Central American Aviation Thread, Lucky 13!

2travel2know · Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:05 am

Panama City is not a Passenger-friendly destination for diversions.
Last week an AA flying GYE-MIA had to make an emergency landing at PTY Tocumén Airport.
I came on the news that a great number of passengers couldn't leave the airport because there were no rooms available in Panama City that night for them.
I know that it's very hard to get rooms on almost all hotels in Panama City, I also know that taking those passengers to hotels in Colon wasn't an option and to make things worse, Ecuadoreans need visas for Panama, so all Ecuadoreans leaving the airport due to CM transit connections / other diversion need to be escorted by an immigration officer.

TACAA320 · Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 131):
Let CM and TA fight to death fight and in the end the customers will win with lower fares.

Don't you think that "compete with dignity" instead of "fight to death" is more civilized ? Even more, why " fight to death " and create a monopoly ?

Quoting Luisca (Reply 142):
TACA has a problem because they are very disorganized IMO,

I call such affirmation as an "offense". And you have to prove that.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 142):
AND ABOUT bureaucracy in Costa Rica all I can say (as a 1/4 tico) is that you get the government you deserve

I'm very happy with mine. I really hope that you also be happy with Bush [ isn't he "rocks"?]. I can barely remember your previous signature.

[Edited 2007-08-13 21:39:17]

2travel2know · Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:23 am

Hope CM 1st COR flight doesn't encounter some problems in COR.
COR airport Meteorologists to protest today (Link in Spanish, from La Voz, Cordoba newspaper)
How convenient to set up a protest the day COR is to get it's 1st CM flight.

SJOtoLIR · Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 145):
HZ-WBT7, the private 747 of Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal arrived at LIR from PTY at around 21:30 LT

Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal´s B744 belonged to Air China (IATA code: CA). Not to be confused with China Airlines (IATA code: CI).

.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 152):
Hope CM 1st COR flight doesn't encounter some problems in COR.

I hopefully expect that Argentinean authorities find a way to resolve it.
Maybe COR is a little bit unfamiliar for Central Americans. Where have the jet aircrafts headed in a possible diversion from COR?
PTY-COR with B73G today and COR had been operating normally on August 15th, according flightstats.com.
Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:29 am

From "La República". San José, Costa Rica. August 14 th, 2007:
Sansa (Taca Regional from Costa Rica) is planning to start a base in LIR with services to some regional airfields.
"La República" states that Sansa will acquire 10 more Cessna Grand Caravan to renew their fleet in 2009.

LTU932 · Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 150):
Ecuadoreans need visas for Panama, so all Ecuadoreans leaving the airport due to CM transit connections / other diversion need to be escorted by an immigration officer.

I recall the Visa requirement for Ecuadorians was one of the reasons for the big controversy regarding NM almost 2 years ago. Many Ecuadoreans were basically "put into custody" by Panamanian Immigration during a technical diversion to PTY which required them to stay at a hotel. Needless to say, not only the passengers without Panamanian visa were pissed about the problem that they couldn't leave the hotel, they were also pissed about being stuck in Panama for 3 whole days, and not being allowed to leave the hotel to at least take a walk in the city and get some fresh air. Just imagine 3 whole days being stuck because of a diversion and without a Visa for a country where you may be required to have one. It makes me wonder, if an aircraft that has to divert to the US even though the final destination is never the US or no stop is to be made of the US, what US immigration does to those who don't have a Visa (except passengers from Visa Waiver countries) because they never anticipated a stop in the US.

Just food for thought.

2travel2know · Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 153):
Maybe COR is a little bit unfamiliar for Central Americans. Where have the jet aircrafts headed in a possible diversion from COR?

Lately COR has been used by CM on several SCL (when MDZ is also closed) or EZE diversions. As of where to divert if COR is closed, I would guess MDZ, ROS, TUC or SLA (these last 3, if open 24/7).

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 155):
Needless to say, not only the passengers without Panamanian visa were pissed about the problem that they couldn't leave the hotel, they were also pissed about being stuck in Panama for 3 whole days, and not being allowed to leave the hotel to at least take a walk in the city and get some fresh air.

It seems that due to CM Hub of The Americas success, it's likely that some nationals who need visas for Panama are now allowed to go shopping or overnight in a Panama City hotel a bit freely, but still under Panamanian immigration personnel custody.
Usually this happens only for groups no bigger than 6 passengers and if there are immigration personnel available to escort the passengers. Problem arises when is a plane-load of passengers which don't have Panamanian visas.

LTU932 · Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:23 pm

There's something that seems to be going pretty unnoticed, and which seems to be the only thing in favour of SJO: It's Coopesa and its MRO business. They seem to have plenty of customers, especially when we had a wave of former RG aircraft coming down here for maintenance and new paintjobs for delivery for new carriers (e.g. G3), not to mention tons of leasing companies and airlines such as AQ using Coopesa. I was wondering how they were doing, especially when compared with rival Aeroman in SAL.

2travel2know · Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:29 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 157):
There's something that seems to be going pretty unnoticed, and which seems to be the only thing in favour of SJO: It's Coopesa and its MRO business. They seem to have plenty of customers, especially when we had a wave of former RG aircraft coming down here for maintenance and new paintjobs for delivery for new carriers (e.g. G3), not to mention tons of leasing companies and airlines such as AQ using Coopesa. I was wondering how they were doing, especially when compared with rival Aeroman in SAL.

Nowadays you've to add Singapore Aerospace MRO facilities @ Howard BLB/MPHO.

LTU932 · Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 158):
Nowadays you've to add Singapore Aerospace MRO facilities @ Howard BLB/MPHO.

I didn't know about that one.

luisca · Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 159):
I didn't know about that one.

Brand new, run by ST Airspace based in Howard (BLB), they are doing the heavy D checks for CM.

http://www.staero.aero/

yellowtail · Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:32 am

Hold on to your hats boys and girls....looks like it is gonan be a close one at BZE, MID, CUN, CZM with hurricane Dean early next week....turn baby...turn!

luisca · Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 161):
Hold on to your hats boys and girls....looks like it is gonan be a close one at BZE, MID, CUN, CZM with hurricane Dean early next week....turn baby...turn!

If it turns it heads over here, I start my LAST semester on Monday, And i live on a barrier Island beach side!. Come on guys take one for the team!

On the other hand a nice hurricane party next week wouldn't be too bad.

yellowtail · Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 162):
Come on guys take one for the team!

Ah...how do I say this gently.....NO!.

You can just have George W. write some more checks Big grin

.......and who knows they might even give you your grades to graduate....

I think Mex, Jamaica, Cayman and Belize can do without this right now.

2travel2know · Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:53 am

CM arrived in COR this morning, but the local COR press got PTY airport name wrong, they called it Tucumán ( TUC ! ) instead of Tocumén.
(Link in Spanish)

MAH4546 · Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:14 am

American Airlines will be announcing Dallas-Panama City service next week.

snaiks · Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 165):
American Airlines will be announcing Dallas-Panama City service next week.

What AC are they gonna use a 753? nice that they now have flights into DAL, they should have done that a while ago, what will CM do?

luisca · Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 165):
American Airlines will be announcing Dallas-Panama City service next week.

They tried it in the 90s and it didnt work, things I different now so I am sure it will work this time.

Quoting Snaiks (Reply 166):
What AC are they gonna use a 753? nice that they now have flights into DAL, they should have done that a while ago, what will CM do?

Must be a 738.

yellowtail · Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 167):
They tried it in the 90s and it didnt work, things I different now so I am sure it will work this time

I am sure it will to....

On another note...waiting patiently on CM to start BZE....I have to go CO BZE-IAH-PTY then CM to Quito next week...would have been nice to cut out the IAH 2000 mile detour!

SJOtoLIR · Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 165):
American Airlines will be announcing Dallas-Panama City service next week.

AA would not stay one step behind from their U.S. competitors: DL will add JFK-PTY in December beside the current CO operations to IAH and EWR.
The model AA´s PTY-DFW bears resemblance with CO´s PTY-IAH connecting to U.S. and Canadian western bounds and even some of their Asian and European destinations.
DFW-Central America on AA:
DFW-SJO................B757
DFW-BZE................B738
DFW-GUA...............B738

md90fan · Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 167):

They tried it in the 90s and it didnt work, things I different now so I am sure it will work this time.

