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daus
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Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:35 am

Boeing to deliver test 787s to its customers
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/pro...x?feed=FT&Date=20070706&ID=7133513

Boeing will deliver the six 787 aircraft used for flight-testing to its launch customers in order to keep the entry into service of its crucial new plane on track for next May.

The 787 is Boeing's first all-new plane in a decade and has been a runaway sales success even before its first flight, but the company has been battling production problems to keep the programme on schedule.

"We have no intention of being late into service," said Mike Bair, the head of the 787 programme, at a presentation ahead of the aircraft's official roll-out on July 8, though he conceded Boeing has a contingency plan if there are problems in the test programme.

......

"Mr Bair said the test programme for the 787 had been "compressed" to eight months from the 11 months used to evaluate the Boeing 777 aircraft in the early 1990s.



How new is this? Where were the test frames originally destined?

[Edited 2007-07-07 04:38:48]
 
GivenRandy
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:37 am

I can't wait for the flight reports. Anyone know where first US flights will be?
 
atmx2000
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:37 am

To airlines, but I don't know which airlines
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MCIGuy
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:50 am

Edit: OK, I had that all screwed up!

Courtesy of flightblogger.blogspot.com:



[Edited 2007-07-07 04:55:35]
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zvezda
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Daus (Thread starter):
How new is this? Where were the test frames originally destined?

This is not at all new. This has always been the plan. The test frames are always delivered to customers in every new airliner program. Before CAD, the prototype was sometimes not delivered to a customer.
 
Shenzhen
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
This is not at all new. This has always been the plan. The test frames are always delivered to customers in every new airliner program. Before CAD, the prototype was sometimes not delivered to a customer.

I know tha Boeing kept the first 747, 757 and 767 but not sure about the rest. I'm pretty certain that the 777 was the first model that Boeing didn't keep the first plane.

Cheers

[Edited 2007-07-07 05:05:20]
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Quoting Daus (Thread starter):
How new is this? Where were the test frames originally destined?

This is not at all new. This has always been the plan. The test frames are always delivered to customers in every new airliner program. Before CAD, the prototype was sometimes not delivered to a customer.

Word, it would be costly for Boeing to hold onto 8 787s and for what reason? The first six will be sub-optimal (overweight) and I'm sure some kind of extra discount has been worked out on those frames.
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 6):
The first six will be sub-optimal (overweight) and I'm sure some kind of extra discount has been worked out on those frames.

Are we sure all six will be overweight? Are we sure any of the six will be? And even if they all are, Boeing continues to say they are within the guaranteed maximum weight so there should be no penalties or additional discounts required for that reason.
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:28 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):

I thought they did officially say that LN7 would be the first optimized 787, that it was too late for the first six by the end of the weight loss program.
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iwok
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting Daus (Thread starter):
"Mr Bair said the test programme for the 787 had been "compressed" to eight months from the 11 months used to evaluate the Boeing 777 aircraft in the early 1990s.

This is the first I've heard of this, although I suppose if I counted months then this is what I would get.

Anyone getting nervous about a delayed EIS? I can imagine the pressure those guys are under at Boeing to make sure everything goes on schedule. All I can say is GOOD LUCK!

iwok
 
707437
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:36 pm

I believe that the first 727 (the prototype) was sold to United. . .

and the first 737 was sold to NASA as a test aircraft. . .

Both are now owned by the MoF in Seattle
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:59 pm

its likely that the 787 frame 1 has in the sales contract that Boeing has the right to buy it first any time it is sold to prevent the frame from being scrapped instead of returned to Boeing for the museum.

In any event it makes little sense to not put the first frame into service unless it suffers heavy damage during flight test or is materialy different than the other planes that follow. In the past it was typicly a combination of the two as they would often make massive numbers of changes to the planes after the first couple of frames had been tested and shown what is needed.... as time went on its been less and less of that.
 
Danny
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:01 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
This is not at all new. This has always been the plan. The test frames are always delivered to customers in every new airliner program. Before CAD, the prototype was sometimes not delivered to a customer.

It is normal but not as first deliveries to launch customers. It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid delay in EIS.
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:11 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid delay in EIS.

That doesn't even make sense. Boeing will have already built a few dozen 787s at the time of certification. The EIS date does not depend on selling the test frames.
 
siromega
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:11 pm

I thought Boeing said the parts were coming in underweight. Not that will fix everything, but the first frames might be less overweight.

And also, from what I remember, the test planes get refurbed and then sent to customers. But they arent necessarily the first delivered (Line #7 might be).
 
grantcv
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:17 pm

I don't believe it is correct to refer to the first plane built as the prototype - for all Boeing 7 series aircraft. The only prototype jetliner Boeing has ever built was the 367-80 prototype. Since then, all the planes have come down the standard production line and, for that reason, cannot be termed "prototypes". Boeing has kept some of the initial models - 747, 757, 767, 777 (which they later sold). For the 727 program, Boeing kept the second plane off the line (E2). While these planes remained in Boeing hands, that did not make them "prototypes".
 
Danny
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:18 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
That doesn't even make sense. Boeing will have already built a few dozen 787s at the time of certification. The EIS date does not depend on selling the test frames.

Maybe they will have few dozen (I doubt it) but OK - an attempt to avoid delay in early deliveries (not EIS).
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
It is normal but not as first deliveries to launch customers. It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid delay in EIS.

You do know that it takes months of rework and repairs to bring a test frame into condition to deliver to customers. Miles of wiring, hundreds of pounds of sensors, and other test equipment must be removed. Then the frame has any/all damage repaired that it suffered during flight testing. When that is done, it must then go and have the interior and all associated fittings installed.

So your statement is factually wrong. It is impossible to use test frames to SPEED delivery to the final customer. Boeing has even said that if needed it will ADD frames to the test program to get it done on time. So first delivery preservation would put MORE frames in the test program, and late for that individual customer.

BTW I wish people would stop using EIS as a real date that is somehow meaningful. EIS is not a date in any way in Boeings control. Many times in the past it was NOT the first delivery customer with a new model of airplane to have the first EIS. I know EIS is snappier and easier to type than "first delivery to a customer", but really we need to get the terms right if we are using one that means nothing as far as Boeing responsibility and contractual obligations. For all Boeing knows or cares the first plane delivered could go straight into a museum if the owner so chose and never have a EIS at all.
 
grantcv
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:35 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
Maybe they will have few dozen (I doubt it) but OK - an attempt to avoid delay in early deliveries (not EIS).

What Boeing is doing is what they have always done in all 7-series programs - the test planes go to paying customers. I believe that the first plane to be delivered next May will not be a test plane though - as the test planes need to be refurbished before they can be delivered - removing test gear and installing customer fittings. Saying that Boeing is delivering the first six planes to the launch customer in order to avoid a delay in EIS is factually incorrect, as they will be delivered later. Saying that they are being delivered to launch customers to avoid a production delay is also incorrect - as that has always been part of the plan. These are new aircraft - there is no reason for Boeing to keep them or toss them. I believe that the launch customers do get a discount for accepting aircraft used in the test program.
 
Danny
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:38 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
You do know that it takes months of rework and repairs to bring a test frame into condition to deliver to customers. Miles of wiring, hundreds of pounds of sensors, and other test equipment must be removed. Then the frame has any/all damage repaired that it suffered during flight testing. When that is done, it must then go and have the interior and all associated fittings installed.



Quoting Grantcv (Reply 18):
What Boeing is doing is what they have always done in all 7-series programs - the test planes go to paying customers. I believe that the first plane to be delivered next May will not be a test plane though - as the test planes need to be refurbished before they can be delivered

Please read the article:

"Boeing will deliver the six 787 aircraft used for flight-testing to its launch customers in order to keep the entry into service of its crucial new plane on track for next May."
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:55 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 19):
Please read the article:

The article is wrong for the reasons listed above. The journalist probably misunderstood. It is a common occurrence.
 
Carpethead
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
BTW I wish people would stop using EIS as a real date that is somehow meaningful. EIS is not a date in any way in Boeings control. Many times in the past it was NOT the first delivery customer with a new model of airplane to have the first EIS. I know EIS is snappier and easier to type than "first delivery to a customer", but really we need to get the terms right if we are using one that means nothing as far as Boeing responsibility and contractual obligations. For all Boeing knows or cares the first plane delivered could go straight into a museum if the owner so chose and never have a EIS at all.

Right on.
If the test program stays on track for delivery in May 2008, NH will certainly take delivery but EIS will be at the earliest June or July. It's been over 10 years since JL or NH has taken delivery of a totally new type of aircraft, the 777. If anything is an indicator, NH has usually faster EIS after delivery than JL. Take for example the 737NG, NH took about one month for EIS while JL took close to three months. Japanese airlines are conservative that they want to familiarize with the aircraft before actual service and even if the 788 is configured for int'l service it will most likely end up on a domestic run for the first few months. Though I am not sure who the second airline the 788 is supposed to go to, it might be that airline that has the first EIS.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:10 pm

Just out of curiosity, what became of the first 707? The 367-80 was NOT a 707; just about the only thing it had in common was the landing gear (if that.) Didn't the 707 have to have its own certification program?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
socalfive
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 5):
I'm pretty certain that the 777 was the first model that Boeing didn't keep the first plane.



