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WildcatYXU
Posts: 3151
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 8):
Maybe when the first pax climb aboard a 9 abreast 31in pitch aircraft and find its just like any other.



Quoting Boston92 (Reply 33):
How about*** Nightmare ) Liner ***???

That about sum's it up. The Nightmareliner will be a special model for all charter airlines (Transat and alikes) who put 9 abreast into a 333.

Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 21):
A typical choice....fly ANA on a humidity adjusted, LED lit, higher pressure 787 8 abreast economy from Narita to Frankfurt or an A340 from LH?

The answer here is clear. However, for how long will the airlines keep the 8 abreast config? The 747 used to be 9 abreast in economy too.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Superfly
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 43):
You guys have a wonderful nostalgic view of what might have been

Thanks.  Smile

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 43):
U.S. Congress hadn't bowed to the then strong and militant U.S. environmental movement.

...President Nixon went along with it. You know I have to blame the Republicans for everything that goes wrong.  Smile

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 43):
I never liked the Dreamliner moniker but grudgingly admit it has serious cache in marketing and if the flying experience meets what BCA promises, it will be appropriate although it will never roll off my tongue without my tasting a little bile.

Same here!
I thought I was the only person feeling this way.

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 47):
the general public will call it Dreamliner

No the general public will think it's "that real big one, you know the 747 that was in that movie with Jodi Foster....umm...Flightplan".  rotfl 

Yep, I over heard a lady saying that after a JetBlue flight from JFK to OAK.
Bring back the Concorde
 
B52overSMF
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):

I was thinking the same thing. That and Worldliner.

Similar to their military planes... Flying Fortress, Superfortress, Stratojet, Stratofortress, Stratotanker, etc.
Conquerer of air molecules.
 
CubanMinotaur
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:10 pm

As the first truly new jet of the new millenia... I think the name Dreamliner is perfect.
Besides... it gives the plane an aura of mystique, and will be long remembered like another "classic", the Constellation or Connie. After all... in its time... the Connie was a radical departure and a most striking airliner.
 
iflyswa
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:13 pm

I need clarification: if Dreamliner ever got a water cannon salute, would that make it a Wet Dreamliner?

...I know for a lot of y'all it already is  rotfl 

iflyswa
Opinions expressed by "iflyswa" are not those of Southwest Airlines Officers, Directors, or Employees.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 49):
I'm pretty certain that the general public will be calling it "That plane we flew in... you know... that Boeing or something"...

The general public doesn't give squat about that name - and whether or not someone will welcome a passenger "onboard the B787 Dreamliner" or not, most people won't even be listening - and two thirds will be thinking afterwards "What type of plane did they just mention?".

Bingo. Your average passenger won't call it a Dreamliner and they won't call it a 787. They'll just call it "that plane" or "that cramped plane" for those in Y.

While I like the 787 and think it is a nice step forward for Boeing and the industry, you'd be woefully mistaken to think this will be some big revolution for passengers. Most won't notice a huge difference between the 787 and the A330, A340, 767, 777, etc. Nicer lights, bigger windows and a little more humidity won't hurt, but the overall experience will remain much the same unless the airlines take it upon themselves to improve the experience.
 
787engineer
Posts: 545
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 55):
Bingo. Your average passenger won't call it a Dreamliner and they won't call it a 787. They'll just call it "that plane" or "that cramped plane" for those in Y.

For most passengers, especially those flying coach, it will be just "that cramped plane" but for more frequent fliers (think, business class) more passengers will know and understand the difference.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 44):
These 3% can be reached by other means - an aluminium frame with carbon panels can do the same weight gain.

With innovative design. . . yes. But with all things being equal a single-piece barrel (whether aluminum or composite) will almost always weigh less than a similarly optimized paneled barrel of the same material.
 
Mir
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 49):
I'm pretty certain that the general public will be calling it "That plane we flew in... you know... that Boeing or something"...

The general public doesn't give squat about that name - and whether or not someone will welcome a passenger "onboard the B787 Dreamliner" or not, most people won't even be listening - and two thirds will be thinking afterwards "What type of plane did they just mention?".

Imagine the future set of conversations:

Passenger getting on a 350: "Hey, this looks like that Dreamliner"
Seat neighbor: "Yeah, it does"
A.netter across the aisle: "Yes, but it's not a Dreamliner, it's an Airbus 350"
Seat neighbor: "Airbus makes Dreamliners too - I saw photos of it on CNN and it looked just like this."
A.netter: "Umm, no, they don't."
Seat neighbor: "Well, I fly five times a year so I know what I'm talking about."

Passenger's wife after the airport pick-up: "How was your flight?"
Passenger: "It was great, we flew on one of those Airbus Dreamliners. Next time I go, I'm going to make sure it's on one of those."

Naturally, the passenger will only look at price when booking the next trip, and won't give a damn about the aircraft type (or know where to find it on the website), but I wouldn't be surprised if the "Dreamliner" name circulated around the general public the same way "Jumbo Jet" or "Learjet" did. A jumbo jet is a 747, but even the DC-10, L-1011, A340 and 767 picked up the name. And to some people, every single corporate jet is a Learjet, regardless of whether it's a Citation, Falcon, Hawker, whatever.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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SEPilot
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 56):
With innovative design. . . yes. But with all things being equal a single-piece barrel (whether aluminum or composite) will almost always weigh less than a similarly optimized paneled barrel of the same material.

Not only will it weigh less but it will not have to worry about longitudinal joints on a pressure vessel.

Quoting Mir (Reply 57):
Naturally, the passenger will only look at price when booking the next trip, and won't give a damn about the aircraft type (or know where to find it on the website), but I wouldn't be surprised if the "Dreamliner" name circulated around the general public the same way "Jumbo Jet" or "Learjet" did.

This may be, but just as the L-049 and its successors were and always will be known as Constellations to layman and aviation buff alike I believe that the 787 will be known as the Dreamliner. Unlike the Constellation the official designation will be known as well; it doesn't matter that a large portion of the public will neither know nor care, it is the enthusiasts that will make or break the name. In this case I believe that it has received enough attention that it will stick
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 57):
And to some people, every single corporate jet is a Learjet, regardless of whether it's a Citation, Falcon, Hawker, whatever.

Ive always done that! Even though I definitely know the difference between say, an old LJ 25 and a Gulfstream IV, I still will call them Learjets if generally referring to a business jet. I know it probably is in the same league as calling every mp3 playing device an ipod or something, but Learjets seem to be a good categorizer for identifying the huge all encompassing category of small jets.
 
D L X
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:40 am

I think the Dreamliner will stick, just like the Connie (Constellation) and Tristar did. And I think it's a good name, and the speculation that Boeing, running out of 7x7 numbers, is switching to names is a good guess. Remember Intel? 8086, 80286, 80386, 80486,... and then someone realized you can't trademark a number (not quite true, but for all intents and purposes here, it is). The "Pentium" was born, and all subsequent x86 chips were called something relating to Pentium until very recently.

I think the idea that Boeing will be able to pull the other play out of the Intel playbook is far fetched though -- Yes, Boeing can mount a campaign to convince people that Boeing planes are superior and Airbus planes are junk, and that they should ask an airline if they fly the Dreamliner, but *very* few people will care what type of plane it is when they buy the ticket. That is pretty far down on the list of things that the flying public cares about; it is well behind 3) service, 2) schedule, and 1) PRICE. However, the Dreamliner is a boon for the airlines because it will be a tool that allows the airlines to increase service, have better schedules, and most importantly, lower the price.

I could be wrong though -- time will tell if airline passengers begin flocking to airplanes that have Dreamliners as opposed to 767s, 330s, 340s, and 350s.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 31):
I can't resist throwing in a few suggestions...
Dreamchaser (for the B crowd)
Dreamcatcher (for the A crowd)

Those are cute, but definitely trademark violations.
 
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777Dad
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
# 377 Stratocruiser
# 307 Stratoliner

or 747 "Jumbo" just to name a few ! Big grin
"I love to fly,I just don't do it enough"
 
Superfly
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:50 am

I will always refer to it as a 787.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Stitch
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 60):
I think the Dreamliner will stick, just like the Connie (Constellation) and Tristar did. And I think it's a good name, and the speculation that Boeing, running out of 7x7 numbers, is switching to names is a good guess.

So Y1 will be "Dreamliner Junior" and Y3 will be "Dreamliner XL". Big grin
 
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N328KF
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 62):
I will always refer to it as a 787.

And I will refer to it as "That which has brought Gallois indigestion."
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
flysherwood
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
A380 were big ideas/breakthroughs worth celebrating

What big breakthrough with the A380? It is an A340 with an extra deck!  Yeah sure

An aircraft made from composites is a HUGE breakthrough. So is the pressurization of the cabin at 6,000 ft. a breakthrough!
 
BlueSkys
Posts: 286
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
Aircraft such as the 707, 747, Concorde, TU-144 and A380 were big ideas/breakthroughs worth celebrating.
So Boeing had a plastic

It is a monumental step in Aerospace engineering.... Ever heard the saying "never judge a book by its cover"?

Hell yes it is something to get excited over...

Do you choose your wife ONLY by how she looks like?
Do you choose a car only by looks and paint job?
Do you judge wine by the label?
Do you like certain bands because of the album cover?
?   


Yes! it is freakin plastic, they made it from recycled plastic knives and forks...   


Cheers!   

[Edited 2007-07-10 20:30:34]
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:24 am

Well I know one thing is for sure. The name "Whalejet" will stick with the A380 here on A.net! Big grin
 
argiepilot
Posts: 23
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:28 am

Well done by Boeing! What else could they produce in this deregulated era? Airlines mainly want more efficient (less costly to operate) planes. And the 787 promises to deliver just that. Passenger comfort? That comes way behind and airlines themselves -not the manufacturers- are ultimately responsible for that (e.g. seating configuration). As for the name “Dreamliner”. Well, as we are all aware, pure and plain marketing! In this case, the name seems to exaggerate the product it represents, though. Maybe the Concorde could have been called a Dreamliner. The dream for a passenger to fly at Mach 2 and cut his flying time in half. But to call the 787 . . . the “Dreamliner”. . . mmm?
 
Superfly
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:40 am

BlueSkys & Flysherwood:
Calm down guys. Read reply 17 & 20.
Also, I've never judged the "looks" of the 787.
Bring back the Concorde
 
DAYflyer
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:00 am

Dreamliner is a darn good moniker for an airplane I think, since it reflects mankinds dream of flight.
One Nation Under God
 
thebry
Posts: 337
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RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 41):
That's a trend, but not a rule. The Chrysler 300 and Ford Five Hundred have been given model numbers from their manufacturers' histories. The Scion xB and the Mazda 3 are hardly luxury cars. On the other hand, the Rolls Royce Phantom, Bentley Continental, Volkswagen Phaeton, Porsche Cayenne, Cadillac Escalade, Aston Martin Vanquish and Lincoln Town Car all seem to get by in the luxury market with names. Numbered sports cars like the Nissan 350Z, Audi TT, Mazda RX-8, Ford GT and BMW Z4 compete with the Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster, Chevrolet Corvette, Lotus Elise, and Chrysler Crossfire.

Great point BOSSAN.  checkmark 

Quoting AirlineEcon (Reply 30):
My final thought... Think about cars. Just about all standard cars use names... escort, malibu, camry, cherokee, while luxury cars use letters and numbers. 325, S500, LS400, G35, TL... Wouldn't Boeing learn from the car industries marketers and use letters and numbers like 777, 330 to associate their planes with luxury, instead of names like Worldliner and Dreamliner.

For the most part, the auto manufacturers that name their cars with numbers do so for a reason... not just because it "sounds" like a luxury name or anything, but because it actually helps describe the car (with some notable exceptions). Take BMW and Mercedes for example. They use the following formula to name their cars: first character = model series, following characters = engine displacement in litres. Examples:

BMW
330 = 3 series with a 3.0 litre in-line 6 cylinder engine
550 = 5 series with a 5.0 litre V8 engine
740 = 7 series with a 4.0 litre V8 engine

Mercedes
E420 = E Class with a 4.2 litre V8 engine
S500 = S Class with a 5.0 litre V8 engine
S600 = S Class with a 6.0 litre V12 engine (sweeeet!)
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Thebry (Reply 71):

Actaually, auto makers are in the process of eventually naming all cars with letters and numerals.
 
GeorgeJetson
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:36 am

RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 72):
Airbus better come up with some neat names and commercials for the XWB. (That just doesn't sound too commercial).

I must say that Boeing has come up with a really great nickname for their 787, certainly much better than anything the competition has come up with. It seems like Airbus does not use nicknames often other than the Beluga. Airbus' XWB (eXtra Wide Body) sounds like a good description of the 300-pound passenger who sat next to me on a flight from Miami to New York on an A300-605R of American Airlines. It's the only time I've been on a plane and had claustrophobia! To my horror, he was also on my return flight and was going to be seating next to me again! However, before the flight became airborne, he was nice enough to voluntarily change seats and spare me from this ordeal once more!
Meet George Jetson
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting Thebry (Reply 71):
Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 41):
That's a trend, but not a rule. The Chrysler 300 and Ford Five Hundred have been given model numbers from their manufacturers' histories. The Scion xB and the Mazda 3 are hardly luxury cars. On the other hand, the Rolls Royce Phantom, Bentley Continental, Volkswagen Phaeton, Porsche Cayenne, Cadillac Escalade, Aston Martin Vanquish and Lincoln Town Car all seem to get by in the luxury market with names. Numbered sports cars like the Nissan 350Z, Audi TT, Mazda RX-8, Ford GT and BMW Z4 compete with the Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster, Chevrolet Corvette, Lotus Elise, and Chrysler Crossfire.

Great point BOSSAN.

Quoting AirlineEcon (Reply 30):
My final thought... Think about cars. Just about all standard cars use names... escort, malibu, camry, cherokee, while luxury cars use letters and numbers. 325, S500, LS400, G35, TL... Wouldn't Boeing learn from the car industries marketers and use letters and numbers like 777, 330 to associate their planes with luxury, instead of names like Worldliner and Dreamliner.

For the most part, the auto manufacturers that name their cars with numbers do so for a reason... not just because it "sounds" like a luxury name or anything, but because it actually helps describe the car (with some notable exceptions). Take BMW and Mercedes for example. They use the following formula to name their cars: first character = model series, following characters = engine displacement in litres. Examples:

BMW
330 = 3 series with a 3.0 litre in-line 6 cylinder engine
550 = 5 series with a 5.0 litre V8 engine
740 = 7 series with a 4.0 litre V8 engine

Mercedes
E420 = E Class with a 4.2 litre V8 engine
S500 = S Class with a 5.0 litre V8 engine
S600 = S Class with a 6.0 litre V12 engine (sweeeet!)

Not all luxury cars are numbers and not all small cars are names.
Luxury cars with names
Fleetwood Brougham
Town Car
Park Avenue
Imperial
Silver Shadow
Silver Spur
Continental
Cornish
Vanden Plas
New Yorker

Non-luxury numeric/alphabet soup
Mazda 626
Mazda 323
Mazda 6
024
EXP
LN7
CRX
G6
6000
Dodge 400
Dodge 600
Dodge 600SE
F150
F250
F350
1500
2500
3500
Bring back the Concorde
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting Thebry (Reply 71):
Take BMW and Mercedes for example. They use the following formula to name their cars: first character = model series, following characters = engine displacement in litres. Examples:

BMW
330 = 3 series with a 3.0 litre in-line 6 cylinder engine
550 = 5 series with a 5.0 litre V8 engine
740 = 7 series with a 4.0 litre V8 engine

Mercedes
E420 = E Class with a 4.2 litre V8 engine
S500 = S Class with a 5.0 litre V8 engine
S600 = S Class with a 6.0 litre V12 engine

That's only partly true now. Quite a few BMW and Mercedes model numbers no longer precisely match the engine displacement. Referring to models sold in the USA, here are some where the numbers don't match:

BMW
328i and 335i - both have 3.0 litre engine
528 and 535i - both 3.0 litre
550i, 650i, 750i - all 4.8 litre

Mercedes
C230 - 2.5 litre
C280 - 3.0 litre
S600 - 5.5 litre

The same applies in Europe where there are many more models and a much wider variety of engine options. For example, some models in Europe where model numbers and engine sizes don't match:

BMW
318i - 2.0 litre
318d (diesel) - 2.0 litre
335i - 3.0 litre
325d and 335d (diesels) - 3.0 litre
523i - 2.5 litre
525i - 3.0 litre
550i - 4.8 litre
525d and 535d (diesels) - 3.0 litre

Mercedes
C200 - 1.8 litre
C230 - 2.5 litre
C280 - 3.0 litre
S500 - 5.5 litre
S600 - 5.5 litre
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 59):
Learjets seem to be a good categorizer for identifying the huge all encompassing category of small jets.

I find "bizjet" works well.  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 am

RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting Ilikeflight (Reply 3):
would you rather fly on a plane called 787 or Dreamliner

787

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
I'd rather go on the 787 than on the Dreamliner, which to me sounds too cheesy to be the name of an airplane

 checkmark 

Quoting Iflyswa (Reply 54):
if Dreamliner ever got a water cannon salute, would that make it a Wet Dreamliner?

Lock the thread, we have a winner!
 
Boston92
Topic Author
Posts: 2603
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: When Will The Title "Dreamliner" Be Dropped

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:30 am

Anybody catch Jay Leno last night, he had his jokes on the Dreamliner...

"Boeing has unveiled it newest airplane...the 787 Dreamliner...it is made out of almost 100% composite "plastic" materials...actually they used the same stuff they make the food out of"

Then he tends to agree with some of us that 'Dreamliner" is cheesy:

"Isnt 'Dreamliner' kinda cheesy? I mean, it reminds me of some kinda cheap maybeline eye make-up."

Just thought I would share!

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