LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:47 am

Well, instead of replacing aircraft, how about they start with a company wide training scheme, top to bottom, that reminds senior managers that employees are people too and should be treated not like a utility, but also for the frontline staff (ground staff and flying crews) that the fare paying passengers are their bread and butter, and not a pain in the ass! Customer service isn't exactly a top-priority with UA, and that's a shame, 'cos they have a great route structure and shud be doing a whole lot better....

I agree that the a/c are generally in pretty good shape, although the engines on a T7 I flew recently sounded like a lawn mower! It's the cabins that need attention, brightening up and having new life injected back into them. That and PTV!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
BigOrange
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:29 am

What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Management!
 
Boston92
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 93):



Quoting Superfly (Reply 94):



Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 95):

1. I was talking about domstic aircraft.
2. I was also talking about the p.s. service in which the 757 is the flagship, I just meant that it would be neat if all 757 routes were like that.

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 101):
What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Management!

That is really getting old...could you, or some of the others who have said that, shed some light on what is so wrong with the management of UA? You act like they have negative finds and horrible pax loads, which they don't. It is just an ignorant comment that just makes the poster look, well, ignorant.
 
EI321
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Boston92 (Thread starter):
What Will UA Need To Replace First?

That new livery. It looks crap.
 
Boston92
Topic Author
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 103):
That new livery. It looks crap.

 footinmouth 
 
LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 102):
You act like they have negative finds and horrible pax loads, which they don't.

Maybe not, but for customer service and staff morale ratings, they must be pretty darn low..

Seriously, on the topic thread, the aircraft aren't bad, but the interiors need updating and bringing into the 21st century, although I hope that UA replace the 76's with 78's or 350's, and maybe keep the 76's for domestic or transborder routes.
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 102):
That is really getting old...could you, or some of the others who have said that, shed some light on what is so wrong with the management of UA?

It has been discussed over and over again, the current Management of United Airlines has allowed the airlines morale, and customer services levels to drop to all time lows. That in and of itself cannot be excused. It is not the fault of the employees for poor morale and service. To them managements attitude of not caring is a direct reflection of the Customer Service fallacy that plagues United Airlines.

It really is sad that this management team has turned an otherwise great airline into the laughing stalk of the industry!

Quoting EI321 (Reply 103):
That new livery. It looks crap.

 rotfl   rotfl  Amen!  rotfl   rotfl 

Actually I find the new Flight Attendant uniforms to be worse than the livery in the outside!



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Bring back the United we all loved!

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Boston92
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 106):

Once again, customer service has nothing to do with management...plus...United tends to cater to their elites and treat the others like they don't even care. The customer service of United is a direct respnse to the attitude of the customer.
 
LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 107):
customer service has nothing to do with management

absolute rubbish! who decides on where, when and how to run training courses? who has procedures in place to support staff? who has schemes in place to motivate staff? err...MANAGEMENT!

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 107):
The customer service of United is a direct respnse to the attitude of the customer.

another load of garbage! it is the role of the customer service staff to provide the customer who high level of service no matte how demanding the situation. Sure, management have to accept their portion of the blame, but so do frontline staff. Everyone has to stop finger pointing and agree a common way forward, to improve customer satisfaction and company performance. Period.
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 107):
Once again, customer service has nothing to do with management

Wow, from that comment I think we can all deduce you need to do a lot of reading about United Airlines, the reasons they went into Bankruptcy, and the reasons more and more people are complaining about them!

Can we assume that you think Tilton is a brilliant man?

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 107):
The customer service of United is a direct response to the attitude of the customer.

That has to be the most ridiculous and ill-informed statement I have ever read on Airliners.net!

Of course the above statement by Boston92 came from the same source that stated the following:

"I do think that how the airport looks is a VERY important factor when airline's choose hubs. That is common sense"

"Name some airports in the NE that UA does not serve that other majors do..."

"Plus, this is from your personal experiences, and you might have brought it on yourself, people are not rude/mean for no reason, from my experiences from real life and the show "Airline", it is usually always the pax fault as to why the employees are being rude"

More of the above humor can be found in the below listed topic
RE: Has UA Mastered The "Hub"? (by Boston92 Jul 1 2007 in Civil Aviation)




-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
747fan
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 100):
although the engines on a T7 I flew recently sounded like a lawn mower!

You must've sat in business or first class in front of the engines; that sound is normal and is the fan blades going transonic. I find it to be a lovely noise!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGEGOhkbba
UA 777 (PW4090) taking off from AMS in business class
UA's 777's are some of the older ones in existence but are fine in coach (PTV's) and definitely fine in business and especially first. They don't need replacement and won't be for at least 10-15 years. In terms of its replacement, probably 787-10 or A350? stirthepot 

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Their 767's are also fine (PTV's in coach) and will definitely be here to stay for probably at least another 10 years (along w/ the 744's); the only thing about the 763's is no lie-flat seats in first (almost lie-flat, cradle seats, still quite nice) and they have the old-style overhead bins.

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Some of the 737's are getting long in the tooth and some could be replaced by more Airbuses (surely not 737NG's), but I think they'll hold off until Boeing's 737 replacement. The same probably goes for the 757's. The A319's/A320's are definitely here to stay for quite a while.
 
bmacleod
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 62):
The 747-400 is not going anywhere with United Airlines with the exception of another 10-12 years into the United Airlines fleet. United would be wise to invest in the current 747-400 fleet and bring the aircraft along with their onboard 747-400 product up to post-bankrupt standards.

The 1989 delivery 744s are okay till 2009, then replacement will become a serious issue. They will be 20-years-old then. UA will then have to chose between the 77W and the 747-8...
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 111):
The 1989 delivery 744s are okay till 2009, then replacement will become a serious issue. They will be 20-years-old then. UA will then have to chose between the 77W and the 747-8...

The United Airlines 747-400 will not need to be replaced for a number of years. The lifespan of a 747-400 could easily be 25-30 years. It is a workhorse, and has provided the airline very well. I would expect orders if any to come around 2011-2012, in time for the A350, or 787 slots in 2013-2015. The 747-800 is a viable candidate, but I doubt United Airlines management in its current state of disarray will focus on the 747-800.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
EISHN
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:38 am

Is there any news on UA replacing 10 F seats on its 75'swith a few more Y seats? And also the addition of an extra row of F on the A319s?
St. Flannan/ Fhlanain- She took off to find the footlights, And I took off for the sky
 
Superfly
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 111):
The 1989 delivery 744s are okay till 2009, then replacement will become a serious issue. They will be 20-years-old then. UA will then have to chose between the 77W and the 747-8...

"A serious issue" for a well maintained 20 year old plane that can easily go 30 years?

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 112):
The United Airlines 747-400 will not need to be replaced for a number of years. The lifespan of a 747-400 could easily be 25-30 years. It is a workhorse, and has provided the airline very well. I would expect orders if any to come around 2011-2012, in time for the A350, or 787 slots in 2013-2015. The 747-800 is a viable candidate, but I doubt United Airlines management in its current state of disarray will focus on the 747-800.

 checkmark 

Northwest still has a few 747-200s and plenty of DC-9s. All of this talk of replacing 737s is hyperbole.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Boston92
Topic Author
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 109):
That has to be the most ridiculous and ill-informed statement I have ever read on Airliners.net!

Ridiculous? United has some flaws in the customer service, but for the most part...the passeners ask for it. For example...on a recent trip, a flight was cancelled because of weather...and the pax lined up to start yelling at the agte agents...at the start the agents for nice and calm, but an hour later, they were being as rude as the pax, then the pax think the agent is out of line, and IMO, they are not.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 109):
I do think that how the airport looks is a VERY important factor when airline's choose hubs. That is common sense

If you read the damn thread, I said MANY times that the way the airport looks in an important factor but not nearly as important as some others.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 109):
Name some airports in the NE that UA does not serve that other majors do..."

You never named any, not ONE.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 109):
Plus, this is from your personal experiences, and you might have brought it on yourself, people are not rude/mean for no reason, from my experiences from real life and the show "Airline", it is usually always the pax fault as to why the employees are being rude"

Once again...United gets shit for having poor customer service. United is not far worse than any other legacy, in fact with me, they have had the best customer service. Some examples:

Getting me on an award flight when the flight is not available...

Changing my travel plans for free when the schedule was changed 15 minutes

Changing my flights en route to make it a more direct route...they also had to move my bags from one plane to another

One time an agent walked up to me and gave me a hotel discount worth 100 dollars when the airline did not need to do anything

The list goes on and on...

FLYGUY767, you have no room to talk, aren;t you the one who said that UAX should rid the EMB-120 and "rightfully" upgrade all routes to CRJ...  Yeah sure
 
Boston92
Topic Author
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting EISHN (Reply 113):
Is there any news on UA replacing 10 F seats on its 75'swith a few more Y seats? And also the addition of an extra row of F on the A319s?

I remember someone sayign that in another thread, but don't remember which one...
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 3):
Domestic:

Boeing 737-300

International:

Boeing 767-300



Quoting Zeke (Reply 19):
IMHO, the management....

I can't argue with these statements. The 737's are dreadful and the 767 aren't that much better. But with a fleet age average of what, 18 years, they have another couple of years before they need to order.
One Nation Under God
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 115):
You never named any, not ONE

ISP, PHF, ACK, HVN, BGR, PVC, EWB, MVY, HYA, ELM
PLB, SLK, ERI, RUT, MSS, OGS, AGS, BHB, PQI, RKD
LEB, ITH, JHW, AOO, BFD, JST

Please find 26 destinations in the North-East that UAL and UAX do not serve, that other airlines do..

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 115):
FLYGUY767, you have no room to talk, aren;t you the one who said that UAX should rid the EMB-120 and "rightfully" upgrade all routes to CRJ...

Incorrect, what I said is that there are a number of cities that could be upgraded to CRJ flying as there are a lot of destinations such as SAN that have over redundant schedules with the EMB, there are markets where the airport cannot handle a CRJ, and the catchment area cant warrant anything over an EMB120.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 115):
Ridiculous? United has some flaws in the customer service, but for the most part...the passeners ask for it

Again, denial about United Airlines Customer Service issues.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 115):
If you read the damn thread, I said MANY times that the way the airport looks in an important factor but not nearly as important as some others.

Trying to re-write what has been archived on Airliners.net?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Boston92
Topic Author
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 118):
Trying to re-write what has been archived on Airliners.net?

Go read it again! I never said that how an airport looks was MOST important, I said that stuff like costs, population of city, other airline size, gate space etc...were more important. All I said was that airport appearence was a factor.
 
Boston92
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 118):
ISP, PHF, ACK, HVN, BGR, PVC, EWB, MVY, HYA, ELM
PLB, SLK, ERI, RUT, MSS, OGS, AGS, BHB, PQI, RKD
LEB, ITH, JHW, AOO, BFD, JST

1. Some of those airports have no airlines whatsoever
2. The ones that do are limited to US Express with an occasional DL (for legacies)
3. UA, for some, have airports very much nearby that they serve

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 118):
Again, denial about United Airlines Customer Service issues.

No, you are right that UA needs to work on customer service (if you want to call ot management, they need to work on that as well), I was just expressing that UA has been nothing but great to me personally.

Also, I do not want this little argument going on any longer, we are all friends here!  Smile
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 120):
1. Some of those airports have no airlines whatsoever

All of the airports I listed have airline service with either mainline or commuter aircraft..

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 120):
2. The ones that do are limited to US Express with an occasional DL (for legacies)

It was proven that United Airlines/United Express do not serve any of those listed markets..

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 120):
3. UA, for some, have airports very much nearby that they serve

What?