I'm not so sure that it will even work now, back in the 90s the route performed very poorly, a very similar route (similar in the sense it takes overflow/low yielding traffic from MIA), DFW-CCS does very poor.

snaiks · Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 168):
On another note...waiting patiently on CM to start BZE....I have to go CO BZE-IAH-PTY then CM to Quito next week...would have been nice to cut out the IAH 2000 mile detour!

im sure u will like the extra 2000 FF miles

luisca · Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 170):
I'm not so sure that it will even work now, back in the 90s the route performed very poorly, a very similar route (similar in the sense it takes overflow/low yielding traffic from MIA), DFW-CCS does very poor.

Panama's Economy has greatly evolved and a lot of bussines is done between Asia and Panama and this flight will ofer a lot more connections. MIA used to be served by A300s when DFW-PTY was first tried, now they use 757s and they are always full, Miami is still Miami and it is a Huge O&D market for PTY, it will not compete with DFW. BTW there is no such thing as a low yeilding flight to PTY, ask anybody that has to buy a plane ticket there.

md90fan · Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 172):
Panama's Economy has greatly evolved and a lot of bussines is done between Asia and Panama and this flight will ofer a lot more connections

Of course it has, to me, the ICE Tower (RIP) was a good reminder of the growth of Panama's economy.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 172):
Miami is still Miami and it is a Huge O&D market for PTY, it will not compete with DFW. BTW there is no such thing as a low yeilding flight to PTY, ask anybody that has to buy a plane ticket there.

I never said it was low yeilding, it was a general statement about AA's DFW-Latin American flights, which is, for the most part true.

luisca · Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 173):
Of course it has, to me, the ICE Tower (RIP) was a good reminder of the growth of Panama's economy.

So 2 cancelled apartment buildings vs over 80 projects in construction is how you judge the entire economy of a country, nice. sarcastic

md90fan · Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:34 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 174):
So 2 cancelled apartment buildings vs over 80 projects in construction is how you judge the entire economy of a country, nice.

Out of those 80 buildings, I said ICE because they were supposed to be the largest building in Latin America, so it was a sign that they were doing something right, right?

Anyways, why the sarcastic face? On the rag? Cheer up

EDIT: ICE was supposed to be the tallest residential building in the WORLD

[Edited 2007-08-25 01:52:03]

luisca · Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 175):
Out of those 80 buildings, I said ICE because they were supposed to be the largest building in Latin America, so it was a sign that they were doing something right, right?

It was crazy to begin with, the new project calls for 80 floors, the other problem and it is why the former purchasers are going to court was becouse they originally bought it at 1200$ per square meter and now you cant get anythign bellow 2000 in Panama City. My family was lucky enought to buy for 1000$ a sqare meter ocean front.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 175):

Anyways, why the sarcastic face? On the rag? Cheer up

Just woken up by a prank by my roomate, long day! biggrin

luisca · Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:56 am

CM recives 2 new E90s in one day!, fleet up to 35 aircraft now, 10 E90s and 25 737s.

http://www.copaair.com/nuestraempresa/noticias/noticia.aspx?ID=111

SJOtoLIR · Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Snaiks (Reply 166):
What AC are they gonna use a 753?

AA utilizes B757-223, not the 300 series.
No idea if this will be the aircraft for DFW-PTY...

.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 168):
I have to go CO BZE-IAH-PTY then CM to Quito next week...would have been nice to cut out the IAH 2000 mile detour

Unfeasible option: AA BZE-UIO. Layover at MIA. Almost 2300 nm. Limited connection time.

.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 177):
CM receives 2 new E90s in one day!,

What about the schedules for such airplanes?

