anywhere but Nagasaki. If Narita Mumbai is over the the limit of the aircraft then Nagasaki Mumbai would be at the limit. Expect an unexpected second tech stop on some days at least where the wind is different from expected.
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Carpethead
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:10 pm

Also the NRT-BOM will be six-weekly instead of daily as NH decided to use one of weeklies to increase NRT-SGN to 5 weekly. Not to mention this aircraft will be all-business class with approximately 30 seats.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):

How do you define efficient? Many factors go into where a technical stop is allocated. First, Nagasaki (NGS) is the most western stop within Japan on the way to BOM and NH has its own crews there too. By making the stop at Nagasaki, less fuel uptake is needed at expensive NRT. Consider the fact that most likely the t/o runway at NGS will be longer than the one used at NRT (3000 vs 2180m), which may also be a contributing factor.
 
777way
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 2):
Why not upgrade the flight from a 737 to something like a 767 or 777, not enough pax?? I am surprised NH uses only a 737 on the NRT-BOm route!!!!

Its in all Business class configuration with 36 seats serving a niche demand, probably not enough to warrant larger aircraft.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well did they get it with one, two, or all three additional tanks?

IIRC, they didn't get all three fuel tanks.

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Makes one wonder what's the point of getting 737-700ER if it can't fly year-round nonstop all directions.

Or: "why use it on a route it isn't designed for?"

I agree more with the above but wonder how many extra fuel tanks they did get.

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RobK
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:53 pm

Well, it is/was interesting to note that their first one delivered straight from the factory to them as a "700ER" but never went to GED for the extra fuel tank install. However, their second one did go to GED - and is still there afaik - for the extra fuel tank install so maybe this one will be able to make the run non-stop all year round.

R
 
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Stitch
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Its in all Business class configuration with 36 seats serving a niche demand, probably not enough to warrant larger aircraft.

You sure about that? The news releases I read said it is 24 Business Class and 24 Economy, both 2+2, with 61" pitch in C and 38" pitch in Y and both seats a bit over 20" wide.

Also, you can evidently put up to nine auxiliary tanks in a 737-700ER, though none of the press releases state how many are fitted on NH's.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winte

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:40 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 2):
not enough pax?? I am surprised NH uses only a 737 on the NRT-BOm route!!!!



Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
probably not enough to warrant larger aircraft.

I wonder if they're proposing the tech stop at NGS to make taking additional pax to fill the seats more palatable. People pay top money flying these premium products to have the least inconvenience and delay. A stop on this relatively reasonable route for whatever reason would not sit well with their clientele.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):
If one has to make a fuel stop, the most fuel efficient place to stop is about half way through the journey. [.....] Anywhere but Nagasaki. If Narita Mumbai is over the the limit of the aircraft then Nagasaki Mumbai would be at the limit.



Quoting Carpethead (Reply 5):
First, Nagasaki (NGS) is the most western stop within Japan on the way to BOM and NH has its own crews there too. By making the stop at Nagasaki, less fuel uptake is needed at expensive NRT.


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I guess that with seating reduced from 126 to 48 and they still couldn't manage the extra 907km NRT-BOM distance over the plane's normal range westbound year round - either they install the AFT or lose business.....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/737-700ER/tech.html

.....unless they stuff it full of cargo for more revenue - in which case it definitely would not make the distance, and would need the fuel stop.
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Viscount724
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Its in all Business class configuration with 36 seats serving a niche demand, probably not enough to warrant larger aircraft.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Its in all Business class configuration with 36 seats serving a niche demand, probably not enough to warrant larger aircraft.

You sure about that? The news releases I read said it is 24 Business Class and 24 Economy, both 2+2, with 61" pitch in C and 38" pitch in Y and both seats a bit over 20" wide.

If NH has changed to a 36 seat all Business class configuration, there is no reference to this in their website. Related press release re the 737-700ER service below.
http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/about_ana/corp_info/pr/2006/061225.html
 
777way
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:54 am

The link you have given is of the first Business Jet thats doing Guangzhou.

The second 737 to be used for BOM was to be in all J class configuration with 36 seats when they first announced the order last year. I recall ANA had also stated they would resume BOM when the 787 arrives, so route may get upgraded later.

[Edited 2007-07-07 20:03:16]
 
Viscount724
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 12):
The link you have given is of the first Business Jet thats doing Guangzhou.

The second 737 to be used for BOM was to be in all J class configuration with 36 seats when they first announced the order last year. I recall ANA had also stated they would resume BOM when the 787 arrives, so route may get upgraded later.

Thanks for the clarification. I found the NH 737-700ER seat map page which does show the two different configurations.
http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/int/inflight/seatmap/b737_700er/index.html
 
cloudyapple
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winte

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:24 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 5):
How do you define efficient?

On the assumption that it costs fuel to carry fuel. And the assumption that this additional cost is an exponent of the increase in distance being flown.

The only reason I can come up for them is that they want to fly the shortest route without landing in China or indeed in any countries that is directly on the FPL route. They would be Burma, Bangladesh, Bhutan and Nepal. Not exactly politically stable countries except Bangladesh which might not be an attractive place to stop with a plane load of J pax.

A detour via Hong Kong or Bangkok will add about 400nm-700Nm (1 - 2hrs).
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FLY777UAL
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:11 am

Interior pictures can be found here: http://www.ana-pr.jp/blog/srv/comment.php?_id=117

...not quite the new ANA Business Class seats, but I guess good enough...

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pzurita1
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 14):
They would be Burma, Bangladesh, Bhutan and Nepal. Not exactly politically stable countries except Bangladesh which might not be an attractive place to stop with a plane load of J pax

Bhutan is a perfectly stable country. However, landing at they tiny runway at Paro might not be a good idea at all.

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jimyvr
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RE: ANA 737-700ER NRT-BOM Needs Tech Stop In Winter

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:32 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
The news releases I read said it is 24 Business Class and 24 Economy, both 2+2, with 61" pitch in C and 38" pitch in Y and both seats a bit over 20" wide.

That one flies NGO-CAN only for 1st 737-700ER.

2nd 737-700ER is C36.
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