pit
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Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:37 am

Hello all. Well, i was just wanting to point out that Southwest has basically won the battle at PIT. slowly but surely Southwest is gaining US Airway O&D at PIT. When Southwest first started service into PIT, US had about 15 or so mainline flight to PHL. One of the flights was a 767. About a year and a half later US has dropped all but three mainline flights and left the rest for its express to pick up. Now that WN has a majority of the PIT market, how long do you guys think it will be uintill WN takes all of US's customers from PIT. Also when do you think Southwest will add more flights to Pittsburgh. All comments welcome.

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itsnotfinals
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:47 am

But US decided to de-hub PIT and focus on PHL CLT and PHX I am not sure they really care what WN does in PIT as US only considers PIT a focus city now sadly.

I am sure they would prefer to keep passengers on routes where they compete with WN, however there really was no "Battle" in PIT, US basically said, go ahead WN we are done here.
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boeing743
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:11 am

Yeah, but good things that WN would be able to go any where people want to go since WN are kind of popular now to many people. Another good thing about WN is that they able to bring jobs to people that need a job to PIT and PIT really need a profitable routes out of PIT to make money. So that is good things that WN would step into PIT and help them out when PIT really desperated for money and business thru PIT.
 
freshlove1
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting PIT" class=quote target=_blank>PIT (Thread starter):
how long do you guys think it will be uintill WN takes all of US's customers from PIT

Are you kidding me? US really does not care that much about PIT anymore, thats why it was removed from being a hub city. They continue to cut flights and soon it will be just like LGA or DCA. WN will never take all of US people in PIT or any other city that they both fly into.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:55 am

I have said it a bazillion times. Airlines have learned to deal with WN. You can't fight them, because there is a minimal chance of winning. You have to learn to compete with them, and that is how most airlines have learned to adapt to WN. Look at LAS and PHX. HP/US have survived just fine with WN being there in large force. WN is a great airline, and they have a popular product. But, so does US.
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kubus
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:33 pm

Southwest's share at at PIT is 13% (April'07, thanks Steeler83) to US's 47%, I don't see it as winning a battle. But they did make a nice foothold here and did exactly what they supposed to do. Stimulate the market for them and everyone else. I don't see them adding more flights anytime soon.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 2):
Another good thing about WN is that they able to bring jobs to people that need a job to PIT and PIT really need a profitable routes out of PIT to make money.

WN employs a small ground services/CSA crew in PIT as it is nothing more than a standard outstation for them.

USAirways just signed for a brand new operations center, and still has a maintenance center, not to mention crews based in Pittsburgh. I'm willing to bet US's employee level is at 30 to 1 versus WN's in Allegheny County.

Quoting PIT" class=quote target=_blank>PIT (Thread starter):
how long do you guys think it will be uintill WN takes all of US's customers from PIT.

Never, quite simply. US Airways still has over a 3 to 1 advantage in O&D pax carried in PIT. US Airways still dominates WN on cities served directly (and via one-stops) VS WN from PIT. USAirways also still has a HUGE Dividend Miles following in PIT. And who is going to take Pittsburgh's ~half million int'l O&D pax? Surely not WN!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
WN employs a small ground services/CSA crew in PIT as it is nothing more than a standard outstation for them.

...and some of WN's PIT employees commute from Chicago (fly WN on a Sunday night and you'll run in to them).

PIT is still a small WN station, with nonstop service to 7 destinations. In a sense, WN is 'winning' each of them in terms of seats, and WN has arguably had the largest impact on US to CHI (where US is down to just one daily mainline flight) and PHL.

WN has actually been fairly conservative in their expansion of PIT, and most who follow WN could probably have predicted each of the first seven cities. Perhaps the reason that we have not seen more aggressive expansion is that WN does not want to compete further with US. They have fairly large stations in each of the non-Florida cities they currently serve from PIT (PHL is something of an exception to this, though the route fits the WN model perfectly), which might suggest that WN is still unsure of their level of local support at PIT.
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vega
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting Kubus (Reply 5):
Southwest's share at at PIT is 13% (April'07, thanks Steeler83) to US's 47%, I don't see it as winning a battle. But they did make a nice foothold here and did exactly what they supposed to do. Stimulate the market for them and everyone else. I don't see them adding more flights anytime soon.

Not to be picky, but since we are comparing WN and US at PIT, it might be appropriate to update those %. The 13/47 are actually the 12 month numbers for PHL. PIT is closer to 35% US (including Air Wis) and 12% WN for the 12 months ending April 2007. So in fact US only exceeds WNs numbers at PIT by 23%, not 34% - quite a difference. Now if B6 could eat into those US numbers like they desperately want to, there would be even more parity between US and WN. I do agree with Tornado82 however, the majority of US's O&D at PIT would be very tough for WN to break, primarily because of US's World-Wide Frequent Flyer Program. US is well aware of this trump card and plays it well when forecasting the effects of cuts at PIT.
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PITrules
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting PIT" class=quote target=_blank>PIT (Thread starter):
Now that WN has a majority of the PIT market, how long do you guys think it will be until WN takes all of US's customers from PIT. Also when do you think Southwest will add more flights to Pittsburgh. All comments welcome.

I don't think SW will take all of US' passengers, but they are taking a good percentage of them, and growing. They only need about 15 more daily departures to match US Airways for mainline departures in PIT. IF, and when they match US Airways for total passengers in PIT, they will be able to do it with a fraction of total US Airways/US Express flights and employees.

As far as new markets for SW in PIT, there are a handfull which SW may be successful at that have never even been flown from PIT, such as HOU and ISP, plus currently underserved markets such as SoCal and the Pac NW.

It'll have to wait however; SW has bigger priorities at the moment.

[Edited 2007-07-11 11:23:03]
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Tornado82
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 9):
They only need about 15 more daily departures to match US Airways for mainline departures in PIT.

But since the WN "hubs" have now been pretty much saturated, they'd have to start running those flights on a more random routing, the kind they're likely only going to add 1-2x at a time. So that would require at least 8 more cities from PIT. Not to mention the most underserved markets from PIT at this point are transcons and near transcons, the same routes WN has been dropping nationwide the past few weeks. PIT's biggest needs in markets WN serves right now are probably SAN, SEA, and a bit more DFW/DAL and IAH/HOU. Two of those are transcons, one of those is impossible because WN can't fly it (and don't give me the Wright Amendment whine... WN is "free to move about the metroplex" to DFW to play by the rules like everyone else) and the other would be from a far superior opponent than USAirways... Continental, who's successfully survived WN being across town for ages.

Other possibilities for WN growth in PIT are MCI, BNA, and STL but they're all being served from PIT right now, and I just don't see there being enough traffic to support multiple 737's on those already-served routes. They're not travel hot-spots by any means.

Therefore I stand by my previous statement, unless US were to significantly turn their back on PIT do to some MAJOR economic downfall, I don't see US ever losing their lead in Pittsburgh to WN. For that matter, hasn't Delta's growth rate in PIT been higher than WN's the past few months?
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 4):
Look at LAS and PHX. HP/US have survived just fine with WN being there in large force.

So I take it you haven't heard of the US Airways draw down of Las Vegas that is happening later this year? The estimations are that up to 20% of the LAS schedule will be gone in favor of focusing on LAS as an O/D and a night hub. The aircraft dropped from Las Vegas will be re-assigned to PHL, CLT, and PHX.

-JD
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access-air
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:02 am

The only thing that I see is a Bad thing about any airport the Southwest invades like Pittsburg, is that they dont serve the smaller communities like USAir does. Since Southwest refuses to form any joint fares with any regional airlines like USAir doers with it's Express carriers they are actually a detriment in my opinion to any new city they come into that ends up being a big operation for example PIT, PHL, MDW or STL....They restrict the perimeter cities or smaller communities from being provided any decent online conmenctions.
I like the busines model of Southwest but since they seem to moving away from, Puddle Jumping model, They also need to either form their own Regional partner or they need to find soemone to represent them in the smaller cities that they could be serving from their larger cities that they fly into like the cities mentioned above. Not every smaller city is driveable to a Southwest city. Midway wsas the priome example of when SW essentially took over ATA they could have kept the Chicago Express regional in place and fed their MDW "Hub" of sorts with those flights. Can you imagine how the cities that were serve by ChiExp would have benefitted with online conenctions on SWA????

I know that I am to draw negative feedback from all the sketpics on this, but I have been saying this forever.
The "Southwest Effect" is good for a "hub" city like PIT but bad news for the smaller cities on the fringe.

Access-Air
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Tornado82
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 12):
Since Southwest refuses to form any joint fares with any regional airlines like USAir doers with it's Express carriers they are actually a detriment in my opinion to any new city they come into that ends up being a big operation for example PIT, PHL, MDW or STL....They restrict the perimeter cities or smaller communities from being provided any decent online conmenctions.

Amen to that. There are FAR more people living in Mid-sized cities in America than in the "hub" cities in America.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 12):
The only thing that I see is a Bad thing about any airport the Southwest invades like Pittsburg, is that they dont serve the smaller communities like USAir does. Since Southwest refuses to form any joint fares with any regional airlines like USAir doers with it's Express carriers they are actually a detriment in my opinion to any new city they come into that ends up being a big operation for example PIT, PHL, MDW or STL....They restrict the perimeter cities or smaller communities from being provided any decent online conmenctions.

Yeah, there have been many recent victims of this in PIT. ABE, DAY, and soon BUF quickly come to the top of my mind. For instance tomorrow I have a meeting in DAY right near the airport out there, had we still had direct flights there I'd fly it (hey, it's not my money!) and go there by air, but when it's going to take me longer to fly PIT-CLE/DTW/CVG-DAY, I'll just drive my car out I-70.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 12):
Not every smaller city is driveable to a Southwest city.

And why should people drive anyways. If there's an airport in your back yard (take ABE for example from when I lived there) why drive all the way to where Southwest determines you should fly. Spot on again, brother.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 12):
Can you imagine how the cities that were serve by ChiExp would have benefitted with online conenctions on SWA????

It cost them my business. I flew SBN-MDW-PIT a couple times when in college out there. ATA's 738's were brand spankin new at the time and the times/fares fit my means. It was alot easier to get a ride to the Dune Park Southshore RR Station to get directly to SBN's airport than it was to connect trains a couple times to get to MDW/ORD.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 12):

The "Southwest Effect" is good for a "hub" city like PIT but bad news for the smaller cities on the fringe.

Just look at the service available, and emplanements at ABE before and after Southwest came to PHL for a perfect example.


Excellent post Access-Air. You've summed up the "Southwest Effect" beautifully. For every winner there are losers, and in the case of the Southwest effect the losers are any smaller city.
 
ScottB
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 4):
Look at LAS and PHX. HP/US have survived just fine with WN being there in large force.

Well, America West "survived" at PHX and LAS, but they certainly did not thrive. America West lost roughly $600 million on an operating basis ($660 million net) between 2000 and 2004 (including an operating loss during 2000, a strong year for the industry). America West showed good profitability between 1997 and 1999 -- but WN has seen substantial growth at both PHX and LAS since then.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
Other possibilities for WN growth in PIT are MCI, BNA, and STL but they're all being served from PIT right now, and I just don't see there being enough traffic to support multiple 737's on those already-served routes. They're not travel hot-spots by any means.

I can see one or two daily 737's being successful to each of those, and I'd add DTW, IND, SDF, RDU, RSW, MSY, and HOU as long shots. BWI-PIT at this point probably also has room to grow. Service from PIT to BDL, PVD, and MHT might be workable with a modest amount of connecting/through traffic at PIT, but it'd be unworkable if they had to rely on connections. I think it makes more sense for WN to grow at PHL and BWI than to grow at PIT, though; they're just stronger markets. In the long term (i.e. 5 years plus), it's not far-fetched that WN might outpace US at PIT -- but if you'd have told someone in early 2000 that the US Airways hub at PIT would be cut by over two-thirds in five years, they would have laughed at you.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
I can see one or two daily 737's being successful to each of those, and I'd add DTW, IND, SDF, RDU, RSW, MSY, and HOU

I could see NW throwing CRJ's at IND before WN throwing 737's. That route is very hit and miss currently on US and I'm quite familiar with it. One trip it'll have 20 pax on the E-170, the next trip it'll be overbooked by 6. If WN threw a 737 on PIT-IND I'd expect NW's response to be strong and furious protecting their focus city in Indy. Likewise if WN threw a PIT-DTW. NW has that well served with a mix of DC9's and CRJ's throughout the day. With a "Southwest effect" you might gain some traffic off of the turnpikes, but I doubt it would support anything.

RDU probably doesn't need anything more than the ERJ's it already has on US. If it looked viable I'm sure Eagle would already be RJ-ing it to PIT. I bet the surest way to get Eagle RJ-ing PIT-RDU would be a Southwest 737 running that route.

SDF is already US-served, and that route exists primarily due to pre-bought contracts.

MSY - does anyone still go there? Not to be insulting to MSY, but honestly their air travel market has slumped pretty well. US used to run it, then dropped it post-Katrina. If the cruise ship business would boost then maybe, but even that isn't enough to support a year round route.

RSW - Maaaybe. I think US runs it in the winter. USA3000 runs it as well. In terms of WN it doesn't seem to be much of an operation for them currently that they'd start adding flights from it to a 20x outstation like PIT.

HOU - With some of the fares CO gets away with on IAH I can see this one way ahead of any of those others... US used to run the route as well with the 170 (it was one of the first 170 routes) and dropped it and DFW at the same time from PIT. I still think US was foolish to drop IAH, and IMHO there's room to grow on that route for someone. CO is somewhat limited by union contracts on it now (3x mainline total in PIT due to PIT being an ExpressJet station).

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
Service from PIT to BDL, PVD, and MHT might be workable with a modest amount of connecting/through traffic at PIT, but it'd be unworkable if they had to rely on connections.

The one out of that I could most see is MHT. US supported 737's on it into late 2004 when I was flying that on a semi weekly basis. Of course alot of it was connecting, but I'm still shocked to this day that MHT isn't at least 2x RJ on US. One impediment I can see for PVD/MHT (since WN considers that "Boston") is that with B6's PIT-BOS E-190's, the yields are already down in the dumps. Throwing a few 737's worth of seats on to PVD/MHT combined with B6 @ Logan would lead to alot of $29 fares for everyone.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
BWI-PIT at this point probably also has room to grow.

This I definitely agree with. MANY BWI-area residents are "Yinzers" by birth (just drive I-70 west of Frederick/through Breezewood, or I-68 on a weekend for proof) so with cheap and plentiful seats there is a plethora of traffic to steal from the highways when they're coming up to visit the family and whatnot. The question is how cheap must the fares go to pull this off? One of FlyI's best routes was PIT-IAD (dare I say the only profitable one, haha) which was a similar thing as the "Southwest Effect." PIT-Baltimore/Washington is an easier (and toll free if you're smart!) drive compared to PIT-PHL though, so it may be a little harder to steal the pax from the highways than it was on PIT-PHL.
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Kubus (Reply 5):
Southwest's share at at PIT is 13% (April'07, thanks Steeler83)

Any time.  Smile

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
Never, quite simply. US Airways still has over a 3 to 1 advantage in O&D pax carried in PIT. US Airways still dominates WN on cities served directly (and via one-stops) VS WN from PIT. USAirways also still has a HUGE Dividend Miles following in PIT.

I agree with that as well. Not sure if I have anything else to add...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
And who is going to take Pittsburgh's ~half million int'l O&D pax? Surely not WN!

Wow... I had no idea PIT's O&D was that much. I imagine that number is an annual estimate? If that is the case, that comes to over 1,200 people/day: 500,000/365 I believe...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
But since the WN "hubs" have now been pretty much saturated, they'd have to start running those flights on a more random routing, the kind they're likely only going to add 1-2x at a time. So that would require at least 8 more cities from PIT. Not to mention the most underserved markets from PIT at this point are transcons and near transcons, the same routes WN has been dropping nationwide the past few weeks. PIT's biggest needs in markets WN serves right now are probably SAN, SEA, and a bit more DFW/DAL and IAH/HOU. Two of those are transcons, one of those is impossible because WN can't fly it (and don't give me the Wright Amendment whine...

And transcon flights have done quite well in the past from PIT. Then again, that was back in the days of the PIT hub... It looks like there is still demand for at least 1 or 2 dailies to SAN and SEA. I guess US only has them as seasonal, if at all, due to the lack of aircraft.

Don't worry pal, I will spare you the torture of the Wright crap!  Smile A frequency or two to HOU might work as well...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 13):
Excellent post Access-Air. You've summed up the "Southwest Effect" beautifully. For every winner there are losers, and in the case of the Southwest effect the losers are any smaller city.

Oy... PIT was a MAJOR loser in the Southwest Effect beginning circa 1993 and ending in May, 2005. In 1993, WN entered BWI, and ultimately opened up many regional US strongholds in the years that followed. Ultimately, WN took US' connecting pax away from US at PIT as WN grew their BWI operation into what it is now. All of this is from a post from a few months ago, pretty much explaining why the US hub was on the chopping block when US was in bk...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
If WN threw a 737 on PIT-IND I'd expect NW's response to be strong and furious protecting their focus city in Indy. Likewise if WN threw a PIT-DTW. NW has that well served with a mix of DC9's and CRJ's throughout the day. With a "Southwest effect" you might gain some traffic off of the turnpikes, but I doubt it would support anything.

NW is rather dedicated to IND and DTW IMHO as well. I do wonder just how strongly they would respond to such a route opening up... Perhaps with some E70s or a DC9 to IND???

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
This I definitely agree with. MANY BWI-area residents are "Yinzers" by birth (just drive I-70 west of Frederick/through Breezewood, or I-68 on a weekend for proof) so with cheap and plentiful seats there is a plethora of traffic to steal from the highways when they're coming up to visit the family and whatnot. The question is how cheap must the fares go to pull this off?

I live up in Lancaster PA-Dutch country, and I am closer to BWI than I am to PHL. That long drive on the Turnpike can be a royal pain in the ass quite a few times!

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
One of FlyI's best routes was PIT-IAD (dare I say the only profitable one, haha) which was a similar thing as the "Southwest Effect." PIT-Baltimore/Washington is an easier (and toll free if you're smart!) drive compared to PIT-PHL though, so it may be a little harder to steal the pax from the highways than it was on PIT-PHL.

I actually tried to book my WN flight out of BWI, but with only 3 daily flights, and each of them selling out in advance of a couple of weeks, that got tough. BWI is only 1.5 hours from where I am at. I think WN should definitely add some flights on PIT-BWI!!
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S5FA170
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 9):
SW may be successful at that have never even been flown from PIT, such as HOU and ISP,

Not to nitpick, but before USAir handed the ISP market to Southwest, USAir mainline did offer non-stop service to ISP from Pittsburgh and several other locations. PIT is just following in the footsteps of other high-profile sacrifices in the USAir network. ISP, BWI, PIT ... it never ends. If it isn't Philadelphia, they see no reason for it.
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F9Animal
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:05 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):
So I take it you haven't heard of the US Airways draw down of Las Vegas that is happening later this year? The estimations are that up to 20% of the LAS schedule will be gone in favor of focusing on LAS as an O/D and a night hub. The aircraft dropped from Las Vegas will be re-assigned to PHL, CLT, and PHX.

-JD

I actually did not hear that US was scaling back their LAS operation. However, LAS has always been a night operator for the HP part of US. If they are scaling back operations at LAS, I would imagine it perhaps coming from some of the day time flights. LAS has become so congested.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
Well, America West "survived" at PHX and LAS, but they certainly did not thrive. America West lost roughly $600 million on an operating basis ($660 million net) between 2000 and 2004 (including an operating loss during 2000, a strong year for the industry). America West showed good profitability between 1997 and 1999 -- but WN has seen substantial growth at both PHX and LAS since then.

WN however has the muscle and size to do it. However, I think that the tables have somewhat turned for US with the merger. Their numbers since merging have not been too bad, and it seems as though it may have been a healthy move. I guess time will tell for sure, but I am optimistic that they may come out on top after all. Hopefully they will get their operation in check and get the contracts satisfied for both the employees and the company.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
D328
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:03 am

I worked at PIT from 08/2006 till 06/2007 for PSA/USexp Ramp I just think USAir should pull all mainline flights and just make everyone go to PHL/CLT since those cities are their babies, why waste the mainline planes at PIT. Just do hourly express flights to PHL/CLT.

When I quit the biggest plane USAir was flying in was an A320 which replaced the 757 to LAS. Which is sad that flight went out full just about every day.

USAir customer service is horrible all around. Once and a while you get a nice agent/attendant. But it is getting rare.

The last day I worked I was doing a Air Wisky flight to PHL which got delayed due to crew availability (end of the month people timing out I believe??? PHL/weather to blame?) well I was talking with two families that were both going INTL and were going to miss their connections (one family going on a cruise the next day, why would you fly the day before your cruise beats me, not planning well there). Well I talked to the cruise father and asked why he was flying USAir INTL surprises me anyone does their product is horrible, he told me the travel agent kept pushing them to fly USAir. I replied to him after working for USAir I would never pay for a ticket to fly on them. He laughed and said he probably will not either again.

Won't it be too long before people just realize USAir/PHL is not working and just will avoid it, and find other airlines?
-I am I have to fly SCE to MCO to get to another flight school and I told my parents I will not fly USAir and they are paying around $150 more for me to fly another airline. I will not fly and Low Cost Carriers either, I will not support Welfare airlines.

I wish flying was a privilege like it used to be, dressed up, respectable. Pilots/Attendants were looked up to. Kid saying I want to be a pilot. Today there is none of that sad. Who wants to work for a regional flying 50 souls around and have to be on welfare at the same time. Something is wrong with that. Rid the US of all LCCs.

Sorry to any USAir lovers, but until they return to what they were long ago I will bash them.
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting D328 (Reply 19):
Rid the US of all LCCs.

A lot of WN flight attendants can make over 45K a year and pilots make up to 164,000. It has nothing to do with LCCs. Regional flying made sense for a while, but today not so much, and the poor employees get shafted. I still blame Mesa for starting the decent into sub-standard wages for the regional industry.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:45 am

Prediction:

Within 5 years SW will take over PHL and PIT, leaving US with only one hub on the east coast: CLT.
One Nation Under God
 
D328
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 20):

But don't the WN's of the world charge near nothing for a seat. So the Legacy's have to lower prices to a point where its hard to make a profit, then rising fuel cost, then inturn backrupt them then loser wages for most legacy's?

But WN just raised their prices. I guess the fuel is getting to much for them, soon they will be in the same boat as everyone else, when the hedges are gone. I cannot wait to see the day WN is just trying to get by. Soon people will find out they aren't the cheapest anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288650,00.html


As for regional flying Colgan Air has it right with TURBO-PROPS, these little 50 seat jets do not cut it.
Mesa is the pits, I would never consider working for that CEO. He's an @$$! And for the people who say "well the flying public does not the sight of a propeller," screw them let them walk or drive. If it keeps an airline profitable let them do it and not worry about the ignorant flying public.

Give me a turbo-prop over a regional jet anyday.
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting D328 (Reply 19):
I am I have to fly SCE to MCO to get to another flight school and I told my parents I will not fly USAir and they are paying around $150 more for me to fly another airline.

I take it that you depend on DL via ATL then?

Quoting D328 (Reply 19):
I will not fly and Low Cost Carriers either, I will not support Welfare airlines.

I choose who I fly based on where I am going, the fare between the two cities, and the equipment used. I have flown both WN and US recently, although my last few flights were with US. As of late, the cheapest round trip fares between PHL and PIT was $318 plus taxes and fees, and that "low" fare is only available on flights before 8 am, or after 8 pm. With WN, the low fares are available on all of their flights; not just one or two at beyond rediculous times...

If I were traveling across the country, or on an international flight, particularly transatlantic or Asia flights, then I would consider a legacy airline like CO, DL, or AA.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 18):
Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):
So I take it you haven't heard of the US Airways draw down of Las Vegas that is happening later this year? The estimations are that up to 20% of the LAS schedule will be gone in favor of focusing on LAS as an O/D and a night hub. The aircraft dropped from Las Vegas will be re-assigned to PHL, CLT, and PHX.

-JD


I actually did not hear that US was scaling back their LAS operation. However, LAS has always been a night operator for the HP part of US. If they are scaling back operations at LAS, I would imagine it perhaps coming from some of the day time flights. LAS has become so congested.

I have on another thread from a few months ago. I heard that they were scaling back to some 90 flights or so by the end of this year...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
freshlove1
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 21):
Prediction:

Within 5 years SW will take over PHL and PIT, leaving US with only one hub on the east coast: CLT.

Yeah ok thats why WN is cutting flights from PHL. They can have PIT as US really doesen't care about it anymore. WN will never take over PHL from US. Stop drinking the Kool Aid it is giving you a false sense of hope.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting D328 (Reply 19):
I have to fly SCE to MCO to get to another flight school and I told my parents I will not fly USAir and they are paying around $150 more for me to fly another airline. I will not fly and Low Cost Carriers either, I will not support Welfare airlines.

Must be nice. If I pulled that BS when I was of the age mommy and daddy still paid my way my old man would have said "Then YOU pay the $150 extra," and I could have either paid it, or flown US and sucked it up. Of course $150 is more than the price of an hour of rental at most FBO's... and I value my money alot more than to whine about who's metal I fly on. For $150 less I'd even consider Southwest.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 16):
Wow... I had no idea PIT's O&D was that much. I imagine that number is an annual estimate? If that is the case, that comes to over 1,200 people/day: 500,000/365 I believe...

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/employee_newsletter.pdf It's actually 600k annually.
 
boeing743
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:52 am

People of IND has been strong support of NW since they expand afterthe loss of ATA in back. All of NW flights has been doing good and probably some shaky time. We still maintance all of route and some change in frequently as always. Also the sesonal services has been doing well on NW. Airtran has been doing good too but they are battle a battle with getting passengers because WN, NW and Airtran flying to Florida so it is race among them to see who will sucess in long terms
 
atct
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
RSW - Maaaybe. I think US runs it in the winter

This is a run that could use a daily Southwest 737. I also think HOU would be a great run.

Quoting D328 (Reply 19):
Rid the US of all LCCs.

Do you realize that WN pays their top captains as good or better than any current legacy carrier? Heck dont compare the top Cap at WN to the top A330 Cap at US, its really sad how little scareways pilots make. They (WN) are only rivaled in pay (and beneifts) by FedEx and UPS. They are definitely one of the top airlines to work for as a pilot.

ATCT
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malaysia
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:36 am

US dehubbed PSA in California.... WN moved in
US dehubbed BWI..... WN moved in
US dehubbed PIT....... WN moved in


US dehubbed PHL...... WN movied in  footinmouth 
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 25):
http://www.flypittsburgh.com/employee_newsletter.pdf It's actually 600k annually.

Wow... for once, it's even above the "estimated" 500k. Saweet!!  Smile

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 28):
US dehubbed PHL...... WN movied in

Ummm... yeah, now I get the foot-in-mouth bit. Good one...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting D328 (Reply 19):
I worked at PIT from 08/2006 till 06/2007 for PSA/USexp Ramp I just think USAir should pull all mainline flights and just make everyone go to PHL/CLT since those cities are their babies, why waste the mainline planes at PIT. Just do hourly express flights to PHL/CLT.

When I quit the biggest plane USAir was flying in was an A320 which replaced the 757 to LAS. Which is sad that flight went out full just about every day.

USAir customer service is horrible all around. Once and a while you get a nice agent/attendant. But it is getting rare.

The last day I worked I was doing a Air Wisky flight to PHL which got delayed due to crew availability (end of the month people timing out I believe??? PHL/weather to blame?) well I was talking with two families that were both going INTL and were going to miss their connections (one family going on a cruise the next day, why would you fly the day before your cruise beats me, not planning well there). Well I talked to the cruise father and asked why he was flying USAir INTL surprises me anyone does their product is horrible, he told me the travel agent kept pushing them to fly USAir. I replied to him after working for USAir I would never pay for a ticket to fly on them. He laughed and said he probably will not either again.

Won't it be too long before people just realize USAir/PHL is not working and just will avoid it, and find other airlines?
-I am I have to fly SCE to MCO to get to another flight school and I told my parents I will not fly USAir and they are paying around $150 more for me to fly another airline. I will not fly and Low Cost Carriers either, I will not support Welfare airlines.

I wish flying was a privilege like it used to be, dressed up, respectable. Pilots/Attendants were looked up to. Kid saying I want to be a pilot. Today there is none of that sad. Who wants to work for a regional flying 50 souls around and have to be on welfare at the same time. Something is wrong with that. Rid the US of all LCCs.

Sorry to any USAir lovers, but until they return to what they were long ago I will bash them.

Wowsa. I can understand that you may have been unhappy there, but it is really interesting that you would contact the passenger afterwards. It almost sound disgruntled. US does have a long ways to go, and even Parker admitted it. There is no shame in admitting faults, and the is no shame in trying. US is determined to succeed, and I feel comfortable in saying that they will succeed. US will never be what it once was, and the only finger pointing to blame is the airline industry in whole. Every airline is trying to survive, and cost cutting is never going to bring back the glory. It takes money to have a premium product, and neither the airlines or average passenger is willing to pay it. Low cost seems to be the way of the industry.

I have watched every legacy carrier lose its glory and luxury. They reserve the glory and luxury for the front of the aircraft, and even first class is becoming a thing of the past. I know, it sucks, and I miss it too. But, when it comes to my next trip, cost is going to be everything. If I can save $10.00 by not having an extra inch of recline, you better bet I will book it. I have learned not to care about what kind of aircraft is getting me there anymore. I care about the cost and safety. If US is $10.00 cheaper than WN, then who do you think I would book on? How many other cost conscious travelers would do the same?
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HPRamper
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 21):
Prediction:

Within 5 years SW will take over PHL and PIT, leaving US with only one hub on the east coast: CLT.

ELL OH ELL.

US would dehub PHX before giving up PHL. Even with HQ in Tempe.

I just don't quite understand the lack of love for PIT on US's part. Everyone I've talked to, including coworkers say the PIT airport is a great facility...and over the past month, loads to PIT have been ridiculous. People would come to our counter begging to be flown, somehow, to PIT but it just wasn't happening. Everything zeroed out on every carrier. We could easily support at least a summer seasonal flight. We get passengers that, shockingly, still CONNECT in PIT to small markets in that region. I mean hell a daily A319 would be perfect.

I have to think aircraft shortage plays at least a small part in this. Hopefully as these new orders start rolling in we will some sort of service  Smile
 
Tornado82
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 31):
We get passengers that, shockingly, still CONNECT in PIT to small markets in that region. I mean hell a daily A319 would be perfect.

Out of curiosity, where are you that you are asking for the A319?
 
D328
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:50 am

RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 23):

I trust Delta more in ATL than USAirways in PHL.

If USAirways had SCE PIT MCO or SCE CLT MCO I would have thought about doing either of them, but no way will I connect in PHL on USAirways. I flew into PHL a total of 9 times non-reving and my 5 of the 9 flights were delayed (Due to ATC problems into/out of PHL), I was able to log into SHARES and look it up. And after non-reving around 28xxx miles on US I would flying with a different airline again. Hopefully PHL can clean up. But I do not see it happening anytime soon.
 
pitops
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 21):
Prediction:

Within 5 years SW will take over PHL and PIT, leaving US with only one hub on the east coast: CLT.

Highly doubtful. WN is actually cutting flights from there and US is adding more. I highly doubt they will take over PIT either. We all would like this but I doubt it will happen. As of now, they have 3 gates and are perfectly happy with that. The future growth will be just adding a few frequencies to current destinations they serve. There was rumors floating around that they were buying 2 more gates but that turned out to be false when I talked to a WN supervisor. PHL will continue to be a HUGE hub for US. They have the UK market. CLT has the Carribean market for US. I would like to see PIT turned into a regional hub for US allowing for WN to take over more of their mainline flights. But that is just me wishing.

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 24):
Yeah ok thats why WN is cutting flights from PHL. They can have PIT as US really doesen't care about it anymore. WN will never take over PHL from US. Stop drinking the Kool Aid it is giving you a false sense of hope.

But you got to love the sugar high!!
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
HPRamper
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 32):
Out of curiosity, where are you that you are asking for the A319?

Sorry for not clarifying. I'm at PDX.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 35):
Sorry for not clarifying. I'm at PDX.

I was supposed to go up there for a wedding next week and changed my plans then due to some other stuff. Holy crap the ticket prices to get up there from PIT when I was shopping.
 
Indy
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RE: Southwest VS US Airways @ PIT

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 26):
People of IND has been strong support of NW since they expand afterthe loss of ATA in back. All of NW flights has been doing good and probably some shaky time. We still maintance all of route and some change in frequently as always. Also the sesonal services has been doing well on NW. Airtran has been doing good too but they are battle a battle with getting passengers because WN, NW and Airtran flying to Florida so it is race among them to see who will sucess in long terms

NW is doing well because they offer nonstop service out of IND to a good part of the best destinations in the U.S. They still need a few cities for the best coverage. So they offer the routes people want. They have a good FF and elite program. And before too long they will be able to have a lounge as well. Apparently that item is in hot demand at IND. NW isn't always the cheapest here but they do add value on top of a seat and that is why they will continue to be successful.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air

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