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
You do know that it takes months of rework and repairs to bring a test frame into condition to deliver to customers.

Oh it does not, it didn't take "months" to build the entire airplane.  Yeah sure
 
A10WARTHOG
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 23):
Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
You do know that it takes months of rework and repairs to bring a test frame into condition to deliver to customers.



Quoting Socalfive (Reply 23):
Oh it does not, it didn't take "months" to build the entire airplane

I have talk to people that have done the rework. They said it took 3 months per plane do to. All the flight test equipment, wiring, brackets, etc has to come out. I would say engines, apu, other components have to be RAR. Customers do not like alot of time on their equipment. Then the interior has to be installed. So yes it could take months.
 
IAD787
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:37 pm

If anyone is wondering, additional details are at my site. The large image referenced above is fully explained here:

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/2007/06/first-eight.html

Enjoy.

IAD787
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
daus
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
It is impossible to use test frames to SPEED delivery to the final customer

That is why I found this article so odd, it didn't make sense to me. I had no doubt that the test frames would eventually go to paying customers, but it's usually after fresh production frames have gone out to customers.
 
Thorben
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 3):

The article says that three of the first six will go to China. Is that wrong?

Quoting Iwok (Reply 9):
Anyone getting nervous about a delayed EIS?

I would be, if was responsible. The "compressed" test flight program, plus the issue with the lack of titanium bolts are points where the whole thing can get delayed, and these are only the factors we know of.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
It is normal but not as first deliveries to launch customers. It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid delay in EIS.

Just have to rain on the parade, eh?

Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
The article says that three of the first six will go to China. Is that wrong?

Air China is scheduled to get LN8/ZA008, but the other seven go to NH (3), NW (2), and AT (2).

[Edited 2007-07-07 16:42:44]
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting Daus (Reply 26):

That is why I found this article so odd, it didn't make sense to me. I had no doubt that the test frames would eventually go to paying customers, but it's usually after fresh production frames have gone out to customers.

If you believe anything in the media is accurate, especially about technical matters, then have I got a deal on a bridge in Brooklyn for you.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 6):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Quoting Daus (Thread starter):
How new is this? Where were the test frames originally destined?

This is not at all new. This has always been the plan. The test frames are always delivered to customers in every new airliner program. Before CAD, the prototype was sometimes not delivered to a customer.

Word, it would be costly for Boeing to hold onto 8 787s and for what reason? The first six will be sub-optimal (overweight) and I'm sure some kind of extra discount has been worked out on those frames.

"overweight" to internal targets, not to what they promised their customers....
"Up the Irons!"
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
"overweight" to internal targets, not to what they promised their customers....

Yeah, but they will have a payload/range penalty compared to production 787s LN7+. I would think they'd get a little better deal on these frames, especially being a launch customer. I have to believe there was a little "wheeling and dealing" behind the scenes here.  Smile
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SEPilot
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 31):
Yeah, but they will have a payload/range penalty compared to production 787s LN7+. I would think they'd get a little better deal on these frames, especially being a launch customer. I have to believe there was a little "wheeling and dealing" behind the scenes here.

I'm quite sure that the first 6 frames will be sold at a significantly reduced price from the rest of the lot. No airline exec in his right mind would accept them otherwise.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
grantcv
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 19):
Please read the article:

"Boeing will deliver the six 787 aircraft used for flight-testing to its launch customers in order to keep the entry into service of its crucial new plane on track for next May."

The press usually don't get things 100% correct. Given the amount of time it would take to reconfigure a test aircraft for a customer, it would ensure that EIS was late. For instance, if flight testing were completed next May, and it took 2-3 months to reconfigure the plane, then deliveries would only happen next August or so - 2-3 months late. That is why the initial planes won't be flight test aircraft - they will be fresh off the assembly line aircraft. Flight test aircraft will be delivered a bit later, and the receiving airline would have received a bit of a discount on those birds. That is the way it always is.

As someone once told me - if reporters were any good at doing something other than attempting to write about it - they would be doing that instead. They are seldom any good at matters technical - and in my experience, they are usually dreadfully awful.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 31):
Yeah, but they will have a payload/range penalty compared to production 787s LN7+. I would think they'd get a little better deal on these frames, especially being a launch customer. I have to believe there was a little "wheeling and dealing" behind the scenes here.