SJOtoLIR · Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:24 am

Update:
TA has already scheduled the new LIM-MVD and vice versa.
This information is available in its website.
.
TA 041.........LIM 21:00..............MVD 04:28+1...........Equipment: A319.
TA 040........ MVD 08:00............LIM 09:30.................Equipment: A319.

juanchito · Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 179):
Update:
TA has already scheduled the new LIM-MVD and vice versa.
This information is available in its website.
.
TA 041.........LIM 21:00..............MVD 04:28+1...........Equipment: A319.
TA 040........ MVD 08:00............LIM 09:30.................Equipment: A319.

Good for TA.

Juanchito

LTU932 · Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 179):
TA 041.........LIM 21:00..............MVD 04:28+1...........Equipment: A319.

Those seem like pretty odd times for a flight to MVD from not so far away LIM. What could be the reason behind such flight times?

TACAA320 · Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting Juanchito (Reply 180):
Good for TA.

I second that!

SJOtoLIR · Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 181):
Those seem like pretty odd times for a flight to MVD from not so far away LIM. What could be the reason behind such flight times?

TA´s departing schedule in LIM figures in two ranges along the day: (10:00-11:00) and (21:00-22:00).
TA is trying to feed the future flight to MVD with passengers coming mainly from their arriving flights in LIM: SAL, SJO, BOG, CCS and UIO. These flights also carried passengers who have been transferred from their destinations from the rest of Central America, the Caribbean and even North America. This model is only possible following the scenario at (21:00-22:00). This pattern seems to fit for a new destination with four frequencies a week and using a 319 narrowbody.
If LIM-MVD operates as a daylight itinerary, it will not be available for the regions posted above. As a reference, TA does a second daylight flight to EZE, GRU and others as complement to their flights placed at 21:00-22:00.
CM flies to "far South America" bearing a resemblance with this model. Just a take a look at their arriving times: EZE, COR, MVD, GIG, GRU and SCL. I also add that CM includes an extra daylight service to EZE, SCL and GRU.
Just as a reference : mostly of flights linking USA to "far South America" arrive early in the morning to their final destinations.
Regards.

MGASJO · Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:53 am

Well, good news from MGA.
Seems that finally a new airline will come soon. Early refered to as LAN -Lineas Aereas de Nicaragua- don't know what they will do when they find out LAN already exists. A government approved conglomerate of spanish and Emirate business people will start this project. Allegedly 2 737-400 with YN registration will cover the central american operations, 2 N registration MD80s will cover flights to USA and 2 YN registered 767s will cover MGA-HAV-MAD (doesn't that sounds lovely??). Some spanish investors from the defunct AirMadrid were here a couple of years ago and they announced they were planning to start operations here, which included a dedicated maintenance hangar; eventually their investment group managed to purchase the majority of Hotel Camino Real near the airport, but have been quiet ever since (maybe this is the same group, couldn't tell you for sure).
They are already hiring pilots, MX crews, F/As and ground personnel.

My source is 1 pilot and 2 mx guys that already applied. They claim they were told they were going to be paid more than TA and given 2 year contracts. They also claim they will fight TA for the MGA-MIA route that used to belong to NICA (6Y back in the days). Supuestamente our comandante president is happy with the project and relies on it being a long term project not like the some of the short term fiascos that came here (Sol Air rings a bell).

I'll keep you updated

juanchito · Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting MGASJO (Reply 184):
Well, good news from MGA.
Seems that finally a new airline will come soon. Early refered to as LAN -Lineas Aereas de Nicaragua- don't know what they will do when they find out LAN already exists. A government approved conglomerate of spanish and Emirate business people will start this project. Allegedly 2 737-400 with YN registration will cover the central american operations, 2 N registration MD80s will cover flights to USA and 2 YN registered 767s will cover MGA-HAV-MAD (doesn't that sounds lovely??). Some spanish investors from the defunct AirMadrid were here a couple of years ago and they announced they were planning to start operations here, which included a dedicated maintenance hangar; eventually their investment group managed to purchase the majority of Hotel Camino Real near the airport, but have been quiet ever since (maybe this is the same group, couldn't tell you for sure).
They are already hiring pilots, MX crews, F/As and ground personnel.

My source is 1 pilot and 2 mx guys that already applied. They claim they were told they were going to be paid more than TA and given 2 year contracts. They also claim they will fight TA for the MGA-MIA route that used to belong to NICA (6Y back in the days). Supuestamente our comandante president is happy with the project and relies on it being a long term project not like the some of the short term fiascos that came here (Sol Air rings a bell).

I'll keep you updated

This sounds very good for Nicaragua and the region, hope everything materialize. The 767 sounds good hope it becomes a reallity.

Juanchito

TACAA320 · Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting MGASJO (Reply 184):
Early refered to as LAN -Lineas Aereas de Nicaragua- don't know what they will do when they find out LAN already exists.

They will definitely can't use the name "LAN" since already is a trademark of LA.

SJOtoLIR · Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 179):
TA 041.........LIM 21:00..............MVD 04:28+1...........Equipment: A319.
TA 040........ MVD 08:00............LIM 09:30.................Equipment: A319.

Times are OK.
LIM-MVD is about 1830 nm. Flying schedule time: 04:25.
For the meantime:
LIM: UTC/GMT -5
MVD: UTC/GMT -3
Clocks are turned forward one hour to October 7th in Uruguay.
LIM-MVD starts: October 21st.

yellowtail · Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 178):

Unfeasible option: AA BZE-UIO. Layover at MIA. Almost 2300 nm. Limited connection time.

Well I could have gone TA: SAL-SJO-PTY then CM....but that would also have entailed a layover and with TA bumping people left and right here in BZE didn't want to take the chance.

luisca · Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting MGASJO (Reply 184):

Doesn't this sound a little bit like delusions of grandeur from your Comandante? I got nothing against new airlines starting up, but this highly ambitious plan from the get go sounds to good to be true. Time will tell.

TACAA320 · Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 168):
I have to go CO BZE-IAH-PTY then CM to Quito next week

That's an expensive route:

[Just for illustrative purposes]

Select Departing Flight
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The fare displayed is the lowest available for the dates requested; however some flights may not be in the cabin you requested.

Your Search by Price:
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Depart: Belize City, Belize (BZE) Date: Thu., Aug. 30, 2007 Time: Anytime Cabin: Economy
Arrive: Quito, Ecuador (UIO)
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Our Lowest Fares

With Stops
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$1,504.00 First/BusinessFirst Cabin
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Select Your Departing Flight for Thu., Aug. 30, 2007:
Price Departing Arriving Travel Time OnePass Miles
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$1,504.00

Depart:
11:23 a.m.
Thu., Aug. 30, 2007
Belize City, Belize (BZE) Arrive:
2:55 p.m.
Thu., Aug. 30, 2007
Houston, TX (IAH - Intercontinental) Flight Time:
2 hr 32 mn OnePass Miles/
Elite Qualification:
965 /100% Flight: CO1650
Aircraft: Boeing 737-300
Fare Class: Economy (I)
Meal: Snack
No Special Meal Offered.
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Change Planes. Connect time in Houston, TX (IAH - Intercontinental) is 2 hours 55 minutes.
Depart:
5:50 p.m.
Thu., Aug. 30, 2007
Houston, TX (IAH - Intercontinental) Arrive:
11:13 p.m.
Thu., Aug. 30, 2007
Quito, Ecuador (UIO) Flight Time:
5 hr 23 mn

Travel Time:
10 hr 50 mn OnePass Miles/
Elite Qualification:
2,350 /100%

Total Miles:
3,315 Flight: CO653
Aircraft: Boeing 757-200
Fare Class: Economy (M)
Meal: Dinner
View Seats

Higher than any ticket from SJO to EZE or even MAD.

I wish luck. Have a nice trip !

[Pls. write a TR].

yellowtail · Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 190):
That's an expensive route:

Actually when I booked some months ago it was cheaper to do the stop in PTY so that is the reason.

GUYS..TIME FOR A NEW THREAD!

carmenlu15 · Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 191):

GUYS..TIME FOR A NEW THREAD!

Working on that... embarrassed

carmenlu15 · Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 192):
Working on that...

... and done! Central American Aviation Thread - 14 (by Carmenlu15 Aug 28 2007 in Civil Aviation)

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