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 120):
No, you are right that UA needs to work on customer service (if you want to call ot management, they need to work on that as well), I was just expressing that UA has been nothing but great to me personally.

You have throughout this topic stated how the Customer Service problems were the fault of the passengers, and not the airlines..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 115):
Once again...United gets shit for having poor customer service. United is not far worse than any other legacy, in fact with me, they have had the best customer service. Some examples:

While you opened this thread about fleet replacement, I'll step give my .02 as a UAL employee. The problem with customer service at UA is really three-fold.
(1) First, the climate in which the airline is operating has become particularly challenging (as it has for all US airlines). We (the industry) are experiencing the worst on-time performance since the BTS was established to record these statistics in 1995. While passenger travel is up, staffing is down, and air travel has really been reduced to nothing but flying public transportation, in which customers come in with the attitude of hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. As with any airline, its hard to please when your stretched so thin.

(2) Staffing. We need more people, plain and simple. If UA's internal customers (the employees) are happier, then the external customers will be as well.

(3) The tone at the company, is like that of the customers: "hoping for the best, preparing for the worst". We never get good news, only things to improve. UA hasn't created anything new or innovative to improve customer satisfaction since the creation of P.S. The industry is begging for an airline to step up to the plate and offer the same level of service as AF, NH or LH (REASON? Point 1). UA should not follow into the lockstep fashion of the industry (the mentality that if AA can get away with it, so can we). The US is the wealthiest nation in the world. Americans WILL pay for better service/products, if they get their money's worth How else do brands/coroporations like Four Seaons Hotels, Mercedez-Benz (USA division) and Nieman Marcus survive and make good profits? I give the new DL credit where its due for trying to be innovative, but in a lot of ways, their just being dishonest with their customers by putting clever marking spins on their products- (instead of, you can buy meals on-board... there are several options of gourmet food for your selection, for example). UA though, is doing nothing, and they should be doing something (good).
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 122):
The industry is begging for an airline to step up to the plate and offer the same level of service as AF, NH or LH (REASON? Point 1).

I have a feeling when VX gets going they are going to eat away at United Airlines San Francisco traffic, as well as United Airlines Premium Service traffic. Jet Blue has already entered San Francisco, and Southwest has followed suit.Things are not good, and United needs to act fast before they have to play a game of catch up in their own market.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 121):
All of the airports I listed have airline service with either mainline or commuter aircraft..

Oh, sorry, I guess CO serves RUT.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 121):
You have throughout this topic stated how the Customer Service problems were the fault of the passengers, and not the airlines..

Wrong again, my friend, I have said that UA does have a customer service problem, but I have also said (in UA's defense) that a lot of those UA bashing threads that are started almost everyday are not valid (every airline would treat the pax like that), but then some of those threads are true and valid where the pax get 100 bucks travel certificate for having to wait 2 days for a flight. That is ridiculous, but it also is not standard. I have recieved $300 and an upgrade to F for having to wait 2 hours for a later flight. That is a customer service problem that needs fixing...
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 123):
I have a feeling when VX gets going they are going to eat away at United Airlines San Francisco traffic, as well as United Airlines Premium Service traffic. Jet Blue has already entered San Francisco, and Southwest has followed suit.Things are not good, and United needs to act fast before they have to play a game of catch up in their own market.

I, as do most of my coleagues, 100% agree. They need to stop screwing around and take this one seriously. A repeat at DEN is not an option if UA wants to survive. UA needs to work closely with one of its Star Partners, either LH, NH or OZ - or again, even AF, if their partners fear they could become to competative.
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 85):
The 75's are definitely not leaving the fleet any time soon!

I wasn't implying that they were - I, for one, hope they don't but would like to see the "PS" frames maintained to a level that befits the monicker.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 90):
Sure it's not the 777 domestic?



Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 93):
Flagship aircrafts and Flagship routes for all intents and purposes are bragging rights.

