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BBJII
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:22 pm

Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:10 am

A few years ago Luxair choose to "streamline" it's fleet.

The choices were made very simply.

Boeing 737-700's and Embraer 145's.

The Fokker 50's and the current 737-5000 were to phased out.
Then LG noticed a problem. The E145 was to big on some routes (Saarbrucken & London CIty).
So it was decided to purchase 2 E135 for these routes.

Now LG have purchased the Dash 8-Q400:
the current fleet is a mix of 737 types, E145 & E135 and now the Q400.

http://www.luxair.lu/cms/luxair.php?page&p=EN,2073,,,, link to Luxair Fleet Page

The Q400 has the ability, but not the comfort to operate the longer LG routes,
but it may be too large to operate some E145 routes...

1 - Are LG going back to a tri-manufactured fleet?
2 - Are the 737's being streamlined to the 737-700?
3 - Are the E-Jet's going?


Anyone?




 confused   confused 

At the same time: LG will withdraw LHR services later this year, with the Q400 taking over the 4 daily LCY flights.
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:36 am

Luxair have not yet found the type of operation that fits the small countries needs.
With airports like Hahn,Brussels and Cologne not too far away,Luxemburg has a hard time to justify certain types of aircraft.With just over 450,000 population, the country barely matches the size of a medium-size city.
Probabely a mix of Embraer 145 and 170's would be just perfect...
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johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
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RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting BBJII (Thread starter):
Then LG noticed a problem. The E145 was to big on some routes (Saarbrucken & London CIty).
So it was decided to purchase 2 E135 for these routes.

the E145 is apparently not considered too large for those destinations. it always operates the SCN and MUC flights. concerning LCY, the aircraft is even too small. that's why LG chose the Dash 8-400. some times, LG operated two E135 or E145 within a few hours in order to provide sufficient capacity. now with a Dash 8-400, they only need one flight at a given time.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Probabely a mix of Embraer 145 and 170's would be just perfect...

i always thought the Embraer 190/195 would be a nice plane for LG. the 737 is too big except for its leisure division.
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flytuitravel
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting BBJII (Thread starter):
LG will withdraw LHR services later this year

What is the reason for this? No demand?


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
pogo
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:58 am

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 3):
Quoting BBJII (Thread starter):
LG will withdraw LHR services later this year

What is the reason for this? No demand?

I work for AFSL who handle LG at LHR and most flights seem to have about the same sort of loads, average 30-40 pax per flight mainly business pax from the city, as well as between 100-300kg mail on each flight as well as cargo sometimes.

BBJII , not that I doubt you but where did you here about LG withdrawing LHR, I have not heard anything (although I have been off work for ten days), i'll try and find out when I go back Tuesday.

I thought that LG were bringing in the Q400 to LHR, i've seen a safety manual turn up at work for this type.
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planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:41 am

What LG 'need' are :

-2 737-700ER's for non stop routes to a North American city (JFK/IAD) and for one non stop to an Asian city (DXB)
-1 737-700 for lesiure routes to North Africa and the Canaries.
-3 E170's/Q400's for routes that feed into hubs like FRA, FCO and LON among others

Whilst there is traffic for places like DUB, MAN, CPH, MAD etc, I think LG should focus on the above and get that profitable. Is it too big of an airline for the country it represents?

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 3):
LG will withdraw LHR services later this year

Do any other airlines fly to LUX from LHR? BA? Maybe BMI or BMI Regional could come in?
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:12 am

When will the Q400's enter service on the LUX-LCY route?
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BCALBOY
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:33 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 5):
Do any other airlines fly to LUX from LHR? BA? Maybe BMI or BMI Regional could come in?

BA operate 2 daily LGW/LUX services ,moving the route from LHR quite a few years ago.

Can-t see BMI using valuable LHR slots for LUX especially given their Natl ambitions.

The biggest LON terminus for LUX services is now LCY with both LG and VLM offering requency ; the route is very business orientated and is well suited to LCY , so I can see why LG would want to consolidate their.

I think LH is a significant shareholder in LG nad is probably keen to route connecting traffic over FRA rather than LHR.

In addition with the forthcoming Open Skies a lot of carriers are scrambling to secure slots at LHR.
This is an opportunity for LG to get a nice windfall and with the guidance of LH may allow the German carrier to assit
some of its North American Star Alliance partners !

So seems like quite a few reasons for LG to take this action.

[Edited 2007-07-09 08:36:40]
 
vfw614
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 2):
the E145 is apparently not considered too large for those destinations. it always operates the SCN and MUC flights. concerning LCY, the aircraft is even too small. that's why LG chose the Dash 8-400. some times, LG operated two E135 or E145 within a few hours in order to provide sufficient capacity. now with a Dash 8-400, they only need one flight at a given time.

The E135 in the first place were bought to have a competitive edge over VLM Airlines when Luxair moved their STN flights to LCY where VLM was the incumbent (and LG used to code-share). Both airlines used the Fokker 50, so when Luxair ended the code-share, they thought a jet might have some appeal to lure pax away from VLM. The only suitable jet was the E135 as the E145 cannot operate into LCY. They bought two because they needed a spare for LCY, so the second was allocated to some of the thinner E145 routes. Needless to say that this move did not drive VLM off the LUX route and left Luxair with a rather uneconomical aircraft. Hence the decision to replace it with Q400s for LCY.

