rootsair
Topic Author
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:05 pm

Hi folks

As many of you have realised, older 747's (100s ,200s) often used to have black or blue paint in fron of the cockpit. Was it something meant to reduce the reflection of sunlight? Was it some fashion to have those on 747s. It would be nice if someone could tell me the reason for that


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank Hudson



Regards
BM airplane  wave 
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
RandyWaldron
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:40 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:09 pm

That black paint is used to absorb, rather than reflect the glare from the sunlight. If you notice, other aircraft types have the same black paint underneath the cockpit windows. The 747, with it's elevated cockpit and elongated nose, can create quite a glare on a sunny day, and that glare is right in your face.
"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
 
Strathpeffer
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:10 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:19 pm

Glare reducing paints are still used on the nose area sometimes - they come in colours other than black now.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Phil Broad
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © s.d.r



PJ
Another Technical Problem?
 
747fan
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:05 am

I've noticed those at SDF on the UPS 747's as well. I've always been wondering what that paint under the cockpit windows was for (I figured it was for glare reduction); this paint is actually brown on the UPS 747's.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguelito



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jonathan Derden - Spot This!

 
Arcrftlvr
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:30 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:17 am

The reason for the black paint beneath the cockpit is to reduce the glare.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:12 am

The black anti-glare paint below the windscreen was part of AC's livery on their entire fleet then, not just the 747. It was elmininated when they updated their livery a few years later with a wider red cheatline that wrapped around the nose, the AC name in red instead of black, slightly larger logo on tail, and a brighter shade of red. On types other than the 747, the area below the windscreen then became red instead of black.

Example of changes on DC-9:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pierre Langlois
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gary C. Orlando



And 747:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Groot
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George Canciani

 
ABQopsHP
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 10:47 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:55 am

Another example:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerhard Plomitzer
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © YK

ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:56 am

Baseball Players do the same with that black stuff under their eyes.
GO CUBS!!
 
pr1268
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:22 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 7):
Baseball Players do the same with that black stuff under their eyes.

Brilliant analogy! However, I'm surprised at the size of the anti-glare black patch below the cockpit windows on the AC 747s. Really quite large...
The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1623
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Pr1268 (Reply 8):
Brilliant analogy! However, I'm surprised at the size of the anti-glare black patch below the cockpit windows on the AC 747s. Really quite large..

Yea but if you look at the DC-9 you can see that it was the livery. They both went from the cockpit right to the nose of the aircraft. Being the 747 it just seems larger due to the dimensions.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
USADreamliner
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:47 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alex McKnight



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jan Ostrowski
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Freight-Dawg - Airside Photography



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Maciek Wolanski
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ross Yeatman



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Yoshiaki Hoshina
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kjell Nilsson

 
steeler83
Posts: 7678
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 10):

Just when I was about to make a comment about Southwest's livery... D'OH!!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
User avatar
Btriple7
Posts: 1207
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:58 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:17 am

Okay, now that we've confirmed it is to reduce the glare from the sun, I have a question.

How come this black "eye-shadow" (for lack of better words) is not seen anymore on modern day airliners? Most airlines these days have white or close to white liveries. Just look at how US Airways, United, and others have changed to lighter-colored liveries. I realize this reduces the costs of cooling the planes, but isn't the glare still a problem? Or is there something in the metal or in the paint of modern airliners that doesn't produce a glare?

Regards,
Btriple7  wave 
Just...fly.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 12):
How come this black "eye-shadow" (for lack of better words) is not seen anymore on modern day airliners? Most airlines these days have white or close to white liveries. Just look at how US Airways, United, and others have changed to lighter-colored liveries. I realize this reduces the costs of cooling the planes, but isn't the glare still a problem? Or is there something in the metal or in the paint of modern airliners that doesn't produce a glare?



Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 2):
Glare reducing paints are still used on the nose area sometimes - they come in colours other than black now.

I think that answers your question...
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1719
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 12):
How come this black "eye-shadow" (for lack of better words) is not seen anymore on modern day airliners? Most airlines these days have white or close to white liveries. Just look at how US Airways, United, and others have changed to lighter-colored liveries. I realize this reduces the costs of cooling the planes, but isn't the glare still a problem? Or is there something in the metal or in the paint of modern airliners that doesn't produce a glare?

See Strathpeffer's response above:

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 2):
Glare reducing paints are still used on the nose area sometimes - they come in colours other than black now.

 Smile
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:28 am

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 456 File size: 69kb
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 443 File size: 96kb
Too bad these didnt become the regular equipment to SLC...
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 415 File size: 76kb
I always thought this was the nicest 733 scheme ever
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 445 File size: 101kb
Absolutely beautiful Classic 747 in South America's best airline and all around beautiful color scheme, Avianca.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 438 File size: 120kb
I regret never having the chance to fly on an AA DC-10...


Heres a few more examples...
 
ardian
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2000 3:15 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:42 am

I must say: it adds a little extra on all of the liveries! It looks pretty with that black paint!
 
Lu
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 2:02 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:11 am

Without absolutely doult, adding black paint is for looking attractive.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting Lu (Reply 17):
Without absolutely doult, adding black paint is for looking attractive.

Agreed. That was always my favorite feature of the DL colors of the 80's/90's...
 
starstream707
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:01 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:43 am

SAM 26000 and SAM 27000 had these as well.
 
nworlnsbearcub
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:59 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:03 pm

In my own opinion, I believe without a doubt, that the classic liveries WITH the black paint look better. The Air Canada livery in particular... damn, that's gorgeous..... I wish some of them would revert to classic schemes!

Michael
Austin, TX
Long after the thrill of low price, lingers the bad taste of low quality..
 
jalapeno
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:39 pm

Here's my example from one of my favorite classics...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jorge Rocafort - AeroImagenes de Mexico



r
 
repaulson
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockp

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:56 pm

Evergreen still has some of the oldest 747s flying. Some of them still in fact have the black paint in front of the cockpit. I think it's pretty cool to see, especially in this day and age of new styles and fancy color schemes. Brings us back a few years.

Nice thread.

Cheers... Ross
 
MCIGuy
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:27 pm

I kinda miss that, it always reminded me of an NFL player on game day.  Silly
Airliners.net Moderator Team
 
USADreamliner
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:03 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Den Pascoe
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerard A Mark



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George W. Hamlin
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dean Straw



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas Millard
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © The Douglas Aircraft Company (Jammy Lee)
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willam W. Sierra



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ian Haskell
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon

 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:25 pm

I like the shat of the ones WS has on their aircraft. It's like a visual effect making the windows look way cooler!

Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
plunaaircanada
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:27 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:39 pm

You learn something new everyday here on a.net lol

puac  flamed 
 
SASDC8
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:01 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:00 pm

This one on the other hand is probably more for cosmetic reasons Big grin


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robin Brulhart

2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:25 am

Now THIS is a nice looking black nose...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier Rodriguez - Iberian Spotters

 
MakeMinesLAX
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:22 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:26 am

don't forget these:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bob Garrard
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence


Size-wise, I think the AC 747 is the largest example, but the one on the AI 747 can't be overlooked:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kjell Nilsson

 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:06 am

I always thought it has something to do with icing detection.
 
todaReisinger
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 4:19 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:51 am

...and the most elegant:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © F. de Ruiter
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M.Oertle

I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
UK_Dispatcher
Posts: 2254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:44 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:19 pm

I agree that in most cases the black under the windows really adds something - kind of in the same way that the eyebrow windows add something to the Boeings. The latest B737s really don't look right without the eyebrows  Sad

Here are a few examples of the former from the UK:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Kipping
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Oates



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Oates
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Marmet

 
[email protected]
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:32 am

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:07 am

Well I'm on the other side of the fence on this one, black paint under the windows looks absolutely hideous! It's like looking at a very tired person with huge dark bags under the eyes.

I particularly hate the old DL livery, simply for the fact that the noses had all that black matt paint. On a very old livery it adds to the current era of liveries, but it still looked ugly, particularly on WestJet, where it's really out of place, when almost all other airlines have moved on.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
 
travatl
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:16 am

Not all.....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Simon Gregory - Jetwash Images




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joey Collura

1 Interview. 24 years. 3 Airlines.
 
User avatar
RedTailDTW
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:08 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 33):
Well I'm on the other side of the fence on this one, black paint under the windows looks absolutely hideous! It's like looking at a very tired person with huge dark bags under the eyes.

I particularly hate the old DL livery, simply for the fact that the noses had all that black matt paint. On a very old livery it adds to the current era of liveries, but it still looked ugly, particularly on WestJet, where it's really out of place, when almost all other airlines have moved on.

I agree. I don't mind a little black paint under the windows but why all they way down the nose?



Mason
Airlines Flown: AA, B6, CO, HP, MQ, NW, RP, UA, US, WN, YX / Aircraft Flown: 737-200/300/700/800, 757-200/300, 777-200, A319/A320/A321, DC-9-30/50, DC-10-40, ERJ 140/145, E170, MD80/83/90
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30050
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Why Did Early 747s Have This In Front Of Cockpit?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:14 pm

Earlier Antiglare paints were not available in muliple colours as in todays times.Remember the Black nosed radomes,although the purposes of the two were different  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos