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EDICHC
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 48):
but don;t hold your breath that it was anything other than racism and hysteria, which by the way, does nothing to ferret out true terrorists.

Hysteria...vaguely possible, given recent events but still unlikely, racism definitely not. Being a follower of the Islamic faith does not constitute your racial origin. You can be a follower of Islam whether you are caucasian, afro-carribean or whatever.

Racism is defined as predjucial behaviour directed to those of a different ethnic origin. Islam is a religious faith not a racial group.

But really do all of you on this thread that have decided to flame the Captain in question really believe in ths straight forward series of events...

PASSENGER, "excuse me miss, can I go into your galley to pray"
FLIGHT ATTENDANT "NO SIR" (immediately thinks to herself 'oh my god! he's dark skinned and wants to pray kneeling on a mat - he must be a terrorist, I'd better tell the Captain)
CAPTAIN (to the passenger) "sir i don't like your behaviour please leave the aircraft"

That just is not going to happen. Come back to reality here.
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starguy
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:21 am

Well until more of the story comes to light, this is all we have to go on.
 
EDICHC
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 49):
but the fact a prima facie he was removed from the plane just for a request of wanting to pray before the flight....that is all we know so far,

But you don't know that! All you have is a newspaper report quoting an unidentified and unreliable source.
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jacobin777
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 52):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 49):
but the fact a prima facie he was removed from the plane just for a request of wanting to pray before the flight....that is all we know so far,

But you don't know that! All you have is a newspaper report quoting an unidentified and unreliable source.

..and that's the only source....
"Up the Irons!"
 
EDICHC
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 53):
..and that's the only source....

Incorrect..again see how facts can appear to be altered by omission.

It is the only source available AT THIS TIME. And again I stress an unreliable source so how can that be accepted as fact?
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jacobin777
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 54):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 53):
..and that's the only source....

Incorrect..again see how facts can appear to be altered by omission.

It is the only source available AT THIS TIME.

....isn't that what I said? ...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 49):
this is what has been reported and what we are going by..if the facts change certainly our discussions should reflect that...



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 54):
And again I stress an unreliable source so how can that be accepted as fact?

....we can change "facts" with "what is being reported"..but the story/situation hasn't changed one bit... no 
"Up the Irons!"
 
Scorpio
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 54):
It is the only source available AT THIS TIME.

And yet, here you are immediately dismissing it out of hand, and replacing it with your own story of what reallyhappened, a story backed up by absolutely nothing.

Why should we believe your 'version' of the story, made up from behind a keyboard, any more than that in the paper?

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 50):
PASSENGER, "excuse me miss, can I go into your galley to pray"
FLIGHT ATTENDANT "NO SIR" (immediately thinks to herself 'oh my god! he's dark skinned and wants to pray kneeling on a mat - he must be a terrorist, I'd better tell the Captain)
CAPTAIN (to the passenger) "sir i don't like your behaviour please leave the aircraft"

That just is not going to happen. Come back to reality here.

I think you are the one that needs to 'come back to reality. In this day and age, I can most certainly see this happening. BTW, from what we have read, the FA didn't even say no, she just asked the captain.

You've been defending this action here for a while now based on your assumption that the story is wrong, and that things didn't go as written in the article. All the while, you dismiss anyone who does not agree with you. What I would like to know is this: IF what the article says is true, and he was kicked off the flight simply because he asked permission to pray in the galley, would you STILL agree with the captain's decision?
 
EDICHC
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:03 am

But the limited 'facts' you keep referring to are nothing of the sort. They are unsubstantiated rumour and will remain so until this source is identified and deemed to be credible. And yet in the course of this thread the captain has been (not by you I accept Jacobin777) as hysterical and racist.

As I pointed out earlier thomsonfly refused to make further comment on legal grounds. I have no doubt that this will be due to the fact that they will be contemplating legal action against the newspaper concerned, once they have completed their investigation. As a carrier they have no fear of legal repercussions from the passenger as it was the Captain's personal decision and professional judgement to off-load him, not the airline's.
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iwok
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 7):
If I want to pray on planes, I usually pray while seated down. We dont have to knell down if we can't do that... Praying is obligatory 5 times a day for all Muslims. But, the way the man shouldve prayed was sitting down and not making a scene in front of people. Or at least pray at home.

When Muslims travel, Islam allows them to shortren their praying and combine 2 prayings in to one shorterned one, so that the person does not have to pray as often. This is one of the blessings of Islam.