As for the MUC route, it will be interesting to see if it survives as Air Berlin will start SCN-MUC soon. Common understanding in the past was that Luxair needed the SCN tag-on to make route viable. As a lot of SCN pax will probably opt for the less expensive AB alternative, LG might run into difficulties - particularly with a rather large aircraft.



Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 7):
I think LH is a significant shareholder in LG nad is probably keen to route connecting traffic over FRA rather than LHR.

I think we are talking about a small one-digit number, so I would not call it significant.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 5):
What LG 'need' are :

-2 737-700ER's for non stop routes to a North American city (JFK/IAD) and for one non stop to an Asian city (DXB)
-1 737-700 for lesiure routes to North Africa and the Canaries.
-3 E170's/Q400's for routes that feed into hubs like FRA, FCO and LON among others

Isn't the concept now that the remaining Boeings will be charter-only and the Q400 do all the scheduled flying?
 
BCALBOY
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 8):
think we are talking about a small one-digit number, so I would not call it significant.

Its actually 13% , maybe not that significant ?
 
vfw614
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:59 pm

Agreed  Smile Let's settle for "not that significant".

I was wondering if Lufthansa might be interested to start operating to LUX code-sharing with Luxair if the Luxair Q400 turns out to be too big for the MUC route in the future. Lufthansa has a choice of smaller fifty seater aircraft (AT4, DH3, CR2).
 
BBJII
Topic Author
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:22 pm

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 6):
When will the Q400's enter service on the LUX-LCY route?

Early September according to LG website.

Quoting Pogo (Reply 4):
BBJII , not that I doubt you but where did you here about LG withdrawing LHR, I have not heard anything (although I have been off work for ten days), i'll try and find out when I go back Tuesday.

I thought that LG were bringing in the Q400 to LHR, i've seen a safety manual turn up at work for this type.



Quoting Pogo (Reply 4):
BBJII , not that I doubt you but where did you here about LG withdrawing LHR, I have not heard anything (although I have been off work for ten days), i'll try and find out when I go back Tuesday.

I thought that LG were bringing in the Q400 to LHR, i've seen a safety manual turn up at work for this type.

I work at LHR T2 too: at "circusair". Hello  wave 

I have contact's at LCY - cannot name them as there LCY airport management - but they've told me.

Whilst LHR is good from Luxair, Biz class has better revenue at LCY, and LCY makes more money than LHR.

LHR cost's are said to high - thats why LG dropped AZ handling, AF were cheaper, and LG are looking to cut costs.
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
dj1986
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:25 pm

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:39 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 10):
I was wondering if Lufthansa might be interested to start operating to LUX code-sharing with Luxair if the Luxair Q400 turns out to be too big for the MUC route in the future. Lufthansa has a choice of smaller fifty seater aircraft (AT4, DH3, CR2).

I'm pretty sure that MUC will not see the Q400 reguarly during the week. Maybe some Sunday evening flights with high loads were the ERJ-145 was overbooked quite a few times this year. But mainly the 3xQ400 are to operate to CDG,FRA and LCY.

I always thought that LG at some point would take over LX flights to ZRH and codeshare with LX. Swiss European is short on Avro Jet's and with parent company LH also only codesharing to LUX (with LG) I thought that LG would be "asked" to operate that route. It also would free up the Avro Jet's for more important European routes.
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sibille
Posts: 252
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RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:11 pm

I had a flight with Luxair on an Emb-145 to Paris last Saturday (7th July). The flight was full.
According to their inflight magazine, their first Dash-8-400 operates FRA flights. The second one will arrive this month and will operate CDG flights.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Dj1986 (Reply 12):
Swiss European is short on Avro Jet's

i doubt they are short of Avro Jet's. they are getting rid of their RJ 85s, they wouldn't do that, if they considered their fleet too small.
the growing Airbus narrowbody fleet will make up for the loss of the above mentioned Avros.
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BestWestern
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 7):
BA operate 2 daily LGW/LUX services ,moving the route from LHR quite a few years ago.

Didnt CityFlyer express operate that route?



The 2006 plans were

"Under a revised fleet plan the three 737-700s will be transferred to, and used exclusively by, the tour operator division. The carrier is also deciding whether to retain one of its 737-500s to provide additional tour capacity during peak seasons. The other 737-500 will be sold.

Luxair will reduce its mainline fleet to nine aircraft by disposing of its two ERJ-135s and a pair of ERJ-145s, leaving it with six ERJ-145s and the three Q400s by winter 2007-08."


This summers plans were

Copenhagen service axed.

Paris, Porto and Vienna will each lose a frequency.

Luxair Airline executive VP Martin Isler says: “With the summer flight schedule 2007, the amendments are now accomplished and the network is now adapted to the airline’s new fleet which will be composed of nine aircraft, i.e. three Bombardier Q400s and six Embraer ERJ-145s.”
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dj1986
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:25 pm

RE: Luxair Fleet Future?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 14):
i doubt they are short of Avro Jet's. they are getting rid of their RJ 85s, they wouldn't do that, if they considered their fleet too small.
the growing Airbus narrowbody fleet will make up for the loss of the above mentioned Avros.

I'm not sure but I thought that it was mentioned somewhere that the LX RJ-85 are just too expensive to operate with 2+3 seating and that this was the main reason to sell them. But they sure are short of some aircrafts (for the european market) otherwise they wouldn't wetlease an BAe 146-300 and B737-500 (C9).
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