When I think "flagship" service, I think of premier route. The flight number that carries the most prestige would naturally be "1" which, in the case of UA, is ORD-HNL on a (drum roll) 777.

Quoting 747fan (Reply 110):
UA's 777's are some of the older ones in existence but are fine in coach (PTV's) and definitely fine in business and especially first. They don't need replacement and won't be for at least 10-15 years

You're referring to the international configured 777s. The domestic models don't have PTVs in Y class.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 111):
UA will then have to chose between the 77W and the 747-8...

Capacity (cargo and pax) will be a major factor in that decision. LAX/SFO-SYD routes beg for a 747.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 115):
Ridiculous? United has some flaws in the customer service, but for the most part...the passeners ask for it

Okay, now that's ridiculous.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 122):
UA should not follow into the lockstep fashion of the industry (the mentality that if AA can get away with it, so can we).

No doubt. I'm optimistic that UA will pull out of its tailspin but it really needs to make a concerted effort to step out and be the one that's going to be the *premier* US carrier. So far, other than adding SQ to the *A (I think they did UA a favor there!), it hasn't done anything other than alienate a number of its FFs.


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 126):
When I think "flagship" service, I think of premier route. The flight number that carries the most prestige would naturally be "1" which, in the case of UA, is ORD-HNL on a (drum roll) 777.

This is not a matter of opinion...The definition of flagship is simply "the largest boat or ship, or aircraft on a passenger line," which for domestic service would be the 777, 747 for intl, and A380 for all passenger aircraft. According to the definition of the word, how can there be a flagship route?

Quoting 777fan (Reply 126):
I, for one, hope they don't but would like to see the "PS" frames maintained to a level that befits the monicker.

How is the p.s. service not up to its moniker?

Quoting 777fan (Reply 126):
Okay, now that's ridiculous.

Your right, it is ridiculous what some pax demand the airline give them for something that wasn't the airlines fault... then they write the corporate office and complain that some of the employees were rude and out of line. I have stated before (like every post) that UA DOES have a customer service problem that needs work, BUT you could also say the same for every legacy.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 124):
Wrong again, my friend, I have said that UA does have a customer service problem, but I have also said (in UA's defense) that a lot of those UA bashing threads that are started almost everyday are not valid (every airline would treat the pax like that), but then some of those threads are true and valid where the pax get 100 bucks travel certificate for having to wait 2 days for a flight.

So you are saying that the bashing threads are started without proof? Take a read, each of the United Airlines bashing threads is followed in the thread by proof of a Customer Service, Management, or Operational problem with United Airlines. Is it the fault of the United Airlines passengers that they were stranded in Montego Bay for 2 days? Is it the fault of the passengers that United Airlines unskilled workers in India to handle basic telephone calls? It is the passengers fault that United Airlines employee morale is at an all time low?

Being given a voucher, and an upgrade is an admittance of fault on the United Airlines side. It is not the passengers fault that United Airlines fleet is spread so thin. It is not the passengers fault that United Airlines has aircraft interiors that are outdated by nearly 20 years. The problems with United Airlines are the fault of mismanagement over years. That mismanagement continues to plague the airline, day in and day out!

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 124):
I have recieved $300 and an upgrade to F for having to wait 2 hours for a later flight.

Hardly... Do we have a crap meter on here?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
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RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 128):
So you are saying that the bashing threads are started without proof? Take a read, each of the United Airlines bashing threads is followed in the thread by proof of a Customer Service, Management, or Operational problem with United Airlines. Is it the fault of the United Airlines passengers that they were stranded in Montego Bay for 2 days? Is it the fault of the passengers that United Airlines unskilled workers in India to handle basic telephone calls? It is the passengers fault that United Airlines employee morale is at an all time low?

Oh, like this one:  Yeah sure
Another New LOW For United (by Mach3 Jul 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 128):
Hardly... Do we have a crap meter on here?

Are you calling me a liar?
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 127):
The definition of flagship is simply "the largest boat or ship, or aircraft on a passenger line," which for domestic service would be the 777, 747 for intl, and A380 for all passenger aircraft.



Quoting Boston92 (Reply 127):
According to the definition of the word, how can there be a flagship route?

I'm not sure where you parlayed "size" with the term "flagship" since the word originated with naval vessels; a "flagship" is the ship that carries a unit's commander.

According to answers.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/flagship):

"In the age of sailing ships, the flagship was typically a first-rate; the aft of one of the three decks would become the admiral's quarters and staff offices. This can be seen today on HMS Victory, the flagship of Admiral Nelson at the Battle of Trafalgar, now at Portsmouth, England."

"Flagship in language
As with so many other naval terms, flagship has crossed over into common parlance, where it means the most important or leading member of a group."

When you click on the link for "first-rate":

"Foremost in quality, rank, or importance." (http://www.answers.com/topic/first-rate)

In this case, a "flagship route" would be the one that carries the most prestige. Seeing as the use of the number "1" implies that something is "the best", you can easily argue that UA considers its ORD-HNL route to be its most prestigious route...or, in this case, its flagship route.  scratchchin 

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 127):
How is the p.s. service not up to its moniker?

My experience with PS (two SFO-JFK R/Ts in C class) proved to be nothing special. The outbound SFO-JFK was a redeye flight that didn't really involve any service at all. The return was okay, with a decent breakfast and average, but certainly not "premium" service. FWIW, the torn bulkhead carpet was on the outbound flight. IMO, the only things that makes the PS flights unique are the seating configuration and consistant availability of C class on a domestic flight. It's neither good nor bad but is a nice option if you have money, miles or upgrades to burn. I suppose you could argue that the offering is "premium" when framed in the context of US domestic flights but I wouldn't pit it against anything available in Asia or parts of Europe.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 127):
that UA DOES have a customer service problem that needs work, BUT you could also say the same for every legacy.

Generalizations such as "the passengers ask for it" begs for a response which I readily provided! Deflecting criticism of UA's CS woes by claiming that every legacy has customer service problems is not going to make the problems go away. From what I've read on this forum and from my limited experience with them, CO seems to do pretty well in that arena. Believe me, I'm a lifelong UA flier that just made PE and really want them to dig themselves out of this hole but the employees (from top to bottom) have to want to do it. I don't sense any urgency and instead sense that the employees are defeated and indifferent. I go out of my way to fly UA and be courteous - I don't raise my voice - and polite to FAs, gate reps, etc. along the way but have encountered my fair of unwarranted hostility. I understand people have "bad days" but that's not my problem. I have bad days, too, but never let those I work with - let alone perfect strangers - know it.


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 130):
Generalizations such as "the passengers ask for it" begs for a response which I readily provided! Deflecting criticism of UA's CS woes by claiming that every legacy has customer service problems is not going to make the problems go away.

Most definitely will not, and I agree.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 130):
I'm not sure where you parlayed "size" with the term "flagship" since the word originated with naval vessels; a "flagship" is the ship that carries a unit's commander.

3rd definition on www.dictionary.com

Quoting 777fan (Reply 130):
My experience with PS (two SFO-JFK R/Ts in C class) proved to be nothing special. The outbound SFO-JFK was a redeye flight that didn't really involve any service at all. The return was okay, with a decent breakfast and average, but certainly not "premium" service. FWIW, the torn bulkhead carpet was on the outbound flight. IMO, the only things that makes the PS flights unique are the seating configuration and consistant availability of C class on a domestic flight. It's neither good nor bad but is a nice option if you have money, miles or upgrades to burn. I suppose you could argue that the offering is "premium" when framed in the context of US domestic flights but I wouldn't pit it against anything available in Asia or parts of Europe.

I haven't flown on PS and you have, so you would know best on this matter. But what I feel is that UA is trying...they have the p.s. and they have the explus. In my mind they are making an attempt, but that attempt means nothing if they do not completely follow through.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 130):
Generalizations such as "the passengers ask for it" begs for a response which I readily provided! Deflecting criticism of UA's CS woes by claiming that every legacy has customer service problems is not going to make the problems go away. From what I've read on this forum and from my limited experience with them, CO seems to do pretty well in that arena. Believe me, I'm a lifelong UA flier that just made PE and really want them to dig themselves out of this hole but the employees (from top to bottom) have to want to do it. I don't sense any urgency and instead sense that the employees are defeated and indifferent. I go out of my way to fly UA and be courteous - I don't raise my voice - and polite to FAs, gate reps, etc. along the way but have encountered my fair of unwarranted hostility. I understand people have "bad days" but that's not my problem. I have bad days, too, but never let those I work with - let alone perfect strangers - know it.

I agree 110% with everything you have said. I also wish they would get there act together, and be top on the list, instead of middle to low.
 
ual777
Posts: 1641
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 130):
I suppose you could argue that the offering is "premium" when framed in the context of US domestic flights

Which is exactly what it is! Comparing it to Singapore or anyone else is not valid at all.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 107):
Once again, customer service has nothing to do with management...plus...United tends to cater to their elites and treat the others like they don't even care.

In my experience, DL caters to their elites and treats the others like they don't even care. I like UA for the very reason that they DON'T do that, at least not nearly to the same extent.

And yes, customer service has a lot to do with management.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 115):
United has some flaws in the customer service, but for the most part...the passeners ask for it. For example...on a recent trip, a flight was cancelled because of weather...and the pax lined up to start yelling at the agte agents...at the start the agents for nice and calm, but an hour later, they were being as rude as the pax, then the pax think the agent is out of line, and IMO, they are not.

I'd agree that the agent isn't out of line, but you can't make a blanket statment of "the customers are asking for it" and base it on a stereotypically obnoxious passenger on a bad day. Yes, in that case, the customers aren't helping their own cause. But that's not always the case.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Philly65
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:15 pm

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:24 pm

Yes management...LOL! LOL! With 42 Airbus' on the books, why no mention of United going with the 350xwb? How plausible is that? Seems to me Airbus has the upper hand regardless if 90%+ of employees prefer Boeing. Although I think UAL is a natural for the 787.
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting Philly65 (Reply 134):

Welcome to a.net!!

I think the only reason why UA won't order the 350 is because they don't ever operate Airbus widebodies, at least to my knowledge. I really would not mind the 350 though...but widebodies, I hope, will come after a NB order which should come by 2012.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 135):
I think the only reason why UA won't order the 350 is because they don't ever operate Airbus widebodies, at least to my knowledge.

They haven't had much opportunity to. The only chance they really had was to replace their DC-10s with A340s or A330s instead of 777s. The 777 is obviously the better plane in that contest. I've never heard of a no-Airbus-widebody policy at UA.

If the 350 fits UA better than the 787, I doubt they would forgo it just because of the manufacturer.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 129):
Oh, like this one:

Another New LOW For United (by Mach3 Jul 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

That thread had very, very valid points about the current state of dismay at United Airlines. There is nothing in the above mentioned topic that was not backed up in one form or another. I will continue my assertion that the Call Centers in India were a poorly planned decision by United Airlines. I will also continue my assertion that United Airlines current management is the reason the airline has become so poorly regarded by both its employees and its passengers..

There is an old saying that fits United Airlines perfectly..

"You can put perfume on a pig, but a pig will be a pig"

In other words you can window dress the problems at United Airlines, but in the end United Airlines will be United Airlines one problem will surface, as soon as another one is dealt with. That has been the track record for United Airlines over the past 10 years, if not longer.



-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
DC8FanJet
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:25 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:38 am

Nice to see that "FlyGuy767" is at least temporarily off A-net. He is, to say the least, becoming a pain.

Obviously not a United fan, but this really isn't the forum for the type of nonsense he continues to write.
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:44 am

Can we give a big AMEN to kahala...ooops I mean lhr...going on vacation
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2352
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 138):
Obviously not a United fan, but this really isn't the forum for the type of nonsense he continues to write.

He has nothing but bad words to say about UA but flies them all the time domestically........work that out!!
 
LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 110):
You must've sat in business or first class in front of the engines

Correct! Left hand window, and the noise was, err, disconcerting....

UA's management and staff both have to share the blame for poor customer service. End of story. Customers are a pain quite often, but mostly once the airlines have screwed up (but not always). It is the airlines who should be doing what is fair and what is right to correct the problem. Now, let's put our toys back and be nice to each other.

I still think that UA's fleet, well, interiors anyway, are in need of freshening up and bringing up to quality of more modern rivals. Yeah, it would be good to see some new types on the fleet, but it's not going to happen for quite some time, so put your cameras away for now!

And I also agree that UA better get's it's domestic and international act together, because they are about to get bitch-slapped by VS USA, and more besides! Not good, 'cos I need to use my miles up before they go under!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
bartond
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:59 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 24):
The Call Center in India would be a good start.

I was waiting for someone to mention this. The single worst part about United is dealing with its customer service agents in India or wherever they are. They simply do not know how to think beyond their 5-answer sheet that is in front of them. There is no next-step, or "let me try something for you...", it is either "I can help you" or "I cannot help you at this time." Annoying.
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting Bartond (Reply 142):
I was waiting for someone to mention this. The single worst part about United is dealing with its customer service agents in India or wherever they are. They simply do not know how to think beyond their 5-answer sheet that is in front of them. There is no next-step, or "let me try something for you...", it is either "I can help you" or "I cannot help you at this time." Annoying.

From my experience, it takes two supervisors to get someone who is able to say "let me try something for you". When you first ask for a supervisor...they come on, and it is still someone from India (which would NOT be a problem if they were properly trained) who does not know how to do things correctly. Then, once you ask for the supervisor's supervisor (which I have done twice), you get someone who is obviously American who speaks perfect english who can pretty much do anything for you.
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting Cch362 (Reply 10):
How about the CEO?

How about most of their management, then replace the A319/320 with newer 737s.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3658
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:17 am

Some of their frail and aged cabin crew?!

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2525
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 89):
While someone said the 737NG had no chance at United, That may very well not be the case depending on how nice of a deal Boeing can swing for them compared to Airbus. I suspect though that little to nothing will happen at United in this size class till the 737RS is announced so they can either pick up A32x on fire sale or get 737RS depending on which works better.

UA mgmt has stated there will be no new planes -- and I believe that.

I think there is zero chance of the 737NG or any similar aircraft. As the current 737's and A319/320's are retired, expect their routes to be replaced with UAX carriers flying CRJ's and ERJ's. If UA survives, there might be a 787 order 4-6 years down the road to supplement 747's and replace some early 777's.
 
Philly65
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:15 pm

RE: What Will UA Need To Replace First?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:51 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 146):
UA mgmt has stated there will be no new planes -- and I believe that.

I think there is zero chance of the 737NG or any similar aircraft. As the current 737's and A319/320's are retired, expect their routes to be replaced with UAX carriers flying CRJ's and ERJ's. If UA survives, there might be a 787 order 4-6 years down the road to supplement 747's and replace some early 777's

I agree you won't see any one for one fleet replacement for the foreseeable future, but one of the earlier posts from UA (EYE ON UA) stated they may be in the market for incremental fleet growth for international expansion. I think the B777 is the obvious choice especially since the 787 is sold out until 2015 (Go LAN!!). I can't see UAL ordering the A350XWB and introducing additional costs and complexity with another fleet type. Although I am not a Tilton fan, I think he is running (or trying to run) the business responsibly by limiting capital expenditures until UAL builds their cash reserves and pays down debt. I also agree there is zero chance you will see the 737NG; United has 42 A320s on the books, which they should exercise soon to help reduce their high operating costs with the 737 Classics.

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