Well said my friend. I don't know why people need to go for most outwardly display; and this applied to people of all religious backgrounds. What is wrong with praying in a more quiet fashion?

Sometimes I think the people who make the most noise about things like this are really covering up on something else.

iwok
 
Elite
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:49 am

I agree that kicking him off the flight was slightly overreacting, but people need to realize that your religious belief can't be above the normal rules.
 
Boeingluvr
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:07 am

Another thing to consider as well. He could have been making some kind of statement that due to freedom or religion he should be allowed to pray anywhere and it should be accepted. Some people like to push things to see how far they can get.
 
ncelhr
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 7):
When Muslims travel, Islam allows them to shortren their praying and combine 2 prayings in to one shorterned one, so that the person does not have to pray as often. This is one of the blessings of Islam.

This is the only *confirmed* fact I have seen in this discussion. Confirmed because muslim friends have told me exactly the same thing in the past. In fact, one of my friends prayed whilst sitting next to me on a Virgin Atlantic Flight LHR-JFK.
He also explained to me that if travel takes place during the month of Ramadan, when a muslim has to fast from dawn 'til dusk, he is excused from fasting and can eat.

If the passenger insisted on doing something that would interfere with the safety of the plane, the Captain, sole "ruler" on board, has the right to kick him off.

Putting 1 & 1 together to make 2 and starting on conspiray theories, based on info from, ahem, the Daily Star (how unreliable is that source of infomation!), is a non event and plays in the hands of agitators willing to manipulate the gullible masses...
 
TuRbUleNc3
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 21):
If this is the case, then the Captain and the airline should be willing and prepared to suffer the legal consequences for negligence, racism, and victimisation

Yeah thats probably what will happen next  Yeah sure
 
6yjjk
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 7):
When Muslims travel, Islam allows them to shortren their praying and combine 2 prayings in to one shorterned one, so that the person does not have to pray as often. This is one of the blessings of Islam.

The man in question would have been well advised to take this option, it's true.

But, given that he didn't, maybe he simply thought it best to pray in private, to avoid making his fellow passengers nervous by praying in his seat? I know far too many people would feel uneasy enough simply having him on their flight in the first place. Their reaction to "OMG Muslim on my plane praying!" might well have been a riot. And nothing in the article says how the request was made - it could've been a discreet request out of earshot of the other passengers during boarding.

It could well be that this man's been thrown off a plane for - naivete, yes - but also for showing consideration to his fellow human beings.
 
Rivet42
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:40 am

Interesting - this 'story' hasn't been reported anywhere else, so the fact that it is only in this particular paper, not exactly a reputable news source, makes me wonder how much of it is actually true, or indeed, what the 'true' story really is.

Would be nice to read a 'reliable' account of this incident, before commenting further...
I travel, therefore I am.
 
kanebear
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 55):
....we can change "facts" with "what is being reported"..but the story/situation hasn't changed one bit...

...and you still know nothing more about it than anyone else does. As reported does not mean complete and truthful. You stated earlier that I was going off assumptions. I fail to see how as I incorporated both sides of the either or equation. Read more carefully.

Here, especially, reporters are lambasted for getting it wrong. Why, suddenly, do we now hold what is reported as a gold standard? For all we know, the 'source' may be a friend of a friend that overheard someone talking on their mobile, a post on a messageboard, etc. Reporters are rather famous for doing that.

Again, unless "the source" is named or at least somewhat described, it's worthless. We (this includes you) don't know what happened. Pending legal action, better reporting with more sources, and/or a first person account, we never will. It speaks volumes, IMO, that this hasn't been picked up anywhere else at all.

[Edited 2007-07-09 22:44:38]
 
jacobin777
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 65):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 55):
....we can change "facts" with "what is being reported"..but the story/situation hasn't changed one bit...

...and you still know nothing more about it than anyone else does.

..thus I made no assumptions because of that.....I've taken the article a prima facie....

...now if the "source" is wrong, questionable, not of worthy standards, then that is a separate issue.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
khelmDTW
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 7):
When Muslims travel, Islam allows them to shortren their praying and combine 2 prayings in to one shorterned one, so that the person does not have to pray as often.

I'm sorry, but I thought you also had to align yourselves with Mecca. (I've heard its called a Qibla, (very sorry if I spelled that wrong)) How would you do that in an airplane, or would you just no do it at all?

Thank you for helping deepen my understanding of the Muslim faith.

Kevin
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration"
 
zvezda
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:24 am

People have a right to pray. People also have a right to masturbate. Neither right applies in the public areas of an airliner -- particularly not the galley. This should have been obvious to the passenger.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 68):
People have a right to pray. People also have a right to masturbate. Neither right applies in the public areas of an airliner -- particularly not the galley. This should have been obvious to the passenger.

.....masturbating usually involves bodily fluids which isn't hygienic so its not really an "apples-to-apples" comparison..if the F/A's didn't want that person to pray there, that is fine, they have every right to deny him from doing that...what I question is how things were handled (according to the story)
"Up the Irons!"
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:10 am

religious insanity is the number one problem facing the world. i applaud the workers who decided to call this guy out and kick him out.

to think that god will smite you if you don't pray 5 times every day is just plain crazy.

and i don't want this to sound racist... there are plenty of crazy "traditions" in christianity, judeism, etc.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
I still think he was trying to make a statement.



Quoting StarGuy (Reply 31):
as an excuse for persecuting all muslims, is basically suggesting that all young muslim men are terrorists.

Unfortunately, I'm forced to agree with both these statements, as the feelings such as these are over on this side of the pond as well. It happened on a Skywest (OO) flight just last night (although how would you kneel with ANY room on either side of the CRJ's aisle?).
 
airplanenut
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:44 pm

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 70):
religious insanity is the number one problem facing the world. i applaud the workers who decided to call this guy out and kick him out.

I wouldn't call praying religious insanity. Was it the best time to ask, probably not, but then again, it seems that all he did was ask. From what has been written here, it seems as though a Muslim can pray while seated. So yes, it probably would have been a good idea to do so. That said, again, all that is said is that he asked.

My rabbi allows one to pray while seated on an airplane, even for prayers that usually require you to stand. Yes, a galley would be nice--just look at an El Al flight when the aircraft hits sunrise. Every galley is full because people can stand and brace themselves when they hit a bump. My rabbi has also said that, for some things, ask the crew if it's ok to do. Namely, there's a requirement to place a leather box on your arm and wrap it with a strap all the way down your arm, and place another on your head. Obviously, I wouldn't just do this on a flight, but I don't think I should be kicked off for harmlessly explaining the significance and asking for permission. If the F/A says no, then I do it later (and less preferably) when we land. If the F/A says yes, then wonderful.

So yes, we need more facts. But, I don't think asking should be grounds to be kicked off a flight.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 70):
to think that god will smite you if you don't pray 5 times every day is just plain crazy.

Some would say the exact opposite. Religion is about believing. Many people derive an immense benefit from such a belief. That you don't believe is no excuse to ridicule those who do.
Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 12):
Come on, this guy could have been on his first flight ever - how could we know? And at least he asked before just wandering off to the galley. I would think, that the cabin personnel would have been exactly the right person to contact, and it would have just been polite for the FA to explain that the galley is not for passengers and that unfortunately they couldn't arrange a quiet place for the man.

Agreed. Based on what has been reported, it might have been extreme to boot the man from the flight. There is a lot of fear in the aviation world of Islam.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 70):
and i don't want this to sound racist... there are plenty of crazy "traditions" in christianity, judeism, etc.

Every religion sounds crazy to those who arent apart of it. Im a Christian myself, but if I was to explain to someone who isnt that I believe the son of God was born to a Virgin and the came back from the dead, why would the believe me? To them it would sound nuts. Religion isnt about what is rational or scientific, but its about faith.

Quoting Airplanenut (Reply 72):
I wouldn't call praying religious insanity.

Neither would I. I flew today from YVR-LAX and just like before every flight I prayed. It sure didnt seem nuts.

Quoting Airplanenut (Reply 72):
So yes, we need more facts. But, I don't think asking should be grounds to be kicked off a flight.

I dont think so either. Praying on airplanes is ok. FlyingAY said it best, the FA should have explained that there was no place availible for the man to pray in that manner. Given whats been reported, I would call the Captins actions extreme. The aviation world is afriad of Islam to a level thats a bit unhealthy. Not all Muslims (or anyone who prays) are suspicious or are threats. Praying helps alot of people who are uncomfortable with flying. And we all have the right to do it if we wish. This man should have just been told to do it in his seat, not kicked off the flight.
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CupraIbiza
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:16 pm

Ridiculous. Why didnt the cabin crew just say "no you can't". What an over reaction to boot him off the plane. This news story is a victory for the extremists. This is what they want. Cabin crew should simply have said no. Firmly and politely. Then it wouldnt have made the news.
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F9Animal
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 74):
Ridiculous. Why didnt the cabin crew just say "no you can't". What an over reaction to boot him off the plane. This news story is a victory for the extremists. This is what they want. Cabin crew should simply have said no. Firmly and politely. Then it wouldnt have made the news.

I agree, the cabin crew could have refused the request. But at the same time, we are only getting tidbits of information about this incident. The media article stated, "According to our source" leaves a big question mark. Who is the source, and was the source a viable source of information to the entire issue? We really don't know if the man put up a scene, or even what was said. Most importantly, the ousted traveler has not come forward according to the story. It sounds like second hand information, and without a victim, how can we judge the airline or the passenger? Maybe the problem lies with people these days, as we are all so quick to judge people.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:04 pm

I love the reaction that this is getting from the usual suspects on A-Net. Complete overreaction. The man was polite enough to ask - a polite refusal would have sufficed - not a call to offload the pax. If he was trying to make a statement, I would venture to guess he would not bother to ask permission.

-A.

PS: Poor chap. Perhaps he was more nervous that his fellow passengers would have flipped if he started praying on his seat because of the general hysteria and wanted to be alone. Sad thing really.
Live, and let live.
 
ual757
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:07 pm

Muslims don't have to pray when they travel...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Ual757 (Reply 77):
Muslims don't have to pray when they travel...

Nobody has to, but lots of people do. Some people are nervous flyers and praying (to whatever God) can ease that for some people. A muslim praying on a plane is the same as anyone else (Christain, Jew, or whatever).

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 76):
The man was polite enough to ask - a polite refusal would have sufficed - not a call to offload the pax. If he was trying to make a statement, I would venture to guess he would not bother to ask permission.

Definately. Given the information we have, I dont think someone trying to make a statement is going to ask permission. All they really had to do was say no. Given the articles info, I belive kicking him off the plane was too harsh and a bit extreme.
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dallasnewark
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 49):
I've had 2nd searches before, and I really don't have a problem with it at all..in fact, a few years ago, there was a "secondary line" with 12 people..and every single one of those 12 people were Asians (Indians/Pakistanis), yet I never complained...

Gee, I wonder why is this the case. You don't see anyone else blowing themselves into pieces but the residents of the Middle East.

Let me ask you this, percentage-wise how often do you get pulled for 2nd searaches?
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dallasnewark
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 68):
People have a right to pray. People also have a right to masturbate. Neither right applies in the public areas of an airliner -- particularly not the galley. This should have been obvious to the passenger.

Come Zvezda, what are you suggesting, some dude asking if he can whack of in the galley ?  Smile

I'm sure the reaction of the crew would be interesting
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emrecan
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:07 pm

Both sides are wrong. First of all it is very stupid for that muslim to ask permission to pray. Because in the airplane you can pray while you are sitting. You don't do extra moves. This is the only way you can pray in an airplane and it is ok for the Islam religion. I don't understand why some people are insisting on to pray like they are praying at their homes.

On the other hand it is something very stupid to see Muslims as terrorists.
 
N1120A
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:13 pm

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 1):
Sounds like they over reacted, but at the same time, what the heck? "Hold on, can everyone just wait and stop the whole boarding/ pushback/takeoff thing while I pray?" I don't think so, mate.

It looks to me like you didn't really read the article. It said that he merely asked if he could go and pray, not that he insisted upon it. Two entirely different things.

Then again, here is something shocking, that would not be allowed in the US.

Quote:

Northumbria Police officers were waiting for the man in the departure lounge and searched him under terrorism laws.

No warrant, no probable cause. Another reason Britain needs a written constitution.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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autothrust
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:07 pm

Well i think the acted correct. I have nothing against Muslims, but i often saw they just stop everything when they want to pray.

For example we had a Muslim which stopped working when he wanted to pray even production was running at full speed.
C,mon he could have done this in the pauses. So he got fired, sad but the production is more important.

The planes and schedules are IMO more important then one person and i hate to see when all are boarded that still some people are coming late and we had to wait because them.
Flown on: DC-9, MD-80, Fokker 100, Bae 146 Avro, Boeing 737-300, 737-400, 747-200, 747-300,747-400, 787-9, Airbus A310, A319, A320, A321, A330-200,A330-300, A340-313, A380, Bombardier CSeries 100/300, CRJ700ER/CRJ900, Embraer 190.
 
baroque
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:31 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 7):
When Muslims travel, Islam allows them to shortren their praying and combine 2 prayings in to one shorterned one, so that the person does not have to pray as often. This is one of the blessings of Islam.

All true, but I get the feeling that he wanted a special prayer because he was worried about take-off. I have met this in Indonesia where my neighbour will remark as the plane taxis that they are now going to pray - which they do as you suggest should be done.

It does however, raise in me the question, what do you know that I should know. But then praying in Indonesia is a normal part of daily life, not exactly as Newcastle used to be! It used to be limited to Sat afternoons near St James'.
 
Fly2CHC
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:14 pm

It's sad that most of the comments made in this post are by people who don't seem to know anything about Islam.

Quoting Ual757 (Reply 77):
Muslims don't have to pray when they travel...

Yes...Muslims do need to pray when travelling, however prayers can be cut down from the obligatory five to three (with the two afternoon and two evening prayers combined).

If one asks to go to the toilet before take off and is refused, are they kicked off the plane?

Personally, I am really looking forward to seeing how much Thomsonfly have to pay out for this. If I was taking the case I would be after massive damages. Pilot should also be suspended or fired - just because he was exercising a supposed right of a captain doesn't mean that he is immune from the consequences of negligence. I certainly wouldn't want to fly with a pilot who has such poor judgement.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 85):
Personally, I am really looking forward to seeing how much Thomsonfly have to pay out for this. If I was taking the case I would be after massive damages. Pilot should also be suspended or fired - just because he was exercising a supposed right of a captain doesn't mean that he is immune from the consequences of negligence. I certainly wouldn't want to fly with a pilot who has such poor judgement.

Maybe all passengers were seated and the plane was ready to go. Why should they wait until this guy has finished praying. As I said before a bit overreacting from the crew however I do not see why anybody should be finded. If I do not sit down they will kick me of the plane too!

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 83):
The planes and schedules are IMO more important then one person and i hate to see when all are boarded that still some people are coming late and we had to wait because them.

Same here!
 
User avatar
ManuCH
Posts: 2679
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting Airplanenut (Reply 72):
My rabbi has also said that, for some things, ask the crew if it's ok to do. Namely, there's a requirement to place a leather box on your arm and wrap it with a strap all the way down your arm, and place another on your head. Obviously, I wouldn't just do this on a flight

Probably not everyone is as polite as you are.

On my last AA JFK-ZRH flight there were about 15 people doing the thing with the leather boxes, strapping their arm, standing in the aisles and being noisy - while other people were trying to get some sleep. Nobody asked the FAs, and no FA complained. I respect everyone's religion, but IMHO what they were doing was plain rude to those passengers who wanted to sleep. Oh well...
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting Airplanenut (Reply 72):
Religion is about believing. Many people derive an immense benefit from such a belief. That you don't believe is no excuse to ridicule those who do.

Many people derive an intense benefit from belief in a tooth fairy. Fortunately, most outgrow that particular silly belief.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 79):
You don't see anyone else blowing themselves into pieces but the residents of the Middle East.

No atheist would ever have perpetrated 9/11. Suicide bombing is practiced exclusively by persons with delusions about life after death.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 80):
what are you suggesting, some dude asking if he can whack of in the galley ?

I'm pointing out that just because a practice is appropriate in some places at some times, that does not mean it's appropriate in all places and at all times.
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 86):
Why should they wait until this guy has finished praying.

Yes, but this poor guy merely asked if he could perform his prayers - he didn't get up and arbitrairly start them.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 89):
Yes, but this poor guy merely asked if he could perform his prayers - he didn't get up and arbitrairly start them.

We have very limited availability of information here. Let's not make presumptions. The article is not an example of responsible journalism -- it is tabloid journalism.
 
ravel
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:47 pm

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:41 pm

I think Quran says that because it is always possible to pray at the correct times, one can compensate by praying more often later. Or maybe that only applies to those on the way to Mecca...
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4302
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
He is on a British airline and should respect local laws.



Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 10):
Law has nothing to do with it. Common sense is all that prevails in this instance. And who was to say that this guy wasn't British anyway.....?

7L

= I think your answer was one of the few balanced posts here.

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 83):
I have nothing against Muslims, but i often saw they just stop everything when they want to pray.

= The above disclaimer was very convincing  Wink.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5033
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 70):
religious insanity is the number one problem facing the world. i applaud the workers who decided to call this guy out and kick him out.

You applaud the crew who kicked him off because he asked permission to pray???????????

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 70):
and i don't want this to sound racist

Well, it does.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 70):
to think that god will smite you if you don't pray 5 times every day is just plain crazy.

Who are you to judge?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6113
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 79):
Gee, I wonder why is this the case. You don't see anyone else blowing themselves into pieces but the residents of the Middle East.

Extremism in any religion sucks, but they dont represent the entire relgion by any means (or the majority). I dont think most Muslims enjoy being labeled with the same brand that Terrorist are. I certainly wouldnt enjoy being label the same as the Ku Klux Klan, Neo-Nazism, Jerry Fallwell, The Chrisitain Conservatives (Politically), or any other extreme form of Christianity.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Biman
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:46 am

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Sounds like he was trying to make a statement!! Something that isnt welcome. He is on a British airline and should respect local laws.

Which British law says that one cannot practise their religion? This has NOTHING to do with Britain or law ... this is between finding a workable compromise between a customer's request and a service provider convenience and ability, willingness and flexibility to honor that request. If you want to bring (non-existent) "local laws" into this, then you need to re-examine your values.

I am TOTALLY disgusted by the reaction of ALL concerned who condone this kind kind of reaction by the airline. How is this person's request different from a mother wanting to breast feed her infant in private?

Being a Christian, Hindu, Jew, Muslim or Agnostic is NOT a crime. Asking politely to practise one's religion is also NOT a crime. Religion does not equal terrorism. Anyone who thinks so is no better than the brain-dead bigots who use religion to harm innocent people.

The most that should have happened is a polite refusal to the passenger. Throwing them off the plane and then humiliating them is NOT the right thing to do.

In my 30 years of air travel, I often walk around the aircraft on long haul (10+ hours) flights - talking with crew and fellow passengers. I think fear of terrorism is becoming a convenient excuse by the airline industry to behave like a bunch of lazy megalomaniac prison guards. Bullies don't belong to the service industry ...

Customers deserve respect - the sooner you forget this - the sooner you'll be out of a job. There are plenty of polite and tactful people in the world who deserve to take the places of bullies. Dawning a uniform is NOT a license to behave like an animal. The entire crew should be ashamed of themselves.
 
dz09
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:20 am

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:57 am

I am surprised at how stupid some of these muslims can be. It is open season on muslims and these people keep attracting more attentions to themselves. They should keep a low profile considering all the crap that is going on until things calm down. This guy could have prayed while sitting in his seat, which is perfectly acceptable.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 79):

Let me ask you this, percentage-wise how often do you get pulled for 2nd searaches?

none the past number of years....

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 79):
Gee, I wonder why is this the case. You don't see anyone else blowing themselves into pieces but the residents of the Middle East.

..gee....since >80% of child molesters are white males between the ages of 18-65 maybe we need to DNA-screen every white male in America too... sarcastic ..

Quoting Ual757 (Reply 77):
Muslims don't have to pray when they travel...

...see below...

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 85):
Yes...Muslims do need to pray when travelling

 checkmark 

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 85):
however prayers can be cut down from the obligatory five to three (with the two afternoon and two evening prayers combined).

 checkmark 

Quoting Ravel (Reply 91):
I think Quran says that because it is always possible to pray at the correct times, one can compensate by praying more often later. Or maybe that only applies to those on the way to Mecca...

...that's incorrect....Fly2CHC is correct above....
"Up the Irons!"
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Biman (Reply 95):
Being a Christian, Hindu, Jew, Muslim or Agnostic is NOT a crime. Asking politely to practise one's religion is also NOT a crime. Religion does not equal terrorism. Anyone who thinks so is no better than the brain-dead bigots who use religion to harm innocent people.

You've written that terrorism is no worse than confusion.  Wow!
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5033
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 96):
I am surprised at how stupid some of these muslims can be. It

How is this 'stupid'? All he did was ask permission. He didn't just go there and kneel down, no, he did the correct and polite thing and asked permission. They could have just said no. From what we know, there was absolutely no reason to kick him off the flight.

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