..oh sure, I also believe they will get a good deal on those birds..but I wanted to make sure the record was set straight... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 32):
I'm quite sure that the first 6 frames will be sold at a significantly reduced price from the rest of the lot. No airline exec in his right mind would accept them otherwise.

I doubt the first 6 will have any extra discount for the weight. You are right that there is a bit of extra discount for the hours put on the test frames, and some discount for the possibility they will be a unique subfleet (aka pre-production systems and the like). The unique part of test frames I thought was going away but then the A380 comes along and in many ways they resemble ocean going ships more than planes in that the first few frames are all fairly different from each other. Ships might all be of a class and yet it might be that no two of that class share any measurement or even equipment with each other.


I'd put it to you that right now with the lack of quality midsize widebody frames in the market that the 787 test frames could likely sell on the open market for close to list if offered right on delivery, so there will be minimal incentive for Boeing to sweeten the deal for the "weight" issue, and the airline would have minimal incentive to ask for it. So I'd put money on that those frames will go to the new owners with no extra haggling on that issue.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting Daus (Thread starter):
"We have no intention of being late into service," said Mike Bair, the head of the 787 programme

Gotta love corporate-speak... he had me scared there for a moment!  rotfl 
 
azhobo
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid delay in EIS.

Yeah, to bad A did not think of it. Of course their flight program is still on going and with several A380 EIS dates still to go.... flight birds, non production rep birds, and production birds....

HOBO
 
flyabr
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid delay in EIS.

i'm not sure what is soo desperate about wanting to meet the goals you set for yourself...??
 
dutchjet
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:05 am

I guess that I am confused........why is the fact that Boeing will deliver the 6 airplanes in the 787 test program to customers any type of news or any type of surprise? Aircraft in the test program are built for airline customers, utilized for various testing purposes (usually each aircraft has a specific role in the program), and when certification is received, the subject airplanes are refurbished and are delivered to the airline customer. UA is flying some of the 777 used in that type's certification process, CX has another, etc., for example. Sometimes the manufacturer will hold on to one airframe as a "demonstrator"" model, and to use as a testbed for future improvements or modifications to the type, and sometimes they dont....all as discussed above.

I dont think that anyone of us thought that Boeing would retain the six 787s, or otherwise dispose of them......???
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 37):


Quoting Danny,reply=12:
It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid delay in EIS.

Yeah, to bad A did not think of it.

In a way, they are. EY is deferring the delivery of their A388s, of which all are test frames. So Airbus is shopping them around to other carriers to accelerate their deliveries. The rumor de jour right now is IT wants them.
 
trent1000
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:36 am

Does the Museum of Flight near Seattle have a mock up section of a 787?
Also, do the test 787s have a code like the A380, MSN 001 etc?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Trent1000 (Reply 41):
Does the Museum of Flight near Seattle have a mock up section of a 787?

The Museum of Future Flight at PAE has one of the test fuselage barrels as well as a static cabin mock-up, though the seat design will never see the inside of a plane.

Quoting Trent1000 (Reply 41):
Also, do the test 787s have a code like the A380, MSN 001 etc?

All 787 frames have an LN and a ZA number.

So the first plane is LN0001 / ZA001. The second is LN0002 / ZA002. And so on.

The test frames are LN0001-0007 / ZA001-007.

The two static test frames are LN9997 and LN9998.
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:08 am

I think we would also see some UFO's being ID'd ! Other then that i dont see a huge spree of orders at the event . Maybe right after it . Consider that most of the limelight would go to boeing and suppliers of the aircraft itself . I bet the newsrooms around US would be abuzz with composite folks and Abulafia's . In all the 787 glitter a 12 aircaft order or a 10 aircraft order might not gain as much PR as it might otherwise , on a dull gloomy day when nothing much is happening in the industry . Unless we see a mega order nothing much will get decent PR time during the ceremony .
 
srbmod
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RE: Boeing To Deliver Test 787s To Its Customers

Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 14):
And also, from what I remember, the test planes get refurbed and then sent to customers. But they arent necessarily the first delivered (Line #7 might be).

With the 717 program, four of the five test a/c were delivered to customers. N717XB & N717XC went to Impulse (Were originally to have been delivered to Wuhan Airlines) and N717XD & N717XE went to AirTran. While N942AT was the first delivered a/c for FL, it's ship number is 703. 701 (N949AT) is the former N717XD and 702 (N940AT) is the former N717XE. 701 and 702 were delivered four months and two months after 703 was delivered.

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 15):
Boeing has kept some of the initial models - 747, 757, 767, 777 (which they later sold)

Last I heard, the first 717 was still sitting in a hangar @ LGB partially broken up for spares.

[Edited 2007-07-08 04:29:54]

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos