IAD787
Topic Author
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First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:59 pm

As you all know, Dreamliner One was rolled out of the factory on schedule on July 8, 2007 in Everett, Washington after spending June 26-July 8 in the paint shop across from Building 40-26 where she was assembled. ZA001 returned to 40-26 officially late in the day on July 8 following the cleanup from the Roll-Out ceremony.

Following the return to the factory, LN1 was jacked up again and "a lot of parts have been removed" to make way for systems installations. "A mad dash to first flight is on." There are more than 600 tasks to complete before the first flight. Currently about 40 tasks are being worked.

I have a whole new feature on my site which will track the next few months leading up to first flight. This also features the list of key tests that will have to happen before Dreamliner One flies. Tons of details are at my site.

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/20...7/07/dreamliner-learns-to-fly.html

With tons of exclusive pictures that can be found here:

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/2007/07/up-close-and-personal.html

And here:

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/20...-one-meet-planet-earth-planet.html

Here too:

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/2007/07/pinch-me-im-dreaming.html

Onward,

IAD787

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com

[Edited 2007-07-13 06:07:44]
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:19 pm

great stuff!

the first pic in the second set, section 41, should put to rest that it "looks just like" any other plane. That profile is unique.

any ideas on what the grey carbon fiber looking part is on the leading edge of the vertical stab? It's mostly metal, but there's a matte grey insert, weird shape, about 1/2 way up.

also, you say "lots of parts" are taken off, what kind of stuff? Is the gear back off? The cockpit looked pretty empty in your photos. Did they un-join section 41, for example?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
IAD787
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
also, you say "lots of parts" are taken off, what kind of stuff? Is the gear back off? The cockpit looked pretty empty in your photos. Did they un-join section 41, for example?

Not sure, working on that. If I had to guess, the landing gear doors and radome are amongst those that have been removed.

any ideas on what the grey carbon fiber looking part is on the leading edge of the vertical stab? It's mostly metal, but there's a matte grey insert, weird shape, about 1/2 way up.

De-icing strip? No clue.
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
AirframeAS
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:35 pm

Excellent! The Dreamliner is on its way to becoming a real aircraft! Can't wait for the first flight.

You mention 40 current tasks are being worked. Do you know, in general, what those tasks are? I'm assuming its the removal process but I'm sure I'm incorrect.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
IAD787
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
You mention 40 current tasks are being worked. Do you know, in general, what those tasks are? I'm assuming its the removal process but I'm sure I'm incorrect.

Trying to figure that out too. The update I got was a little vague. Hopefully I'll have more soon.
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
iwok
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 2):
any ideas on what the grey carbon fiber looking part is on the leading edge of the vertical stab? It's mostly metal, but there's a matte grey insert, weird shape, about 1/2 way up.

probably duct tape used in the mad rush to get ready for the roll out, and the shortage of fasteners  Smile

iwok
 
Shenzhen
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 2):
any ideas on what the grey carbon fiber looking part is on the leading edge of the vertical stab? It's mostly metal, but there's a matte grey insert, weird shape, about 1/2 way up.

Most likely the High Frequency Radio Antenna.

Cheers
 
khelmDTW
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
the first pic in the second set, section 41, should put to rest that it "looks just like" any other plane. That profile is unique.

True.

To add to it, who cares if it looks like another plane's profile! What really counts is what is (literally) on the inside, and what its made of (literally).
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration"
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:31 pm

Quoting IAD787 (Thread starter):

Thanks for all the great info.

Here's a question... By my count, the Dreamlifter has visited LIBG 4 times now. All in all, it brought back 44/46 for the first three planes, and the horizontal stab for the roll-out plane. All the big pieces for airplane #2, the static test airframe, are in PAE except the Alenia horizontal stab that we've heard so many horror stories about... what's going on? When is the horizontal stab of the static test airframe supposed to arrive?

Watching for any LCF movements to Italy...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
grey carbon fiber looking part is on the leading edge of the vertical stab

Dunno the answer, but the leading edge is definitely metallic.
 
IAD787
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 8):
Here's a question... By my count, the Dreamlifter has visited LIBG 4 times now. All in all, it brought back 44/46 for the first three planes, and the horizontal stab for the roll-out plane. All the big pieces for airplane #2, the static test airframe, are in PAE except the Alenia horizontal stab that we've heard so many horror stories about... what's going on? When is the horizontal stab of the static test airframe supposed to arrive?

You're dead on here. Everything is hear for the static bird except the tail. I have a running list of things I'm curious about. The horizontal stabilizer is close to the top of the list. I'd keep an eye on flightaware for BOE632 or BOE876. Anyone know what the third LCF flight number is going to be?
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
JAAlbert
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:04 pm

The fuselage appears so smooth -- is this just because the aircraft is brand spanking new or is it because of the composite barrel composition? Even at the nose, rivets are not obvious.
 
IAD787
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 10):
The fuselage appears so smooth -- is this just because the aircraft is brand spanking new or is it because of the composite barrel composition? Even at the nose, rivets are not obvious.

The underside of the aircraft in ridiculously smooth. However, I will fully admit it's the first time I've had any real up-close exposure to a commercial jetliner. She was beautifully polished for the roll out, but the lack of rivets stood out, especially on the nose and vein that runs underneath the wing body fairing.

What amazed me the most is how it actually felt. Aluminum is colder to the touch, composite is warmer. This was a shaded part of the aircraft so it wasn't because of the sun. It just felt different.

Can anyone else there speak to texture?
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
Baron52ta
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:10 am

Just a dumb question, is there any actual purpose for the scalloped back to the reverser rings of the engines or is it just a fashion statement?
 
Glareskin
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 12):
Just a dumb question, is there any actual purpose for the scalloped back to the reverser rings of the engines or is it just a fashion statement?

I think they are called chevrons and should reduce noise levels. But yes, it looks fashionable too!
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
WingsLAX
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:30 am

[quote=Baron52ta,reply=12]is there any actual purpose for the scalloped back to the reverser rings of the engines or is it just a fashion statement?

I remember reading that this new feature reduces noise. I don't know though if the source is accurate.
A/C Flown: A332,333,345,319,320,321,DC6,7,880,707,720,DC8,9,747,742,744,DC10,MD11,L1011,737,772,BAC111,727,747SP,762,763
 
ConjureMe
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 12):
Just a dumb question, is there any actual purpose for the scalloped back to the reverser rings of the engines or is it just a fashion statement?

Definitely not a dumb question! The nacelles on the Trent 1000 are scalloped fro noise reduction. They are actually manufactured by Goodrich corporation down here in the East County of San Diego along with the thrust reversers. According to Boeing, the chevrons more efficiently mix bypass air exiting the engine with the outside air. Instead of the rapid exhaust shearing with the static outside air, It is blended more smoothly, reducing the hissing sound from the engine. Supposedly.
Never let the plane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes ago.
 
ceray
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:42 am

I've been hitting your sight now for months keeping up with the advancement to first flight of the 787. Thanks for all the hard work and love you obviously put into your sight. I check it almost daily and have been amazed at the progress of this quite unique airliner. She is beautiful and watching the culmination of Boeings new mfg techniques and the new composite construction is most interesting. In observing the animations from boeing and then seeing the (completed) product, I observed the nav and anticollision lights. In your photo of the rear aircraft, just behind the horizontal stabilizers and forward of the APU cone, there are small rectangular protrusions. Are these the white anti-collision strobe lights? It would seem an interesting location for them. Also, on the beautiful swept wings the navigation lights are located on the forward sweep of the wing, and from the photos, I don't see any location for the white strobes. Again, thanks for the great sight.
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting ConjureMe (Reply 15):
Instead of the rapid exhaust shearing with the static outside air, It is blended more smoothly, reducing the hissing sound from the engine. Supposedly.

Not supposedly. Verified. Tested extensively on an ANA 77W by Boeing, and now standard design for all new jets, be they Boeing or Airbus (see A350X engines). In theory, the 77W/77L/77F could have them now, but I guess there is some extra certification required?

You may also see them employed in some sort of "hushkitting" for older engines when airframes get converted to cargo.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
birdy
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:38 am

So basically 787 feels and looks different, it is a new piece of technology, new materials and probably because of that new experience of flying  Smile It will be also probably great pleasure to be on board... I Can’t wait  Smile



Greg
"The nicer an airplane looks, the better it flies"...
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Birdy (Reply 18):
It will be also probably great pleasure to be on board...

Except for airlines that give you a 17.2" seat at 31" pitch. But that's the airline's fault...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:17 am

Ahhh...the unmistakable profile of the 787....great photos and updates IAD787...  cloudnine 
One Nation Under God
 
IAD787
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Ceray (Reply 16):
Are these the white anti-collision strobe lights?

Yep, just like on the 777.

You can see them here:

https://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1203298

https://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1197289

https://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1194688

They are at the top and and bottom of the APU exhaust port.
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
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glideslope
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:57 am

Great shots as always. Thanks for all the effort! To me, the wing airfoil looks very interesting. Something tells me this bird is going to be in front of the curve on expectations.  checkmark 
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
DavidT
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 10):
The fuselage appears so smooth -- is this just because the aircraft is brand spanking new or is it because of the composite barrel composition? Even at the nose, rivets are not obvious.

I spoke to somebody who has been inside the Dreamliner - apparently there isn't a straight edge in sight!
 
aminobwana
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:49 am

Would it not be nice to get even a fraction of such kind of info regarding the A380 MSN 3 for Singapore ??

aminobwana
 
Baron52ta
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:31 am

Ikramerica ,ConjureMe,Glareskin,WingsLax
Thanks guys for your replies about the engines great help
david  Smile
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:26 am

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 21):
Yep, just like on the 777.

The 777 also has the grey strip on the vert stab leading edge, as seen on all three of the photos linked. So I doubt it's duct tape...  Wink

Must be the antenna array someone else mentioned.

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 25):
Thanks guys for your replies about the engines great help

No problem.

IIRC, the chevrons did slightly impact fuel efficiency, but with varying requirements placed on new jets (sound impact, fuel efficiency, pollution) i guess the positives outweighed the negatives.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Glareskin
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
IIRC, the chevrons did slightly impact fuel efficiency, but with varying requirements placed on new jets (sound impact, fuel efficiency, pollution) i guess the positives outweighed the negatives.

That is correct. It is impacting the fuel efficiency. Some companies are studying variabel chevrons because noise reduction only makes sense during take off and landing.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 27):
Some companies are studying variabel chevrons because noise reduction only makes sense during take off and landing.

maybe some kind of sliding gates similar to how thrust reversers slide. After all, the drag they might create for takeoff can't be too damaging to overall efficiency, and the drag they would create for landing would be beneficial.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
maybe some kind of sliding gates similar to how thrust reversers slide. After all, the drag they might create for takeoff can't be too damaging to overall efficiency, and the drag they would create for landing would be beneficial.

Ah, but the weight! I love just how intricately coupled airliner design turns out to be... everything is a multi-dimensional tradeoff, often with no obvious answer, which is why it's so much fun to debate airliner design issues from the comfort of our armchairs. (speaking for myself)  Smile
 
NAV20
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 11):
the lack of rivets stood out, especially on the nose and vein that runs underneath the wing body fairing.

Or rather DIDN'T stand out, IAD787?  Smile Thanks again for all the hard work and info.!

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
To me, the wing airfoil looks very interesting. Something tells me this bird is going to be in front of the curve on expectations.

Couldn't agree more, the 787 shows every sign of being very 'special' indeed - good photograph and article on the wing here:-

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/117878.asp
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
MD-90
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 11):
What amazed me the most is how it actually felt. Aluminum is colder to the touch, composite is warmer. This was a shaded part of the aircraft so it wasn't because of the sun. It just felt different.

It does feel different. Aluminum is a superb conductor of heat. Carbon fiber isn't.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting ConjureMe (Reply 15):
Instead of the rapid exhaust shearing with the static outside air, It is blended more smoothly, reducing the hissing sound from the engine. Supposedly.

Interesting, since the actual hot exhaust is only in the very center of the engine output disk, surrounded by a large area of normal temperature bypass air. Why the chevrons are not between the exhaust and bypass, who knows (probably because their mostly cosmetic).
 
IAD787
Topic Author
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
also, you say "lots of parts" are taken off, what kind of stuff? Is the gear back off? The cockpit looked pretty empty in your photos. Did they un-join section 41, for example?

A little more context:

July 13, 2007
Further information has expanded on previously known details: The engines, vertical fin, wing leading edge slats, movable trailing edges, horizontal tail leading edge, elevators, passenger doors No.3 and 4 in aft. fuselage, wing to body faring, and landing gear doors have all been removed as structural work system installation continues on the way towards preparing for first flight.

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 32):
Interesting, since the actual hot exhaust is only in the very center of the engine output disk, surrounded by a large area of normal temperature bypass air. Why the chevrons are not between the exhaust and bypass, who knows (probably because their mostly cosmetic).

They are not cosmetic, and they did test the chevrons at the nozzle outlet, but it seems to be determined that the shearing noise comes more from the bypass where the temps are the same the nozzle where they are different temps.

See this article where they tested the concept (at great expense) on the ANA 77W. Notice how this engine DOES have chevrons at the nozzle.

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers...archive/2005/december/ts_sf07.html
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
trex8
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
Not supposedly. Verified. Tested extensively on an ANA 77W by Boeing, and now standard design for all new jets, be they Boeing or Airbus (see A350X engines). In theory, the 77W/77L/77F could have them now, but I guess there is some extra certification required?

I thought Airbus rejected the scalloped design for the A350 nacelle as there is a fuel burn penalty?
 
md80fanatic
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 34):
See this article where they tested the concept (at great expense) on the ANA 77W. Notice how this engine DOES have chevrons at the nozzle.

It's interesting how the nacelle chevron depth reduces to almost zero opposite the pylon. I wonder if the noise you are referring to originates from the interference of the pylon with the bypass air? Thanks for that link....it seems logical that allowing the hot and ambient temp gases to mix gradually at the nozzle (via the chevrons) would be more functional than the 787 equivalent.
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 33):
The engines, vertical fin, wing leading edge slats, movable trailing edges, horizontal tail leading edge

This makes sense, because these were attached at breakneck speed the final few days before painting. I was surprised at how quickly they stuck all those parts on, but now we know they were using snot and chewing gum to do it...  Smile

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 35):
I thought Airbus rejected the scalloped design for the A350 nacelle as there is a fuel burn penalty?

It's been on various A350 renderings. I have no idea what their final design will be. Do you?  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
trex8
Posts: 5383
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 37):
It's been on various A350 renderings. I have no idea what their final design will be. Do you?  

whatever EK and ILFC want obviously !! Smile
 
Glareskin
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 34):
See this article where they tested the concept (at great expense) on the ANA 77W. Notice how this engine DOES have chevrons at the nozzle.

Thanks for this link. A very interesting article! Funny thing is that they will use it to reduce sound insulation on the 787 but at the same time tested a variable geometry. Maybe they want to optimize the noise reduction on take-off and landing for the outside and during flight for the passengers. As for the landing gear noise I never understood why they release the landing gear so early. What would be the problem of releasing it one minute before touch-down? In case of a malfunction there is still time for a go around.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
NAV20
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:38 pm

Glareskin, the whole principle of flying is to carry out as much preparation as you can in good time, so that you can identify any problems early on. The gear takes quite a long time to cycle down and lock. More important, the drag imparted by the gear is factored into the process of reducing speed before starting the landing approach; if they left it up, they'd end up approaching much too fast.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
ikramerica
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RE: First Post Roll Out 787 Assembly Update (pics)

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:15 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 39):
Funny thing is that they will use it to reduce sound insulation on the 787 but at the same time tested a variable geometry. Maybe they want to optimize the noise reduction on take-off and landing for the outside and during flight for the passengers.

I noticed that too. Obviously they found that the penalty of the chevrons on the nacel for the bypass air was lower than the benefit of removing all that insulation weight.

It also seems likely that it was this ability to remove noise insulation from the 787...

that allowed the 787 interior walls to be thinner than first designed...

thus allowing the cabin cross section to be 2" wider...

thus allowing 9Y seating at 17.2"...

thus increasing sales and practicality of the aircraft dramatically...

leading Airbus to have to redesign the A350 to compete!

Amazing how something like chevrons on an engine nacel to reduce noise could have such massive unintended consequences for the aviation world.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.

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